16:9 720p ~$2k

[ekkoville]

Sorry about the confusion Nick, I might have read it wrong. I saw my first DLP yesterday, the inFocus 7205. Was not impressed. Very bright, but terrible screen door effect and smeared facial features. We watched a great scene from House of Flying Daggers, I think that was it, up close flesh was very smeared and not clear, this was on a Stewart Greyhawk screen also.

[Snap]

As far as screens are concerned I strickly use Drapper. Love em. I have put them in houses of worship, HT and what ever! I am haning 3 more next month in a church in town. :T 9.5 foot wide for the ones that I am hanging now. I have also used Drapper Back lit screens as well.

Great stuff!

[Snap]

As far as Projectors are go...Sanyo, NEC, Eiki and that would be it that I have used, and trust right now. That is not the all covering list, but that is what I have used. Sanyo is the best bang for the buck that is for SURE! :T

[George Bellefontaine]

I saw my first DLP yesterday, the inFocus 7205. Was not impressed. Very bright, but terrible screen door effect and smeared facial features. We watched a great scene from House of Flying Daggers, I think that was it, up close flesh was very smeared and not clear, this was on a Stewart Greyhawk screen also.

At the proper seating distance, you shouldn't see screen door on dlp, or even lcd for that matter. That smeared facial features thing with the 7205 just doesn't sound right. Definitely something wrong with that particular PJ because I have seen the Infocus demoed and the picture was pristine, though a little too bright for my tastes.

[Andrew Pratt]

Actually if its Sanyo you want see if there's a Studio Experience version...better warrenty and tighter tollerance on parts for similar money as the Sanyo version.

[Jurgen]

I saw my first DLP yesterday, the inFocus 7205. Was not impressed. Very bright, but terrible screen door effect and smeared facial features. We watched a great scene from House of Flying Daggers, I think that was it, up close flesh was very smeared and not clear, this was on a Stewart Greyhawk screen also.

Don't rule out the dvd either. I don't know how the mastering quality is compared to the version of HOTFD I have seen (official region 3 release), but that was (one of) the most appalling transfer(s) I have seen in a while on dvd, and the artefacts you describe also manifested itself on my set (I have a properly calibrated lcd pj and also checked the PQ on a CRT widescreen t.v.).
For any rate; I would NOT choose to review a projector based on one movie transfer.

[ekkoville]

Jurgen, you are probably right. I also don't know if the calibration was right, but the colors were very good, so maybe it was. I should have asked to see another movie also, I will have to go back and request another demo.

[Jurgen]

Hi Erik,

I am curious if it makes a difference!

Jurgen

[Nick M]

I'm going to order a Sanyo PLV-Z3 on Thursday.

Have my Carada samples and Da-Lite is sending some of theirs today.

Stewart and a couple other manufacturers blew me off, so they won't be getting my cash. Pretty bad when people won't return eMail/phone calls yet they expect you to dole out $1k+ for one of their screens. Not me! :lol: :roll:

More to come...

[Snap]

Nick did you check out Draper? What about Jimmy? Can he hook you up with the Sanyo for a good price? Mabe even get you the screens too?? I would ask him about pricing if he can hook you up.

[Nick M]

Stewart and Draper blew me off regarding screen samples, so they won't be getting any of my consideration or cash.

I checked out Jimmy's site, and he doesn't appear to deal any Sanyo products. The Z3 is going from Visual Apex for $1725 + Free Shipping.

[George Bellefontaine]

Nick, give uis a little review of the Sanyo after you have it up and running. I think you are making a good choice there and at a great price.

[Snap]

Sucks man to hear about Draper. Da-Light blew me off and Draper had no problems setting up my accout. That is why I had asked about Draper cause they were awesome for me.

I understand about not wanting to give them any of your business all things concidered.

Let us know what you think.

Regards,
SNAP

[ktaillon]

I just went out to B&H Photo in NY. They had a bunch of projectors openly to play with. I did compare the Z2 with the Z3. The Z2 is a great unit for the money - BUT the Z3 had better contrast and the edges were much smoother, the colors seemed to stand out better, no matter what way we did with the settings.
I also liked the Z3 over the other brands (sony,Panasonic,Optoma).

Just my two cents - B&H was a great place to check out...

[Nick M]

Well guys, I took the plunge today and purchased a Sanyo PLV-Z3 through Visual Apex. Excellent price and customer service.

I'm biting my nails about having the image go blue and the lamp blow at hour 2. :E

[aud19]

Congrats Nick :T Out to be a small improvement over your current set :lol:

[Nick M]

Yeah, going from a 4x3 13" 480i unit to a 16x9 72"+ 720p unit should yield some positive results.

This has been one of the longest dryspells in HT purchases due to my job change and having to save almost two grand. Can't wait to get it!

[Nick M]

Wow, Da-Lite sent me eighteen screen samples!

Plus I have three from Carada.

More to come when the PJ arrives...

[Nick M]

A quick shot of the Da-Lite samples I received. The top left sample is their "High Power" material which has a gain of 2.8! (Note that the paper the samples are mounted on are Matt White and have a Gain of 1).

It also rejects ambient light, giving you an image that won't get as washed out when the room isn't completely blacked out. I can't wait to test this particular material. It's one of those things that make you say "Wow" when you handle it.

Downside is that it has a 30* cone of effect, and you must have the PJ either table mounted, or only a couple feet above your head or less. My room/seats/planned PJ position all fall within these guidelines, so this material would fit my application. It has rave reviews as well.

Due to my purchase of the Z3, I received a preferred quote from VA of $895 (incl. shipping) for a 77" High Power screen tensioned in a Pro-Trimmed (velvet lined) 3" wide Cinema Contour frame. I'll be ready to pounce on this in mid/late August if I like it after actually testing it with my Z3.

Thats if I get a DVD player back that functions properly...:roll:

[Andrew Pratt]

I've been curious about the high power screen's as well. My PJ's a couple of feet above my head so it might work ok for me too. Too bad you didn't get any stewart samples as the firehawk's impressive as well.

[Nick M]

Well guys, I officially have a front projector! :-y





The Sanyo PLV-Z3 arrived today. Unfortunately I just received an eMail that the used Denon DVD-2910 replacing my failed DVD-2900 is shipping today. I have to check out the tracking number they sent me after 8pm EST.

But oh man is this thing cool! Just made a rough placement on a bookshelf behind the couch. The projector will actually be mounted just 2ft above where it sits on top of the bookshelf now. The lens shift works kick-@$$! Not sure how anyone could live without this feature.

With my new black curtains I bought last week, my room is more than dark enough even during the middle of the day. The lamp is set on low too! I'm going to have to shorten my center speaker stand by 4-6". Right now all five monitors are at ear level, but this is a sacrifice I'll have to make, the screen just seems too high...

Did some experimenting with screen samples using various menu options and colors. Was quite suprised...

Things I found I disliked...
1. Textured materials. They soften the image some, and don't preserve that razorsharp digital quality.

2. Any material gray in color. Blacks are definetly better as well as the resulting contrast, but colors look like $#!t! That vibrant chlorophyl green color of spring grass becomes november pine needle green and Tomato red becomes a maroonish offshoot. Blechhhhh! :gah: Not to mention that the brightest white you can see is the color of the gray screen... :roll:

3. Any coating/finish that sparkles. It bugs the hell out of me, and plays tricks on my eyes. Silver screen, glass beaded, even the "High Power" I was boasting about.

4. Screens with a viewing angle less than 45*. Even though my couch is within a 30* angle of each screen edge, the only seat that looks 100% is the middle one.

This eliminated every single Da-Lite screen sample I have. :lol:

Oddly enough, I thought the best image was produced on the Carada Brilliant White (1.4 Gain) material! There isn't any weave to it that softens the image, white's are white, colors are pure, there is no sparkling/shimmering, and it looks the same almost 180*, no matter where you sit/stand. It's really not that much different than the Carada Matte White material. The matte seems to be slightly off pure white while the Brilliant White is like Elmer's glue white. The Criterion frames look quite impressive too. I'm just worried about having enough tension with the Carada material. It's slightly stretchy, and I'm worried it will lose it's elasticity/resiliency and sag after a couple years. I suppose if it does they will replace the material.

Found out with my placement option, 80" is the smallest Carada screen size I can go with (min zoom on the PJ produces a 74" diagonal image). So here is what I plan to get...

Carada Brilliant White 80" Diagonal Criterion 1.78 to 1 Screen ~US$645

I'll most liekly be ordering it on the 24th. Have to pay the bills and flight tuition first... :B

[Azeke]

That's wonderful news Nick. I will be in the market soon, as my current projector is approximately 4 yrs. old, so I will interested in hearing further reviews about both your screen and projector.

BTW, You will need to angle the Front channel, I used a door stop to accomplish this feat, works like a charm.

Good luck and congratulations,

Azeke

[ekkoville]

Awsome news Nick, thanks for all the hard work and reports you have given in this post. It is making my decisions easier after reading about your leg work. I am suprised at the Da-Lite screen, how big are the samples that everyone sent you? Can't wait to see and read more.

[George Bellefontaine]

Hey, Nick ! :T

Re: the lens shift feature. Up until I bought the Yamaha LPX 510, all the PJs I've owned lacked the lens shift feature, which meant you really had to position the PJ properly to avoid keystoning, and this often took a lot of mathematics and sometimes even trial and error. Lens shift is such a wonderful feature, it really makes life easier for installers.

[Nick M]

Shortened my center speaker stand 6". It has an insert tacked in on each end with a threaded fitting, so all I did was grind the tacks off, pop the insert out, chop 6" off the tube, weld the insert back in, and touched it up with some flat black paint. I also cut the tubing at a 5* angle, which tilts the speakers up just right for the listening position. The tweeter is now 6" below the tweets on the other four monitors, but it makes a huge difference with screen positioning. I can already tell I will be getting a degradation in SACD/DVD-A quality from doing this though. Oh well...

I'm going to design a mount for the PJ today, and hopefully have it fabricated with the PJ up by the end of the weekend. The screen will come later this month.

Still waiting on the Denon... :|

EDIT:
George - Lens shift is most definetly one of the best bonus features on this PJ! :T

Erik - The Carada samples were 8.5x11, the Da-Lite samples were 8x8 I believe.

[Nick M]

The used 2910 being sent as a replacement for my 2900 won't get here until the 11th... :roll:

Another week of no music/no DVDs... :M

[Dean McManis]

Congratulations on your new projector Nick!

I'm sure that Lex is pleased that you chose the Carada screen, as they are a sponsor here at HTGuide, and especially because your decision was based on the comparative quality of the Carada screen.

I was surprised with my early screens as I had initially thought that they would be made from cloth/fabric (some are) but most of them were some kind of an elastic-plastic material kind of similar to a white band-aid.

The good side is that most screen materials are washable, and I haven't really had any of my different screens (6 and counting) warp, droop, or stretch out of shape over time.

-Dean.

[Nick M]

Dean, George, Azeke, Ekko - Thanks, I'm really excited about this. I have to say I was most relieved when I fired it up and the image was plenty bright enough. I was worried I was going to be squinting in my room due to four huge windows and the ambient light that escapes around the edges of the thick black material. There's enough light to read the remote and eat, which is great!

I went over to a hardware store and walmart to find an articulating arm that I could weld onto two plates and make a great mount from. Found a TV wall mount similar to the brackets you find at hospitals and autoparts stores that hold the TVs up n' out of the way. Works pisser! Only $35 too.



Four more days until the DVD player arrives. Picking up a 35'-40' HDMI cable (have to measure again) in two weeks, then the Carada screen in three weeks. With the current projector position I have to go 84" due to the PJ moving back about a 1'. The minimum zoom produces an 82" image. 84" is alot more than the recommended 72", but you gotta' do what you gotta' do I guess... :B

I'll be able to tell what size/quality is acceptable once I get the DVD player.

Excited! :-y

[George Bellefontaine]

Great wallmount, Nick. A steal, too at $35.

[aud19]

Congrats Nick :T

[Dean McManis]

That wall mount really does look nice (especially for the price).
I wouldn't have thoughts about about using a TV wall mount like that, but it looks professional, like it was built for the projector.

[Nick M]

Thanks Dean & Jason!

The Denon 2910 should arrive tomorrow. Have to pay my rent and flight tuition this week, so until my next paycheck I'll have to use a good-'ole composite cable for video... :roll:

I should have some pics up either tomorrow or Friday depending on when the 2910 arrives.

[Azeke]

That's a beautiful wall mount Mr. Nick, or should I say Mr. MacGyver 8) .

Azeke

[Nick M]

(note this is with 3x12' composite cables linked end to end with the 2910 doing the processing, HDMI with the Z3 doing the processing should be even better).

A couple quick shots. The three screen samples are the Carada samples (from L-R; Brilliant White, Classic Cinema White, High Contrast Grey). Changed my mind again too! With actual video being played, I've eliminated the Brilliant White and am now in a toss-up between the Classic Cinema White and High Contrast Grey.

I'll post a much more in depth opinion tomorrow w/more photos. Have to hit the hay... :tired:

Very very cool having an 84" widescreen image...:yesnod:

EDIT: To soothe my dissapointment with the Z3 price drop 2days after I ordered, Visual Apex is extending my PJ warranty to 4 years and I just received a 128MB USB Thumb Drive in the mail. I feel a little better now.

I'll also include pics/review of the 2910 which replaced my busted 2900 tomorrow.

Have a good one boys!

[Josh Wilken]

Awesome Nick, but the post of Smeagol kinda freaked me out as I was scrolling down to your post! :E 8O

Instead doing the comparisons with freaky Smeagol you should at least give us an attractive female, Liv Tyler from the first movie, or Leeloo from the 5th Element. :B

Congrats, hope to follow soon in a few months when my new house is done!

BTW, what tipped the scales between the Z3 and the AE700U for you?

~Josh

[Nick M]

Josh - Hahaha! I'll use some shots with females next time around.
I decided on the Z3 because there were reports/reviews that the ae700u had some vertical banding issues, and that the smoothscreen technology gave the residual pixelation a wavy look which didn't excite me at all. It was also a couple hundred cheaper, and offered a design that allows the end user to clean the LCD panels. The Z3 also has a very highly regarded scaler/processor.
----------
I spent alot of time playing around with the Z3 yesterday. Switching between AVIA, FInding Nemo, LOTR: ROTK, and Sideways I tried various preset tunes, as well as some of my own.

I really can't do anything serious until I get my HDMI cable though. The 36' $1.99 composite cable which has two unions in it definetly does not bring the best out of the Z3. I temporarily moved the DVD-2910 next to it and used a short S-Video cord which was a definite improvement. With the long composite cable and 480i output of the DVD-2910 I'm getting some noise around white objects (not due to sharpness setting), and there is what I believe is called "crushing" around objects with a deep black background (such as in the Fish Are Friends meeting in chapter 8 of Finding Nemo). The S-Video cable eliminated that whitish noise and slightly improved the crushing. I'm looking forward to ordering/receiving a high-quality HDMI cable this Thursday the 18th. Then I can really take advantage of the Z3's capabilities which has a highly regarded processing ability (scaling, etc).

84" may be a bit big for my 8' eyeball to screen distance. I can barely see the screendoor (if I focus on it), but even scaled DVD resolution at this size/viewing distance is pushing it with some films. I'm used to watching DVDs on a 20" 1600x1200 LCD w/Power DVD... :B After seeing Sauron on 84", I don't think I'd want to see him at 72" anymore though. I also notice that as you enlarge the display, the rate at which the quality decreases becomes less and less. 72" is definetly sharper than 84", but 96" really isn't that much worse than 84". Interesting...

By ever so slightly de-focusing the PJ any visible screen door effect is eliminated, and the picture gains a slightly softer film quality which seems to increase the watchability with some tough scenes (such as small bright objects in a dark setting). The above screen shots of LOTR: ROTK have this slight de-focus.

I've got the Contrast/Brightness/Sharpness/Saturation/Hue settings down, but still working on making more detailed adjustment using the individual adjustable RGB color slides (which apparently is more accurate than using the simpler Saturation/Hue controls).

I really can't decide between Classic Cinema White (G1.0) and High Contrast Gray (G0.8 ). Blacks look so much better with the gray screen, and the picture for some reason appears a bit smoother. The colors definetly take a hit though. The reef scenes in Finding Nemo don't have the same pop as they do with a white screen. 90% of scenes look better on the gray screen though, especially darker scenes.

Anyhoo, thats a taste of what I've been playing with. I'll have some screen shots and more chit-chat later tonight or tomorrow.

[aud19]

Tough call on the screens their Nick, but you said it yourself, 90% look better on the grey....

Does your Z3 have a "low power" mode and/or adjustable iris? You may be able to get better blacks off the G1.0 screen utilizing some of those and hopefully keep more of the colour saturation you're looking for? Also how long do you plan on keeping this projector before upgrading? I mean a 3 chip DLP with even better blacks than todays DLP FP's will be avialable for fairly cheap in a couple/three years so maybe you keep the white so you don't have to upgrade your screen a couple years from now...? Just some things to ponder

[ekkoville]

Nick, have you given any thought to getting an ISF Certified calibration tech to tweak it for you? Maybe it is not worth the money, but I have read a few posts around that suggest it is a Must do.

[Nick M]

Received the 40' HDMI cable. Nothing special exterior wise, but the cable is thick/heavy which is always a good sign in long cable runs. After trying it out just on my wall, all I can say is that if you have the option to run HDMI, do it! The decrease in noise is incredible. I see no "crushing" around objects in dark scenes now, and that blur and/or pixelation around objects in highcontrast scenes has vanished.

And I went with the...
Carada 84" Criterion 1.78:1 w/High Contrast Gray Material



I ordered the screen from Carada around the same time last Thursday. They eMailed a receipt and my bank has locked out the funds, but I haven't received a shipping notice yet. Hopefully it will be on Mon/Tue or I will have to give'em a call. Can't wait to get it all setup. I'll be sure to post pictures and opinions when it's all up and going.

Jason - I run the Z3 lamp in Low, and adjust the Iris to get the best blacks I can. It still didn't lend the realism I wanted with the 1.0 Gain screen unfortunately. My colors will suffer some, but it's worth it in the end for the excellent blacks and contrast.

Ekko - I'll be tuning it myself. It's really not all that difficult with Avia, the product manuals, a 6-pack, and a Sunday afternoon. :T

[Josh Wilken]

Excellent, Nick- now when you get that screen in I expect some nice shots of some good lookin' women to show that new screen and HDMI cable off. No more wierdo smeagol! :gah:

What's next after the screen? Acoustic treatments or seating?

Cheers-

~Josh

[Dean McManis]

The screen looks promising. I understand that some people don't like gray screens, but I've had mine for several years now and the colors and whites are great, along with better blacks and shadow detail than conventional white screens.

[Nick M]

Ok guys, have everything hooked up and calibrated.






(note: these images seem to be pushing red a bit. Actual reading is <+5%)

To review, my Video path is...

Denon DVD-2910 Universal Player
HDMI Cable
Sanyo PLV-Z3 Projector (1280x720 3 Chip LCD)
Carada 84" Criterion Screen w/ 0.8 Gain High Contrast Grey Material

To start off, I'm glad I bought a PJ setup over a 50" 720p Plasma. There's simply no comparison to a big 84" image from 8' away. It was also cheaper in the long run saving me well over $1k.

Dark scenes/films require the elimination of most ambient light for that plasma-type brightness. I have four huge windows in my room which are covered with thick black curtains. Light still spills over the top and around the edges, but even with the doorway open letting in light from the kitchen, I can achieve more than adequate darkness for a rich image. Of course it gets even better when watching at night with zero ambient light. Blacks are only as dark as the screen appears with the PJ shutoff. Bright whites on the screen are only as white as the screen is with the lights on. Knowing these two things, the greyscreen gives impressive blacks, but cut's down on the whitest whites a bit. The increase of black depth definetly increases the contrast ratio though. It also seems to smooth out the image. Color "snap" does seem to suffer a bit, but it's 90% acceptable.

The 2910 black setting was set to 'Enhanced" which outputs the deepest of blacks and whitest of whites. Output from the 2910 via HDMI is RGB 720p. I felt the 2910 scaler was better than the Sanyo's. The Z3 has a manual Iris which I closed as far as it would go. Other than the sharpness being cut to -4, pretty much all of the other stock settings were perfect. I boosted the Contrast a bit and decreased the brightness a bit, just a tad mind you. Lamp mode is on low.

I ended up with a +5% red, and -5% blue, with green at an even neutral using AVIA. I'm going to experiment a bit more to see if I can get this exactly neutral. It looks damn near perfect now though, so I'm in no rush.

Another trick which works excellent is slightly defocusing the image. I'm talking very slightly. I can't see the actual gaps between pixels from my seat, but with the focus completely sharp I can notice the limitations of DVD resolution during complex scenes with lots of small objects. Ever so slightly defocusing blends the edges of each pixel with the next giving a filmlike quality to the image. It also seems to help when viewing poor transfers, and makes ultrasharp digital animation even more breathtaking.

Going with an HDMI cable is an absolute improvemnet over a composite cable too! Not sure of it's gains over other methods though. I'd bet DVI looks equally impressive. Every aspect of the image is improved, and it's more than marginal. I'd even go as far as saying that it's even more important than a screen.

My A/V setup is finally complete. All I have left to get now is three chairs/ottomans to replace my fugly couch.

The PJ/Screen/Cable was only US$2600.

[Azeke]

Beautiful job Nick, I know you are proud. Please continue to provide your input, I will be upgrading shortly and can utilize your experiences to prevent any unnecessary pitfalls.

Thanks,

Azeke

[Dean McManis]

Awesome Nicholas! I'm glad to see this all come together.
Thanks again for the update.

-Dean.

[mark4x4]

I also looked at getting the Sanyo Z3, Panny AE700, or SP5000. And I ended up getting the SP5000. I'm VERY pleased with the projector, but I would have really been tempted by the AE700 if I could have found it then for under $2000.

And similarly, if I could have bought a 720p DLP projector with comparable specs for only $500 more, I would have jumped at it. But all of the 720p DLP models were between $1500-$3500 more at the time.

And the one flaw of the LCD SP5000 (pixel gap) is not going to be an issue on a 72" screen. It only showed up for me because I'm projecting onto a 180" screen, and was viewing from 14' away.

Hi Dean,

I'm ready to take the plunge for a PJ, but still doing allot of research work, mainly reading right now.

I noticed that you live in Santa Clara and I live in San Jose. I've been to Century Stereo and Bay Area Audio but they have nothing to audition in the $2000-$3500 price range. Do you know of any dealers in the area that have FP on display in that price range?

I would like to compare an LCD to a DLP unit before making a decision on what to purchase. Right now, I feel that's my main issue I need to figure out.

If you have any suggestion of any dealers that have a good selection of PJ in the Bay Area, I'd appreciate it if you let me know.

Regards,
Mark