Club On-Line Only Vendors: SVS, Hsu, Ascend, ACI, Axiom, Rocket, etc.

[Chris D]

Sorry, triple post




CHRIS
Luke: "Hey, I'm not such a bad pilot myself, you know"

[Danbry39]

We must be in some weird alternate universe where posts clone themselves. For some reason, your post came up double like with me before Chris.

In this universe, I responded to your post before you even posted it. Weird huh?




Keith

[Chris D]

Sorry, uh.... QUADRUPLE post?

Keith- Interesting to hear that Outlaw sells racks as well now. I need some, so I'll take a look.

Klipsch has certainly put out some good speakers over the years, even if they weren't pretty. I've read guys who have made entire home theater setups out of Heresy speakers, La Scala, etc. WAF factor = LOW




CHRIS
Luke: "Hey, I'm not such a bad pilot myself, you know"

[curtis]

I've never liked speakers as much as these. I appreciate them more everyday. Quite addicting.

That's exactly how I feel about my speakers. Always looking for more stuff to play on them.

Keith,

Can you hear the Sapphires getting better by the hour?




curtis

[Danbry39]

At first, I heard quite a bit of difference, hour by hour. Now, either the break in is done and over with or it's very gradual, because I just don't hear or notice it so much. Still, others have posted that they heard it going on past 100 hours.




Keith

[curtis]

Hey Keith,

Any updates?




curtis

[David Meek]

Danbry, a really interesting test would be to take your old speakers and put them back in place. I did and was FLOORED by how much things had improved with the new ones. Brand new, and before the break-in had finished I heard major improvements, but after using them for several months, going back to the old was a revelation. Have you tried that?

Darn, I didn't get a triple post. :




David - HTGuide flunky
Our "Theater"
Our DVDs on DVD Tracker

[Danbry39]

David,

That really is an interesting idea. I bet my ears have acclimated to the new sound too. This is why banana plugs are good.

Curtis,

Yesterday, I went back to music after watching a few DVD's. I did think that it might have smoothed out some, but don't know for sure. Figure I have about 70 hours time in now.

How are the Ascends? Any updates on your search for a power amp? You might also want to check Ubid.com. I got my Parasound there for an obscenely good price. Ubid is a factory authorized outlet for Parasound so the 10 year warranty came with it.

Surfs up (in Manhattan Beach),
Keith




Keith

[curtis]

My Ascends are doing fine. Someone was over briefly yesterday, also an audio junkie, and said "Wow, they sound great! I have never heard of them."

Parasound on UBid?? Guess I will be spending a lot of time on that site!




curtis

[Danbry39]

Spiffnme (Craig) has given me permission to post his findings of the side by side testing of some of the online dealer offerings, so thanks to Spiffnme and hope everyone gets a chance to read it. He has added to this somewhat from his original text posted at AVS.

Here you go:

Subject: Axiom M22
vs Rocket RS150
vs Ascend CBM-170

Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 16:55:42 -0700

As promised...this was written just after the listening session which took place 6/4/03. Any new thoughts I've added are in red text.

I was able to listen to all three of these bookshelf speakers last night. I was surprised at what I heard/saw.


1) LOOKS
The M22ti is solidly constructed, with an extremely well laid vinyl. But it IS vinyl. From a distance it can pull it off, but up close, you know it's vinyl.
The vinyl bothers me much less now than it did when I first bought my Axioms. They're pretty nice looking speakers. I've owned a pair of Snell Acoustic Type K/II's for over a decade. I guess I've been spoiled by their real wood finish.

The Rocket RS150 is a good looking speaker. Deep rosewood veneer with a polished black top and bottom cap. Very solid build.
The Ascend CBM-170 is a square black box. Exposed seals, rough textured surface. Plain ugly. There's no getting around it. This is one ugly speaker.
I still stand by this. Their new 340 speakers are MUCH better looking. No more exposed seals, etc...

2) PRICE
Axiom M22ti $400/pair
Rocket RS150 $400/pair
Ascend CBM-170 $328/pair

3)SOUND
I listened to a CD that I've demo'd dozens of speakers with, and listen to quite often myself on my own system. I KNOW that this cd sounds like. That said, here were MY impressions. DON'T FLAME ME!!!!

LOW END
The winner here would have to be the Rocket RS150. Much deeper bass than either the Axioms or the Ascends. Perhaps not quite as tight, but still a good sounding low end. Next in line would go to the Ascends. A bit tighter, but not as low as the Rockets. Finally the Axiom M22ti. Again, nice tight bass - for what it has. None of the three sounded too boomy which is great.

MID TONES
First place I'd have to say was a tie between the Axiom M22 and the Ascend CBM-170. Nice and clear. Voices were articulate and natural sounding. The Axiom's and the Ascends sounded very, very similar to each other here. The Rockets were COMPLETELY different. One track in particular "Polaroid Millennium" by Superior (a gentle female voice accompanied by guitar) sounded...well the only way I could describe it is as "hollow". There was an almost echoy sound to her voice which in all the speakers I've ever listened to this track with, I've never heard before. The voice also sank back - waaay back. She almost sounded like she was singing in another room - with the door closed. Personally I didn't like this sound effect. Perhaps some do.

HIGHS
Again the Axiom M22 and the Ascend are quite close here, but 1st place in the high end has to go to the Axiom M22ti. Again, with the Superior track, on the M22's the female voice has an extra little breath to it. In the guitar you can hear the individual strings being plucked a bit more clearly. It's only a bit more articulate than the Ascends, but those small details are missing in the CBM-170's. 2nd place goes to the Ascend CBM-170's. Again they sound quite similar to the M22, but the finest details of the upper notes are smoothed off a bit. Taking up the rear is again the Rocket RS150. There is little high end to speak of. To be honest I was wondering if we were listening to a faulty pair of speakers. (I was assured that we were not).

4)FINAL NOTES/RECOMMENDATIONS

For me I liked the Axiom M22ti the best - by a hair. It's slightly more detailed highs and better looks push it ahead of the Ascend CBM-170. The Ascend's are right behind though, and if you like the slightly smoother sound in your highs, you'll like the CBM-170 more - IF you can get over their looks. At $328/pair these Ascends are a BARGAIN. Finally the Rocket RS150. I don't know what to say about these speakers. The Rockets have a loyal following, so obviously people like that sound, but it's FAR from neutral. You're either going to like it or hate it. The RS150 is a great looking speaker, and if you like their VERY, VERY laid back sound, you'll be thrilled with them.

Finally - THIS WAS NOT A SCIENTIFIC LISTENING SESSION! It was not blind, it was not in a sound chamber, etc... It was simply my impressions of these three speakers in the comfort of a living room. So I beg you, don't bring the lack of science up, we've all been there before.


Craig




Keith

[Aeromos]

Hi guys,

I'm looking at auditioning Axiom. For those interested, and live in Toronto Canada or nearby (Buffalo, NY), there's a local dealer that carries them. I had called Axiom and to my surprise was told that there's a dealer close by. The dealer is Number 1 Sound (not sure if that's how they spell it) and their phone # is 416-532-6134.




Aeromos
Enjoy life, it's too short to waste!!
My Collection

[Danbry39]

Aeromos,

Thanks for the info. Didn't know Axiom could be demo'd at stores, but this might be a Canadian thing. Let us know your impressions after you audition.




Keith

[spiffnme]

Hi guys,

I'm looking at auditioning Axiom. For those interested, and live in Toronto Canada or nearby (Buffalo, NY), there's a local dealer that carries them. I had called Axiom and to my surprise was told that there's a dealer close by. The dealer is Number 1 Sound (not sure if that's how they spell it) and their phone # is 416-532-6134.

That's great that you have a local store which carries Axiom! I suggest you bring them home to demo though! If Axiom will give you a 30day trial period, there's no reason your local b&m store shouldn't give you at least a few days with a pair. Then if you didn't want them, you could easily return them at no cost.

Things sound WAY different in different rooms. Since you have an opportunity like this, you really should try to take advantage of it.

Which speakers were you interested in hearing?

Good luck!




www.funnyfarmcomics.net
All Daredevil, All the Time!

[Aeromos]

Spiffnme,

Actually right now I have 2 speaker brands in the running. I've got another post I think in A/V Chalet regarding my next considerations for upgrade (Upgrading!!).

I enjoyed listening to KEF speakers (Q7-mains, Q2ds-surrounds, Q9C-center). They performed well off axis and was very detailed and warm sounding. These were hooked up to a NAD-T762.

Also I really loved the Monitor Audio Silver Series. I found these were really detailed and dynamic. These speakers also created a pretty wide soundstage. I've listened to these 3 times already and have really loved them. I've auditioned them hooked up to 3 different systems. 1) Arcam AVR200 - both music and H/T. 2) Musical Fidelity - music. 3) Denon 3803 - music.

Unfortunately I didn't get to audition these both in the same day. I'll probably have to go back and do this when I'm closer to buying them or when I find the time again. Right now I'm leaning more towards the Monitor Audio's. I will probably try to match them with Rotel and see how it all sounds together.




Aeromos
Enjoy life, it's too short to waste!!
My Collection

[george king]

Areomos,

I used to run Kef Q series speakers with my Rotel amp. It is a very nice combination. The Kefs sound better off axis because of the coaxial design. They do throw a pretty big soundstage.

Have fun.

[Danbry39]

Off topic, but John Ashman emailed me today to say he was booted off AVS for getting into it with the SVS boys. I know some of you hang out there too and might be interested. Funny thing is I really disliked John before the thread about dealers/manufacturers identifying themselves. Quite a bit was thrown at John during the course of that thread and I really admired the way he handled himself.

On topic again: George, are you on the list to try out some of the AV/2's floating around?




Keith

[Aeromos]

george king,

That's great to hear about the pairing of the KEF Q's with Rotel. I'm leaning towards Rotel. Of course I will have to make sure that which ever speakers I decide to go with, that Rotel will match well with them.




Aeromos
Enjoy life, it's too short to waste!!
My Collection

[Aeromos]

MY IMPRESSIONS OF AXIOM

Hi all!! As promised, here are my impressions after I went yesterday to audition Axiom speakers. As a comparison point, I will also give you my impressions of B&W's 603's that I auditioned the day before which were paired with a Rotel CD player and amp (not sure what models they were). For both I used my own music which was a good selection of different genres (pop, r&b, soul, rock & hip-hop), as I like to listen to all types of music.

B&W 603's

These were detailed but in a different way and sounded a little more laid back. They weren't as detailed in the highs but more so in the mids. I was disappointed though when I played some hip-hop. The bass just went out of control. It sounded very muddy and overpowered everything else.

Axiom M80ti's

These speakers sounded great. They were paired with HK's AVR525 and cd player (didn't check model #). These were very detailed and projected a wide sound stage. At times though they sounded a little too bright for me. This could be due to the pairing with the HK's and the setting. I have to make sure this was the case as I know that when I listen to too much treble I tire at listening to music quickly (get a head ache from it). The receiver was set for "Far" speakers and the rep that was helping me didn't know how to adjust it. The mids were just as detailed and the bass was tight. I had to get up and make sure the surrounds weren't on when I played some hip-hop. As it turned out, to my astonishment they weren't on. The sound stage was amazing and I was enveloped in sound. Also I did try these out for HT. The center was the VP150 and the surrounds were the QS4. I auditioned them with Blade II. The panning was amazing, especially when you hear Blade shooting out of sight from the right speaker and you see the bullet go through the guy through the center channel. The great part too is that the WAF is very high as they now have these models available in over 30 finishes.

My only concern is that they have a 4 ohm impedance level. I'm not sure if my existing JVC RX-5022V receiver will be able to handle the load. If not, I will have to come up with a different plan in upgrading my system. My original plan was to upgrade in this order:

L/R Mains --> Receiver or Pre/Pro & Center --> Surrounds --> Sub

If my receiver isn't up to snuff and could possibly ruin the mains, I will have to go this route:

Receiver or Pre/Pro --> L/R Mains --> Center & Surrounds --> Sub

I would prefer to go the first route though, as I think I'll notice the greatest difference in sound right away.

Of course I now also have to go back and listen to the Monitor Audio's and KEF's and put them through the same rigorous and critical test that I've put the Axiom's through. Remember that these were my impressions and may not necessarily be the same findings as others.




Aeromos
Enjoy life, it's too short to waste!!
My Collection

[george king]

sorry i have not been around as much. The semester starts next week, and I had to completely reorganize a course at the last minute.

Danbry,

First, I would love to listen to the AV/2s but if they came into the house, the wife would kill me. In the last 6 months I built the 3 AV-1s and got an SACD player. So if she thought there were any more upgrades, I would be moving into the proverbial dog house.

Also, I quit hanging out at the AVS because things really got out of hand, even before this incident (what happened BTW). For a long time, it was a Diva/Rocket love fest/forum, and it rather annoying.

Aeromos,

I really liked the combo, but oddly never really cared for B&W speakers, even when paired with Rotel.

[Danbry39]

Don't know for sure what happened. John Ashman claimed that Ron or someone from SVS insulted him and he fired back. Obviously, something to do about subs. It is funny how certain brands of speakers seem to dominate over there, which, ironically, makes me less apt to buy them. For some reason, I like to be part of a smaller group of owners because I can get to recognize each one pretty individually.

Good luck with the beginning of school George.

Aeromos,

That was a very nice review of the Axioms and pretty reflective of what I've heard about them elsewhere. I've read that most every receiver will work with a four ohm load, but you really have to reduce the volume to play it safe, something I'd be uncomfortable with personally. Again, this isn't something I'm an expert on, just something I've heard. But, that WAF gotta count for something. You might address this issue to the dealer.

Aeromos




Keith

[Aeromos]

Hey Keith,

I actually spoke directly with the owner today and he was really helpful. He'd be willing to let me audition them at home (of course paying for them first - floor models) for 1-2 weeks. If I love them I bring the floor models back and he'd give me a new set. I didn't push on what kind of discount I'd get but it was already mentioned about 10-20%. Now all I have to do is clear up some room on the plastic card. LOL!!

Also concerning the highs (too bright at times), apparently it probably was the HK AVR-525's setting that was responsible. He had asked me if I could get over there right away as he had a friend that was in the shop that was more familiar with the HK's than he was. Unfortunately I couldn't get over there so he went on to explain that his friend told him that the "FAR" setting is meant for larger rooms (I was sitting about 5-6 feet from the speakers and pretty much against the back wall) and further seating.

I described to him the layout of my room and he suggested for me to come back in. He would set up the Axiom's in the center listening area to more closely resemble my room. All he asked was for me to try and give him at least a day's notice. DONE!! Looks like I'll be going back for further testing. I'll even ask him to pair them with Pioneer Elite's VSX-45TX (already set up in the center area) which is one of the receivers I'm interested in. As always I will keep you guys posted.




Aeromos
Enjoy life, it's too short to waste!!
My Collection

[curtis]

Hey,

Haven't been here much lately...but I have few things to say.

I also got an email from John Ashman. Basicly sounds like some bantering back and forth with the SVS guys, then claims unfairness from the moderator. Interesting though how the moderator has been more heavy handed lately too.

Axioms: Great speaker company, great value. I have heard the M22's and M60's in my home with my HK525. While a little "bright" for my tastes, I can definitely understand why so many like them. IMO, dollar for dollar, tough to beat, unless you like Ascends!




curtis

[Aeromos]

Hi all,

I got a chance to go back for a second audition of the Axiom speakers. This time around I had a side by side comparison test of their M80 and M60. I had asked them in advance if they could set these 2 up for me. They were hooked up to the Pioneer Elite VSX-49TX. All I can say is amazing!! Here are my impressions.

M80
First I will start with the M80. Even with no toe-in, the imaging was excellent. These were very detailed and dynamic. The sound was very crisp and clean, forward sounding, with a pretty wide sound stage. I was able to hear things I had never heard before. At least something that I could now discern what type of instrument it was. One song I was listening to, I was able to hear maracas (like coconut shells with beans or pebbles inside - best way I could describe them) that I couldn't distinguish before. It even sounded like it was coming from the right of the right speaker at about 2 o'clock (position). The bass was tight and focused.

M60
The M60 was still good but not as detailed as the M80. I'm only guessing but this could be due to the M80's having dual tweeters and dual midrange drivers. An example of this was that I wasn't able to hear the maracas with as great detail as I was able to with the M80's. They didn't sound as distinguished and seemed to just blend in with everything else. The bass from the M60's wasn't as tight and seemed to get boomy at times, especially when I played some hip-hop. I'm not sure if this was due to the fact that they were situated right beside the M80's. Though the M80's didn't sound this way even with the M60's right beside it.

Verdict
I enjoyed the M80's tremendously. My earlier concern of them being too bright has been expelled. I believe my earlier impression was due to the set-up and the setting of the HK AVR525 (far). This time around I had asked them to set them up in a different part of their store which more closely resembled my room at home. I've been luckier than most to be able to compare these two speakers side by side. Understandably most are not able to do this because they'd have to order both online.

Most people choose Axiom's as their speakers because they enjoy detailed, dynamic, crisp, clean and forward sound as I do. I've found that most have chosen to go with the M60's instead of M80's. They're under the impression that they're essentially the same speaker with the exception that the M80's can go louder and lower. My findings have taught me otherwise. I believe that if one was to compare these two side by side like I have, they would choose the M80's. People who think they get detailed sound now with M60's would be very delightfully surprised how much more detail they'll get with the M80's.




Aeromos
Enjoy life, it's too short to waste!!
My Collection

[Danbry39]

Hey Aeromos,

Great review. I really wish that a few of the online only companies would band together and open up a few showrooms around the country to give us the opportunity to compare side by side more easily, but I guess that'd kind of defeat the purpose.

Simply a great review, one that more people need to read, especially those on the fence between the two speakers or those, like you said, who might not recognize the significant difference between them.




Keith

[Aeromos]

Hey Keith,

Thanks! I'm pretty sure you've read my post with me comparing speakers. One name I was looking at was Monitor Audio. Well after my last post here I went back and listened to them again. Because I've now listened to different speakers, this time around I was better equipped to assess them sonically. It's amazing how much you can point out the detail and little nuances that set speakers apart with some experience. Here are my findings of the following speaker.

Monitor Audio S8 Silver Series
I found these to be on the same sonic level as the Axiom M60. The midrange was well detailed but the higher frequencies wasn't as detailed as the Axiom M60. I found the S8's a little more boomy as well. The bass could be tuned by inserting foam(supplied) . Price wise, the S8's are retailed at twice the cost of the Axiom M60's.

I'm afraid to say that in my excitement and ignorance, I deemed the Monitor Audio's to be excellent and would be tough to beat. I now stand corrected. To get the same sonic level and detail that I love with the Axiom M80's, you would probably have to go to the Monitor Audio S10's. But again they(S10's) tended to be on the boomy side as well. When I auditioned them, the dealer tuned it a few times with the foam inserts to control the bass. The S10's once again are also twice the cost of the M80's.

Although I still am to compare 2 other speaker brands (KEF-auditioned quickly so I have to go back and assess closer, and Paradigm), I think the Axiom's are going to be tough to beat. With its sonic characteristics and cost level, it'll be hard to sway me away from the M80's . Right now the front runner for me are the Axiom M80's. They could well be Canada's best kept secret!!




Aeromos
Enjoy life, it's too short to waste!!
My Collection

[Lex]

Guys, this thread just seems like a duracell, it just keeps going and going.

What do you want to do, start a stickville thread? As I said before, it's difficult for me to put any company that is primarily a sub company, since they compete directly with 2 sponsors. But I don't think Axiom, Ascend, ACI, Rocket would be a problem.

Let me know if you want me to start it via email to me.

Lex