How to resist upgraditis?

[Ovation]

I know, I know, this is an enthusiasts' board where we should be encouraging each other to experience the "latest and greatest". Even so, upgrading just for the sake of change is perhaps not the wisest of attitudes. It's just I'm feeling a case of "upgraditis" (mostly brought on by daydreams to distract me from the major paper I'm writing that's due on Monday :sos: :alol: ).

I currently have a (nearly 9 year old--will be by end of summer) 720p Sony AW-15 projector. At the time, 1080p projectors at the same price were crappy and flat panel TVs of the size I built my screen to be--64" 16:9--were five times the cost of the projector (my screen cost me, in material, about 120 bucks--it's very basic and won't win any aesthetic awards, but movies look great on it). The AW-15 was among the best 720p models--in my price range--and, objectively speaking, it looks about as good today as when it as new. Moreover, I'm more picky on audio than video (my eyes are diminishing faster than my hearing--unusual for a guy my age, but I never abused my hearing in my teens/twenties, like so many of my friends, and I've always managed, with very few exceptions, to work in noise-free environments).

Anyhoo, in the past year, I'd begun exploring some 1080p projectors as eventual replacements for my current one. Was planning a ten year anniversary swap out. I've even contemplated a 65-70" flat panel, as they are way more affordable (and better) than 2007 models. Along comes 4K with HDR to gum up the works. I can accommodate a flat panel in that size (I have room for that much, but not more, on my shelf--just in front of where I mounted my homemade screen). Even a 65" would look bigger, as it would be 1.5 feet closer to my sitting area (out from the wall) than my screen. However, I'm not going to the trouble of building another screen just for a few more inches--I built the size I did because of space constraints back then and very little has changed.

My "stolen moment" :W reading about displays in the past few weeks (there's only so much a guy can read about subtext and meaning of early 20th century Canadian social/moral reform movements in any given day :alol: ) suggest I would face more difficult choices than in 2007 if I were to pick up a display in the next while. On the one hand, given my screen size options/seating distances, 4K by itself is not enough to discard a good 1080p option (whether flat panel or projector). In another 10 years, I might move the setup into the larger space in the basement and go with a much larger screen (100" or more), but, by then, whatever I get soon (if I do), will be due for replacement anyway. I guess the HDR feature--which is touted by almost all the literature as far more important than 4K for anything under 90" anyway--is what's bugging me.

So, I guess I could just run my current projector until it dies (or begins to look bad--I'm on my second bulb, I won't buy a third). It's not like I have a lot of time to watch anything on it at the moment anyway. Or I could pretend 4K/HDR displays and players don't exist and get a 1080p projector (not like it won't be an improvement). Or I could try to find a nice 1080p flat panel (but plasma is gone and OLED is expensive, while all the good LCD displays will be 4K/HDR and I'll want to upgrade the player and probably have to get a new receiver...).

First world problems, eh? :alol:

I should probably get back to that paper. It won't write itself (and I won't be watching any kind of display until it's finished). Rant mode over. :T

[Alaric]

It's been my experience that the best cure for upgraditis is being broke.

I found myself in a Best Buy recently and looked at a couple 4k TVs that were conveniently displayed with some 1080p models. The 4k TVs were a noticeable improvement. I've read reviews and all the explanations of how the two are indistinguishable beyond X feet, etc.. Bullflop. To me, the difference between 4k and 1080p was as great as the difference between DVD and BluRay. My $.02. Just educate yourself on the proper settings for the display and make sure the demo units are set properly. Some sales departments have been known to alter the settings (color saturation, contrast, etc.) so the TVs with the biggest margins (highest commissions) look at their best, and vice versa. Even the signal choice for the showroom can have a huge effect on picture quality.

[madmac]

I remember when DVD first came out...... and it was a HUGE improvement over VHS (We'll forget about Laserdisc in this case!). When I got Blu ray the biggest difference I noticed was in audio. The video was better but only marginally and was quickly forgotten while watching it. In other words, I honestly don't care if I'm watching a DVD or Blu ray.

Nowadays, I find video is the law of diminishing returns. A good 1080P TV is fine by me. 4K is a waste of time now because there is no real content available in that native resolution. It's like putting the cart in front of the horse!

When my current TV dies I'll probably buy another 1080P set or if the prices are comparable for a newer generation of video technology I might go that route. However, I'm not rushing out for it. Good is good........and my current 1080P set is really good!

Don't even get me started about these 1080P LED sets that have flooded the market into peoples homes and bars. Although the blacks are better than my current LCoS set (and blacks are overrated anyway), the colors are so bad and off that I fear if I bought one, I would spend countless hours struggling with it to get the color, color saturation, and their unbearable, eye burning contrasts under control! My brother recently bought a 65" Samsung LED set and it honestly burns my retina's out !

[Chris D]

We all understand the problem, all too well.

I try to discipline myself to hold to the principle of, "Only upgrade if you can make a quantum jump in performance". Meaning, I try not to buy the latest gadget every year, replacing my XXXX-1 model with the new XXXX-2 that does the exact same thing and adds a minor new feature and 10W more power, or whatever. You end up spending $2,000 for what you pretty much already have, just to get the $75 additional feature you want to add.

Now for me, 4K does make a difference. And yes, 4K UltraHD players are now on the market, with 4K native resolution discs as well, so the material is there. Like every new resolution, availability is limited and growing slowly of course. But to me, 4K is a worthwhile upgrade, particularly if you need to replace a worn out TV or whatever. I too do notice the difference, just like Lee, even if the pundits say you can't tell.

Check this out for some info on 4k in your house. TODAY.

http://www.blu-ray.com/4k/

[aud19]

Personally, I'd wait as long as you can for OLED to come down in price as much as possible before buying. Especially if you're restricted to +/- 60".

Then get a ~65" OLED. Colour, black levels/contrast, 4K resolution etc. In your space you're not going to do any better.

[Ovation]

A sensible (and most likely) solution. I don't usually give in to my sporadic moments of upgraditis, as I don't have the infinity wallet, but I was particularly looking for a distraction from grad school assignments in the past few weeks and my display is the most in "need" of an upgrade.

In the real world, it'll be another 2 years at least (unless it dies) before I replace my display.

[aud19]

A sensible (and most likely) solution. I don't usually give in to my sporadic moments of upgraditis, as I don't have the infinity wallet, but I was particularly looking for a distraction from grad school assignments in the past few weeks and my display is the most in "need" of an upgrade.

In the real world, it'll be another 2 years at least (unless it dies) before I replace my display.

Yeah and hopefully in ~2 years, A nice 65", 4k OLED will be closer to will be closer to say $3500 AND likely have some further PQ advances (and more source material).

[Ovation]

If even one more manufacturer gets in the game the prices should start to drop.

[Ovation]

I found a way around the PJ/flat screen issue in my small room when it eventually comes time to replace my display (though I'm no rush--having had a bit of free time lately to reacquaint myself with my gear by actually using it, instead of thinking of all the ways I could "make it better", I've come to the realization that even my setup is better than 85% of anything people I actually know have in their homes). I would like a bigger screen, and I could squeeze in an 80" screen with a few adjustments to the current layout of stuff in there. However, I would also like to future proof my next display, so 4K/HDR seems a wise choice (when it happens) and a projector with both of those will likely take a while to be affordable (the ability to generate sufficient light/blacks with PJ tech is more difficult than with flat panels).

I have found a way to make a 65" screen turn into an 80" screen--an articulating, extendable wall mount. The mount will allow me to tilt the display (so it will have a proper angle of viewing--my current screen is a bit higher than ideal) AND will give me the same apparent size as an 80 inch screen by being 2 feet closer to the prime seat than my fixed mount PJ screen is currently. So, for about the same amount of money as I spent making my current screen, I can get an extendable mount and have the best of both worlds. I'm surprised this is not an option used by more people, at least in smaller rooms (the TV can be out of the way most of the time and be pulled out for "movie-scale" watching). Now I just have to wait for the magically affordable 65" OLED flat panel with 4K/HDR and all will be good. Until then, I'll keep living in 2007 (it's not a bad place to be compared to watching movies on my 12" CRT B&W in my dorm room 30 years ago).

[Hdale85]

I'm trying to resist right now.....the 65" OLED set I want has gotten pretty damn close to the price point I was waiting.

[Hdale85]

Yeah and hopefully in ~2 years, A nice 65", 4k OLED will be closer to will be closer to say $3500 AND likely have some further PQ advances (and more source material).

Last years 65" Model 4k is like 2999 online now. This years is still around 5k, but this years model has Dolby Vision and early next year should be around the 3k mark when the new models come out as well. So that's also tempting.

[Hdale85]

http://www.eastcoasttvs.com/LG-OLED-HDTV-p/65eg9600.htm?Click=7751&utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=shoppingengine&gclid=Cj0KEQjwv467BRCbkMvs5O3kioUBEiQAGDZHLzBdqV4kmVyENKd5-mRBUYpfX-qEljPtMt_JZzIaMosaAiVT8P8HAQ

Couple other places that have it for similar price as well.

[Ovation]

Last years 65" Model 4k is like 2999 online now. This years is still around 5k, but this years model has Dolby Vision and early next year should be around the 3k mark when the new models come out as well. So that's also tempting.

He means 3500$ in Canucksville. So, I expect it'll be 2019 before that happens (just as an example, there is a Samsung 4K model that's getting good reviews--KS8000--that, on sale, can be had for about 2000$ US for a 65". The same TV in Canada, "on sale", is 4600$. Even at current exchange rates, that's an extra 2000$ Canadian (and I haven't even added the 15% taxes in Quebec to the total). Sony's X930D has similar pricing disparities. If one has easy access to the States, it's possibly a good idea to get one there (even taking the import duty hit), but warranty service can be iffy.

[Hdale85]

Ah, yea you guys get screwed hard up there right now.

[aud19]

Last years 65" Model 4k is like 2999 online now. This years is still around 5k, but this years model has Dolby Vision and early next year should be around the 3k mark when the new models come out as well. So that's also tempting.

Nice :T

I'll be happy if my 60" 1080p plasma can last another ~5+ years *crosses fingers* and I can get a nice 60"+ OLED (even a previous year model) for anything near/under $2k at that point.

[Hdale85]

Nice :T

I'll be happy if my 60" 1080p plasma can last another ~5+ years *crosses fingers* and I can get a nice 60"+ OLED (even a previous year model) for anything near/under $2k at that point.

Yeah we got our 65" Vizio 1.5 years ago in anticipation of waiting for OLED to get down to around the 3k mark, BUT I also kind of want to upgrade my speakers and been looking at the SVS Prime speakers.....

[Ovation]

Yeah we got our 65" Vizio 1.5 years ago in anticipation of waiting for OLED to get down to around the 3k mark, BUT I also kind of want to upgrade my speakers and been looking at the SVS Prime speakers.....

If SVS speakers are only half as good as their subwoofers they'd be an excellent choice. My PB2000 is the single best thing added in my setup since my initial purchases (my VR-M Boston Acoustic speakers are the only original portion of my 2004 rig still in service in the main HT--sadly long out of production and, with the SVS, won't be replaced until they no longer function--all else is subject to upgrade as needed).

[Hdale85]

Yeah I've heard really good things about the prime series, and only like 1500 for a full 5 channel setup. They also have the Prime Ultra's I think they are called, those are about twice the price though.

[wkhanna]

i heard the original SVS surround setup at Capital Audiofest a few years back.
an excellent value at the time, imho.

[aud19]

Yeah I've heard really good things about the prime series, and only like 1500 for a full 5 channel setup. They also have the Prime Ultra's I think they are called, those are about twice the price though.

They're getting a LOT of good reviews. good bang4$.

[Hdale85]

Yeah, they would be replacing the Andrew Jones Pioneer speakers I have, which also were a huge bang per buck. They are like 3 time the cost and I imagine at least that in performance gain. Honestly for HT use my speakers are fine, it's mostly music that I desire more from.

[Ovation]

No choice but to upgrade now, my PJ crapped out on me yesterday. Not a great time for this (was hoping to see OLED as an affordable option in Canada OR a 4K/HDR capable PJ that fit my notion of affordable in 2-3 years time). It sucks plasmas are gone and OLED is so expensive still. Even in LED-LCD options, HDR (which all the reviewers say is more important than more pixels) only becomes available in models out of my current budget.

I guess we'll find out how long I can tolerate watching Lawrence of Arabia and Ben-Hur (the 50s one, not the new one) on my emergency 24" LED-LCD display. :E

[Hdale85]

I've been tempted to just get the newer Vizio P or M series.

http://www.cnet.com/products/vizio-p-series-review-2016/

At $1999 for the 65" model it's really nice for the money when compared to Sony and Samsung and according to most reviews similar picture quality to their high end offerings. The P series has 128 active LED zones and the M series has 64 Active LED zones. My current M series (last year of the 1080p M series and was highest rated 1080p set at the time I purchased) has 64 Active LED zones as well. Both support Dolby Vision and will get a software update for HDR10 as well. So unlike the Sony and Samsung offerings you get both with the Vizio.

Most of the time when I tell someone that a Vizio TV has a better picture than a Samsung, LG or Sony, they're incredulous. "Really?" they ask. "But it's so much cheaper. How is that possible?"

"I honestly don't know," I tell them. "But it's the best TV for the money you can buy."

[Ovation]

I've been tempted to just get the newer Vizio P or M series.

http://www.cnet.com/products/vizio-p-series-review-2016/

At $1999 for the 65" model it's really nice for the money when compared to Sony and Samsung and according to most reviews similar picture quality to their high end offerings. The P series has 128 active LED zones and the M series has 64 Active LED zones. My current M series (last year of the 1080p M series and was highest rated 1080p set at the time I purchased) has 64 Active LED zones as well. Both support Dolby Vision and will get a software update for HDR10 as well. So unlike the Sony and Samsung offerings you get both with the Vizio.

I've looked into it and Canadian options are more limited. Vizio does sell in Canada, but not all of their models. So far, what I've found (that fits my budget) are three options:

2016 D-series 65" 4K model (least expensive--gets a good review over at Secrets of Home Theater--no HDR or wider colour gamut)
2015 M-series 65" 4K model (a few hundred more than the D-series--very nicely regarded by reviewers, but last year's model--no HDR or wider colour gamut) The only 2016 M-series I've found available in Canada is the 80" (way out of my budget).
2016 P-series 55" 4K model (largest one available at present, that I've found). This one is interesting, as I can add an articulating wall mount and give myself the same apparent size as a 65" (and still fit my budget), but it's the only one in the series with an IPS panel, rather than a VA panel, and all the articles I've seen so far suggest its contrast performance would suffer notably in comparison. It does have HDR (and is supposed to have both via firmware update). Moreover, I'm coming from rather old tech, and I suspect any of these would be an improvement over what I had.

I guess I'm mostly bummed that my PJ died before OLED TVs became affordable (to me) in Canada. Oh well.

Based on Vizio's Canadian pricing on models that are available vs US pricing, a 65" P-series would be about 2800$ CDN (plus 15% tax in QC), if and when it becomes available. Too rich for my blood this year (the 55" plus mount comes to about 2000$ CDN--the upper range of the budget).

[Hdale85]

Wow so about 800 more. The 65" P series is 1999 over here.

[Ovation]

Wow so about 800 more. The 65" P series is 1999 over here.

The pricing chart seems to have been made earlier in the year, when the exchange rate was worse than it is now (1.42$CDN vs 1.30ish$CDN now). For the D and M series, the difference seems to be 500-700$ per model (from 55" up--I didn't look at smaller sets than that).

The US price point on the 65" P-series would be fine for my budget and I'd just grab that and be done with it. But life, when it comes to A/V gear, is always more complicated in the Great White North. At least Vizio is roughly in line with the exchange rate. Samsung has a nice model (KS8000) and I'd happily live with that one (I've seen it, unlike any of the Vizios). However, a 65" (available around 2000$ in the US on Amazon) lists at 4600$CDN (plus tax) and, while discounted, is still around 3500$CDN (so at least 800, if not 1000$CDN dollars above the exchange--Sony, while not as bad as Samsung, similarly adds more than just the exchange rate to prices). OLED is also more than the exchange rate in difference.

Oh well. First world problems, really.

[Hdale85]

Man that's terrible. I have a Vizio 65" M series, the last year of the 1080p M series and it's really good. The P series would be a huge upgrade though 4k, HDR, Dolby Vision, also going from 64 active led zones to 128. I've been debating if I can be happy enough with that for a few years instead of waiting for OLED lol.

[Ovation]

Man that's terrible. I have a Vizio 65" M series, the last year of the 1080p M series and it's really good. The P series would be a huge upgrade though 4k, HDR, Dolby Vision, also going from 64 active led zones to 128. I've been debating if I can be happy enough with that for a few years instead of waiting for OLED lol.

Somewhat ironic, really, as I started this thread a while ago (mostly looking for a distraction from work) as an expression of an "itch" to upgrade and, since I first posted, had come around to the idea of staying the course for a while longer. Just when I'd fully reconciled myself to enjoying what I have (which, despite its age, is better than what most people I know have--in the aggregate. Some have better displays (though none as large as mine) but no one I know "in real life" has a sound system anywhere near as good as mine), now I have to upgrade after all. C'est la vie.

[Ovation]

Just found CDN prices for P-series. 55" is 1800$ and 65" is 3000$. 75" is 5500$. Looks like it'll be 55" if I go with the P-series. Need to see IPS and VA panels to be sure.

Only 70 and 80" M-series (2016) will be available in Canada. 3200$ and 6000$ respectively.

(All prices before 15% tax).

I can get the (2016) D-series 65" for 1500$ And the (2015) M-series 65" for 1900$. With the 55" P-series, I have to add 200$ for the articulating wall mount, so 2000$. Decisions, decisions.

[Hdale85]

Jesus....3k that's a full grand more than the states!

[Hdale85]

Which is weird as the 55" is only 300 more.......

[Ovation]

Which is weird as the 55" is only 300 more.......

Canadian consumers tend to be a little more European with big ticket items than Americans (I don't want to over stress the point but it is true to a point). Higher cost of living and higher percentage of urban vs suburban population points to smaller cars, living spaces, TVs and so on (more pronounced in eastern half of the country). I expect Vizio's marketing research suggests much higher volume sales on the smaller TV, so they keep the price lower than the exchange rate there and make up the difference on the bigger sets.

[Hdale85]

I see, sounded like you would of liked a 65" though lol. Especially since you're going from a projector to direct view.

[Ovation]

I see, sounded like you would of liked a 65" though lol. Especially since you're going from a projector to direct view.

I would have liked to (and I may go with the 2015 M-series). However, it's difficult to resist the newer model's features, especially with wall mount equalizer.

Back when I bought my projector price discrepancies were the same. I bought it in the US and had it shipped to my campus in Vermont. A PJ is not too difficult to get across the border undetected. Not so easy with a large flat panel TV.

[Hdale85]

If you bring a TV across you have to pay a tax I guess?

[Ovation]

If you bring a TV across you have to pay a tax I guess?

Import duties, sales taxes and suffer the exchange rate. If I bring five other people with me, for 48 hours, and pool our exemptions, no duty or taxes. But it's not the most practical plan.

[Hdale85]

would require a larger vehicle lol, but might be worth it considering you can get a 65" for about what you'd pay for a 55".

[Ovation]

The 55" option is practical on another level. At present, the living room TV is a (very nice in its day) Sony SD CRT. My wife (who cares not one whit about A/V--she'd still be happy with the 13" TV she had when we first got together) generously helps finance my hobby but the deal is no "big ticket items" (usually defined as 1000$ or more at purchase) is to be replaced only when it no longer works (damn Sony for making such good TVs back then ). The deal keeps us both happy (when I do get gear, it's never the cheapest option as I keep my stuff a long time anyway--even before we met) but this time caught me unprepared and I'm working under a tighter budget than usual. The deal for the projector was two bulbs or device failure (which I calculated was 10-12 years under my usage). However, I'd not counted on going back to grad school when I planned the potential upgrade time frame. Hence the budget crunch.

So the 55" can be the current "cave" display and it can move upstairs when the CRT finally dies, to be replaced in the "cave" by bigger and better.

[Ovation]

would require a larger vehicle lol, but might be worth it considering you can get a 65" for about what you'd pay for a 55".

I did a quick estimate: rental vehicle, food and accommodation for 6 people, fuel, time--I don't think I come out ahead. :lol:

[Hdale85]

Ah lol, y eah probably not if you have to foot the cost for everyone.

[aud19]

Ovation, have you looked at Costco.ca for pricing? They carry Vizio and frequently have sales on them as well.

[Ovation]

Ovation, have you looked at Costco.ca for pricing? They carry Vizio and frequently have sales on them as well.

I have. Vizio, via press release, has announced all 4 P-series, two largest M-series, 2 E-series and several D-series will be the extent of their Canadian 4K models. Only P-series 55" has all the bells and whistles and fits the budget. It's 1800$ at Costco.ca. It's a 5 week back order. 65" will be 3000$ when available. 2015 M-series is available (1900$ for 65") and D-series 65" (2016) is 1500$. E-series not yet available and least well reviewed of the series. P-series has 126 FALD zones, HDR (both types by August via firmware), widest colour gamut and best other features. 2015 M and 2016 D have 32 and 16 FALD zones, respectively and no HDR or wide colour gamut. P55 has IPS panel while other two have VA panel (better in dark room for blacks but narrower viewing angle and slightly more muted colour). Ideally I'd get the P65, but this wasn't planned so it's not in the budget. Had brief hope of scoring a 1080p OLED within budget or a Samsung F8500 plasma at local chain, but they're all floor demos--neither tech is immune to mistreatment the way LCD is, so I'll pass.

I did spend time with some LG IPS panel TVs in a dimly lit room and I could live with those blacks--makes me feel less concerned about the same thing on the P55.

Not the ideal way to upgrade but I think I'll be better off with whatever I get vs my 9 year old PJ.

[Ovation]

Still vacillating. I spent a good chunk of time today comparing Samsung and LG flat panels. The more I watched them, the more I noticed the kinds of problems that used to bother me about LCD TVs back in the day (curiously, LCD projectors don't seem to suffer from these issues, probably because the actual panels are exceedingly tiny). Watched a good chunk of tennis match, got to play with various controls on different TVs, and I came away less than impressed with any of them (except OLED, and even then) with anything other than the 4K demo loop material. Sucks that plasma is no longer around (my brother in law has a very good Panasonic plasma, and it doesn't have any of the image issues I find annoying with LCD TVs). I don't want to overstate the problems (and I did not watch any Blu-rays--just cable sports), but there's also something about the reflective nature of the panels in larger sizes that bugs me a little (no such reflections on my PJ screen). On small TVs/monitors, it's not a big deal (and none of the ones in my house are highly reflective anyway). Maybe I'm just becoming an old curmudgeon who's resistant to change.

I've half a mind to just get another projector. Sadly, the ones I'm interested in, like the TVs that most appeal to me, are out of budget. However, the Epson HC3500 seems to be decently reviewed, and while it's meant for a more brightly lit space than I've been used to, that may not be such a bad thing. It's also well within budget, I can keep my screen for now, get/make a bigger one later and even if not close to cutting edge, I have to believe it's got a better PQ than my 9 year old 720p PJ did. Not entirely sold on it, but it would be a more familiar situation.

Arrgghhh! Too many, and paradoxically, too few, options.

[Alaric]

Arrgghhh! Too many, and paradoxically, too few, options.

I sympathize with your sentiment. As we get more and more technology options it gets overwhelming. Seems 1000 choices, more often than not, just means 999 ways to get it wrong.

[madmac]

Still vacillating. I spent a good chunk of time today comparing Samsung and LG flat panels. The more I watched them, the more I noticed the kinds of problems that used to bother me about LCD TVs back in the day (curiously, LCD projectors don't seem to suffer from these issues, probably because the actual panels are exceedingly tiny). Watched a good chunk of tennis match, got to play with various controls on different TVs, and I came away less than impressed with any of them (except OLED, and even then) with anything other than the 4K demo loop material. Sucks that plasma is no longer around (my brother in law has a very good Panasonic plasma, and it doesn't have any of the image issues I find annoying with LCD TVs). I don't want to overstate the problems (and I did not watch any Blu-rays--just cable sports), but there's also something about the reflective nature of the panels in larger sizes that bugs me a little (no such reflections on my PJ screen). On small TVs/monitors, it's not a big deal (and none of the ones in my house are highly reflective anyway). Maybe I'm just becoming an old curmudgeon who's resistant to change.

I've half a mind to just get another projector. Sadly, the ones I'm interested in, like the TVs that most appeal to me, are out of budget. However, the Epson HC3500 seems to be decently reviewed, and while it's meant for a more brightly lit space than I've been used to, that may not be such a bad thing. It's also well within budget, I can keep my screen for now, get/make a bigger one later and even if not close to cutting edge, I have to believe it's got a better PQ than my 9 year old 720p PJ did. Not entirely sold on it, but it would be a more familiar situation.

Arrgghhh! Too many, and paradoxically, too few, options.

You should still be able to find a few Plasma's around no??