Rcd 1520 cd player

[style]

Hi,

I have a 1520 in test. at today is connect with a coax cables to the SSP800 from Classe. (= is a drvie using the Dac from the Classe)


but what do you think from this player?

a Pioneer d9mkII will be better? others players?

thx Style

[specialized]

Hi,

I have a 1520 in test. at today is connect with a coax cables to the SSP800 from Classe. (= is a drvie using the Dac from the Classe)


but what do you think from this player?

a Pioneer d9mkII will be better? others players?

thx Style

I found out that there is no need of CD players anymore.. Good External DAC and Transport is the way to go.. The way u test it's not showing the performance of Rotel 1520. U are testing only as transport (i never had a chance to listen 1520, but my RCD-1072 is weak transport compared to Pioneer DVD 610 which i have


Greetings

[style]

hi specialized,
thanks for the feedback.

i agree. today is a Dac battle....in every case a cd player vs. a dvd player have a different velocity to turn the cd inside.

I have the dvd/cd player too but a pure cd made only for cd will be besser vs. a "all in one" you know?

the Dac make the difference sure but the player is a important point to listen music.
I'm not ready for a single source for "liquid music"! a cd player is a "status" in a system.....


style

[madmac]

hi specialized,
thanks for the feedback.

i agree. today is a Dac battle....in every case a cd player vs. a dvd player have a different velocity to turn the cd inside.

I have the dvd/cd player too but a pure cd made only for cd will be besser vs. a "all in one" you know?

the Dac make the difference sure but the player is a important point to listen music.
I'm not ready for a single source for "liquid music"! a cd player is a "status" in a system.....


style

As stated above, by using the coax and getting the DAC conversion done externally you are essentially using the CD player as a simple transport. It is only sending the 1's and 0's to the processor to be converted there. I'm not a huge believer that a 'transport' makes a huge difference in sound at all. The DAC conversion is essentially everything in how the CD is going to sound at the end of the day. Blindfolded, I would be surprised if anyone could tell what unit was being used as a 'transport' in relation to the end sound.

[specialized]

[QUOTE=style]hi specialized,
thanks for the feedback.

i agree. today is a Dac battle....in every case a cd player vs. a dvd player have a different velocity to turn the cd inside.

I have the dvd/cd player too but a pure cd made only for cd will be besser vs. a "all in one" you know?

Not as transport.. In my Case Pioneer it's even better transport then Rotel RCD-1072. If u use it as CD Player i agree with u (but again DAC's in CD Player, Power Supply... make a difference), compared to some of DVD's (it's not absolute form, like every CD should be better then DVD. Oppo Blue Ray it's better then Rotel CD Player for example..

the Dac make the difference sure but the player is a important point to listen music.

Hmm Again.. U ARE NOT TESTING AS PLAYER.. Only As transport..

I'm not ready for a single source for "liquid music"! a cd player is a "status" in a system.....

For me Quality of sound it's status in my system.. It's a not a status if u spend a lot of money and at the end u are not getting the quality u like. In my system i discover that Benchmark DAC1 Pre sound much better then Mcintosh c2300 + Rotel RCD-1072.. I also compared to much more expensive CDP. At the end i sold C2300 and trying to seell RCD-1072 and not even thinking to buy expensive CDp (but i think to buy new Oppo Blue Ray). Try it with open mind, maybe u'r opionion what is "status" in u'r system would be changed Also if u ask me DAC in u'r Classe is very good so u need just a transport and u dont need to spend money on CDP, specialy way u are using it.. The only point to keep it is if u buy it just based on look and brand..

Greetings

Darko

[hurin]

As stated above, by using the coax and getting the DAC conversion done externally you are essentially using the CD player as a simple transport. It is only sending the 1's and 0's to the processor to be converted there. I'm not a huge believer that a 'transport' makes a huge difference in sound at all.

The 1's and 0's get stored in a buffer, the DAC then reads them from the buffer. It is impossible for the transport to make a difference, unless the transport is really, really bad.

[specialized]

The 1's and 0's get stored in a buffer, the DAC then reads them from the buffer. It is impossible for the transport to make a difference, unless the transport is really, really bad.

Like Rotel RCD-1072 which is i guess really bad transport (too much jitter (at least test's say that )
Also on my DAC1 can't notice sound difference but blue light when i use Pioneer DVD it's solid , and when i use Rotel as transport is blinking..
Also when i compare dac in Rotel and Dac in Benchmark i can't believe how big difference can be (i have also been close minded and brand loyal.. Until i have a chance to get audition DAC1 from 1500 USD vs McIntosh Preamp+CDP from 10000 USD For my ears DAC1 sounded better (MCintosh C2300 + MCD201)


Greetings


Darko

[style]

hi,

a Classe cdp102 is not at the level from your price. Classe self say me that a cdp102 is not a "good" player to be connect with xlr cabel to the SSP800.
with a cdp102 a coax cabel is much better.....= this reason say me buy a "unexpensive" player as simple transport/drive.

a cdp202 is another history: with the dac inside give with a xlr cables a good sound. but my ratio music/movie is more vs, movie! I don't will invest usd. 8k. for a cd player for listen 5 hr. music pro month!!!

a separet Dac is a solution: but better at wht is present in the SSP800 = go with other vs. the Benchmark!
of course the I test the transport, the drive! I dont think that a cd player form usd. 1000.- is better a sound that the SSP800 give me!
I have the the Pioneer lx91 (09 in usa?) and the Denon 3800. a Oppo 95 will be a very good update wenn will be available in Switzerland....
I search a cd player / drive that give me satisfaction. I have try a Primare cd31, a Primaluna tube, a Mc 871, Denon1510. (the Mcintosh is a Denon inside! i dont like...)

a rotel rcd1520 is a pssible solution in this price level: other can be a Marantz sa8003 or the pioneer d09mk2..

a Dac from Chord or a Ayre can be in the future a upgrade.

[lastexit]

The 1's and 0's get stored in a buffer, the DAC then reads them from the buffer. It is impossible for the transport to make a difference, unless the transport is really, really bad.

Some people claim to hear huge differences in transports while others claim no differences. In my experience, I find there to be a difference but it's not as night and day as I would have thought. Still, I prefer my older Sony DVP-S999ES DVD/CD player over my Rotel RCD-1072 for CD only playback on the coaxial out to my DAC. In my system, the Sony transport offers better dynamics and clarity for each individual instrument. The RCD-1072 sounds dull and closed in; everything is a bit smaller.

Again, not a night and day difference but noticeable enough in that I find the Sony much more musically enjoyable.

[madmac]

Some people claim to hear huge differences in transports while others claim no differences. In my experience, I find there to be a difference but it's not as night and day as I would have thought. Still, I prefer my older Sony DVP-S999ES DVD/CD player over my Rotel RCD-1072 for CD only playback on the coaxial out to my DAC. In my system, the Sony transport offers better dynamics and clarity for each individual instrument. The RCD-1072 sounds dull and closed in; everything is a bit smaller.

Again, not a night and day difference but noticeable enough in that I find the Sony much more musically enjoyable.

Sony beats Rotel ???? Sacrilegious statement in the Club Rotel forum !! :E

[hurin]

Some people claim to hear huge differences in transports while others claim no differences. In my experience, I find there to be a difference but it's not as night and day as I would have thought. Still, I prefer my older Sony DVP-S999ES DVD/CD player over my Rotel RCD-1072 for CD only playback on the coaxial out to my DAC. In my system, the Sony transport offers better dynamics and clarity for each individual instrument. The RCD-1072 sounds dull and closed in; everything is a bit smaller.

This is not logical. Unless the player does some preprocessing on the signal the 1's and 0' should be identical.
To test it one would need to hook the players to a PC. Record the signals and compare them.

[lastexit]

This is not logical. Unless the player does some preprocessing on the signal the 1's and 0' should be identical.
To test it one would need to hook the players to a PC. Record the signals and compare them.

Well I can only say what I'm hearing. It's small but noticeable. If I didn't hear a difference, the Rotel would still be in my rack.

[CllessuR]

I'm not a huge believer that a 'transport' makes a huge difference in sound at all.

I'd suggest you've never been in a position to listen to the differences. There's a lot more to digital sound than 0 and 1, that's for sure. Stop and think about it, the transport also has the laser reading device....and you dont think there's any difference to be made there? That's like saying "its all the cartridge, the turntable doenst make any difference". You couldn't be more wrong. Many dont care to explore this, once they got the DAC the "transport" is whatever the player was before DAC purchase.

That said, it doesnt have to be an expensive one necessarily, the DIY Shiga clone of Peter Daniels used the transport from a boom box.....not any boom box, but a particular one that used an excellent transport.....others dont sound as well....

Cllessur

[CllessuR]

This is not logical. Unless the player does some preprocessing on the signal the 1's and 0' should be identical.
To test it one would need to hook the players to a PC. Record the signals and compare them.

You obviously have only a very basic understanding of how digital works. The 0 and 1 are not identical, that's part of the digital myth. Everything and anything in the player can affect the sound, including the case. Very logical, you just need the information is all.

A single topic (among many) I would suggest you look into is "Jitter"... that alone should send your beliefs reeling!

Cllessur

[CllessuR]

The 1's and 0's get stored in a buffer, the DAC then reads them from the buffer. It is impossible for the transport to make a difference, unless the transport is really, really bad.

No offense intended, but you have no idea what you are talking about! You have skipped so many places that the signal can get disturbed it isnt funny. Please, if you are uncertain of what you are talking about, dont make huge generalizations as fact.

"Its impossible for the transport to make a difference"? I cant even believe you said that on the world wide web. Seriously folks, this is B.S. deluxe.

The transport as well as everything else, including how it is wired and layed out can make a difference in sound. Sorry to go off, but if you dont know something, inquire about how you feel about it and ask. Just boldly asserting something is impossible shows a total lack of knowledge on the subject on your part....plus, people even less informed come through here and read this and may think it is fact.

OK, I'm done.

Cllessur (Elsewhere known as russellC)

[hurin]

There's a lot more to digital sound than 0 and 1, that's for sure

No there definitely isn't more to it, digital by definition is 1's and 0's.

[hurin]

I would suggest you look into is "Jitter"... that alone should send your beliefs reeling!

Cllessur

Jitter is a myth, same as $10000 cables. A reciever of a digital signal will buffer it, thus eliminating jitter.

[hurin]

Seriously folks, this is B.S. deluxe.

Saying something is BS does not make it so. You have so far offered nothing a evidence to the contrary. Saying you can hear a difference is not evidence.

[CllessuR]

No there definitely isn't more to it, digital by definition is 1's and 0's.

You've done it again! Yes that's a very simple definition, what it doesnt address is the conversion process, from player input to Transport to output,
Let alone how that affects the eventual analog signal.

But I'm sure you know more than all the design guys. If you all want to believe this slop, be my guest...none of this is new, at least to the informed. It is quite apparent your understanding is limited here on how digital works.

You've got a lot of reading to do son, get hopping!

Cllessur

[CllessuR]

Saying something is BS does not make it so. You have so far offered nothing a evidence to the contrary. Saying you can hear a difference is not evidence.

Ask those that know, you'll find no one agreeing with you.

Cllessur

[CllessuR]

Saying something is BS does not make it so. You have so far offered nothing a evidence to the contrary. Saying you can hear a difference is not evidence.

You've offered none either, by the way, except your opinion. Practice what you preach.

[CllessuR]

Jitter is a myth, same as $10000 cables. A reciever of a digital signal will buffer it, thus eliminating jitter.

Wait a minute, jitter is a myth, but you know how to buffer it out? Ok I'm done here, I'm remembering a lesson me mum taught me about whom not to argue with! :W

[lastexit]

Jitter is a myth. A reciever of a digital signal will buffer it, thus eliminating jitter.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe jitter is entirely eliminated by the receiver. I'm sure some receivers do a better job than others, but there's still jitter on the output signal. For instance, my Wolfson WM8804's intrinsic output jitter is 50ps.

[lastexit]

It is impossible for the transport to make a difference, unless the transport is really, really bad. Saying you can hear a difference is not evidence.

You claim that it is not "logical" and more importantly, impossible, to hear audible differences in transports (like my Sony and Rotel) yet there can be differences if a transport is "really, really bad." What signifies a bad transport to you? You've already claimed that digital is merely 1's and 0's and nothing more.

[specialized]

[QUOTE=CllessuR]You obviously have only a very basic understanding of how digital works. The 0 and 1 are not identical, that's part of the digital myth. Everything and anything in the player can affect the sound, including the case. Very logical, you just need the information is all.

A single topic (among many) I would suggest you look into is "Jitter"... that alone should send your beliefs reeling!



And i would suggest that there is difference or not based of the DAC or receiver who decode the signal For Example Benchmark DAC1 Have Ultra Clock (eliminate the jitter from the transport with reclocking the signall), so almost all transport would sound exactly the same.. If u use DAC with not that kind of Jitter rejection then u are right.. Transport make a difference


Greetings

Darko

p.s. I test the Benchmark with Ultra expensive Wadia transport vs dvd as transport.. I did not feel any difference. Also on Benchmark i can't notice any difference betwen coaxial and optical cable.. On my ex DAC (Musical Fidelity V-DAC there was a difference from transport to transport and from optical to coaxial cable / oputput

[specialized]

Jitter is a myth, same as $10000 cables. A reciever of a digital signal will buffer it, thus eliminating jitter.

Depened.. It's not always the case.. Sometimes jitter destroy the sound and transport mean , and sometimes (DAC1 is very good example), i can't notice deifference from tranpost to transport.. About cables.. I would never spend 10 000 for cable, but cables make difference to the sound..(it's not always that more expensive cable should sound better compared to cheaper.. In my setup cheaper cable sound better then 3 times more expensive)


Greetings

Darko

[style]

sorry specialized,

you have the DAC 1 or what for model?

you go from the Dac with cinch cabel to the player and than to the receiver/preampli in by-pass modus?

thanks style

[specialized]

sorry specialized,

you have the DAC 1 or what for model?

you go from the Dac with cinch cabel to the player and than to the receiver/preampli in by-pass modus?

thanks style

Im using DAC1 Pre , and i dont use preamp anymore.. DAC1 Pre directly to the Krell AMP using balanced cables.. And as transport im using Pioneer DVD 610 , connected via Coaxial cable. Also im playing a lot of music directly from computer via usb cable connected to DAC1 (24 bit flacs in 96 , 88 and 48 Khz)

Before as preamp i was using McIntosh C2300 and this way (without preamp) sound better at least in my setup

Greetings

Darko

[specialized]

sorry specialized,

you have the DAC 1 or what for model?

you go from the Dac with cinch cabel to the player and than to the receiver/preampli in by-pass modus?

thanks style

Here im sending two links which can be interesteging

1. Some of opinion from user about DAC1 (i totaly agree with this comments)

http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/03/benchmark-dac1-pre.html

2. Jitter

http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/appnotes-d/jittercu

greetings

Darko

[madmac]

Well.....good thread guys!!.My opinion??.... Do to the nature of digital sound, a transport should make little or no difference in sound when using an external DAC. DO NOT compare this to Vinyl....it's NOT the same. Same with the laser assembly to read digital discs....It either reads the pits and sends the 1's and 0's or it doesn't. Optical digital cables?? No difference either. It's a light beam carrying pulses of light. It either gets there or it doesn't. Coax cables?? Maybe but probably not audible by the human ear.

I dare anyone here to do a proper blindfold test and disprove this (100% properly choosing what transport they are listening to 100% of the time). NOT gonna' happen!!.

I agree with Hurin 100%

[hurin]

Maybe I see things differently because I was into computers before I became an audiophile. The way many audiophiles talk about digital signals is complete voodoo to me.

Jitter is noise, ideally every bit should be transmitted with the exact same time interval between them. But in real life one bit may be delayed by a few ps. and the next will be early by a few ps.
However CD sound is 16 bit, so the DAC does not read the signal bit by bit, the signal gets buffered, and the DAC then reads it 16 bits at a time. Doing so removes the jitter. So yes jitter is present but it gets eliminated in the buffer.

[specialized]

[QUOTE=madmac]Well.....good thread guys!!.My opinion??.... Do to the nature of digital sound, a transport should make little or no difference in sound when using an external DAC.

Nope It depend from the DAC u are using.. How jitter reduction is implemented or not

Optical digital cables?? No difference either. It's a light beam carrying pulses of light. It either gets there or it doesn't. Coax cables?? Maybe but probably not audible by the human ear.

Again depend from the DAC or receiver u USE Some of them have poor Optical In

I dare anyone here to do a proper blindfold test and disprove this (100% properly choosing what transport they are listening to 100% of the time). NOT gonna' happen!!.

It happened On V-DAC that i had before.. Optical and Coaxial sounded different (not worst or better, but different). On Benchmark i can't feel any difference..


Greetings

Darko

[lastexit]

Well.....good thread guys!!.My opinion??.... Do to the nature of digital sound, a transport should make little or no difference in sound when using an external DAC. DO NOT compare this to Vinyl....it's NOT the same. Same with the laser assembly to read digital discs....It either reads the pits and sends the 1's and 0's or it doesn't. Optical digital cables?? No difference either. It's a light beam carrying pulses of light. It either gets there or it doesn't. Coax cables?? Maybe but probably not audible by the human ear.

I dare anyone here to do a proper blindfold test and disprove this (100% properly choosing what transport they are listening to 100% of the time). NOT gonna' happen!!.

I agree with Hurin 100%

Magmac, have you ever compared two transports side by side? I'm curious as to what you're findings are if you have.

[style]

hi guys,

after a week test I decide to retorn the rcd1520 the Rotel.

i a good player, all metal, not plastic like a lot of the other playser in the same price class but the sound is a little to closed...--> USED AT DRIVE.

with a old denon 3930 (from long time in my cave) I 'm very happy!

the Marantz 8003 or better the cambridge 840 is next target.

@spec: hx for the DAC1 using modus ...this Dac was in my list from time but now I NEED to have one for testing :T

style

[madmac]

Magmac, have you ever compared two transports side by side? I'm curious as to what you're findings are if you have.

I use the DACs's within my Marantz CD player and send the signal via the RCA uts to my Rotel because it does a better job at DAC conversion than the DAC's within my Rotel Receiver.

I did try both my Marantz and my Oppo dvd as a transport letting the Rotel do the DAC conversion. Using a A/B comparison using the same cd in both simultaneously. I was not blindfolded but the sound was identical out of both since they were both simple transports and the Rotel was essentially the DAC converter for both. Blindfolded or not, there would be no way to tell the difference. When I let both the Marantz and the Oppo do their own DAC conversion, then the difference becomes much more apparent with the Marantz clearly winning out on the sound front.

[lastexit]

after a week test I decide to retorn the rcd1520 the Rotel.

The RCD-1520 was on my list for quite a while but I eventually decided to go the DAC route. I really wouldn't mind owning the 1520 if I knew it would be a clear improvement over my 1072. Also, the slot loader was the only real turn off for me. I can understand using a slot for space considerations in the RCX-1500, but not in the company's best CD player. Were there any issues with this in your experience with the unit Style?

[style]

hi lastexit,
the 1520 is not a "bad" player! but used with my sistem I dont' have improvement vs. the cd-BD Pioneer lx91 (09 in usa?) or denon 3800 and 3930.

with big surpirse the denon 3800 is more "musical" vs. the pioneer.

for a pure cd player I muss go in another price liga or via a good Dac.

the Slot work very fine! the cd disc with "ject" is very easy to remove: mo problem to "touch"the original track. I don't now with the time if this slot work so good as well but new is perferct.

style

[specialized]

[QUOTE=style]hi lastexit,
the 1520 is not a "bad" player! but used with my sistem I dont' have improvement vs. the cd-BD Pioneer lx91 (09 in usa?) or denon 3800 and 3930.

with big surpirse the denon 3800 is more "musical" vs. the pioneer.


Stype, the way u tested , u didnt test the player at all. U tried just as transport using DAC's in u'r SSP-800 (which should be very good). That the Denon is more musical vs Pioneer are very strange since they are both good transport..If u want to compare as CD Player, then connect them to Classe using Analog out. Still try as much as possible different analogue Interconnects, since maybe interconnect u use is better matched to one player vs other , so can lead u thinking that that's better CDP.

for a pure cd player I muss go in another price liga or via a good Dac.

If u ask me u dont need at all CD Player or even DAC , since DAC's in u'r SSP-800 should be very very good.. Anyway the better or not it's very realtive thing since both dac's can be very good, and to depend from the the personal taste.. If im at u'r place i'll definitly try new OPPO Player since have very high end DAC's, and Oppo have tradition to be good transport..


Also u can compare them to the DAC's in Classe, maybe u'll prefer the CDP compared to classe (Which i dont think so). Do to this connect CDP using analogue interconnects and also digital. Compare analog vs digital (with analog u use CDP dacs and u are using as CD Player, using digital u are using just as transport and using Classe DACS).


Hope i helped u


Greetings

Darko