Can you See the Difference between 1080i + 1080p

[misterdoggy]

I recently bought a 50 inch Plasma which supports 1080i. Now everything is going hdmi and 1080p HD/DVD Blu-Ray etc.

I have a DVDO VP30 ABT102 Card and am currently using 1080i. All the new plasma's coming out "say" 1080p, but I've read many articles that say even though they state 1080p you're really only getting 1080i.

This is the Question:
On a 50 inch Plasma (not a projector or anything larger)

1. Would I really see a difference between 1080i and 1080p

2. This is based upon which ever source, ie: can be a HD/DVD 1080p source or just a upscaled 1080i achieved thru a video processor.

I am trying to rationalize why change my plasma. I have read the human eye at 50 inch screen cannot differentiate. What's the Groups take on this ?

You advice is appreciated

[kurtholz]

Hey Misterdodgy

I think the big difference is between 720P and 1080i, my experience is most all HD channels are 1080i or lower now, however a lot of the better plasma's & DVD players will upconvert to 720P
i use an LG 50" plasma, the tech spent about 4 hours in the service menu fine tuning it, there is minute difference betwen a regular channel and an HD one now, i do think it upconverts very well

dvd is a massive difference, but my player does a great job of upconverting also, and i use hdmi

i have looked over the blu ray/ HD players, i think it is way to early to consider them anything more than a waste of money,many bugs and the few movies that are out vary drasticaly in quality

my two cents

good luck

Kurt

[misterdoggy]

Kurt,

I was using 720p but found 1080i slightly better. Here in Europe the Satellites broadcast in 575i and we don't have HD yet, but coming shortly.

[kurtholz]

hmmm, that doesnt make sense to me, since 720p is twice the resolution as 1080i, or am i wrong?

no, that can't be, me wrong

:-)

Kurt

[misterdoggy]

well actually 1080i (interlaced) is a nicer picture, except when there is high movement then 720p (progressive) becomes more useful.

[kurtholz]

oh well thanks

like i didnt need something new to worry about and mess with

thanks

thanks a lot

:-)

you know how long it will take to play with 6 flat screens strung thru the house, trying to decide if there is something to this new 1080i thing

French guy's, this year we kick you out of Nato

hahahahha

Kurt

[aud19]

The quickest answer is "it depends".

It depends on whether the signal was originally 1080p or 1080i, it depends on your sets scaler, it depends on your source's output etc.

For instance a LOT of sets will not even accept a 1080p input even if they are 1080p displays. However if being fed a 1080i signal from a an HD-DVD/BD player that is natively 1080p on the disc, to your set (assuming it does 3:2 de-interlacing correctly) there will be no difference between it and a set accepting a 1080p signal.

This does not even get in to things like visual acuity, seating distance, scrren size etc.

[Chris D]

Me, I personally prefer 720p to 1080i. But 1080p will be absolutely useful to me once it's more mainstream and I can afford to do it. Especially on my 119" screen.

[SteveCallas]

Th real benefit to 1080p displays is not the progressive image, it's 1920x1080 pixel resolution. 720p sets which support 1080i playback are typically either 1024x720, 1024x768, or 1366x768, meaning they cannot display a true 1080 image (whether interlaced or progressive) without downscaling first. You're gaining about 2x more picture information with a 1080p display, even with 1080i sources.

So yes, you would see a difference between a 1080i capable and 1080p capable display (assuming both are of decent quality), but it probably won't be because of a source being progressive as opposed to interlaced. There are several articles on the internet that explain why the human eye can't differentiate true 1080i from 1080p (1920x1080 interlaced or progressive), and just about all 1080p sets upscale any incoming image to 1080p anyway.

[peterS]

in theory the jump from 720p to 1080i/p should be as profound as that from 480i/p to 720p
in reality it isnt at this point as much of the 720p material isnt even that hot
most 1080p sets i have seen look like garbage (sxrd being the only exception), almost accentuating the problems in source material
ie
the same program will look better overall on a 720p set than a 1080i/p

progressive scanning just captures motion and displays diagonal lines in motion better i believe

[Snap]

I am trying to find the article that was saying that human eyes can not see the difference between 180i and 1080P. It was a good article. There comes a time when you reach the limits of perfection. IMHO. The cost out does the rewards. 720P is an awesome picture, and I am more than happy to have 720P or 1080I. But that is just me.

[ShadowZA]

Here are some articles. Perhaps not quite what you're looking for, but close:

Is 720p better than 1080i?

http://www.highdefinitionblog.com/?page_id=88

What is 1080i?

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-1080i-video.htm

1080p: a year later

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_b/1080p_a_year_later.html

[SteveCallas]

the same program will look better overall on a 720p set than a 1080i/p

Well that's a pretty big stretch. Downscaling material to only display half of the intended resolution may look better with really crappy feeds, but with any decent 1080i/p stuff, having 1920x1080 resolution will present a more detailed picture.

There comes a time when you reach the limits of perfection

We're not there yet.

[Brandon B]

I'd say it is completely untrue as well. I saw the exact same hidef reference material playing on JVC's 720 and 1080 HDILA sets at CEATEC in Japan a couple of years ago. If for no other reason, the 1080 looked better because the video noise artifacts, which are pixel sized, are smaller on 1080, and the picture looked noticably cleaner because of it.

But in addition, there was more detail to see. And that was on 70" RP sets. Move the discussion to FP and it's not worth arguuing about.

BB

[misterdoggy]

Remember the image of 1080i would be better than 720p if the image was not moving like a foto

But with high animation and lots of movement ie: video games, 720p will probably produce less artifacts and render a better picture, but I have not seen a difference between 720p and 1080i on a 50 inch Panasonic plasma

[TwisterZ]

Hello All

This is a great topic. The only 50" plasma with 1080p is the new Pioneer Elite FHD1, all other 50" plasma TV's are 1366X768 or 720p. Here is where this topic falls apart, (720p-1080i-1080p) at what frame rate. 1080i-60 & 1080p-30 will look the same if your tv deinterlaces properly, remember that all the panels are progressive in nature even if they can't accept a progressive input. This all gets crazy when you go to 24 frames like movies. Now you have pull down issues. The Pioneer FHD1 does 72 frames so it can do a 3:3 pull down from 24 frame material.

All that aside if we could get a 1080p60 source it would outshine everything else even at 50"(but bigger is more fun, love my 110"). The 1080 resolution gives a deeper more 3d look than 720. So if the frame rate is the same than 2.1 million pixels has my vote.

[peterS]

Well that's a pretty big stretch. Downscaling material to only display half of the intended resolution may look better with really crappy feeds, but with any decent 1080i/p stuff, having 1920x1080 resolution will present a more detailed picture.


We're not there yet.

did you not read anything else in my post
some of the 1080p sets arnt that hot either

[SteveCallas]

Here is where this topic falls apart, (720p-1080i-1080p) at what frame rate. 1080i-60 & 1080p-30 will look the same if your tv deinterlaces properly

This holds true on a 1080p set, but a 720p set can't display 1080i properly to begin with, it's downscaling it.

did you not read anything else in my post

I didn't feel your other statements needed to be addressed, but I'll give it a go.

in theory the jump from 720p to 1080i/p should be as profound as that from 480i/p to 720p

I gotta disagree. As resolution gets higher and higher, the law of diminishing returns will start to set in. While a doubling of the resolution will result in a better picture, each doubling will be less of an overall improvement than the previous doubling.

[comeup]

I'm sorry fella's but I don't see a difference between the two I was in Best Buy today and looked at the two Pioneer Elites one 1080P and the other 1080i one 4999$ the other 7999$ I swear I coudn't see a difference I actually thought the Panasonic for 3499$ looked just as good as both Pioneers. All were 50 inch plasmas. I still can't see a huge difference between component video and HDMI on my HD RCA tube.In some cases the component looks better to me. I'm leaning torwards the belief that the entertainment industry is pushing HDMI for copyright reasons at the click of button they can stop us from recording something off of tv with the digital connection. Sorry to get off subject just my honest opinion. Now with a huge 100 inch screen maybe I would see a difference between 1080i/1080p

[SteveCallas]

I still can't see a huge difference between component video and HDMI on my HD RCA tube.

That would make sense, as your "tube" is analog. I'd use component cables to skip the extra analog to digital conversion. With digital sets, using HDMI skips two conversions - digital to analog in the output device so the signal can be carried over component, and then analog to digital in the display.

I'm sorry fella's but I don't see a difference between the two I was in Best Buy today and looked at the two Pioneer Elites one 1080P and the other 1080i one 4999$ the other 7999$ I swear I coudn't see a difference

That's understandable as well. The feeds BB uses aren't exactly top notch and they don't always have the sets configured very well.

[peterS]

I'm sorry fella's but I don't see a difference between the two I was in Best Buy today and looked at the two Pioneer Elites one 1080P and the other 1080i one 4999$ the other 7999$ I swear I coudn't see a difference I actually thought the Panasonic for 3499$ looked just as good as both Pioneers. All were 50 inch plasmas. I still can't see a huge difference between component video and HDMI on my HD RCA tube.In some cases the component looks better to me. I'm leaning torwards the belief that the entertainment industry is pushing HDMI for copyright reasons at the click of button they can stop us from recording something off of tv with the digital connection. Sorry to get off subject just my honest opinion. Now with a huge 100 inch screen maybe I would see a difference between 1080i/1080p

there is a big difference between the panasonic and pioneer (720p)
havent seen the 1080p and was not aware they had a 1080i (maybe you are confused)
both current versions of pioneer and pannasonic (consumer version)are worse than lasty ears oddly enough
many feel the samsung is the best bang for the buck now

[comeup]

there is a big difference between the panasonic and pioneer (720p)
havent seen the 1080p and was not aware they had a 1080i (maybe you are confused)
both current versions of pioneer and pannasonic (consumer version)are worse than lasty ears oddly enough
many feel the samsung is the best bang for the buck now

What I mean't are the differences between the Elites 1080p and the 720P I know all of them support 1080i, not being sarcastic, but from what I saw there was not a big difference between the two not for the 3k difference they also had the Samsung LCD and Sony LCD along with the Panasonic. The Panasonic looked the best for the money better than the Samsung IMO. The Pioneers and the Sony I thought were over priced. There was an 55 inch Hitachi plasma for 3999$ that I thought was not in the running. I know the feed was not the best but it was good. From everything I've read the Pioneer is the best I just didn't see it. I'm no expert by far and know all these flats would look alot better with fine tuning, but that Panasonic sure would look good on my wall.


Right now I have a Hitachi 53 inch RPTV in my theater room and i'm dying to get a flat screen. In all honesty any of these flats would look good on my wall with out the other to compare it to :W

[Owen Bartley]

That's understandable as well. The feeds BB uses aren't exactly top notch and they don't always have the sets configured very well.

I can't believe that while they are pushing HD as much as they are that the corporation wouldn't hire someone to properly set up their in store displays. At the very least, have the main HD-DVD or Blu Ray display set up right. It just blows my mind that the Best Buys and Future Shops won't bother to do it right.

[SteveCallas]

I can't believe that while they are pushing HD as much as they are that the corporation wouldn't hire someone to properly set up their in store displays. At the very least, have the main HD-DVD or Blu Ray display set up right. It just blows my mind that the Best Buys and Future Shops won't bother to do it right.

It's pretty crazy. I've seen a few 1080p sets being fed by standard def, non upconverting dvd players - to add insult to injury, it was full frame stretched to fill the tv 8O

[peterS]

I can't believe that while they are pushing HD as much as they are that the corporation wouldn't hire someone to properly set up their in store displays. At the very least, have the main HD-DVD or Blu Ray display set up right. It just blows my mind that the Best Buys and Future Shops won't bother to do it right.

manufacturers dont want it... there out of box settings are due to marketing and sadly it works. when i changed it the reps would change it back
its silly how high the contrast is on the samsung and panasonic plasmas

[peterS]

It's pretty crazy. I've seen a few 1080p sets being fed by standard def, non upconverting dvd players - to add insult to injury, it was full frame stretched to fill the tv 8O

you can thank customers who like to press butons.... thats why they no longer display remotes... its amaizing what 30 seconds of random buton pressing takes to rectify

[peterS]

What I mean't are the differences between the Elites 1080p and the 720P I know all of them support 1080i, not being sarcastic, but from what I saw there was not a big difference between the two not for the 3k difference they also had the Samsung LCD and Sony LCD along with the Panasonic. The Panasonic looked the best for the money better than the Samsung IMO. The Pioneers and the Sony I thought were over priced. There was an 55 inch Hitachi plasma for 3999$ that I thought was not in the running. I know the feed was not the best but it was good. From everything I've read the Pioneer is the best I just didn't see it. I'm no expert by far and know all these flats would look alot better with fine tuning, but that Panasonic sure would look good on my wall.


Right now I have a Hitachi 53 inch RPTV in my theater room and i'm dying to get a flat screen. In all honesty any of these flats would look good on my wall with out the other to compare it to :W

i havent seen the elite 1080p on display yet. ive had a sales man tell me they were the 1080p but infact they are the 720p

the hitachi looks pretty good in my opinion but its pixel structure confuses/ scares me

[David Meek]

The two Elite 1080p units (PRO-FHD1 and PRO-1410HD) are monitors and only have a contrast ratio of 3,000:1.

[Chris D]

manufacturers dont want it... there out of box settings are due to marketing and sadly it works. when i changed it the reps would change it back
its silly how high the contrast is on the samsung and panasonic plasmas

Thank you, Peter, for being our voice of reason at BB!

[comeup]

manufacturers dont want it... there out of box settings are due to marketing and sadly it works. when i changed it the reps would change it back
its silly how high the contrast is on the samsung and panasonic plasmas

this could be why I think the Panasonic looks better I didn't touch a button