A few observations.

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  • Opus007
    Senior Member
    • Nov 2007
    • 454

    A few observations.

    Note-Edited:
    Since I have had way to much time on my hands lately due to work being slow and finding myself at home more than I would like I decieded to do some tweaking and testing of my current system.


    In that past few years I have bought and tried numerous high end cables,power conditioners,power filter outlets and added 20 amp dedicated lines.Here are some of my personal findings and remember this is not science and your results and opinions may not be the same.I will not mention cable brands as I know and respect the policy.


    First thing I decieded to try was to remove sources from my ACP H15 power conditioner to improve cd playback as evrything is plugged into the H15.I have 2 Mit Super Z outlets installed on 2 dedicated circuits so I have 4 outlets to use and only one is in use with the Power conditioner.I first removed the amp and noticed a improvment in detail but a slight loss of soundstage and a small loss of warmth but the amp seemed to work less hard and the music seemd faster.Next I removed my preamp and noticed a improvemnt in more air and spaceousness of each individual instrument being played.At this point I was not thrilled with the results as even with the improvement I was not happy with the loss of warmth and soundstage the power conditioner was providing.The power conditioner was coloring the sound,mudding it up a bit and I had grown use to that.


    Next I removed the cd/sacd player a Sony SCD-CE595 I picked up refurbished from sony for 59 bucks .Dont laugh as this is a amazing player especially for the price.I use to have the Rotel 1072 and in my opinion..well we wont go there as I love Rotel.So with the cd player removed and plugged into the Mit Super Z I was now experiencing more warmth added back to music.It was still no where near the warmth and soundstage that the apc power condition was providing though and even with the gains in clarity,airiness, and being able to pick out instuments better I was still liking what I heard with everyting plugged in to the power conditioner.


    I have other ac outlets within reach of my system so I decieded to use a 15amp circuit and remove all conditioning and filtering that the MIt Super Z was giving me.First was the amp.I was now getting more warmth and more bottom end slam and more mid range bass and a better soundstage.I liked this.Then I removed the preamp and the above stayed the same except now the midrange also seemed to open more. And last I removed the cd player and wow wee.It was a whole new system.Bottom end slam was there in abundance and clarity was awesome and voices where silky smooth and soundstage was wider and more open.I liked this alot.I liked it so much I removed the Mit Super Z outlets from the dedicated 20 amp circuits and replaced them with regualar 20 amp outlets.I then plugged the cd player,amp and preamp into the new non filter outlets and there seemed to be all of the above results but with more authority.All of the above testing was done with multiple cd's over a 2 day period.


    So I had to make a decision.Do I want surge protection and piece of mind or do I want the best my system can give me.I have choosen for now the best my system can give me.I will note that not all power conditioners are the same.I have heard that some do no coloration or limiting but in my opinion the APC does limit and color the sound.It does give you piece of mind though.As for the MIT Super Z ,though it does not seem to color my system it does seem to limit it and not by a little but a lot.

    So was I done at this point?No way.I have a couple of big boxes with numerous power cords and interconnects so I was onto to furthering my research.I tried numerous power cords on both the amp and preamp and none where high dollar ones.(the cd player power cord is non removeable)The ones I currently have are the stock cords so can not compare them to high dollar ones.I did try the big thick power cord from the Apc power conditioner to the amp and although there was a slight difference it is so subtle I am not sure if it was for good or bad and I do prefere the stock power cords.


    Next was Interconnects.I will not mention brand.All my interconnects are around 700.00 a pair.Not expensive high end but sort of pricey.I did not give any of the interconnects time to burn in and am or was a firm believer of burnin.I tried some stock interconnets for cdp to pre and pre to amp.Did not like this at all.It wasnt bad it just wasnt real good.I then tried some store bought mass marketed interconnects.This sounded pretty darned good.I mixed and matched highend with mass market and got different results.Some where good and others where different.In the end the high end cables are now sitting in a box.

    What I ended up with that gave me the most out of my system to my liking was the mass produced cables by different manufacuters.I have a set of interconnects(which are digital and the same brand and model)from the cd player to preamp.I have another brand (5 cables ) going from the preamp to amp as my amp is 5 channel.And another brand from pre to subs.I was really surprised with this as I thought that in no way could any of these other interconnects compete or give anything near the the 700.00 interconnects.

    So my conclusion here is yes interconnects do make a difference and not always will a higher end cable do a better job than a good mass produced one.I have tried a lot of different high end cables and each brings strengths and weekness to the table.What may work for you may not work for me.What I have connected in my system really works for me.I was able to keep the airiness,detail,warmth and soudstage with this new interconnect configueration but with a little more added overall.


    So if I was gaining all this from just the cd player I wondered what would be gained from my PS3 for bluray movies and my directv satellite receiver.I added both these units to the non filtered non surge protected circuits.I did not change out any of the hdmi cables or interconnects or digital cables on these units as they are already mass marketed cables.I really like to listen to smooth jazz on the directv music channels but it has never been a real enjoyable experience.Once plugged into the new outlets it brought back a more enjoyable experience.There was a vast improvement. When plugged into the apc power conditioner the music was brittle ,overly bright,fatiging and just awefull.It is now smoother and still has the clarity I like and bass is more exteneded.It is no where near audiophille quailty but tons better than it was.


    Next to the ps3.I have always loved my ps3 for bluray.Yes there are better but for me it has always worked and worked flawlessly.My only concern with the ps3 was I always thought that the main dialog was a little low when my system was configuered properly.I was always boosting the center channel up a db or two.I had contributed this though to my center channel speaker being a piss poor center speaker.Once plugged into the new outlets and off of any filtering this all changed.I configured the speakers with a avia disk then poped in my favorite bluray(Transformers-Revenge of the fallen).From the start of the disk I knew things where different.Before the movie gets going there is the Dream Works thing with the stars going around and it blew my socks off as the sounds of the stars circiling around the room.There was more clarity and punch and my subs where really kicking in.Voices no longer had to be boosted on the center speaker and there where things in the movie I had not heard before.So this all made a tremendous difference in my movie experience. :B


    The whole point of my post is to show that different thing can improve your system.If it does not sound right to you then change something.If that does not make a difference change something else.There are so may things we can do to bring what we have to a pleasurable experence and sometimes at no cost.Do not be affraid to experement.I have also done room corrections and expermented with speaker placement which I will not go into as your room will be differnt than mine.


    I hope this has helped someone who sits there and says that they are not happy with what they have.And as stated above...Your results may not be the same.
    Last edited by Opus007; 29 April 2010, 20:11 Thursday.
  • srb
    Senior Member
    • Oct 2004
    • 311

    #2
    If you have any hope of someone reading your lengthy post, perhaps the use of the Enter key to break it into readable paragraphs would help. As it is, the continuous wall of text is just too daunting.

    Steve

    Comment

    • Opus007
      Senior Member
      • Nov 2007
      • 454

      #3
      Originally posted by srb
      If you have any hope of someone reading your lengthy post, perhaps the use of the Enter key to break it into readable paragraphs would help. As it is, the continuous wall of text is just too daunting.

      Steve
      You do not have to read it or agree.Sorry you can not follow it.I agree it is a lenthy post and what you suggest would probably be helpful but in the end it is what it is.

      Edited: But... after further consideration you are correct and I have edited it to be more reader friendly.This is only my opinion and yours may not be the same.

      Comment

      • srb
        Senior Member
        • Oct 2004
        • 311

        #4
        Originally posted by Opus007
        But... after further consideration you are correct and I have edited it to be more reader friendly. This is only my opinion and yours may not be the same.
        Thanks, I did read through it and no longer lost my place!

        I have a single 20A dedicated circuit. I have a Rotel RLC-1040 power conditioner/voltage regulator, which if I'm not mistaken, is a somewhat rebadged version of the APC H15.

        My power amplifier is plugged directly into the wall outlet and everything else is plugged into the RLC-1040. I felt the amplifier's dynamic range might be compromised going through the conditioner, but have not experimented with trying any of the other components without filtering.

        Like you, I am leary of loosing any surge protection on the other components (the power amplifier doesn't have any integrated circuits and is probably the most electrically sturdy of all of them). I might experiment with trying some of the other components without power conditioning, but if they turn out to sound better, I'm afraid I will be searching for a conditioner/surge protector that does not affect the sound (and maybe even enhances it). The downside is that one of these really good non-restrictive conditioners could cost an arm and a leg.

        Steve

        Comment

        • Opus007
          Senior Member
          • Nov 2007
          • 454

          #5
          I agree that a neutral sounding power condition cost a arm and a leg.And speck wise the one you have and the one I have are identical.It doesnt hurt to experiment.You can always change it back.I may at some point in future return to using the conditioner but for now I am only using it with the tv and my projector.
          Plus I have never had a peice of electrical equipment ever get fried or damaged from a brown out or power outage and even though my power goes up and down it has never damaged anything.Here in the desert we get some pretty high winds and when we do for some reason my power goes up by about 5 volts.I just hope I do not regret my decision to not use the conditioner.

          Comment

          • PewterTA
            Moderator
            • Nov 2004
            • 2901

            #6
            If you want to get rid of your H15, if it's black I've been wanting another one for my RMB-1095. I have the S15BLK and I got (funny as it is) the exact opposite of you when I plugged everything into it. Everything got much much better, soundstage opened up, clarity increased, and the biggest was the "blackness" or "quietness" of my system. I can turn the RSP-1098 (along with the RB-1090) to MAX and I barely hear any hiss from over 4"s away from the tweeter. So I'm looking to put my 1095 and cablebox on another (no need for battery on these) H15 on another circuit.

            Everytime I turn my 1090 on it resets the cable box and having both the 1090 and 1095 on one 15amp circuit isn't too my liking so those two along with my Gigabit wireless router are off the conditioner and on another circuit.

            But if you're wanting to sell it in the future, I'd be willing to talk!

            Glad you found the "synergy" to your system...so many people don't spend enough time trying to find that.... they just go with "whatever's best."

            I know when I changed out my ICs with Silvercats it made a world of difference to my system! Those expensive (really expensive in my book for cables) ICs I was sort of surprised by the fact that you ended up not using them. I think it goes to show that cables (in a fashion) DUE make differences to one's system.
            Digital Audio makes me Happy.
            -Dan

            Comment

            • Opus007
              Senior Member
              • Nov 2007
              • 454

              #7
              My H15 is silver and am not considering selling it at this time .Sorry.
              As a after thought and to make sure my ears were not playing tricks on me I plugged everything back into the power conditioner.All I can say is the power conditioner really does affect the perfomance of my system and not to the good.It makes music sound stripped down of musicality and completly changes the overall sound of my system.Without the power conditioner I have more mid range bass,more lower end bass,wider soundstage,tremendous slam and the pace and musicality is faster,open and joy to listen to.

              Comment

              • Industrial
                Senior Member
                • Mar 2009
                • 213

                #8
                Let us know if you ever find a good power system. I'm running Rotel/B&W setup myself. I have been in a apartment with very stable power for years but Im moving out to house in a few months and fear the power wont be as stable (here I don't even get a flicker when lightning hits nearby)

                Comment

                • Opus007
                  Senior Member
                  • Nov 2007
                  • 454

                  #9
                  Unfortunately the ones that are supposed to not color the sound are a little out of my price range.So I may never get another one unless I hit the lottery and then of course I would upgrade everything .One can only hope.

                  Comment

                  • Industrial
                    Senior Member
                    • Mar 2009
                    • 213

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Opus007
                    Unfortunately the ones that are supposed to not color the sound are a little out of my price range.So I may never get another one unless I hit the lottery and then of course I would upgrade everything .One can only hope.

                    That's what I thought as well...

                    Comment

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