New RCD 1072

[n3philim]

I'm gonna be getting my RCD 1072 later today. I just hope it's all (and more) up to the hype that's said about it in all the reviews, including personal reviews from this forum.

I have heard it in the store, but the sound is never the same as it is in your own listening room, hooked up to your own system.

So I will probably be admiring it for a good 30 minutes before hooking it up tonight. Then I'll probably be pestered by the wife to stop listening to two channel music and go to sleep. :wink:

[DrBoom]

When you get one, don't be surprised it's going to sound very bright and even agressive for the first couple of hours, but it tames down after 20 - 30 hours of playing.
So just leave it on for a couple of days, don't have to turn on the amps or anything, just put in a CD and put it on repeat.
I listened to it in the store as well, and I heard that it was brighter than the NAD C542 and Marantz SA8400 on that system as well, but it sounded a lot more lively and dynamic too.
Bottom line, you could spend more and get something better, but at this price point it's a good player. :T
At first I wanted to exchange it for something better and a lot more expensive (in the lines of a Classé CDP10 or something), but I've been upgrading so much the last months that I'd better not.
And it has really gotten better after some burn in.

[Mary]

I purchased my 1072 a few weeks back. I have to say I have been very pleased with its performance. It does get better everytime I listen to it. I think you will be very happy with your choice. Good luck with it and enjoy!!!

[SpOoNmAn]

Mine is due to arrive tomorrow. How are you guys connecting yours? from the analog outs or dig coax?

I have an Outlaw 950 pre/pro connected to my Halo A52 amp. Im sure Ill experiment, but was wondering if anyone had some insight on some tests/comparisons theyve run.

[DrBoom]

I have it connected analog with a Van Den Hul D102 (coming soon: Kimber Select KS1011 8) ) on my RSP1098, which is working in Bypass mode for the CD input.
I also have it connected digitally with a Kimber D60 for testing purposes.
The analog connection is a tad brighter, which can be attributed to the VDH interconnect, or just the player itself.
It's definitely more detailed, dynamic and lively when using the analog connection.
The digital one is OK, but nothing spectacular.
So it's safe to say the analog connection is the way to go.

[SpOoNmAn]

I have it connected analog with a Van Den Hul D102 (coming soon: Kimber Select KS1011 8) ) on my RSP1098, which is working in Bypass mode for the CD input.
I also have it connected digitally with a Kimber D60 for testing purposes.
The analog connection is a tad brighter, which can be attributed to the VDH interconnect, or just the player itself.
It's definitely more detailed, dynamic and lively when using the analog connection.
The digital one is OK, but nothing spectacular.
So it's safe to say the analog connection is the way to go.

Thanks for the quick reply. Im using lowly Cobalt Cable interconnects thruout my system. Ill admit I like them, and for now, Im holding on to them. I know the 1072 has a sweet analog section, so it makes sense to take advantage of it. Im sure a good preamp, like the halo c2 I want has excellent DACs that might give it a run for its $$, but I wont know until I get my hands on one. :B

[aud19]

I believe Aussie Geoff connected his to the 1098 via Doug's silver Coax and preffered it over his previously preffered analog connection.

Jason

[DrBoom]

Spoonman, it so happens I also have a C2 (for the time being), and I once tried an Arcam DV88+ DVD player at home.
To my surprise that one sounded better with the analog connection than with the digital one too, so I'd still try both and not just assume that the C2 has better DAC's.

Very strange that Geoff preferred the digital connection, I don't see the use of a CD player if you're going to connect it digitally.
Might as well get a transport, or a decent DVD player with coax out.
I can't tell much difference between digital connections, but I can sure tell analog outputs apart.
I've already had a Pioneer DV668, Denon DVD2200, Arcam DV88+ and my own Panasonic DVD-RV32 and since recently RCD1072.
Digitally connected the difference is marginal, but analog connections are completely different sounding.

[aud19]

DrBoom, have a look at this thread

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=8253&highlight=silver+coax

Jason

[SpOoNmAn]

DrBoom, have a look at this thread

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=8253&highlight=silver+coax

Jason

*sigh*

lol, you people got me wondering how my cobalt cables stack up to Dougs

any honest opinions on how the 2 might compare?

Ill play with the 1072 for a week or so. I have a 90 day return for the cobalts if need be.

I DO have a question though. Does Doug make silver cables for analog interconnects? If the analog section is so good on the 1072, and the silver coax made a huge difference for the digital out....wouldnt it make sense that a silver analog would exhibit even better sound?

I read some of the thread Jason linked to and got more confused. :E

-Aaron-

[Aussie Geoff]

I used to be a digital doubter too...

DrBoom (and others),

Very strange that Geoff preferred the digital connection, I don't see the use of a CD player if you're going to connect it digitally.
Might as well get a transport, or a decent DVD player with coax out.
I can't tell much difference between digital connections, but I can sure tell analog outputs apart.

I used to think this too - but I found with the RCD-1072 I, my friends and family can clearly hear the difference between digital connections from it and from my older Sony ES series CD player as well as my DVD player. And with a good cable we are talking quite significant differences (a whole extra layer of detail and clarity from the 1072 compared to the DVD player). Equally I have found quite audibls differences between some digital coax cables as well as optical ones. Try it and see (I used to be a digital doubter for several "lost" years.... If you can hear the difference then go for it (on my system lots of people can and I can A/B switch the same CDs etc) almost instantly ...

SpoonMan,

I Do have a question though. Does Doug make silver cables for analog interconnects? If the analog section is so good on the 1072, and the silver coax made a huge difference for the digital out....wouldnt it make sense that a silver analog would exhibit even better sound?

Yes Doug does have several models of Silver Interconnets. Your "Analog hould be Better" is my theory too - so I have ordered and have had delivered Dougs Silver KingCats for both my 1072 and the connection from the 1098 to the amps (lots of $ with 9 cables) - unfortunately though I missed the delivery and am away on a 1 month business trip - so won't hear them until mid September.... However you will see that whmacs tried them and found a big difference. But what we need is a comparison... Perhaps someone who already has both could oblige?

Complicating this is you would have my explanation read in the thread that Aud19 linked you to - how you need to use pure direct (bypass) on the Analog to avoid it being digitised anyway by the processor with an inherent loss of quality... So I won't be disappointed if the Silver Analog doesn't sound better as I like the option of using the sub etc...

Geoff

[SpOoNmAn]

Geoff, you need to end the trip youre on and get home to audition your new toys, lol. If I didnt just receive all these cobalt cables, Id snag them up and try them.

Thanks for the reply by the way.

I will be running my towers on large, utilizing the Outlaw pre/pros analog bypass. I will ofcourse try a digital coax and see how it fairs against the analog. But, that doesnt keep me from wondering what Dougs cable is capable of. I will wait patiently for your return, and your opinions of the silver analog cables. In the meantime, I am going to try and get my hands on a Halo C2.

I still haven't rearranged my rack for the 1072's morning arrival and its already 1am. Its going to be a looooong night :P

-Aaron-

[Aussie Geoff]

Spoonman,

I agree with you re the trip - a month (36 days!) is a long time...

Good luck with your comparisons of analog and digital. A tip I find well wortwhile is to connect both digital and analog as two separate devices on your processor - that way you can switch from one to the other with the same CD very quickly. Also - watch out for level differences - it is common to have a 1 or 2 db volume difference between analog and digital that you need to compensate for to get a fair comparison. I found a friendly dealer and brought home several cables - sat my (long suffering) family down as judges and swiched away using the same CDs and tracks each time - it was a revelation.... (even helped them feel a little better about my spending!)

Geoff

[SpOoNmAn]

Geoff...

I do indeed connect it thru different inputs, ive always done tests this way so I could switch as fast as possible. Its funny you have people sit with you, its funny because I do the same thing.

Sometimes I dont tell them what Im doing, until someone says..."wait, do that again" or "back that up". Then I know I wasnt the only one hearing things

I am putting off this rack issue *sigh* Off I go :cry:

-Aaron-

[n3philim]

Thanks guys. I actually had the store, use it for demo to burn it in two days ago. So by the time I got it yesterday, no brightness. This is an amazing machine. Very quiet. It is hooked up in analogue. So I'm using its internal DAC.

Like I mentioned, the sound is great. I'd have to agree, I believe value for money, this is an excellent machine. I've had my eye on a Consonance Reference 2.2 with tubes for months. But I figured I'd try the Rotel. Of course for me the Consonance was better, but value for money, I had to go with the Rotel.

You know what they say about law of diminishing returns, I guess I couldn't justify the Consonance. Unless I get the itch again soon.

I did have a problem though last night. I had some cds skipping from time to time. I'm pretty sure it's the player. I was ready to box it up to return it, but just this afternoon, it hasn't skipped one beat.

I guess its under observation for now. I'll probably return it if it starts skipping again.

Cheers to all and thanks for all your insights that helped me make my decision to get this great player.

[SpOoNmAn]

good to hear youre enjoying it. Ill be doing the same in a few short hours. Oddly enough, I had a Pioneer Elite cd player that skipped the first few days, but it went away and never returned, not once in the 4 years I owned it.

something might have settled in and it fixed itself? I have no idea but I wouldnt sweat it. If it doesnt come back and it sounds excellent, all is good :T

[seliger]

this player needs to be properly isolated to sound it's best, try using cones . also throw away the stock power cord and get at least a budget audiophile cord...........one thing that i've discovered after owning it for about a year now is that the opamp (OPA 2277) inside this player is quite sucky, it's quite warm sounding , in other words , blurry......... dynamics isn't that great too............use it for awhile ...............then maybe you guys should try to upgrade it ....the opamp i mean.............definately worth the effort...................i've upgraded mine about 3 months ago ................it's given the 1072 a new life...............................now it truly sounded hi-end.............................dynamics , resolution and imaging improved a few notch up.............................just did a A/B compare with ARCAM DIVA CD92 and CAL ICON MKII .......................this player beats the both in overall ...........with the opamp changed of course....................

hope this helps
cheers
jc

BTW the OPAMP used is now AD8066

[Bam!]

this player needs to be properly isolated to sound it's best, try using cones . also throw away the stock power cord and get at least a budget audiophile cord...........one thing that i've discovered after owning it for about a year now is that the opamp (OPA 2277) inside this player is quite sucky, it's quite warm sounding , in other words , blurry......... dynamics isn't that great too............use it for awhile ...............then maybe you guys should try to upgrade it ....the opamp i mean.............definately worth the effort...................i've upgraded mine about 3 months ago ................it's given the 1072 a new life...............................now it truly sounded hi-end.............................dynamics , resolution and imaging improved a few notch up.............................just did a A/B compare with ARCAM DIVA CD92 and CAL ICON MKII .......................this player beats the both in overall ...........with the opamp changed of course....................

hope this helps
cheers
jc

BTW the OPAMP used is now AD8066

To echo this a little more....as far as cones go I agree....Try Black Diamond Racing cones MK 3 or 4 try either...they do sound different!

Question :

How did you go about changing the opamp ?

[SpOoNmAn]

Surely the 1072 will sound better than the $80.00 Pioneer dvd player Im using for music at the present time :T err I hope it does or I just wasted my $$ :evil:

[Aussie Geoff]

Spoonerman,

It will and does sound great... (Absolute Sound Product of the year)

All you are seeing is the world of "tweakers" who search for ways to make great even better by small changes to components...

Try the isolation pods / mats one day if you like...

Don't even think of the Op Amp mods until you are comfortable to have the warrantee voided.... (Which for 99.99% of people is never)

Geoff

[SpOoNmAn]

Thanks for the reassurance Geoff

This will be the best cd player Ive ever had, and am eagerly awaiting its arrival. The last player I had was an Elite 100 disc changer. Not the best sound, but by memory, far better than this temporary dvd player Im using.

-Aaron-

[DrBoom]

Don't even think of the Op Amp mods until you are comfortable to have the warrantee voided.... (Which for 99.99% of people is never)

Maybe in 5 years when the warranty 's expired ?

I installed 3 Soundcare Superspikes (the self-adhesive ones) under my 1072, mainly because the original feet weren't really level.
One would be floating in the air all the time.
I don't know how much difference it made, haven't tried taking them away again yet, but at least it's stable now.
I put one under the transformer, and arranged the 2 other ones to for a triangle.
I'm also looking to get a slab of black marble or granite to put on top of the player to eliminate top panel vibrations and get better coupling with the rack.
It doesn't even get luke-warm so heat isn't an issue at all.
That really surprised me, as I've always used DVD players as a source which seem to cook the CD's.
This one can be on for hours or days, it won't even get warm and neither will the cd's.

[SpOoNmAn]

I have cones on the way, coming from audio advisor. They are your average vibrapod variety. If I feel they dont do anything, I might try mapleshades brass ones. I also have heavyhats from mapleshade due here today. I doubt at .5lb each they will stop any vibrations, but a pound might be better than nothing. All trial and error I guess. :roll:

[SpOoNmAn]

oh my oh my oh my!

this cd player is awesome! best investment yet, next to my Halo amp!

and comparing the dacs in the 1072 to the dacs in the outlaw pre/pro, the Rotel wins hands down!! Im staying analog for now :T

[seliger]

Question :

How did you go about changing the opamp ?

it's actually quite simply........first locate the opamp...............which is usually near the output.................rca socket...............it's the 8 legged IC...........................on top of it is the part number...............which is something like BB OPA2604ap , BB OPA2134 ,NE5532 or AD825 ................in this case will be BB OPA 2277pa .............................remove it with a soldering iron and a desoldering pump......................... put in a 8 pin IC socket .............then put the new ic into the socket............this way you can replace it with any opamp anytime you want......................or to do A/B testing...........in case you prefer the stock chip...........i personally thinks that AD8066 is the current best opamp available........................also please take note that OPA 2277 is a dual opamp....................therefore do not replace it with a single.......................HAVE FUN :B

you may also do a web search on AD8066.........................there should be quite a few online merchant selling ..................and they will be quite happy to teach you how to replace them..............................


cheers

[Bam!]

it's actually quite simply........first locate the opamp...............which is usually near the output.................rca socket...............it's the 8 legged IC...........................on top of it is the part number...............which is something like BB OPA2604ap , BB OPA2134 ,NE5532 or AD825 ................in this case will be BB OPA 2277pa .............................remove it with a soldering iron and a desoldering pump......................... put in a 8 pin IC socket .............then put the new ic into the socket............this way you can replace it with any opamp anytime you want......................or to do A/B testing...........in case you prefer the stock chip...........i personally thinks that AD8066 is the current best opamp available........................also please take note that OPA 2277 is a dual opamp....................therefore do not replace it with a single.......................HAVE FUN :B

you may also do a web search on AD8066.........................there should be quite a few online merchant selling ..................and they will be quite happy to teach you how to replace them..............................


cheers

thanks :T

[n3philim]

Congratulations SpOoNmAn. Mine still skips a bit. Last night, it skipped 5 times in the first song, and then just once in the second song of a cd. After that, no more skips. I wonder what's wrong with it?

Well, I'm hoping it just goes away. But if it continues to skip, I'll probably return the unit to the dealer I bought it from.

[nyny]

n3philim>>>> I got the 1072 a few weeks ago and had no skipping problem so far. I think it might be best for you to exchange for a new player (better to be safe).

Spoonerman>>>> How do you like your Cobalt interconnects? I ordered some Cobalt interconnects the other day and would really like to compare the DAC performance between the 1072 and the RSP-1068.

BTW, I have to agree with Aussie Geoff on the digital connection, it does make a difference. I compared the 1072 against my Denon DVD player using ditial coax cable and found that the 1072 sounded more dynamic and clearer. I guess there is such a thing as good and bad 1s and 0s :B

So far, the only compaint I have about the 1072 is the lack of auto resume function. When I stop the CD player, if I press "play" again, the player will start from track 1 all over again. It's kinda annoying.....have to keep reminding myself to press the "pause" button instead of the "stop" button. BTW, the remote control is kind of flimsy...but I guess it's a simple enough remote to be programed into a universal remote.

[SpOoNmAn]

The Cobalt analog interconnects are excellent. Im still debating on wether or not I should get the silver coax from Doug. I already compared the dacs from the 1072 to the outlaws, and the 1072 was the clear winner(using cobalt cables mind you). Now if Dougs cable changes that, then it would be worth looking into.

[nyny]

SpOoNmAn>>> I have the Silver Coax and I will conduct a comparison test once I receive the Cobalt interconnect. I will post my finding as soon as I am done with the test. :T

[n3philim]

nyny, I tried listening to some Mozart last night and got very annoyed after it skipped 4 straight times. Well it's going back to the dealer today. Woe is me, back to my trusty dvd player as a transport while using the 1066 DAC. :cry:

[SpOoNmAn]

nyny, so you have the silver coax and youre going to get analog Cobalts(or digital coax?) to compare? I will be looking for your review :T

[nyny]

Finally got the Cobalt Interconnects this morning and was able to conduct a non-blind test between Silver Coax (digital) and the Cobalt Interconnect (analog).

Equipments: RCD-1072; RSP-1068; RMB-1075; BMW 705.

Materials: Rosa Passos (Amorosa); Misia (Canto); Chopin 19 Nocturnes (Arthur Rubinstein); Buena Vista Social Club.

Well, after spending the entire afternoon listening to the above mentioned CDs, I have come to the conclusion that the 1072's analog output (via Cobalt) sounds better than the digital output (via Cat Cable). I concur with DrBoom's finding that the 1072 sounded brighter via analog output (bypass mode through the 1068 ) than its coax output (using 1068's DAC). However, the analog out provided noticeable better dynamic which resulted in more life like music reproduction. I guess the DAC in the 1072 is really better than the one in 1068. Hope this review is helpful :T

[Aussie Geoff]

Nyny,

Excellent. I can't wait to try my new silver analog interconnects when I return home in 3 weeks... If they make the 1072 should better than the digital Coax then it will be truely awesome...

Geoff

[SpOoNmAn]

nyny, thanks for the update my friend. Now for geoffs review....

still waiting..

[aud19]

nyny, this could be some evidence that the DAC's in the 1098 are in fact different/superior to the implementaion in the 1068 too....

Jason

[nyny]

Jason>>> You could definitely be right. Since I only have the 1068, I can only comment on my opinion of the DACs between the 1068 and the 1072.

I am sure the 1098 has superior DAC than the 1068 (consider the price difference) - it will be interesting to hear from Assie Geoff regarding his comparison between the Silver Coax and Silver Interconnect. I wonder how the DACs compare between 1072 and 1098.

[SpOoNmAn]

Well my friends, my comparisons just became more complicated. Tomorrow I am receiving a Parasound Halo C2 pre/pro, and Ive been assured by many, that the DACs in the Halo are superior to the 1072's. You can bet I'll be back in here with opinions tomorrow or Sunday :T

Time to buy more cables, possibly the silver coax?

[Aussie Geoff]

Spoonerman,

Congratulations - the C2 is definitely in the top few HT Processors there is and has a legendary reputation...

Re your "Digital Coax Question" the answer (IMO) is absolutely

I am 99% certain (Chris D could confirm) that the C1 and C2 will digitise all analog inputs (thus loosing some of the benefits of very high quality DACs in CD players). Normally this is in a 48 KHz sampling rate (with the option of full bass management etc). However they have a "Stereo96" mode that digitises them in 96Kz mode - but even then there is a dual conversion. So - IMO - well worth trying one of the best digital connections you can get (like the Silver Magic Coax) and using the (very good) DAC stage in the C2... I'd be surprised if that didn't give you a grin.... (or at least be well worth trying)

Geoff

[will1066]

Why didn't they allow the upsampling to be disengaged?

[Aussie Geoff]

Will1066,

I don't know - You'll need to check in Club Halo / Parasound

Here are some links

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=6975&highlight=Stereo96

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=6934&highlight=stereo

Geoff

[SpOoNmAn]

So even if I connect the 1072 via unbalanced analog, it will be digitized again, then converted again? The only bypass is via the balanced connections from what Im gathering.

I mind as well just connect the 1072 via the dig coax for peace of mind.

Its after 2am, my mind is going in a 1,000 different directions :E Wait, the manual states that stereo 96 works with the Analog Input signals. Now im even more confused....

So I have 2 choices for 2 channel listening..

#1. Digital coax from 1072 to C2, using stereo mode

#2. Analog outs from 1072 into the C2's unbalanced Analog Audio 1, using the Stereo96(which upconverts?)

Geoff, how long did it take to get your hands on the Silver coax from Doug? Im a very impatient person :cry:

Richard from Parasound told me that very very few cd players DAC's can compete with that of the C2's. I assumed the 1072 was not on the list of prestine cd players, but who knows.

I only have the single Cobalt digital coax running from dvd player to pre/pro. Ill have to add it to the 1072, and do some switching between inputs to listen for a difference comparing the analog connection to the digital one. If its all digitized, then there shouldnt be a difference, but I love tinkering. Then again, this Stereo96 might play a role.

[Aussie Geoff]

Spoonerman,

I too have heard great reports on the C2's DACs.

For all your queries - I have put a post in the Club Halo / Parasound forum HERE - they love answering this kind of question and actually have the C1 and C2 units so are speaking from experience...

So even if I connect the 1072 via unbalanced analog, it will be digitized again, then converted again?[

Looking at the manuals and web forums this appears to be the case..

The only bypass is via the balanced connections from what Im gathering.

There are some strong suggestions in the posts that the 7.1 analog connection will also be sent unchanged - in which case if you don't have a DCD-A or SACD player you could use that for a pure Analog from the CD player?

I might as well just connect the 1072 via the dig coax for peace of mind.

Personally I would definitely connect it as well. That for (at the very least) for anything other than pure stereo you can enjoy the sound of the C2's DACs etc. Having both connected and A/Bing is the best way to be sure.

Geoff, how long did it take to get your hands on the Silver coax from Doug? Im a very impatient person

Doug tends to make these and ship then in 3 or 4 days (after 2-3 days "cooking" in his Audio Dharma cable cooker). If I were you I'd order one today and you should have it mid week (in the USA). I’d just do it – you won’t regret!

Geoff

[SpOoNmAn]

Geoff you rock! Thanks for the input.

Im going to pick her up, I'll leave feedback later as to my findings. Ill be ordering that cable as well :T

[DrBoom]

I just had to try it myself, to see how the C2 handles the difference between digital coax and analog connection with the RCD1072.
I couldn't bear leaving it in it's carton much longer, and only trying it with the Rotel 1098, I had to compare (yet again) :roll:
Well after a good hour of switching back and forth between the digital and analog connection, in a dark room with my eyes closed (which really lets you hear a lot more) I can say a few thing about the differences.
First, the width of the soundstage.
With the digital connection, the soundstage goes very little beyond the speakers, resulting in an accurate but not so wide presentation.
The analog connection has a waaay more wider soundstage, but less accurate placement.
Another thing the analog connection does (or maybe it's the cable, can't tell), is bringing the singer way up front, where the digital one puts him a lot more to the rear.
This creates more depth though, where the analog connection seems to pull everything to the front but loses some depth.
There is also a bit more lower midrange with the digital connection, something I had already noticed on the 1098.
The RCD1072 has somewhat of a lean midrange, especially noticeable on male voices. (I used Nils Lofgren - Acoustic Live for testing)

So in short, the digital connection gives you a very accurate presentation, albeit with a seemingly small soundstage, and good depth.
There is a good distance between you and the singer too.
The analog connection gives a very wide (and high) soundstage, like a wall of sound coming at you, with the singer right up front with everything else.
More dynamic and dramatic, but it sacrifices some depth by making everything sound very close to you.
Which one is truly better is a difficult choice, the analog one is more spectacular, but the digital one is more intimate and relaxing.

Tomorrow I'll do the same test again with the Rotel RSP1098, just to see how it compares there.
Up untill now I haven't really used the digital connection a lot on that one, because I like the bypass feature.
Oh and on the C2, I used the multichannel inputs so it's also pure analog bypass mode.

I'm very curious what your findings are going to be.