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  • John Holmes
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Aug 2000
    • 2703

    Club M&K

    After reading that M&K would be the first to enter the "THX Select" speaker race with a speaker that would MSRP at $299.00, I couldn't wait to hear what it would sound like. I beat feet to my local M&K dealer to audition the new system.

    Being told for some time that "THX" speakers don't do music well, I was prepared to not be excited. I took some of my favorite cd's with me. Oh my goodness!!! Could this be true...were these speakers producing great sounding music? Yes! But, this could have been just the room and associated equipment. With that in mind I next listened to the car chase scene in "Ronin". Hmmmmm, that sounded pretty darn good too. Much better that my current speaker set up.

    Needles to say, I ended up bringing home the THX Select LCR 750 speakers. What I heard in the store was not unique. In my home, the 750's continued to show that they are a surprisingly good sounding speaker.

    I also listened to all the M&K speakers (as well as other brands) while at the store. This was before the K series and Xenon were around. I was impressed with ever speaker this company offered. Most of the speakers from other companies ranged from good to great sounding. However, I really don't think there was a more "accurate" sounding speaker (from any other brand) in the entire store. And that's what I was looking for.

    Now, I'll admit, there are a ton of other speakers that look much nicer. And there are just as many that sound great and look nice that I would love to own (Martin Logans, Maggies, SF to name a few). However, I wanted to own a nice " THX" rcvr/speaker combo that does a nice job of reproducing movies and music. These speakers filled that bill nicely!




    "I came here, to chew bubble gum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubble gum!!!" My DVD's
    "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"
  • Jariten
    Senior Member
    • Jun 2000
    • 271

    #2
    8)

    M&K ..Oh yes !!!

    =))))
    should be receiving my MPS-2525 shortly...
    *drool*
    It's Upgrade season again!!!

    Comment

    • John Holmes
      Moderator Emeritus
      • Aug 2000
      • 2703

      #3
      Hello jariten! And welcome to HT Guide!

      I share your enthusiasm about these great speakers. Please let us know how things come together once you get them (inquiring minds want to know! :LOL: ).

      I would love to get this thread to become a place where we can discuss this wonderful company.

      If you know of any others that would like a great place to hang out and talk about their M&K's, please let them know what we are trying to do here.

      Have a great day!




      "I came here, to chew bubble gum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubble gum!!!" My DVD's
      "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

      Comment

      • Jariten
        Senior Member
        • Jun 2000
        • 271

        #4
        Hi John !

        well it all started during a small show in Akihabara where some copmanies were demoing their DVD players and other Audio Equipment

        Then I started to browse the web...
        wandered along in a lot of HT forums...
        and When Lex and Matt had this one going...I was in too...
        =) (June 2000 !)

        Anyway,
        Getting back to M&K.
        Why did I chose M&K and not something else...

        One of the rooms was setup with the S150 THX series and MX5000THXMKII Sub...

        other rooms used Yamaha (with their flagship receiver) and a SW-1000 as a sub (don't remember the model of Yamaha speakers they were using..but they had a 7.1 kind of Setup...

        Denon had set up a DVD-5000, the 5600 receiver and the M&K speaker setup....

        of course the DENON room was packed....
        and the Yamaha ..well I was able to squeeze in with my wife...
        (Important !! all upgrades need wife approval)

        Anyway....so we go through the demo (all rooms were demoing the same material) and we were ..yeah well..ok...not bad....
        (at the time I was using a 5.1 setup with a Pioneer AVS-D3X first Dolby Digital receiver and a SW-500 sub still have that and 5 speakers that were home made (sold those)).

        So after the firts demo...ok ..fun...the speakers were floorstanding models...and would end up taking a lot of room in our Japanese apartment..(yeah ..we live in Tokyo)...
        so it was a bit of a nono for us...

        Ok time for the Denon demo...

        as I said ..same material than the Yamaha demo...
        now when it started.....the subwoofer kicked 1/2 of the audience out...
        it was tight....and just majestuous....
        The room was a square room about 25' x 25' with a ceiling that was about 8'.
        now the difference was amazing....
        These "tiny" S-150 speakers and that Sub....were just amazing....
        The DVD player was simple...and Amazing too...
        (DVD-5000)

        So that day I had my boss call up Nippon Columbia so that we could go and have a private Demo in their listening room.
        And they set me up with the S-150 and MX5000 THX MKII sub...
        Projection was a Barco 1209 receiver was the top of the line (120-150W/channel)

        I brought my movies....and of course....I didn't want to leave....O_O

        SInce then....I have slowly been upgrading.....I have all 3 front M&K 150 and will soon be getting the MPS-2525 surround tripoles (same as S-250 tripoles but 300$ cheaper because no THX logo in front)
        And the next one will be the MPS-5410 (same as the MX5000THX MKII but withouth the THX logo) they have the M&K professional logo on them.

        This is my current setup :

        LCR : M&K S150THX
        Surr : B&W DS6 (needs replacing)
        Sub : Yamaha SW-500 (needs replacing)
        Pre/pro : Parasound AVC 2500 (planning to replace it with the HALO C1 very soon)
        Amp : Parasound HCA-2205A
        RPTV Pionner 50" 16:9 won't upgrade until I move out
        DVD player : Denon DVD-5000

        interconnects and AC cord....all hand buiilt by me...after testing many different cable suppliers and connectors....
        o_O

        I calibrated the system using the Microphone and the settings that were given to me by one of the designers of the AVC-2500.

        It's truly amazing what we can obtain with these M&K speakers...


        Enjoy.

        T.

        Comment

        • John Holmes
          Moderator Emeritus
          • Aug 2000
          • 2703

          #5
          Great story jariten!

          It almost mimics the situtaution under which I auditioned mine as well. It's kind of nice when you audition speakers with a few others and they can support what you are hearing.

          You mentioned the floor space of your apartment. And how tower type speakers would not be a good fit. With this understanding, can I assume that you chose not to use stands with your speakers? I ask because, reading M&K's site and speaking with one of their engineers one thing has always confused me.

          Becuase of the THX designed limited vertical wave. Placing the speakers at the proper height is even more important. I was wondering how you dealt with this? Also, (this is where it get's contradictive) M&K sells a laser pointer to align your speaker to prefection. Which is what I understand should be done for proper HT reproduction. However, if THX speakers are designed with a wide side-to-side dispersion pattern, should they be aimed directly at the listening position? The engineer that I spoke with from M&K even mentioned that minimum toe-in (no more than 4 degrees) would be his recomendation. But if direct aiming at the listening postion is the "best" for HT, what effect does this have for those (like me) that systems double as their music system too?

          I was just wondering if you have dealt with any of these issues.

          I like your idea on the surrounds. My surrounds are THX (Fosgate Audionics). Though I am quite happy with how well they blend with my LCR's, my surrounds are huge! At approx. 22"x14"x10" (H/W/D) and around 38 pounds they tend to get noticed. So I too have begun considering updating to tripole speakers. I'm not sure when I will make the move but, I'm hoping to get a nice christmas present! :B




          "I came here, to chew bubble gum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubble gum!!!" My DVD's
          "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

          Comment

          • Jariten
            Senior Member
            • Jun 2000
            • 271

            #6
            :LOL:

            I do currently have stands for the fronts and surrounds....

            I didn't know about the 4deg toe in for the front speakers..
            I know that the L/R sS150 speakers have a slightly angled baffle...
            IF you add a bit more angle...I'm not sure the effect will be good..especially if you are going to listen to music also...

            I noticed that laser pointer thingy....I'm going to discuss with SONA here in Japan . They distribute the M&K pro products here. Maybe they can show me how to align everything once my surrounds arrive. I would be curious..to see ow they do it...

            Hmm what else...

            since I'll be going with 7.1 soon....I'm wondering what 2 Channel amp to get....Parasound is kind of RARE here.....so...maybe a Proceed HPA-2 for the surrounds...I'll go and see what I can find....^^

            I'll probably order the Halo C-1 next week or something...
            Also I was kind oif designing in my head some sool HT setup...
            as soon as I put it on paper I'll scan it in a share ^_^;;;

            I have some crazy ideas...especially for us in Japan...because with 3 cats it's not always easy !

            Have a good week-end

            T.

            Comment

            • John Holmes
              Moderator Emeritus
              • Aug 2000
              • 2703

              #7
              T.,

              I am enjoying my weekend, thank you! I trust that you are doing the same. 8)

              This is a copy of the e-mail that I received from M&K regarding toe-in and placement:



              John,

              You yourself can "hear" the tweeter dispersion by selecting white noise (like
              interchannel FM noise) turn the treble up some what and turn the bass down all
              the way, turn off the subwoofer and only connect ONE speaker at a time. The
              resulting audio splay should be as clear as aiming a theatrical lighting unit.

              What's critical is the VERTICAL angle. The 750 series, and any speaker with only
              one tweeter is not NEARLY as critical as the multi-tweeter models where the high
              freq signals are coming off as a flat planar wavefront if you will, so the
              distances from EACH tweeter in the entire array to your nose (for example) have
              to be exactly the same for good imaging.

              Also, and this whole thing is a bit moot, the thx spec suggests that the signal
              NOT bounce off the ceiling, although the whole premise of the SURROUNDS is that
              they DO bounce around so there is LESS localization with the surrounds and MORE
              localization with the fronts.

              A further problem is every mfgs digital pick-off of bass is somewhat different
              depending upon which digital processor the thx stuff is implemented in. Some are
              WAY sloppier and mushier than others. The older Lexicon being the worst
              offender, not only with their D/A circuitry but that completely annoying front
              speaker angle phase thing which CANNOT be turned off and NEVER sounds right.
              With other mfgs systems, it is the "speaker distance" setting which is the
              culprit. I'd suggest trying the LEAST distance possible first -- and setting
              them all the same -- and then "learn" how that sounds, and work outward from
              there.

              A further item is that Americans have typically placed their LR way too close
              together, probably because the TV was so small. American RECORDING/MIX engineers
              tyupically put the speakers WAY too far apart - like 90 degrees, so they can get
              definitive panning placement during a mix. Then there's the further problem that
              MOVIES are mixed with C for voice and LR for Music and Effects - there's never
              voice in LR except for reverb. In MUSIC the voice is ONLY LR and almost no one
              uses the C because there never has been a Center channel before; it's always
              been a phantom center. So you see we have an infinity of cross-related dilemmas.

              Here attached is an ITU chart which might help you. I personally suggest placing
              the LR a LITTLE bit further apart, like 70 - 75 degrees; this then makes the
              degree splay between L and Ls closer, like 70 degrees apart, which are what the
              LR is now. That gives you a very even surround coverage, especially when using
              M&K Tripoles, which are the best of both worlds, without being the worst of
              either world.

              As far as the toe-in goes, that's partially visually psychological. I would only
              suggest toeing them in a TINY bit, like 4 degrees, because the metal grille does
              the rest. However you can hear this as explained above, and experiment
              accordingly.

              Another trick: set your LR about 1 db LOW and set the C at 1/2 or 1 db HIGH
              after you do an SPL test with your Radio Shlock meter (set to C weighted SLOW).

              Let me know how you make out with your science projects.


              Regards,
              Barry

              Barry A. Ober
              Internet Services Systems Administrator
              Senior Audio Engineer
              Miller & Kreisel Sound Corp.

              www.mksound.com
              www.mkprofessional.com
              www.mkcdstore.com



              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "JOHN HOLMES"
              To:
              Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 5:59 PM



              Hello,

              I'm curious as to, how the L/R of the 750 THX system are designed to be
              position?


              My main usage is for Home Theater. I want to follow THX/Dolby guidelines of
              speaker placement. This giudline seems to favor toe-in for the left and
              right speaker. But, this seems to contradict the purpose of having a THX
              spec of wide horizontal dispersion. Also, with the angle of the tweeter in
              the 750 line, it to seems to favor 'No toe-in" by design.

              I understand that the final result of placement is room dependant. I would
              just like to know, what is the "prefered" choice from it's designed R&D?
              That would be my choice in my setup.

              Thanks for your time,

              John



              John T. Holmes
              jt357smoot@hotmail.com


              End of e-mail

              As you can see, he addresses the issues of having single tweeter speakers. as well as the multi-tweeter systems such as yours.

              Going with Barry's info, the results left my speakers 19" from the side walls. With 4ft between the left speaker and center channel. And of course the center and right speaker. I used little toe-in. And the soundstage was very immersing! I really felt a wave of info hitting me from everywhere. There was no "hole" in the sound between the side and center speakers.

              But, what I did notice after a few viewings of movies...My highs weren't as clear as when they only had 6ft seperating them. Also having a 32" display began to rear it's head. As the action on screen was not being accurately reproduced with this wider speaker placement. Now knowing that the speakers are to close to the side walls, I chose to try a different approach.

              This site http://www.cardas.com has some great info about speaker placement with various rooms. I employed the "rectangal room" theory and have been satisfied with the results. It put my L/R speakers much closer together, which gives me back all the detail but, it isn't nearly as involving as before. I will continue to play with my options.

              This ended up being much longer than I wanted so I'll beging to close. :LOL:

              I am interested in what SONA has to say as well.

              I've heard nothing but good things about the Halo line. But, the Proceed is a proven performer. Especially with low impedence speakers. I believe either to be solid choices.

              Ok, I'm backing away from the keyboard! :B

              Have a good weekend!




              "I came here, to chew bubble gum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubble gum!!!" My DVD's
              "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

              Comment

              • Jariten
                Senior Member
                • Jun 2000
                • 271

                #8


                Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

                I'm waiting for Mr Nakahara from SONA to get back to me...
                I want to go and see their 12.2 surround setup...

                I will have to look at the 750 series from M&K a bit more closer...
                as the S150 LCR that I have have a d'Apolitto array and the L&R are a matched pair.
                so when I put on some demo material...
                the front part is seamless...
                The sound pans from left to right and right to left without loss...it's pretty amazing....
                the DS-6 surrounds....even though designed for Dolby surround (pre DD and DTS speakers) do quite a good job...

                though I can hear the difference of tonality between the front and rear..
                (using the THX Demo Laserdisc WOW!)
                (please bear with me for the typos....)
                I'm surrounded by cats right now...so...

                ok...going to read the HALO C-1 manual now...
                (printed the one from the parasound site....)

                and I was talking with Lex about proceed amps...I might pick a couple for the surrounds we shall see what I can find on saturday...

                until next time...

                Have fun!

                Comment

                • Jariten
                  Senior Member
                  • Jun 2000
                  • 271

                  #9
                  :yeah:

                  Today I received my MPS-2525 !!!! (same as SS250MKII)

                  Now if the Halo C-1 would just get here ...

                  o_O

                  Comment

                  • John Holmes
                    Moderator Emeritus
                    • Aug 2000
                    • 2703

                    #10
                    :T ;h ;b>'> :dance:

                    This is great news. I know you are excited. Your setup is really begining to gel. The Halo will be a great addition.

                    Let us know when you crank it all up!




                    "I came here, to chew bubble gum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubble gum!!!" My DVD's
                    "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

                    Comment

                    • Jariten
                      Senior Member
                      • Jun 2000
                      • 271

                      #11
                      Well..
                      The C-1 should be here on the 8/9th of July
                      Got to get some cables from Lex too.

                      and I have to go to Korea for work !!
                      w00t !!

                      anyway...I have to set a webpage up and show the setup....
                      ^_^

                      Comment

                      • John Holmes
                        Moderator Emeritus
                        • Aug 2000
                        • 2703

                        #12
                        It seems that M&K has a new speaker which contains all 5 surround channels in one box. Now this is something I would love to hear. Anyway, here is the link: http://www.mksound.com/whatsnew.html




                        "I came here, to chew bubble gum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubble gum!!!" My DVD's
                        "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

                        Comment

                        • Jariten
                          Senior Member
                          • Jun 2000
                          • 271

                          #13
                          :LOL:


                          weird...
                          it's upgrade season again!

                          Time for the good ole' MX 5000THX sub...
                          currently shopping around...

                          =)

                          Yes ..M&K have some interesting products out there


                          =)

                          Comment

                          • Jariten
                            Senior Member
                            • Jun 2000
                            • 271

                            #14
                            ordered the sub...
                            w00t


                            ^_^V
                            it'll be in storage for a while...until I get myself to NY
                            *grin*

                            Comment

                            • John Holmes
                              Moderator Emeritus
                              • Aug 2000
                              • 2703

                              #15
                              Hello Jariten.

                              I hear nothing but solid reviews for the 5000. I'm sure it will fill your needs! Let us know when you get to play with it.




                              "I came here, to chew bubble gum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubble gum!!!" My DVD's
                              "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

                              Comment

                              • Jariten
                                Senior Member
                                • Jun 2000
                                • 271

                                #16
                                unfortunately.not until we move intpo the new house......
                                Late July maybe?
                                we shall see ^_^;;;
                                It's going to be in storage at a friends place until then...
                                oh well...

                                I've put other things on the grill...

                                just bought an Accuphase P500L power amp so that my wife can have her own 2 channel listening system...
                                (planning to have the HT in a basement of course...
                                ^_^;;;

                                output is about 315W/channel in 8Ohm....
                                weighs in at 71lbs
                                and it's bigger than the HCA-2205 !

                                o_O

                                Comment

                                • John Holmes
                                  Moderator Emeritus
                                  • Aug 2000
                                  • 2703

                                  #17
                                  unfortunately.not until we move intpo the new house......
                                  I'm in the same boat. I have a new 52" RCA HDTV sitting in the box(with my wife in Texas). I can't open it until I make the move to San Antonio in about two months.

                                  But, at least you have a another new toy to play with! 8) The M&K will be jealous! :P
                                  "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

                                  Comment

                                  • Jariten
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Jun 2000
                                    • 271

                                    #18
                                    Yep...
                                    I'm actually using the Accuphase P500-L with my L/R M&K speakers...

                                    it's just amazing....

                                    The CD player is directly connected to the Amp.
                                    it has a variable output level control...so I don't need a pre-amp ...

                                    back to listening...

                                    ^_^V

                                    2 months go by quickly ^_^;;;;

                                    Comment

                                    • Chetk
                                      Senior Member
                                      • May 2004
                                      • 247

                                      #19
                                      I have the M&K S-150P's all the way around and the MX-5000. I'm using the C1 as the Pre-amp as well.

                                      I have NEVER had a problem with the MX-5000. I love it's output. The crossover point between in the 150's and the 5000 is seamless and the sub is difficult to locate in the room with your eyes closed.

                                      Since the M&K system is the first surround sound I've ever owned, the only thing I really have to compare it to is the theater. Although, I'll admit that the M&K setup sounds kick-@$$, I don't know that I'm getting my money's worth. Having said that, I installed EVERYTHING myself. I have used the C1 auto-calibration and tweeked the bass and treble to my liking. I used the C1 settings to turn up just the sub output since I was getting virtually no sub output with it after a standard C1 autocal.

                                      I'm not sure if it's my lack of knowledge and experience, but I just can't hear or understand "emersive (or full) sound stages" I don't even know what to listen for. It sounds great to me, but I somehow have the feeling that it could be better.

                                      I know that speaker placement is probably not my problem. I have followed all of the "rules" outlined above by Barry. I used the exact XLR connections and cable suggested by Barry. I have read all of the documentation in the 150 manual, the 5000 manual and the C1 manual.

                                      Maybe I'm just overly demanding?! But I just feel that I could get more out of the equipment that I own.

                                      Please don't get me wrong, this is a killer system. I'm just wondering if it could be better. Especially with the amount of money spent on the system. :wink:

                                      Comment

                                      • John Holmes
                                        Moderator Emeritus
                                        • Aug 2000
                                        • 2703

                                        #20
                                        Welcome to the Guide ChetK.

                                        I'm glad to see a fellow M&K enthusiast!

                                        Barry seems to know his stuff. I know that I'm really happy with the results in my system.

                                        As for you wondering if you are getting the sound that you should...I think most of us are always wondering this same thing more often than we care too. I read an interview with one of the leads at THX (can't recall his name). One of the points he made was (paraphrasing) " THX doesn't care if you think it should be louder or softer, blah. blah,blah...as long as it is accurate." I have no clue if what you are hearing in your system is accurate or not. However, I would guess that it maybe closer to being right than wrong. As you have stated you have speaker placement knocked out correctly. Unless you have an hardware issue, calibration should be correct. Being that it is your system, if you feel something is still not to your liking, you may want to bump up or down what you feel is lacking.

                                        If I may ask, How long have you had this system? It maybe as simple as getting use to it's sound.

                                        Lastly, you mentioned that you followed Barry's outline above. I recall him making a big point of making sure that speakers with multiple tweeter arrays, need to be aimed at the sweet spot. I don't know if yours are but, if not, you may wish to try this.
                                        Last edited by John Holmes; 12 May 2004, 20:11 Wednesday.
                                        "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

                                        Comment

                                        • Chetk
                                          Senior Member
                                          • May 2004
                                          • 247

                                          #21
                                          Welcome to the Guide ChetK.
                                          Thanks!

                                          As for you wondering if you are getting the sound that you should...I think most of us are always wondering this same thing more often than we care too.
                                          This is like a support group. I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one.

                                          (paraphrasing) " THX doesn't care if you think it should be louder or softer, blah. blah,blah...as long as it is accurate." I have no clue if what you are hearing in your system is accurate or not.
                                          I feel as though I am hearing accurate information. In fact, I bought the system for accuracy and not POWER. Although the system is a pretty powerful system. Barry told me that the content creators, directors, DVD Post production studios, have said that they listened to their content on M&K after mastering their final product, and they heard things that they didn't even hear when they mastered the content. Now THAT'S crazy. :T

                                          I would guess that it maybe closer to being right than wrong.
                                          I would too. But I still think it could be better. I have read reviews of these speakers where people said that it was like a religous experience. I mean, I like the way they sound, but it doesn't make me want to cry or anything. I was also told that it would sound like the actor is in the room with me. I can tell it's coming out of a speaker. I also thought that I would hear things and look over in that direction to see what it was (even though it was coming out of the speaker). I may have done that once or twice in the 4 months that I've owned them. I don't know...I just feel like they could be "more accurate". How's that for an oxy-moron?

                                          I recall him making a big point of making sure that speakers with multiple tweeter arrays, need to be aimed at the sweet spot. I don't know if yours are but, if not, you may wish to try this.
                                          Yes. I bought the wall tilt brackets with the speakers. The 150P's have a red LED light in the center of the speaker. The light is the brightest when the speaker is pointing directly at the listening position. I have all five speakers pointing at the sweet spot. I can definitely tell a difference between sitting in the sweet spot and moving to another location in the room. I guess that means I have the speakers set up correctly.

                                          I think the speakers are set up properly, I'm just wondering if I'm getting the most out of the speakers with the settings that I have on the C1. When I installed my car audio, I bought some of the best competition equipment. I tweeked it to the best of my knowledge. Then, I went up to my local dealer (I used to work there as well so I know them on a personal level), but they used their years of experience to tweek it and it sounded 10 times better than it did when I did it. I was amazed at how good it sounded. So, maybe I just need to get an authorized dealer to come over and tweek my HT setup. I don't have a problem paying for something like that if I can hear a difference.

                                          Maybe I can get Barry over if he should ever pass through Houston. :B
                                          Last edited by Chetk; 13 May 2004, 10:42 Thursday.

                                          Comment

                                          • Jariten
                                            Senior Member
                                            • Jun 2000
                                            • 271

                                            #22
                                            Hi ChetK

                                            I know exactly what kind of sound you are looking for.
                                            It seems that you have set your system up perfectly...
                                            Speakers pointing to the sweet spot et all...but still not gettting that WOW sound..humm

                                            I have S150 LCR and MPS2525 Surrounds (will be getting SS-150MKII for rears soon) and the MX500THX sub is already in storage...^^;;

                                            Anyway..back to the sound issue..
                                            I have a C1 with a HCA2205A. I was able to do A/B testing at Nihon Columbia (Denon) prior to my purchase...and their setup was just awesome...
                                            it took time between tests...but I would always go back to the M&K speakers.

                                            Now...Could the Interconnects between your C! -> speakers be affecting the sound?

                                            I assume you did the Autocal and calibrated the distances and gain for all channels...

                                            Sound treatment in your HT room?

                                            just going on wild guesses here....


                                            what's missing exactly? Imaging? soudstage depth?

                                            I know it' snot easy to explain like that on a forum..^^;;;

                                            just trying to get to the bottom ...

                                            Happy listening

                                            Comment

                                            • Chetk
                                              Senior Member
                                              • May 2004
                                              • 247

                                              #23
                                              Hey Jariten,

                                              Thanks for brainstorming with me. :T

                                              It may be the room they're in (I know the room has a LOT to do with the sound too). I don't have any sound treatment at all. It's our living room and can't really change it cosmetically.

                                              The interconnects are DIY for the most part. I'm pretty confident it's not them.

                                              what's missing exactly? Imaging? soudstage depth?
                                              OK. That's the crazy thing. Since I'm kinda new at this surround sound stuff (meaning I don't have the experience that a pro does), I don't know how to identify imaging or soundstage depth. I know the sound is very "seamless" between all of the speakers. They're very clear and nothing gets distorted. Ever.

                                              One last thing I want to mention: I just finished watching The Matrix Reloaded on HBO in HD tonight and I was really blown away by the sound. The WOW factor was there. The car chase scene and the burly brawl scene were magnificent. The sub kicked in when it should, etc.

                                              I guess I just need that "peace of mind" that everything is performing at it's maximum quality. I'd also like to learn the difference between bad imaging v. good imaging and soundstage depth, etc. If I could just be a little more educated I think I'd do alright.

                                              I have tried using the Digital Video Essentials disc, but any time it gets REAL technical, it loses me. My level of knowledge when using these types of discs are basically this: When the speaker on the screen is highlighted, white noise should be coming out of that speaker. :B It's quite sad really. :cry:

                                              Comment

                                              • Jariten
                                                Senior Member
                                                • Jun 2000
                                                • 271

                                                #24
                                                ChetK...
                                                we are all here to learn ^_^V

                                                Concerning the room...
                                                I currently live in Japan (not for long anymore)...and my system has been in a
                                                8 x 10' room....Yes...that was the living room....
                                                what Ihad in there when I calibrated was : the 5 speakers..the sub..the AV rack under the projection screen, the projector..and the cat tree...

                                                the room has an overall strange shape as the tatami room kind of breaks into ...
                                                Anyway..the calibration went just great....
                                                (was using a Yamaha sub at the time..somthing fell in the kitchen)....*grin*

                                                Next step...listening to the setup calibrated and all...

                                                I used the Super Speedway DVD (THX) the sound was just amazing...we were sitting in the car with the driver....
                                                The sub did what it could ^^;;;;
                                                but we were present there on the racetrack with the drivers and cars...yeah...
                                                It was just amazing..clean ...
                                                The pan and surround where just ...*WoW*

                                                Now we went to the movie viewing....

                                                Das Boot....(special edition et all)

                                                Several times I had to get up and check if I had water dripping at home....
                                                it was actually the water dripping in the submarine. O_O


                                                BTW ...NOT a pro in surround stuff...
                                                I was basically buying the M&K just by reputation until I knew who was importing them to Japan...and I listened to them the evening on which I had ordered my system...
                                                ..

                                                Humm again..this is total amateur...But for Soundstage...Get a Good Jazz CD
                                                and listen try to imagine where the instruments are in your room
                                                I have been blow away by the S150s.

                                                I used Norah Jones 1st album, any tracks.
                                                and my new toy Accuphase P500L amp...CD player directly hooked to the Amp (I have variable output on it) ....and I sat there and thought....these are darn good...

                                                You can kind of position each instrument in the room you can amsot reach out to them....
                                                now coming back to your problem.,...
                                                (Not sure there is a problem in your system ^^)

                                                Maybe go to a store and try to demo a setup using a DVD you know well...
                                                try to pinpoint the differences...

                                                humm ...

                                                not sure what else to look at...

                                                *mumble*

                                                just read your first post....Using XLR's from C1 -> S150Ps.....so THAT makes sense that the connections between C1-> Speakers is out of the line of problems....

                                                Sooo...

                                                You seem to have placed and direct the speakers correctly...but still can't get this enveloppe of sound arround you...

                                                could you write down the settings of your speakers (Distance/level in the cal menu of the C1) ?
                                                I'm just wondering if.......
                                                ok this is what I talked about with the designers of the AVC2500 Pre/pro from Parasound...
                                                I was lacking soundstage depth etc etc....it souded really harsh...
                                                aftre discussing with the Finnish company that designed the decoder board in the Parasound AVC2500 they told me to try the following setup.
                                                Put all levels on the HCA2205A to 12o'clock (not in the THX position) and recalibrate...
                                                Did I get better results....YEAH
                                                way better
                                                Now the Design of the C1 is different..different DSP processor and all...and DAC's.....but still...I wonder if calibrating the C1 and setting your speaker's Input level to 1/2 instead of THX level wouldn't help?

                                                If you have a bit of time...try it out...just wondering.
                                                I have in fact calibrated my C1 while the HCA is only at 12o'clock on input sensitivity....

                                                just a though...


                                                ^_^;;;

                                                Happy listening

                                                Comment

                                                • John Holmes
                                                  Moderator Emeritus
                                                  • Aug 2000
                                                  • 2703

                                                  #25
                                                  Well Chetk, Jariten has covered all my other thoughts on the subject. I'm glad that you are at least happy with your M&K's. I too think that it maybe your auto cal that you are unsatisfied with.

                                                  Let us know how it turns out.
                                                  "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

                                                  Comment

                                                  • Jariten
                                                    Senior Member
                                                    • Jun 2000
                                                    • 271

                                                    #26
                                                    Hi John !

                                                    ChetK is probably trying stuff..and might have found the ideal settings ^_^;;;;


                                                    so he doesn't have time to post here ^^;;;

                                                    He's now "Surrounded!"

                                                    heheheh

                                                    :T

                                                    Comment

                                                    • John Holmes
                                                      Moderator Emeritus
                                                      • Aug 2000
                                                      • 2703

                                                      #27
                                                      Hahahaha,

                                                      Good point Jariten!
                                                      "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

                                                      Comment

                                                      • Chetk
                                                        Senior Member
                                                        • May 2004
                                                        • 247

                                                        #28
                                                        No no. I'm still here. Sorry guys. I just haven't had a chance to try all of the above suggestions. I plan to though and I do appreciate the feedback.

                                                        Comment

                                                        • Jariten
                                                          Senior Member
                                                          • Jun 2000
                                                          • 271

                                                          #29
                                                          ChetK, we were only pulling your speaker cables ^^;;;;

                                                          just do it when you have time

                                                          *grin*

                                                          Happy Listening

                                                          PS. Do use the analog inputs when using the C1 to listen to Audio
                                                          I was quite...hmmm amazed of the lack of detail when using optical/COax digital from my CD player to the C1

                                                          something was missing

                                                          now I have it on Analog and it's waaaaay up there ^^;;

                                                          ok go on now ^_^

                                                          :T

                                                          Comment

                                                          • John Holmes
                                                            Moderator Emeritus
                                                            • Aug 2000
                                                            • 2703

                                                            #30
                                                            NP Chetk. We know life is busy. We just need our fix too! :lol: :rofl:
                                                            "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

                                                            Comment

                                                            • Jariten
                                                              Senior Member
                                                              • Jun 2000
                                                              • 271

                                                              #31
                                                              Still pondering on rear speakers....

                                                              John !

                                                              :T

                                                              Im still pondring on the rear speakers to get...

                                                              I'm thinking SS-150 should be fine for rear surrounds...
                                                              then again...I could buy a set of 3 S-150THX for 700$
                                                              and could use them as rear surrounds...but then...no dipole/tripole function...


                                                              any thoughts?

                                                              Comment

                                                              • John Holmes
                                                                Moderator Emeritus
                                                                • Aug 2000
                                                                • 2703

                                                                #32
                                                                Hey Jariten!

                                                                Oooohhhh, that's a damn good price on the S-150's!!! It would be very, very hard for me to pass on a deal like that. Though, I do understand the desire of those that want identical speakers all around. I'm not one that feels having your surrounds being identical is crucial to good sound. Maybe for optimal muti-channel music, but not a necessity.

                                                                Though I am satified with my Fosgates doing rear duty. I would love (when I have the funds) to make a move to the SS-150's. Just to have M&K's complete my package. Plus, I think the SS-150's are so much easier to place and mount. Which is something that I cannot say for my 38lb Fosgates.

                                                                When you move, will your HT have an area dedicated or will it share a common area?
                                                                "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

                                                                Comment

                                                                • Jariten
                                                                  Senior Member
                                                                  • Jun 2000
                                                                  • 271

                                                                  #33
                                                                  Hi John !

                                                                  yes that price is very tempting....
                                                                  *mumble*
                                                                  it's a matched pair of L/R and a Center channel....

                                                                  Yes it will be a dedicated room...
                                                                  and yes...it sounds like the SS-150 would be easier to install with the M&K stand (the ones that go from the floor and are against the wall)
                                                                  Don't remember the name offhand...

                                                                  Hmmmmm

                                                                  Maybe I should propose them in the FS area....I could have them shipped with my stuff for free....Hmmmm


                                                                  I'll probably stick with the SS-150.....^^;;
                                                                  :T

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • John Holmes
                                                                    Moderator Emeritus
                                                                    • Aug 2000
                                                                    • 2703

                                                                    #34
                                                                    Are you speaking of the stands that attach at the baseboard? Those are the ST1 and ST2 I believe. They are pretty cool. And make alot of sense. A smart design imo!

                                                                    I don't see how you would be unhappy the SS. I think they are the best of both worlds.
                                                                    "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • Jariten
                                                                      Senior Member
                                                                      • Jun 2000
                                                                      • 271

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Hi John

                                                                      I was thinking of the Base Station http://www.mksound.com/stands_brackets2.html

                                                                      they are shown with a pair of SS-150 (Yes!) but I'm not sure that they would support the 29lb MPS2525 for the side surrounds....
                                                                      the ST-Wall brackets might be better for those...

                                                                      and for the LCR I'm thinking of the ST-1 with the 24" leg and the Tilt bracket

                                                                      that should be nice ^_^


                                                                      Happy Viewing!

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • John Holmes
                                                                        Moderator Emeritus
                                                                        • Aug 2000
                                                                        • 2703

                                                                        #36
                                                                        Yup Jariten,

                                                                        Those are the ones that I thought you were referring to. The ST moniker was just above it and I was a tad on the tired side when I glanced it.

                                                                        As I said above, I really like the theory of design. The idea of using no floor space can be a big advantage in smaller room. Not to mention, they give a very clean look to the installation.

                                                                        Does your Halo support THX processing (sorry I'm not up to speed on the unit)? Will you be using a 7.1 configuration?
                                                                        "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • Jariten
                                                                          Senior Member
                                                                          • Jun 2000
                                                                          • 271

                                                                          #37
                                                                          Hi John!
                                                                          the Halo is actually the Parasound C1 controler...the one with the TFT in front

                                                                          it will do 7.1 and more ...(extra programmable outputs ^_^)

                                                                          I already have 7 channels of amplification ^_^V
                                                                          And the Sub is waiting in NY ....

                                                                          I just need da room!

                                                                          O_O

                                                                          :T

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • John Holmes
                                                                            Moderator Emeritus
                                                                            • Aug 2000
                                                                            • 2703

                                                                            #38
                                                                            So you will be getting two pair of SS-150's then?
                                                                            "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • Jariten
                                                                              Senior Member
                                                                              • Jun 2000
                                                                              • 271

                                                                              #39
                                                                              Hi John

                                                                              just one pair for the back
                                                                              keep the MPS2525 for the sides...

                                                                              I'll use wall brackets for the side....

                                                                              ^_^


                                                                              Still packing here...

                                                                              ^^;;;

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • John Holmes
                                                                                Moderator Emeritus
                                                                                • Aug 2000
                                                                                • 2703

                                                                                #40
                                                                                Wow, packing is always a drag to me. Way too many little items! But, the end result makes it all worth it.

                                                                                I'm just curious, why did you decide to use the MPS2525 as sides? I thought in a 7.1 setup di/bi-poles (in this case tri-poles :T ) for the sides and direct radiators for the back? Atleast I know, this is what THX suggest (if that means anything to you).
                                                                                "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • Jariten
                                                                                  Senior Member
                                                                                  • Jun 2000
                                                                                  • 271

                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  the MPS2525 can be configured in many ways like the SS-150

                                                                                  it has the same drivers as th S-150THX + 2 drivers on each side of the enclosure


                                                                                  why did I go with those?

                                                                                  COs I had agood deal on them and was still in 5.1 at the time...
                                                                                  now I'm getting reading for 7.1 and I want to get the SS-150THX for the back...


                                                                                  ^^;;

                                                                                  T.

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • John Holmes
                                                                                    Moderator Emeritus
                                                                                    • Aug 2000
                                                                                    • 2703

                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    Ah.....I understand now. Thanks for the education. I did not know that the MPS2525 was configurable as such. It all adds up now.
                                                                                    "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • Jariten
                                                                                      Senior Member
                                                                                      • Jun 2000
                                                                                      • 271

                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      :T


                                                                                      am off to "Electric City" !

                                                                                      Woohooo!


                                                                                      (Akihabara in Tokyo)

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • Chetk
                                                                                        Senior Member
                                                                                        • May 2004
                                                                                        • 247

                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        Hi Guys,

                                                                                        Just thought I'd let you know that my front left speaker went out on me again. I know it's getting power because I see the two red lights light up on the S-150P. It's just not playing audio. I have checked the output on the Halo C1 (by plugging in a different speaker to that output) and I am getting a signal. I have e-mailed M&K to get it fixed. This'll be the second time within a 4 month time frame that I need to get it fixed. :cry: I'm sure they'll take care of it, but it just always seems to happen around major events (Lakers losing the series to Detriot).

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • Jariten
                                                                                          Senior Member
                                                                                          • Jun 2000
                                                                                          • 271

                                                                                          #45
                                                                                          Chetk

                                                                                          Sorry to hear about the problems with your Speaker....
                                                                                          sounds strange....

                                                                                          I hope they replace it instead!

                                                                                          Are the L/R matched pair?

                                                                                          I'd say, have them both replaced !!!

                                                                                          You must have spent quite a bit on the 150P's ...they shouldn't go out on you like that

                                                                                          T. :twisted:

                                                                                          Comment

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