New RCD 1072

[Aussie Geoff]

Dr Boom,

Thanks for the interesting comparision. I'm amazed to see that you have the C2 in the box - I remember your 1098 / C2 review but thought you would have decided by now... .... Must be a tough choice..

I know I'll be one of many interested in the 1098 comparison you do tomorrow..

Before you put the C2 away though - would you mind trying the CD Analog in the normal Analog inputs on Stereo96 etc and comparing his to the digital - as this is what anyone with a DVD-A or SACD would need to do with the CD player and it would be interesting to hear the effect.... (Just for scientific curiosity of course!)

Geoff

[SpOoNmAn]

My cousin and I have been comparing the digital and analog for the past few hours.

I agree word for word with what Dr Boom had said. In the end I prefer the Stereo96... but I found something even better.....

I connected the 1072 to the 7.1 analogs left and right, which is true bypass for the C2, and this is by far the best sound....

so it seems that the 1072's DAC's, to my ears, is the more pleasing/accurate one. The vocals are in your face, with some material this can be annoying, but 80% of the time, it just sounds awesome. The soundstage is massive, no doubt about it. But like Boom said, its less accurate. So its all preference

I did the following connections, Ill list them as #1, sounding the best, and the last one not as good....

#1. 1072 analog outs to 7.1 Analog Ins, Best to my ears

#2. 1072 analog outs to Audio 2 unbalanced RCA's, in Stereo96 mode, very good overall.

#3. 1072, digital coax out AND the 1072 analog outs to audio 2 IN Stereo(not stereo96) sounded EXACTLY the same.

so there you have it. I am using Coballt cables for all tests. I will say this...

this C2 is a killer for movies. Sounds are so natural sounding, and the LFE out indeed gives out a lower, stronger signal.

Time to go play some more :T

Update, mostly for Geoff...

There is no Stereo96 mode for any of the Digital In's, and that to me sounds far better then the "stereo" mode thats available on all inputs, so for now, I'm sticking with analog connections. Ive spent the last hour listening and comparing Stereo96 to pure analog via the 7.1 inputs, and they are extremely close in quality of sound. I think I am going to stick with Audio 2 input using Stereo96 for a while, its pleasing on the ears

Correct me if I am wrong..but if I am using analog interconnects running from the 1072, the 1072's DAC's are at work, then it reaches the C2's unbalanced analog ins, which are supposedly digitized and NOT true analog bypass..

then what? the C2's A/D converters change it again? then again to digital? If thats the case, and the original signal is getting changed 2 to 4 times, how does it sound so damn good? 99% as good as true analog? Maybe Im thinking too much :E

The digital coax out from 1072 is the least inspiring, it sounds exactly like the "Stereo" mode from the unbalanced analog connection. How this is possible when one leaves the cd player as digital, and the other as analog, is beyond me.

[Aussie Geoff]

Spoonman,

Thanks for the review...

then what? the C2's A/D converters change it again? then again to digital? If thats the case, and the original signal is getting changed 2 to 4 times, how does it sound so damn good? 99% as good as true analog? Maybe Im thinking too much

Interesting - this says to me that either (both?) the C2's A/D and D/A converters are very good indeed (as is the 1072's DACs) and/or the digital coax you are using is not so good - since the digital signal being recieved should be the same or better than after the two levels of conversion through the 1072's DACs and then the A/D in the C2... Also that your anlog cables must be very good...

All the more reason to try better digital cables.... I would have expected:
>> 7.1 Analog to be best, then
>> Digital, then
>> Analog vai Strereo96 with its extra conversions.
THis would give 7.1 Analog for pure stereo listenning and Digital for any processing (e.g. DPL IIx or the use of the sub).

However expectations aren't necessarily reality and it's great that you are enjoying it so much...

Make sure you let us all know over the next few days how your go...

Geoff

[SpOoNmAn]

Geoff, I am using Cobalt analog interconnects along with Cobalt digital coax as you know. I think Ill be getting that silver magic just to see what really happens. Whats the return policy?

This unit must have excellent converters of both types, thats all I can think of.

The digital connection gives me the same exact sound as the analog stereo(not stereo96) thru the digitized unbalanced IN's. Its a more relaxed sound as DrBoom stated, but they have the same soundstage. So even if I try another digital coax, I cant see it changing the soundstage much. The stereo96 and pure analog put the voices in your face, you cant hide from it, its just there. Totally different soundstages from the others.

Maybe someone will come in here and agree or disagree with me. Id like more input from c1/c2 owners.

Either way, be it pure analog from 1072, or utilizing the C2's converters, both Stereo96 and Pure bypass sound almost exactly the same in all areas. That says a lot for Rotel and their 1072, as well as the C2's insides. They match up beautifully, and thats what I was hoping for If you have a bright room, as I do, the Halo gear and the 1072 tames this masterfully. It sounds like a whole new room, quite impressive indeed.

[DrBoom]

Great, just when I thought the C2 vs 1098 battle had been won already by the 1098 you guys are starting to make me doubt all over again :roll:
I listened to several other CD's today, first on the C2 again.
And I have to say that I'm starting to prefer the digital connection over the analog one for a number of reasons.
I still believe the analog connection with the multichannel inputs on the C2 gives a wider soundstage, and a more upfront sound but as far as detail, texture and bass tightness go the digital connection (using the C2's DAC) takes the cake.
I've found the digital connection to have more detail, better dynamics, tighter bass, and a more accurate reproduction of a live event.
For movies I've always felt that the C2 was way ahead of the 1098, bass is 10x better, integration of the speakers is much better, it sounds clearer, and the C2 seems to have less problems driving my HCA2205AT amp than the 1098 does.
Another thing is multichannel music, I have this DVD-Audio from Blue Man Group (percussion music) which is sooo much clearer on the C2 and has awesome bass.
And that's just the DTS track playing, since I don't have a DVD-A player
In general I can turn up the volume on the C2 way more than I can with the 1098, not sure why that is.
And as I said from the start, the subwoofer output from the C2 is phenomenal, where the 1098's is not very good at all. (don't know how they managed to screw that up)

But I'm deviating from the subject, back to the 1072.
After listening on the C2, I hooked up the 1098 again.
Analog connection with Van Den Hul D102 to the normal analog inputs, run in Bypass mode.
Digital connection with Kimber D60 to the coax input, run in Stereo mode.
Where there was a rather large difference with the C2 between analog and digital connection, there is virtually none with the 1098.
The only thing I can pick out is that the bass is tighter with the digital connection, and the overall sound is a bit richer and less bright.
The analog connection has a bit more dynamics, or so it seems.
As far as soundstage goes, not that much difference as with the C2.

[SpOoNmAn]

DrBoom, if you get a chance, and if you havent already...

connect your 1072 to the unbalanced Audio connections in the back. Run Stereo then STereo96 and listen. Then connect to the 7.1 left/rights as you were doing b4. Tell me the Stereo96 and true analog dont give you the same soundstage, they do for me. Id be very interested in your findings.

The "stereo" via digital and unbalanced analog sounds weak overall. The instruments are seperated better, but the vocals seem to take a hit. I like the vocals to be in my face so its all preference.

Im sure your good cables play a part, surely they are better then my Cobalts. I just cant see a really good digital coax changing the soundstage for stereo mode. The true analog and Stereo96 are so much better to my ears that I just dont see it happening, err hear it :P

for movies, the upgrade from a outlaw 950 to this machine is just insane. The LFE is now alive, and plays a much bigger role. All channels are distinctively better, no exaggeration. I cant believe Ive been missing out on this oh so sweet sound for so long, live and learn :E

[jlee]

Search speeed of the 1072

Great stuff by everybody that has posted in this thread so far. Sorry to interject, but has Rotel fixed the "slow search" problem of the 1071 with the new 1072? By this, I mean that if you wanted to go to a certain time of a track, fast forwarding or rewinding was PAINFULLY SLOW on the old Rotel. I think the fastest it could move was 3x real time. So to go to 2 min would actually take about 40s! This ALONE made me not want to buy the 1071, and I eventually went with a different player. I realize some people do not find this a problem, but I do. Has the 1072 fixed this?

[DrBoom]

The audible search isn't really what I'd call fast.
But if you press Pause first, it goes a lot faster, but then you can't hear it while you're searching.
I haven't timed it yet, but I'm sure it's faster than 3x.

Spoonman, I tried what you suggested, and these are my findings.
The difference between the normal Stereo mode, and Stereo96 isn't that huge.
It's audible on some recordings, mainly live recordings with an audience in larger venues because there's a lot of "air" in those.
The 96 KHz sampling captures a lot more of the ambience than the 48 KHz used for Stereo mode.
As for the difference between pure analog and stereo96, I don't think there is a big one, but it's hard to tell since you can't quickly switch back and forth because of the lack of 2 outputs on the CD player.

[SpOoNmAn]

Thats the problem that I found as well. Not being able to switch at the press of a button makes the testing very unreliable. I still find the Stereo sound connected with the digital coax the least inspiring, while the Stereo from the unbalanced analogs now impresses me more every time I hear it.

The more I listen to the pure analog via the 7.1, the less I like it. Its too precise, or too "in your face", exactly what I liked about it b4. But when I sit down for hours on end, it just isnt what I want to listen to. Who knows, I'll change my mind again tomorrow, lol.

I am ordering the Silver coax from Doug in a few minutes, if it doesnt make a difference, I'll use it for the dvd player. I might order some silver kingcats from him as well. I love this hobby

[jlee]

Drboom, when you get a chance, can you roughly time the search speed during play, and also during pause... and then report your findings to the forum? I'd be really interested in that. Thanks.