Runco anounces new affordable Front DLP projo

[Claude D D]

Runco is bringing out a new front projo (CL-410) with the 1024x576 DLP chip that will be priced at $3499 US and $4499 Cdn. :T
http://www.runco.com/news_pressrel_pr010805c.html

[JonMarsh]

Press releases are so funny to read... how many times did they use "cutting-edge" in the text?

It is very affordable for a Runco, but the Matterorn DLP chip (1024X576 16:9) is NOT exactly what I would call cutting edge, but for a value oriented DLP projector, it's a fair choice... a bit higher pixel density than 858X480, but also prone to scaling artefacts, as it's hard to go from 480P to 576 P cleanly- either you have to filter and soften a bit to avoid moire, or you try to retain detail, with some occational unpleasant side effects. Or you have to have a scaler with a lot of taps both horizontally and vertically. Or upscale, then down coonvert.

This would be a good projector option for widescreen PAL, considering the native resolution.

~Jon

[Cowanrg]

John,

im very familiar with runco stuff, being a runco dealer, and this excites me a whole lot. we have a couple of their projectors on display that use the older DLP chipsets. to many they are old and obselete. still, they trounce the competition that uses the "new" better chips. its amazing how they can truly exploit and squeeze every last bit out of the TI chips. i would take a 2-generation old DLP runco over a brand new other brand any day of the week.

[Doop]

If it wouldn't give away any trade secrets, how does the retail price Runco quotes relate to the price a real person is likely to pay in a real store?

[Cowanrg]

i wouldnt expect to pay much below 10% off.

but chances are, if you are interested in runco, price isnt your main concern, you are more interested in picture quality, so you are willing to pay a bit more. dealers dont typically wheel and deal with runco. so certainly dont expect to get below $3k.

[George Bellefontaine]

I wouldn't doubt for a moment the Runco quality, but 1024 x 576 at $3495 is questionable for anyone buying a dlp PJ right now. Both Sharp and Toshiba are bringing out 1280 x 720 dlp projectors at $3495. How good they are, of course, is yet to be seen.

[Brandon B]

You are not just buying a PJ from Runco. Their service and followup support is far better than the CE giants.

For the budget conscious, you forgo those to get more bang per $. But for those who do NOT want to worry they will have support issues and were only looking to spend $3500, there you go.

BB

[Claude D D]

Just got ours in the store and hooked up last night.All I can say is WOW typical Runco quality.This thing is built like a tank.I would say it weighs about 25 lbs.Has a all metal case sealed optics,2 component video inputs,DVI(but no HDMI) etc.The picture has way more punch than the Sony HS50 and retails for $500 Cdn less.Will post more after a longer evaluation.But so far highly recommended. :T

[AndrewM]

You are not just buying a PJ from Runco. Their service and followup support is far better than the CE giants.

For the budget conscious, you forgo those to get more bang per $. But for those who do NOT want to worry they will have support issues and were only looking to spend $3500, there you go.

On a sub $4k projector what kind of service am I going to get? More importantly, how is it going to be different than buying a Toshiba or Sharp? We're not talking about buying a $50k projector here (where the markup from dealer to consumer is more than the low-cost projector in total) where the dealer will be your best friend for the next month while everything is being setup, or will be ultra-helpful in post sales.

But then again I haven't seen it, so maybe it is "that good".

Andrew

[Adz]

Of course there is always the Runco SC-1 HT Projector which retails for $250,000 and weighes a mere 350 lbs !

Hey Cowanrg, does that price include the outboard processor?

[Claude D D]

They've got it up on their site now. :T This is a sweet Home Theater projo not some modded plastic case presentation piece.After seeing it first hand I can tell you nothing in its price range(or even considerably higher)can come close in build quality.You gotta see one.
http://www.runco.com/reflection.html

[Claude D D]

I wouldn't doubt for a moment the Runco quality, but 1024 x 576 at $3495 is questionable for anyone buying a dlp PJ right now. Both Sharp and Toshiba are bringing out 1280 x 720 dlp projectors at $3495. How good they are, of course, is yet to be seen.

Hey George,
Can't speak for the the Toshiba but the Runco has a much nicer picture with DVD's than the Sharp.The Runco has their Vivix processor onboard.The Sharp cut their price buy only having very basic processing onboard and no lens shift option.So unless you have a external processor(iScan DVDO etc.)or a DVD player with a good chipset and don't want to watch any standard def tv forget about the Sharp.The Runco also has vertical and horizontal lens shift.
I've seen some of the higher resolution projo's that look terrible with Sports HD broadcasts that have a lot of motion(blocking artifacts etc.)The Runco is rock solid.
If I hadn't bought my SP4805 less than a year ago, I'd be buying one of these babies.

[ekkoville]

Man, I had my eyes on the Sony HS-51 or maybe shelling out for the Yamaha LPX-510. Now this is making it more difficult. Is the Sony or Yamaha comparable in picture quality?

[Shane Martin]

At first I was a bit befuddled by the 576 resolution but it appears the Scaler is the saving grace here. Then again I wonder if the other higher resolution for the same money projectors like the Sharp combined with an IScan HD would balance that out and move it in favor of the higher resolution 720P DLP chipsets?

[ekkoville]

Good point Shane. I read a review on the HS-51 and with an iScan or other scaler the picture was even better but then the value of the machine seems to go down by the time you start adding extras. What is your thought on 540 resolution pj's that are half that of 1080i inputs. I heard that it is easier to scale down and creates a better image although it did not say how good a scaled down 720 picture would be.

[Shane Martin]

You can never have enough IMHO especially with 1080P on the horizon. Granted paying $3k for a projector is a compromise but I feel buying a 576P resolution projector is pushing it, great scaler or not.

At the $4k pricepoint, I'd either get a 720P DLP or the Sony HS51(if you can't deal with rainbows). I can see them but not hardly at all if any on the newer 720P DLP Pj's like the Sharp for instance. It's the budget ones like the 4805 where I have issues. LCD's OTOH, I have bigger issues with as far as screendoor and poor blacks. The better DLP's have fixed the black level issues I had and I don't see screendoor on them at all.

I guess it's a matter of "pick your poisen".

[Brandon B]

On a sub $4k projector what kind of service am I going to get? More importantly, how is it going to be different than buying a Toshiba or Sharp? We're not talking about buying a $50k projector here (where the markup from dealer to consumer is more than the low-cost projector in total) where the dealer will be your best friend for the next month while everything is being setup, or will be ultra-helpful in post sales.

Actually, I would bet you would get something like that level of service. There are a few dealers who might give you something like that with a Toshiba or Sharp as well, but I'd bet the majority do not. But since the profit margin on the Runco is certainly much healthier, and that service is a large part of what Runco's name is built on, you are still going to see much more willing hand holding than you would with a comparable performance unit at half the price. And probably farther down the road too.

Sounds like to you this is not worth the extra money. Which I fully empathize with, as it is not to me either. But there are those for whom it is.

BB

[George Bellefontaine]

Hey, Erik, you mentioned the Yamaha LPX 510. I happen to own that baby. I also own the NEC HT1000, a killer dlp projector with terrific contrast and blacklevels, even though it is only 576 in widescreen mode. Now the Yamaha produces one beautiful picture for an lcd PJ, but it lacks the contrast of the NEC, and probably any other mid priced dlp. The Sony also has a killer picture, but after I demoed it there was something about it I didn't like when I compared it against the LPX 510, even though the Sony beat the Yammy hands down in the contrast department. Now I also wasn't too fussy about the Panny 700, which I also demoed before buying the Yamaha, which just happened to be more expensive that both the Sony and the Panasonic. I won't say what it was I didn't like about the Sony and the Panny because maybe it was just something that bothered me personally. There are many happy owners of the 700 ( many are members here ) and of the HS 51, as well.

[ekkoville]

The Yamaha is the only one recently I have seen. The Sony is just word of mouth reviews so far. But I like the pic Sony puts out. If it is like the 40" tube I have, great. I saw a Runco in action last year but don't know which model. Fatastic to say the least. The Panny would be nice to see, but I don't know where yet. KevinP may arrange for a Studio Experience 50HD demo for me, but that may be a bit high for price. The Yamaha may be too good to pass up.

[George Bellefontaine]

Well, I'll say this, Erik: If I only had one PJ in my home theater and it was the Yamaha LPX 510, I would be quite happy for some time to come. I don't know much about the SE 50HD, but I do understand it is available at a good price these days. OTOH, if the Yammy is available at a good price, maybe you should snap it up. It has a lot of great extras for those who like to tweak, and all the reviews I have read say it is spot on at D6500 color temp out of the box, which is great for those who don't want to tweak. It also has good contrast and blacklevels, though not as good as the Panny and Sony, which have a dynamic iris. The Yamha has a manual iris with various settings, as well as various lamp settings. And like the Sony and Panny, the Yamha has both vertical and horizontal lens shift.

[ekkoville]

I guess the best thing is to just keep looking. My local dealer had a Runco rep in yesterday but I couldn't make it in. I wanted too see the CL-410 and ask some questions, sorry I missed him.

[George Bellefontaine]

Taking your time isn't a bad idea, Erik. That's a lot of scratch you'll be laying out.

[Claude D D]

Our Runco CL-410 had an unfortunate accident.We have 10' ceilings in our store and were repositioning the 410 when the support cable holding the suspended ceiling let go.The 410 fell glancing off our installers head(the 410 weighs 25lbs) and went tumbling about 8' to the ground!We figured it would be toast.But much to our suprize it actually started up and put out a picture! h: The lense did shift slightly in the case ,the ir cover popped off and there is a small dent in the unit,so it has to go back to Runco for some adjustments.Amazing!!I've seen projo's that have fallen from less than 4' that were totaled.Like I said this machine is very well built. :T

[George Bellefontaine]

Well built indeed, Claude.

[aud19]

I'd have a tough time paying that $$ for that res, Runco or not.... I think George should just gently pack up his Yamaha and send it on over to me :P

[George Bellefontaine]

I think George should just gently pack up his Yamaha and send it on over to me :P

Heh, heh

[aud19]

Heh, heh

Is that a yes?!?! :B

[George Bellefontaine]

Is that a yes?!?! :B

Double heh, heh. Yes, Jason, that is a no. Sorry ol' buddy.