Not Rotel Related But I have to Ask...

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  • Adz
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2004
    • 549

    Not Rotel Related But I have to Ask...

    I'd like one freebie to ask a non-Rotel question since the other relevant sites don't seem to have a lot going on.

    My Home Theatre TV is a 61 inch Sony Rear Projection which is about 5 years old. I got my wife to agree to me moving it to our bedroom and I'd like to get a 16:9 set for my home theatre room. So I throw this out to anyone - lets say you had a budget of USD 6-7,000 what would you want? Here are the parameters: Front projection won't work for many reasons, and size matters - the bigger the better (doesn't it always). So, there's rear projection, LCD, LCD rear projection, LcoS, DLP, cheap plasma, etc.

    Thanks,




    Adz
    Adz
  • aud19
    Twin Moderator Emeritus
    • Aug 2003
    • 16706

    #2
    Welcome to HTGuide Adam

    While this post will be moved, most likely to the RPTV area, I'll still offer some advice... See this thread: http://www.htguide.com/CFBoards/inde...artRow=1&CFB=1
    for my thoughts on the subject. About 4-5 posts in you'll see the beginnings of my thoughts on the various technologies.

    Jason




    Need a new display? Questions about new display technologies? Visit RPTVs, plasmas, and other monitors @ HTguide
    Jason

    Comment

    • skipm
      Senior Member
      • Jun 2003
      • 198

      #3
      Adz-

      Welcome to the club. I believe a 50" plasma would do quite well.

      -Skip

      Comment

      • Andrew Pratt
        Moderator Emeritus
        • Aug 2000
        • 16507

        #4
        I'd like one freebie to ask a non-Rotel question since the other relevant sites don't seem to have a lot going on
        And there won't ever be if people don't post there




        Comment

        • mazuly
          Senior Member
          • Feb 2003
          • 238

          #5
          My vote goes for 50”, 56” or 61” Samsung DLP set. New generations sets with HD2+ DLP engines are going to be out soon and from what I hear, they should have excellent PQ. I own a Samsung HLN5065 (50") and I am extremely happy with it.

          You can get some more information on this new line of DLP sets from Samsung and others here .

          Thanks,
          Maziar

          Comment

          • aud19
            Twin Moderator Emeritus
            • Aug 2003
            • 16706

            #6
            Originally posted by skipm
            Adz-

            Welcome to the club. I believe a 50" plasma would do quite well.

            -Skip
            eeeew....I cringe at plasmas :bluezoned: (overpriced pieces of..) ahem... of course that just IMO (Sorry Skip ) But seriously, again IMO, DLP and LCOS do all the good things plasma's do (except for hanging on the wall and even that isn't as easy as most people assume anyway) with less of it's drawbacks. Unless you absolutely have to put a screen above a fireplace or similar situation there are just better options. Including a damn nice CRT based set, which calibrated, will look as good or better than any of those options at like half the price if you've got the space. If you go CRT I recommend Hitachi or Mitsubishi. Otherwise my votes is for Samsumg DLP or Toshiba LCOS.

            Jason




            Need a new display? Questions about new display technologies? Visit RPTVs, plasmas, and other monitors @ HTguide
            Jason

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            • aud19
              Twin Moderator Emeritus
              • Aug 2003
              • 16706

              #7
              Also you should be able to get either say a Hitachi 65", "T" or "S" 500 (Hitachi RPTV's)for less than half your budget, get it calibrated AND purchase a decent video scaler from DVDO , DWIN, Faroudja or Runco etc...

              Jason




              Need a new display? Questions about new display technologies? Visit RPTVs, plasmas, and other monitors @ HTguide
              Jason

              Comment

              • Bam!
                Super Senior Member
                • Jan 2004
                • 2458

                #8
                Hey guys!

                I have to say that before joining this forum I always felt like a retard because I liked Hitachi`s colors...I find the Sony are very red...not that that is bad since full calibration can make them scream but for the money Hitachi rules. I have an analog 60`` fully calibrated and I made my dad buy the Utlravision Digital 52`` it is wired with a set of 400.00$ RGB cables (should have been Cat`s from what I hear) and calibrated..I gotta say the picture is freakin fantastik.

                My other choice for CRT`s would Panasonic or Toshiba

                Anyway that`s just my opinion

                Take care!




                Bam!
                Got a nice rack to show me ?

                Comment

                • Adz
                  Senior Member
                  • Jan 2004
                  • 549

                  #9
                  Thanks everyone. Your reccomendtions seem pretty much in line with what I've been hearing. I guess its narrowed down to Hitachi's 65 inch director series or Samsung's DLP. Have you heard good things about RCA Scenium brand DLP? I have, so that is a consideration as well. What I found interesting was the site that discussed the future TI DLP enhancements and the new Samsung model. At the very bottom they talk about a 73 inch HD3 Samsung DLP - that sounds worth waiting for if it comes out this year - how can I find out? Maybe call Samsung or TI direct? The one drawback I heard about with DLP is the contrast and the blacks which makes the CRT better, but it seems they are correcting this.

                  Also, if I go with the Hitachi, I assume you mentioned the scaler to override Hitach's built in line doubler on the theory that one of those other brands will do a much better job since the one that is built into the TVs usually aren't very good?




                  Adz
                  Adz

                  Comment

                  • aud19
                    Twin Moderator Emeritus
                    • Aug 2003
                    • 16706

                    #10
                    It seems that any chip based sets, (that includes DLP) have less than ideal black levels, though the situation is improving as time goes by, on all technologies. Like you mentioned they do have very good contrast levels and light output though... so it kind of depends on your needs and the light control you have over your room. Are you willing to give up a little black level for better resolution, better light output and a smaller footprint? Do you have a bright room where this might actually be an advantage? CRT is still the only technology that gives you true deep blacks... you just need to decide which factors are most important for you and will work best in your space.

                    Hitachi's internal scaler is actually pretty good. However, a good quality outboard scaler will easily outperform it and will arguably make all your sources look as good or better than any chip based monitor using it's internal scaler. However a scaler and a DLP set will likely look even better (resolution-wise) but would be more expensive and still have black level difficulties that may or may not be an issue for you. If you do go CRT, remember, in general, a larger gun will give you better resolutions and performance.

                    Jason




                    Need a new display? Questions about new display technologies? Visit RPTVs, plasmas, and other monitors @ HTguide
                    Jason

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                    • mazuly
                      Senior Member
                      • Feb 2003
                      • 238

                      #11
                      Hi,

                      Just a note on the HD2+ vs. HD3 chips from TI. HD2+ is a better chip than the HD3. It has the latest technology from TI and should be using the new color wheel with added dark green segment which should improve black level as well as dithering which is present on DLP sets today. Now the xHD3 chips are another story.

                      Regarding RCA sets, I did not like them when I was shopping for my TV. The screen used on this TVs are very reflective, and I have heard the DVI input changes the digital signal to analog to do the processing on and then it is change back to digital to be fed to the DLP chip which just does not make sense. I also found that Samsung picture to be sharper and more vibrant than RCA.

                      Aud19 is right regarding the black level, but I like to point out that DLP sets are not that far away from CRT sets when it comes to black level and I find them to be a lot better than RPTVs with LCD technology. The new sets with HD2+ chips should be even closer.

                      Thanks,
                      Maziar

                      Comment

                      • Adz
                        Senior Member
                        • Jan 2004
                        • 549

                        #12
                        I'm not sure why HD3 would not have at least the same technology as HD2+ and I would have thought it would have been an upgrade. Anyway, is the xHD3 better than HD2+? You seem to imply but thought I'd ask. I called DLP yesterday and they are going to get back to me with the expected release date of the xHD3 chip but they said the R&D and production labs keep a tight lip on this stuff and it likely would not come out in TV sets until the end of the year.

                        Also, can someone explain to me what black levels exactly means and it compares to the other video features? Thanks all.




                        Adz
                        Adz

                        Comment

                        • Adz
                          Senior Member
                          • Jan 2004
                          • 549

                          #13
                          Can you elaborate a bit on the scaler. Lets say I wanted to sepnd up to $3,000 on a scaler, what should I be looking at and is it worth it?

                          I think the traditional RPTV like the Hitachi will not work for me because my wife is sick of those huge bulky sets and I promised her that if we purchased another set it would be something more chic. For instance, that future line of Samsung DLPs that rests on a pedastool or whatever they call it is pretty cool lookin'.
                          Thanks




                          Adz
                          Adz

                          Comment

                          • aud19
                            Twin Moderator Emeritus
                            • Aug 2003
                            • 16706

                            #14
                            You're right Mazuly I probably could have been more clear. DLP's do tend to be one of the best at black levels as far as chip based displays go. Not to mention having more "video friendly" resolutions like 1280x720 where as a lot of LCD based displays have computer based resolutions (like Andrew's 964x544 projector). As time goes by DLP and LCOS etc will just get better and come down in price and eventually take over IMO.

                            ADz, black level is basically a term for how deep of black a TV can display. Chip based display tend to have black levels that only go down to dark gray but have higher output levels meaning they can show very bright whites. As such they usually have a higher contrast ratio compared to CRT's because of that high output even though they don't produce true, inky, deep blacks. As Mazuly mentioned DLP is one of the better chips at producing low black levels and each generation of chips seems to do it better, though CRT is still king. If you have a fairly bright room the higher contrast ratio will likley be more benneficial than deep blacks as the display has to compete with ambient light.

                            I'm by no means a scaler expert but I would think one of the things that would be most important after how well the scaler performs would be.. Does it have enough inputs and outputs for all your gear and in the formats you want? (DVI, Firewire, Component, S-video etc) Other than that I'd look around on here for info and maybe start another thread asking specific questions about scalers. I know I've heard mention of auto-sensing inputs etc. Definately something you'd need to do some homework on though

                            Sounds like one of Samsung's DLP display is just what the wife ordered.

                            Jason




                            Need a new display? Questions about new display technologies? Visit RPTVs, plasmas, and other monitors @ HTguide
                            Jason

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                            • mazuly
                              Senior Member
                              • Feb 2003
                              • 238

                              #15
                              Hi

                              HD3 chip is basically the same as HD2 chip, but smaller and easier to manufacture and therefore chipper. It has addressed some of the issues of HD2 chips and it can also incorporate the new 7 segment color wheel which can help black level and dithering issues. HD2+ chip is the best commercially available chip from TI and it can produce even better contrast, black level and less dithering. All above chips can produce a 720p HD picture. Now the xHD3 is the upcoming chip from TI which can produce a 1080p HD picture and should be able to produce even better black levels. I personally think that you will not see this chip in RPTVs for a while and you would find it only in high grade projectors. I think it is still too expensive to be used in RPTVs.

                              Just to add a little more to what Aud19 said, the easiest way to check black level is to watch a dark movie say Matrix. RPTVs with bad black level would lose the details in the shadows, for example looking at a scene that has sunlight and shadows at the same time, in the shadow part, you will not see any details and see only a black hole, were as on CRT based RPTVs you will see more details in that shadow. An actors black suite might become this black shape without actually seeing the details of the fabric. This is very evident on LCD sets but a lot better on DLP sets. I personally have not watched a movie that I was bothered by the lack of black level and have been very happy with my set.

                              Finally on the scallers, I personally don’t think that you would need them. The new generations of TV have very good scallers. You would get a better performance from an external scaller, but for me it is not a night and day difference unless you pay a lot of money. I would spend the money on a good DVD player with DVI/HDMI (new upcoming Samsung player, or more expensive Pioneer and Denon, players) output specially if you are thinking of a Samsung DLP set. Samsung DLP sets really shine when feed a digital signal via DVI. By the way, Samsung uses DCDi from Faroudja which does an excellent scaling and 3:2 pulldown job.

                              Before buying a DLP set, make sure that you spend sometime at the shop looking at one. Some people have problem with DLP sets and can see rainbows, get headaches, and even get motion sickness. That is due to the use of a color wheel in these sets even though they have mostly cured these problems. Just go to a shop and sit and watch a movie for at least half an hour or more, and make sure you take your wife with you. You don’t want her to be sick every time you want to watch a movie together .

                              You can get a lot of information on this thread in another forum on Samsung TVs. It is a very long read though.

                              Thanks,
                              Maziar

                              Comment

                              • aud19
                                Twin Moderator Emeritus
                                • Aug 2003
                                • 16706

                                #16
                                Now if I could just win the lotto I'd wait for a FP with three xhd3 chips and no colour wheels :P :P :P

                                Jason




                                Need a new display? Questions about new display technologies? Visit RPTVs, plasmas, and other monitors @ HTguide
                                Jason

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                                • aud19
                                  Twin Moderator Emeritus
                                  • Aug 2003
                                  • 16706

                                  #17
                                  I would spend the money on a good DVD player with DVI/HDMI (new upcoming Samsung player, or more expensive Pioneer and Denon, players) output specially if you are thinking of a Samsung DLP set. Samsung DLP sets really shine when feed a digital signal via DVI
                                  Another good route to go might be a good HTPC with DVI out. My bro sets this up for a living and has a Sammy DLP connected to his and all I can say is WOW :P

                                  Jason




                                  Need a new display? Questions about new display technologies? Visit RPTVs, plasmas, and other monitors @ HTguide
                                  Jason

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                                  • mazuly
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Feb 2003
                                    • 238

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by aud19
                                    Now if I could just win the lotto I'd wait for a FP with three xhd3 chips and no colour wheels :P :P :P

                                    Jason
                                    They are already selling them. They may be A LITTLE EXPENSIVE at over USD $100,000.00 (yes that is a comma)

                                    Maziar

                                    Comment

                                    • aud19
                                      Twin Moderator Emeritus
                                      • Aug 2003
                                      • 16706

                                      #19
                                      Are there some out now with the xHD3 chips though? I know there were some a while back with the older chips... not that I have a hope in hell of actually affording one.... 8O

                                      Jason




                                      Need a new display? Questions about new display technologies? Visit RPTVs, plasmas, and other monitors @ HTguide
                                      Jason

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                                      • mazuly
                                        Senior Member
                                        • Feb 2003
                                        • 238

                                        #20
                                        Actually I am not sure if they are xHD3 chips, but they are 1080p and have no color wheel. I thought somebody introduced one at CES.

                                        Here we go, found one. It is actually USD $38,000 from Marantz (I have a feeling it is 720p thought). See here (at the bottom) . I did not look at other pages on this site. There may be more there.

                                        Thanks,
                                        Maziar

                                        Comment

                                        • Adz
                                          Senior Member
                                          • Jan 2004
                                          • 549

                                          #21
                                          Thanks for all the advice and info. If I get a DVI TV set, and then get a DVD player such as the Denon 5900, I guess I would have to connect the Denon DVI video connection directly to the TV set. What does that mean for my RSP 1098? Right now, I have my Denon 3800 component video cables running through my 1098 and then the 1098 is connected to the TV component video. I guess you are saying I'll get much better picture quality going direct using a DVI? Please elaborate.

                                          One other thing - last night I stopped by Circuit City to look at the Samsung DLP sets. I asked the person there if he could have any set on display what would he want and he said without hesitation the Hitachi LCD RPTV. We have discussed the Hitachi above, but it was always with respect to the regular RPTV, not the LCD version. What do you think? It's not as bulky so my wife might not freak out.




                                          Adz
                                          Adz

                                          Comment

                                          • mazuly
                                            Senior Member
                                            • Feb 2003
                                            • 238

                                            #22
                                            Well to start with, most (almost all) HDTV sets come with DVI or HDMI input on them. Both of these connections are digital. HDMI can also pass digital audio (up to 8 channels I think) as well as digital video.

                                            DVI or HDMI connections would produce a better picture in digital sets such as DLP and LCD due to the fact that the data read from the DVD is kept in digital domain and not turned to analog. Without DVI/HDMI connection the DVD player reads the data in digital, change it to analog, send it to DLP set over component connection, which is then changed back to digital by the TV. Therefore you may degrade the signal with all these conversions and it would be better to keep the signal in digital domain from start to the end. This is different for CRT sets, since they work in analog domain and therefore digital video over DVI connection is changed to analog by the TV.

                                            To answer you question regarding 1098 component connection, it is generally believed that it is better to send the signal from DVD players and/or STBs directly to the TV set, bypassing the pre-pro and/or receivers. It is said that the signal would have less noise and the PQ is better. I do not agree with this, since the new line of pre-pros and receivers are very good in video switching without degrading the signal. Finally, 1098 does not have a DVI/HDMI input-output and therefore you have to connect directly to the TV set bypassing 1098. Mind you not a lot of pre-pros and/or receivers offer this connection but it is getting more popular. Maybe Rotel would offer us an upgrade board for this in the future (wishful thinking )

                                            Regarding the Hitachi LCD set, I was ready to buy that TV and then I saw the lack of black level. It is not even close to my Sammy in terms of black level and shadow details. Don’t get me wrong, this TV has a wonderful PQ but I personally could not live with its lack of proper black level. On show floors they usually show very bright colorful programs on these TVs because these pictures just jump at you with their vivid colors and amazing brightness. Try watching something dark like Matrix and see if you can see any difference between the Hitachi LCD and Sammy DLP. Also the new Sammy line coming out soon, should be even better than what you see at the shops. Now if you can live with low black level of the Hitachi LCD set, IMO, the Hitachi LCD sets have the best PQ in RPTVs using LCD technology and I prefer them over Sonys.

                                            Thanks,
                                            Maziar

                                            Comment

                                            • Adz
                                              Senior Member
                                              • Jan 2004
                                              • 549

                                              #23
                                              Thanks again. That really sucks about the 1098. Youy pay a lot of money for a great pre/pro like the Rotel and it doesn't have DVI, it doesn't have DPLIIx (which is completely ridiculous since receivers that came out around the same time or earlier do) AND they are coming out with the 1068 which has the same upgraded video chip and audio as the 1098 for something like USD 1,400 less. What the hell were they thinking -- we'd pay $1,400 for a video screen that in my view seems very limited in what it can do?? Just blowing off a little steam.




                                              Adz
                                              Adz

                                              Comment

                                              • Adz
                                                Senior Member
                                                • Jan 2004
                                                • 549

                                                #24
                                                Thanks again. That really sucks about the 1098. Youy pay a lot of money for a great pre/pro like the Rotel and it doesn't have DVI, it doesn't have DPLIIx (which is completely ridiculous since receivers that came out around the same time or earlier do) AND they are coming out with the 1068 which has the same upgraded video chip and audio as the 1098 for something like USD 1,400 less. What the hell were they thinking -- we'd pay $1,400 for a video screen that in my view seems very limited in what it can do?? Just blowing off a little steam.

                                                Getting back to TVs. What Sam do you have? And so you are saying that the black levels in this DLP is better than the LCD RPTV (at least the Hitachi). I thought the thing going for the RPTV was its black level and that that was a downside on the DLP. Why the discrepancy?




                                                Adz
                                                Adz

                                                Comment

                                                • aud19
                                                  Twin Moderator Emeritus
                                                  • Aug 2003
                                                  • 16706

                                                  #25
                                                  I've got to say as nice as the picture of that Hitachi LCD probably is mazuly's probably right about the black level. LCD is the oldest chip based technology and it's on it's last legs IMO. It would be a bit like buying a new car with a carburator... Stores do tend to have bright lighting and bright pictures displayed on the TV's which does make it very difficult to judge black level.
                                                  And so you are saying that the black levels in this DLP is better than the LCD RPTV (at least the Hitachi). I thought the thing going for the RPTV was its black level and that that was a downside on the DLP. Why the discrepancy?
                                                  No discrepancy...when we said RPTV's have better black levels we were speaking of CRT based RPTV's. They have better black levels than any existing chip based display. As for chip based displays DLP seems to be the best for black levels.

                                                  As for DVI and HDMI... While they may offer slight improvement in picture quality, especially with chip based sets, personally I think they're more about content protection than picture quality. How many people have one DVI source let alone two or more that would actually require the switching capabilities of a processor? Not too damn many I assure you. I wouldn't worry about that for now. Besides if Rotel added DVI switching in a couple years that would be obsolete and all it would have done was add cost to the machine for a function that VERY few people could/would use.

                                                  Jason




                                                  Need a new display? Questions about new display technologies? Visit RPTVs, plasmas, and other monitors @ HTguide
                                                  Jason

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                                                  • aud19
                                                    Twin Moderator Emeritus
                                                    • Aug 2003
                                                    • 16706

                                                    #26
                                                    Oh and regarding the DPLIIx check out Geoff's post (4th post in the thread) here: http://www.htguide.com/CFBoards/inde...artRow=1&CFB=1

                                                    Jason




                                                    Need a new display? Questions about new display technologies? Visit RPTVs, plasmas, and other monitors @ HTguide
                                                    Jason

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                                                    • Adz
                                                      Senior Member
                                                      • Jan 2004
                                                      • 549

                                                      #27
                                                      Okay guys so the bottomline appears to be wait for the next generation DLP chip and then jump on the Samsung most likely. Hopefully, that 73 inch Pedastool reference I saw on that website you guys mentioned will turn out to be a nice '04 Christmas present to myself. Then I'll also look at getting a DVD with DVI and connect it directly although you seem to think that's not a big improvement (maybe spend the money on a scaler instead if I have anything left)? Any last thoughts? This was a great discussion.




                                                      Adz
                                                      Adz

                                                      Comment

                                                      • aud19
                                                        Twin Moderator Emeritus
                                                        • Aug 2003
                                                        • 16706

                                                        #28
                                                        Well if you want the TV sooner than later, get it. There's always a better next generation product around the corner. If you keep waiting for the next best thing you'll never get a TV, or anything else for that matter! If the new model happens to fall near the time frame of when you plan on purchasing well that's great but there's nothing wrong with the current generation and you may be able to get a good deal on one if it's near the end of it's product cycle... Either way you'll have one damn fine TV :P

                                                        I'm not saying DVI won't be an improvement, it's just not night and day but the less D/A-A/D conversions the better. It won't be like going from a NTSC to HD signal but there should be an improvement and you're likely to see more of a difference on a DLP than you would with say a CRT based set.

                                                        As for the scaler it depends on your equipment and uses. I might be tempted to custom make a nice HTPC with DVI output which you could use as a scaler, gaming system, DVD player, DVR and PC for web surfing and computing There's a couple threads in the Tower of Power section you may want to check out regarding this.

                                                        Jason




                                                        Need a new display? Questions about new display technologies? Visit RPTVs, plasmas, and other monitors @ HTguide
                                                        Jason

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                                                        • mazuly
                                                          Senior Member
                                                          • Feb 2003
                                                          • 238

                                                          #29
                                                          Well said Aud19.

                                                          Just to put your mind at ease regarding RSP-1098, you have purchased one of the best pre-pros out there for what you have paid. There is no way that RSP-1068 would sound the same as your pre-pro, since the components used in RSP-1098 are very different and you did not pay USD $1400 just for the TFT screen . You may get the same setup convenience but not the same sound. Not including DVI/HDMI should not be that important at this time as Aud19 mentioned.

                                                          As for your question, I own a Samsung HLN5065 which is the 50” DLP set. For pictures see my gallery.

                                                          As for RPTV, RPTV stands for rear projection TVs. That is, a light source is projected inside a cabinet to a mirror which reflects it to the TV screen. At this time, there the following technologies used for RPTVs:

                                                          CRT base which uses three CRT guns (think of very small regular TV) in red, blue and green to produce the picture using lenses and the mirror
                                                          DLP sets which use DLP chip with the light engine to produce the picture
                                                          LCD which uses an LCD panels (three with red, blue and green light passing through them) with the light engine to produce the picture
                                                          LiCOS (sp) which is similar to LCD with a light engine, but I am not sure how this one works. Should be similar to LCD, but some use color wheel as well

                                                          Light engines are generally comprised of a light source and lenses to magnify the picture.

                                                          Finally, from what I have read in other threads, DVI/HDMI connections do make a significant improvement on PQ, but one has to remember that people writing this sometime exaggerate things and all these kinda comments should be taken with a grain of salt. What might be a good PQ to you might not be a good one to me. I can not comment on the PQ of my Sammy with DVI/HDMI connection, since I do not own a DVD player or a STB with these connections.

                                                          Thanks,
                                                          Maziar

                                                          Comment

                                                          • Adz
                                                            Senior Member
                                                            • Jan 2004
                                                            • 549

                                                            #30
                                                            Thanks - I know the 1098 is awesome. My problem with Rotel is that they are not open about thier future products. I noticed the 1068 has crystal semiconductor chip while the 1098 is Cirrus Logic which I assume is much better. Is that right? Any other major software/hardware differences?

                                                            On the TV front, I can definitely wait a year or so for the xHD3 chip. I do have a pretty decent RPTV - the Sony 61 inch XBR300. It's about 4-5 years old but it is HDTV ready and I am using its component video connection. It's just so massive and its not 16:9, but again the 61 inch size does give a pretty big 16:9 dimension.

                                                            Finally, I came across this short article from Popular Science magazine. They prefer LcoS over DLP. And they dislike LCD RPTV which is right in line with the views on this thread. From what I've gathered, it appears the manufacturers are going away from LcoS and towards DLP most notably Toshiba, so go figure. Let me know what you all think.

                                                            Awe-inspiring science reporting, technology news, and DIY projects. Skunks to space robots, primates to climates. That's Popular Science, 145 years strong.





                                                            Adz
                                                            Adz

                                                            Comment

                                                            • Shane Martin
                                                              Super Senior Member
                                                              • Apr 2001
                                                              • 2852

                                                              #31
                                                              After doing ALOT of research this is what I've come to decide on:

                                                              While CRT's produce a great picture I think their time has come to the end. Recently Guy Kuo of Avia fame compared the latest HD2+ FPTV's vs a CRT setup he uses now. He stated that if his CRT ever breaks down again, he willl replace it with the HD2+ FPTV and because while the HD2+ sets are slightly worse when it comes to black level, every other area it excels and is the clear winner. When he says that, that says alot to me.

                                                              So after looking to find a set that fits my parameters, I've came to decide on the 2004 Model Samsung DLP's with the HD2+ chip. They are due out in May or thereabouts. This should easily tide me over until 1080p becomes the norm. If you are after a 2003 model and can live with the HD2 chip, then amazon.com has outstanding pricing. They are the lowest I've seen and I hope they are the lowest when it comes down to me buying an HD2+ set. For instance the 61" DLP is $3700. 8O

                                                              The only other x-factor to consider is JVC is coming out with a D-ILA RPTV line.

                                                              Comment

                                                              • Adz
                                                                Senior Member
                                                                • Jan 2004
                                                                • 549

                                                                #32
                                                                Of al things, I came across Toshiba's 42HP83 Plasma in BestBuy. It was next to the Pioneer 50 inch (not the ELite) and the Toshiba simply blew it and the others around it away in picture quality - it was incredibly 3D like -best I've seen I have to say. It was hooked up to the same feed and I was told were put in display at roughly the same time. For me, its too small and Toshiba doesn't make a bigger one (which frankly may not be as good as this one anyway in a bigger size). I wasn't looking for a Plasma as you all know given the price and all. But I do have one question as well -- the sales people in places like Circuit City, Bestbuy and even the dealer where I bought my audio equipment continue to assert pretty consistently that Plasma hands down has the best clarity, detail, PQ, etc. than DLP, Rear Projection, LCD, etc. Is that true or are they just trying to sell me a more expensive product? I know Plasma has its own set of unique problems but if money were no object and excluding a front projector, is Plasma the way to go?




                                                                Adz
                                                                Adz

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                                                                • aud19
                                                                  Twin Moderator Emeritus
                                                                  • Aug 2003
                                                                  • 16706

                                                                  #33
                                                                  IMO...They're just trying to sell you a more expensive product. I know of no plasma with a higher resolution than the 1280x720p of DLP and certainly none with LCOS's 1920x1080p. Most that I'm aware of have somewhere around 1024x768 (which is a computer based resolution and requires more scaling than 1280x720 or 1920x1080). At best they'd have the same resolution, no better. If there are any plasma's with higher than 1280x720 I can only guess they're priced above $20,000. Trust me a properly set up DLP or LCOS will look as good or better as a plasma. A properly set up plasma might look at best as good as a DLP or LCOS set.

                                                                  Not to mention, like you said, plasma's other problems. The risk of burn in, the "ghosting" of images in fast moving scenes due to plasma's slower pixel refresh time, generally poorer black level etc. They do likely offer a bit brighter picture but LCOS and DLP are plenty bright as it is.

                                                                  So they do have good clarity/detail (resolution) but it's at best as good as DLP or LCOS and IMO they're better in this regard. PQ..well that's subjective my good PQ might not be yours. IMO other than a brighter picture and it's smaller depth plasma really has no advantages. If DLP and LCOS were'nt already pretty bright themselves this might be a bigger selling feature, but again IMO, it's not.

                                                                  Jason




                                                                  Need a new display? Questions about new display technologies? Visit RPTVs, plasmas, and other monitors @ HTguide
                                                                  Jason

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                                                                  • aud19
                                                                    Twin Moderator Emeritus
                                                                    • Aug 2003
                                                                    • 16706

                                                                    #34
                                                                    By the way I just went and looked up the specs on the Toshiba... it's resolution is 1024x768 which they've erroneously labeled as 720p. True 720p would have 1280x720. Also as I mentioned resolutions that aren't standard to HD (1920x1080/1280x720) need more processing to be scaled to the displays native resolution. Don't get me wrong some/most displays do this very well but why do extra processing if you don't have to? The MSRP for that little plasma is $7500 too! Yikes 8O That could buy almost two DLP sets that are a lot bigger!

                                                                    Jason




                                                                    Need a new display? Questions about new display technologies? Visit RPTVs, plasmas, and other monitors @ HTguide
                                                                    Jason

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                                                                    • Adz
                                                                      Senior Member
                                                                      • Jan 2004
                                                                      • 549

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Samsung next RP DLP is coming out in June. 57 inch but with only the HD2 chip. Not sure why its not the HD2+ as that chip is out already in some front projection DLPs, but I guess I'll have to wait a little longer. They sure take their time.




                                                                      Adz
                                                                      Adz

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