A Tale of Rotel Woe...

[Nick Danger]

Hello Everyone. This is my first post, and I'm sad to say it is a tale of woe and misery.
I purchased the RSP 1068 and RMB 1095 at the end of December 2003 from a local dealer. This was my first foray into separates, having found my Yamaha V1400 lacking in power to drive the rear channels. For the first couple of months, I was a happy camper. Then, in March, I noticed a buzz emanating from all 5 tweeters. The search for a fix began - we tried various power conditioners (after the usual switching and changing interconnects), but when the Monster HTPS 7000 failed to correct the buzz, I resigned myself to it, primarily because you had to get close to the tweeter to hear it, so it wasn't a huge deal. Then in June, the real trouble began. The right rear channel started, intermittently at first, to produce a distorted sound that was louder than the other channels. The dealer was at a loss. When I returned from a weeks vacation in early July, the right front channel was dead! Swithching cables from left to right moved the problem, so I sent the amp in to be checked out - no music for three weeks! Teh amp apparently checked out fine by the Ontario repair center, so I had to send in the processor. The Ontario repair center determined that there was some sort of major fault with the unit and had to send it to the US for repair (why call it a repair center when they can't fix a unit? Perhaps they should rename it the assessment center?). In any event, the amp was sent back and the dealer was able to lend me a Rotel RSP 976 processor and everything actually worked for the first weekend - I was able to use the OSD for settings and watch movies in surround again!
A week later, the intermittent distortion from the right rear speaker started up AGAIN! CAbles are fine, switching the cables moved the problem, swithcing interconnects had no effect etc, etc, etc.
Either I have the same fault on two separate Rotel surround processors from different years, or I have both a defective Rotel processor and a defective Rotel amp!
Has anyone experienced anything remotely similar to this? Any suggestions?
I am at the point where I want to just give up and start all over again with another manufacturer - and that's a whole new world of headaches!

Yours in agony!
Nick Danger
*wouldn't it be cool if your name really was Nick Danger?*

[Azeke]

Nick,

That indeed is a woeful tale.

I can't say that I have experienced your issue, but I am certain that the forum members here will provide some useful advice.

Hang in there,

Azeke

[aud19]

Sorry to hear about your troubles I'd find it hard to believe that two totally seperate models of processors would have the same problem but who knows? You may want to do a search on here for posts made by Aussie Geoff regarding the 1095/1080 and humming as he's been great at troubleshooting problems for the few people who've had issues and has found some great and succesful solutions. Other than that you may want to just get your dealer to exchange the amp and processor units. If the problem persists after that perhaps you have some electrical issues in your home?

I'm sure Andrew will see this soon as well and will do everything in his power to help you out

Jason

[Andrew Pratt]

I'll pass this thread along to Rotel but as the others said I find it very odd that two seperate units both showed the same problem..still you obviously have an issue that needs to addressed. I'd try swapping out the gear one last time just to remove all doubt but we'll see what your dealer and Rotel can do for you.

[GosonFletchy]

You know what I would suggest. When you get the unit back, whichever speaker usually is the one that starts with the problem, switch it to another channel. Then see if the same speaker is the one to start with the problem, or if it stays in the same channel. If it follows the speaker, then I would say that there is something wrong with the speaker that is slowly destroying the processor. If it stays in the same channel, then I would say that the amp is destroying the processor and see if your dealer will authorize a swap of some kind. Does this make sense to anyone else?

G.

:huh:

[SpOoNmAn]

makes perfect sense. Id start with that speaker, seeing as with 2 different procs, it started with that same channel. Very odd indeed, but you gotta start troubleshooting something different. Id be surprised if it was the speaker, but at this point, it cant hurt to eliminate ALL doubts.

[Fred7]

I wouldn't think that a speaker would be blowing the processor but I did have a speaker a few years ago that blew out the channel on the receiver that it was hooked up to. Unfortunately that happened twice before I realized that it was the speaker that was doing it. For a while it sounded okay and then it would sound worse and worse. It may have been acting up before I noticed it but since it was a surround speaker I wouldn't have noticed it as much as if it were one of the fronts. The second time the receiver blew up I suspected the speaker, and since it was only a cheap one I cut the speaker apart to find out that the coil was actually scorched.

[hamiltong]

I've got a quick question:

Are you running any sources into the RSP's multi-channel inputs? ie: SACD or DVDA?

Reason I ask about this is Rotel has indicate an issue with low level hum/buzz from all speakers when using these inputs on the RSP-1068.

Another possible problem/issue is grounding problems.. A quick test is to find any old 3-prong power cable and cut the ground pin off it. Hook it up (directly from the wall - no power conditioners) to your power amp and see if that helps any (temporary test - not permanent). This would point to grounding problems with your electrical.

BTW - I've had all sorts of weird problems with my 1068/1095 combo.. Spent months trying to fix things. I'm on my 3rd 1068 & 2nd 1095.

[Don]

I too have this issue, hum/buzz coming from my RSX-1056 to all 5 speakers. This happens intermittently and I have tried isolating each connections at the back of the unit. But could not figure out what's causing it. If I turn it OFF then ON it goes away until the next time it hums or buzzes. This is very annoying.

I emailed rotel's help support and was informed to upgrade software and reset to factory defaults. This did not work either.

Perhaps rotel could look into this issue and provide some resolution.

Don.

[Nick Danger]

I did switch the speaker cables (l to r) and the distortion moved - which is why I concluded that it's either the amp or the processor that is the problem, as opposed to the speakers. I have even purchased new speaker cable and the problem continues. The other problem is that it is intermittent, which makes it difficult to repeat on command, making it that much more difficult to convince the dealer that the problem exists.

I have resigned myself to the buzz coming from the tweeters as it is only audible when you get up close to the speakers, and I don't want to waste my time trying to trouble shoot it - the real problem is the distortion from the right rear channel!

FYI, no one from Rotel has contacted me, and I have not heard that the dealer has been contacted as of yesterday.

The processor has been returned to the dealer from Rotel, and they are now trying to make the time to come and install it so that they can also hear the distortion.

When I went into separates, I was hoping for a more positive experience.

Nick Danger

[GosonFletchy]

If you are in contact with your dealer, and your dealer is obviously in contact with Rotel, then why would Rotel contact you? I would think that you would want to just keep contact with your dealer and let them hash it out with Rotel. No need to get the same information from two different sources.

G. :grab:

[Azeke]

If you are in contact with your dealer, and your dealer is obviously in contact with Rotel, then why would Rotel contact you? I would think that you would want to just keep contact with your dealer and let them hash it out with Rotel. No need to get the same information from two different sources.

G. :grab:

G, perhaps this was based on Andrew's conections with Rotel.

Regards,

Azeke

[Blazar]

I have a similar problem with the 1098, my center channel goes out from time to time and other times I lose sound from ALL speakers and only a buzz comes from them.

It's not always reporducible once it goes away... seemingly randomly. The power switch on/off doesn't solve the problem. Miraculously everything works again for no reason.

I just turned it in for service... hopefully they get it fixed. It's been doing this more and more since I bought the thing.

[Nick Danger]

G
The reason that I mentioned that no one from Rotel has contacted me was because I had read Andrew's post about the tech guys at Rotel being genuinely concerned about resolving issues, and I had assumed that he had passed along my issues to Rotel.

The only obvious issue that I knew Rotel was concerned with was repairing the defective 1066, and I guess I expected that someone at Rotel would have been curious and contacted me or the dealer about the other unresolved but recurring issue about the right rear channel distortion.

This is directed at anyone who cares to reply: Am I being unreasonable, or my expectations too high? I spoke to the store owner on Monday after they left me a message stating that the 1066 was back. When I asked him what they were going to do about the recurring distortion issue, he said that the sales guy would bring over the unit to install it and listen to the distortion at the same time, so that they could report it to Rotel. When I called the sales guy yesterday before noon, he said he would have to figure out a time when he could do that. I haven't heard from him today, Wednesday at 1:00pm. I expect that he will want to be coming over during business hours, which means more work interuption to deal with a problem that is not of my making. Should I be getting steamed, or should I seek an appropriate chant to lower my blood pressure and expectations?

Nick Danger

[aud19]

Well it sounds to me that the dealer is trying to do what it can to correct and verify the problem so I can understand your dissapointment that the equipment hasn't worked as it should but they do seem to be genuine in their attempt to rectify the problem, including coming to your house....

Jason

[GosonFletchy]

It is allways frustrating when something goes wrong. It does sound like you are getting all the support that they can give. I can understand you being upset, but try and put yourself in their shoes and see it from the other side. They are trying to work with you to achieve a desired goal.

G
:grab:

[Nick Danger]

Hello, All:

Well, the dealer came over last Tuesday to install the repaired? new? 1066, and lo and behold, it seems that all of my issues have been resolved! The distortion from the right rear channel has disappeared and I am now listening to sweet sounds from 5.1 and stereo sources!

Thanks to Rotel for fixing the problem (and for politely disregarding my ranting emails!).

According to the dealer, they have provided me a replacement unit (I haven't checked the serial number).

Now I have to go back to class - Patience 101!

Thanks to all for your suggestions - with any luck, you'll never hear from me again (unless it's to try and pass on what I learn in Patience 101 to some other unfortunate, or to make a helpful suggestion!)!

Nick Danger

[aud19]

Well glad to hear it was resolved :T As you can see Rotel's customer service, on the rare occasions something goes wrong, is quite good

Hope you stick around and enjoy the gear

Jason

[Nick Danger]

RSP 1066 and RMB 1095

Well, well.

When I got home last night to listen to some music, guess what?

Yup, the distortion from the right rear channel AGAIN.

The dealer has indictated that Rotel has offered a new amp, so I'm turning this one in too!

Two out of three defective pieces from Rotel! What are the odds of that?

Nick Danger

[Mark_C.]

If this is truly a second unit and it's doing the same thing, then I have to wonder if there isn't something wrong with your room/setup.

[aud19]

Or that speaker...

Jason

[Cracking Oboe]

Interconnects?

It isn't a problem with your cables is it? Speaker cables or interconnects that were previously bent, kinked or stepped upon? They can cause intermittent problems like you are describing.

Just a thought.

[Nick Danger]

Cables, room, power...

I had problems when the units were plugged into a Monster HTPS 7000 - didn't help.
I have tried plugging the amp directly into the wall outlet - no change. Don't forget, these units seemed to work fine for the first three months!

I switched the interconnects from Monster to Transparent - no change. I switched back again and installed a new Monster cable - nothing.

The distortion is intermittent - sometimes it is there when I power up the system, sometimes it appears after some time. When it is there, the problem occurs no matter what source I am listening to - stereo or multi-channel. What changes is that in stereo, it only manifests itself whith a loud hum, in multi-channel, the sound can come out louder and distorted.

The problem moves to the left rear speaker when I switch the speaker cables from right to left. It does not move when I switch the interconnects from right to left.

[Zzap]

The problem moves to the left rear speaker when I switch the speaker cables from right to left. It does not move when I switch the interconnects from right to left.

I'm presuming here that you moved the cables at the amp business end.

You can eliminate the processor - the problem did not move when moving the interconnects.

If it was the speaker then the problem would have been stationary when moving the speaker cables - it was not.

You've even bought new speaker cables - same problem.

Thus is seems to be the amp by process of elimination.

[aarsoe]

A couple of questions, as there a number things that are not quite clear..

Is your 1095 powered all the time? Ie. do you turn it off after use?
Where is your amp placed? In the open, a rack, in a closet?
How hot does the amp get?
Is it hotter in one side than the other?
Is your amp grounded?
What kind of speaker cables do you use? (thinking about high capacity cables.) And are they the same all around?
What kind of speakers do you have?
Are all your interconnects running to the amp identical?

All something that could point a finger in a certain direction..

[Nick Danger]

Thank you, Zzap, for acknowledging that the logic in locating the source of the problem is valid! (What the heck is that a picture of?)

In response to Aarsoe's questions:
- the amp is set up using the twelve volt trigger switch and is powered on when the processor is.
- the amp and other components are on an audio rack placed near the wall in the living room area.
- the amp gets warm to the touch - I presume that hot would mean that it causes discomfort when touched. I have not noticed that it is hotter on one side.
- I presume that the amp is grounded by the three prong power cord.
- I use Kimber 8TC for the front channels and Nordost Gold flat speaker wire for the rears.
- I have Paradigm Studio 80s for the front L&R, and Paradigm Refererence 450 for the center and rear speakers.
- I am currently using Monster interconnects for the processor to amp connection. I have also tried Transparent Link 100s. (I really like the Transparent cable sound, but they are so darned expensive!)

I do not believe that the interconnects are the problem for the reasons described by Zzap!

In any event, I await the replacement amp from Rotel.

Nick Danger

[Zzap]

Thank you, Zzap, for acknowledging that the logic in locating the source of the problem is valid!

No problemo!

I do not believe that the interconnects are the problem for the reasons described by Zzap!

Unless - as Cracking Oboe suggests - it's because of faulty wiring :E but I figure you've already checked every inch

What the heck is that a picture of?

Why it's a picture of my pet goat the day it got it's first Rotel unit :W

[aarsoe]

Nick

The cables you use for your rear speakers (Nordost flatline) are well known for being problematic due to their extremely high capacitance (I know I am misspelling it!! I think.. ops: )
All in all they could be a source of problems, maybe you should try something else..

They would also hit the nail on the problem description as this is not a connect with immidiate error issue - more like the sneaking death. I actually recall a review were another Rotel amp got killed by using Nordost cables, but that was a much smaller integrated unit.

So my conclusion would be (and it is only a guess) that you cables made the 1095 get into trouble -the front channel problem could very well be linked as it is on the same power supply and the 976 is surely less able to handle high capacity than your 1095, so no wonder about that one.

[aarsoe]

Oh - and your hiss from all the speakers sound like something all of us have to live with when using 1066 or 1068 units..

[Nick Danger]

Aarsoe,

The problem began before I picked up the Nordost cable - I was using some Cambridge Audio flat cable (for going under carpet). The dealer did not comment on those being a concern! I think that the amp has always had this intermitent defect, and may have also negatively affected the previous preamp! I hope I'm wrong, since I am still waiting for the new amp, and all I need is for the new amp to get delivered after the existing one affects the new processor!

Nick

[DrBoom]

The cables you use for your rear speakers (Nordost flatline) are well known for being problematic due to their extremely high capacitance

Nordost is anything but high-capacitance cable, the Flatline Gold is only 8.6 pf/ft, so let's say you're running 30 ft of cable to your rears that's about 260 pF of capacitance.
Now let's look at some other numbers, Kimber 4TC is 48 pF/ft, 8TC is 110 pF/ft and to top it off the Bi-Focal with a whopping 1500 pF/ft. :B
Sure puts the Nordost in a different light doesn't it ?

Oh and by the way, the Rotel poweramps (my 1075 did anyway) have output inductors in the signal path, to compensate for excessive capacitance which might occur after the amplifier (cables or speakers) and which might otherwise destroy it due to oscillation.
So they should be pretty safe from that, and I've never heard a speaker cable destroying an amp because it's "high capacitance".
There sure would be a lot of angry Kimber Kable users out there if that were the case

[aarsoe]

Dr Boom

I could of course be wrong, all I have to base this view on is what I have read over the years in the hifi press - and flatline cables have alwayes been described as being tricky at best when it comes to load on amps..
Anyway - hope your problem will be solved..

[BladeRnR]

Nick sorry to hear about your Rotel problems. From Sithlord and my experience with Rotel we found the 12Volt triggers were the cause of some strange anomalies with our HT setup. We don't have the Rotel 1095 anymore but when we did (And removed the 12Volt triggers) all the problems disappeared. Specifically the Sub would cut out intermittantly.

Remove the 12Volt triggers and retest.

Cheers and good luck :T

[Nick Danger]

To close off this tale, Rotel delivered the amp in the last week of September, and the new amp and processor have been working flawlessly, both in digital and analogue, since then. I am a happy camper, and believe it or not, upgraditis has me thinking of the RSP 1098 (especially since I upgraded the interconnects to Kingcat Silver!)!

Nick Danger

[Andrew Pratt]

Nick the 1098's lives in a whole other league...you'll like it if you dare to listen