Has Rotel lost their way?

[gianni]

This is the question I'm asking those of you that have experience with the new 15 series AVR's.

I've read 2 pro reviews and both concluded that they did a great job for HT but were lacking for music playback. This is a departure from the 10 series' forte and
and really what set the Rotels apart from the mass market pack.

I do not expect them to compete with quality 2 ch gear but they were always good for AVR's.

Any thoughts?

[tpirovol]

I wonder if the reviewers selected 2ch audio when playing the audio through HDMI or digital I ask becuase the audio sounds much better when 2ch is selected.

Just my 2cents.
Terry

[maxwebster]

This is the question I'm asking those of you that have experience with the new 15 series AVR's.

I've read 2 pro reviews and both concluded that they did a great job for HT but were lacking for music playback. This is a departure from the 10 series' forte and
and really what set the Rotels apart from the mass market pack.

I do not expect them to compete with quality 2 ch gear but they were always good for AVR's.

Any thoughts?

My thoughts, having moved up from the 1066 - is that the 1570 is extremely musical - I have rediscovered my CD's and have newly discovered SACD (via the PS3)

I listen to STEREO 80% of the them - the 1570 is matched with Bryson and Rotel Amps and PROAC and Energy and SVS speakers.

Very satisified with the musicalility (word?) of the 1570, for what it's worth to you.

Thanks

[gianni]

Maxwebster,

Glad to hear that. The 1066 was good in 2 ch analog so if the 1570 is equal or better it should be no slouch. The 1560 as was the case in the 10 series, should have a similar preamp section to the RSP 1570.

Still curious to hear from some 15 series RSX users regarding 2 ch playback but this gives me some hope....at least until I can go have a listen for myself.

[maxwebster]

@gianni

My 1066 was snipped for full analogue bypass from my BD/CD player, and did the job nicely, but I don't miss it in the least.

[Industrial]

I have a 1570, 1565 combo and when its in 2ch mode music is really nice and clear with great "imaging". I'm paying music right now out of 2 B&W CM1's and I can't even tell where the music is really coming from. It kinda surrounds you (and yes center speakers and rears are off ATM). I tested some of the 10's series before I got this combo and actually prefer this. This is all just my opinion

[wkhanna]

I have had the RSP-1066 for three years. It does a great job for HT, but I use my system for 2ch music 90% of the time. Soon after its purchase I added a separate pre-amp for my music sources. As of now, I have a hard time recommending the 1066 for anyone using it for music more than 30%.

IMHO and experience, the old 9 series held forth much better in the area of 2ch music.

[lvhung]

I am the fan Rotel 1066
How terrible it sound the 1068 and 1069

[Legairre]

I have had the RSP-1066 for three years. It does a great job for HT, but I use my system for 2ch music 90% of the time. Soon after its purchase I added a separate pre-amp for my music sources. As of now, I have a hard time recommending the 1066 for anyone using it for music more than 30%.

IMHO and experience, the old 9 series held forth much better in the area of 2ch music.

Same here, for me the 1066 was lacking the 2 channel. To me it was pretty dry and lifeless and after 1 yr of use I had to move on. I hope the 15 series gear sounds worlds better.

[jalyra]

Hello wkhanna,
I just looked at your system, do you still use the Carver c19? Have you had any chance to listen to the Rotel Preamps? If so, how would you compare it to your pre?

I just hope Rotel hasn't lost their way. But I don't see the rationale behind geting out the HT stuff first, and and keep us (the customers) waiting for the 2-channel stuff, where Rotel excels. From my point of view the HT stuff could have benefit form the low sales of the economic recession and give them more time to work out the fine details of the SW and firmware isuues. But I don't know the sales figures for the Rotel 2-channel vs HT and probably the sales for HT are good enough to keep the oxygen to the company coming.

[maxwebster]

Same here, for me the 1066 was lacking the 2 channel. To me it was pretty dry and lifeless and after 1 yr with of use I had to move on. I hope the 15 series gear sounds worlds better.

To your point, I listened to a CD (Patricia Barber, Modern Cool) last night that had distinct distortion on a track with high-level trumpet pieces (Constantinople) on my 1066. I'm glad to report that the distortion is not present with the 1570 8)

Tech note: the distortion was present on both analog and digital input on the 1066, but I only only noticed it on this one CD so I assumed it was a CD issue.

[wkhanna]

Hi jalyra!

Hello wkhanna,
I just looked at your system, do you still use the Carver c19? Have you had any chance to listen to the Rotel Preamps? If so, how would you compare it to your pre?

Yes, I have heard a few of the 9 Series pre’s. But keep in mind, these were made specifically for 2ch. The ones with phono-pre sections are still considered some of the best values in the used market.

AFA the Carver C-19, keep in mind that it sold for $2200 when new, and mine is V good condition with new caps and two good sets of new tubes. Not really a fair comparison against a HT pre-pro.

I just hope Rotel hasn't lost their way. But I don't see the rationale behind geting out the HT stuff first, and and keep us (the customers) waiting for the 2-channel stuff, where Rotel excels. From my point of view the HT stuff could have benefit form the low sales of the economic recession and give them more time to work out the fine details of the SW and firmware isuues. But I don't know the sales figures for the Rotel 2-channel vs HT and probably the sales for HT are good enough to keep the oxygen to the company coming.

When Rotel went to the 10, and now 15 series, these products were designed for a different market. HT has been the primary focus of their product line, and it was in part their reputation for affordable, good performing mid-fi 2ch equipment that helped establish them today as a major brand in the HT market. In the process, the performance of their gear in 2ch mode has not been a design priority in the HT pre-pro’s.

[jalyra]

Thanks a lot, wkhanna. I'm actually interested in the new 15 series 2-channel preamp. Since I use the same system for HT & stereo listening, the HT bypass feature is a must, but still no official news on the new stereo stuff. The waiting has only made me look to different options, so far most preamps with HT bypass are in the $3,000 and up region which is a little bit too much for me at this time. Although yesterday I just found out that Audio Research has the SP16L for around $2,000. I've never used tubes, so i haven't made my mind yet.

[wkhanna]

FWIW, I love what having tubes in my pre section has done for my system. Especially when fed with a digital source.

I have heard a few different AR pre’s, and all sounded fantastic to my ears.

As always, JMHO YMMV

[gianni]

Now a third review by CNet Australia also comments on the RSX-1550 being outperformed by a Sony and Marantz AVR during CD playback. This was w/ a digital input using the onboard DAC.

I know reviews are not everything, but this is unusual for a Rotel AVR. Despite the positive user feedback here, it makes me wonder. I'll really have to make an effort to go have a listen soon. If the Marantz does sound as good or better, even being the Rotel fan I am, it's going to be hard to justify paying twice the price for the Rotel. That's something that was never an issue before as the Rotel's were clearly better sonically.

[1oldguy]

I agree Gianni .....At the end of the day it's the actual performance that counts.
Kind of like having a good looking woman who prides herself on that as apposed to an average woman who is in your corner helping out.

[tpirovol]

Hi Everyone,

I would hold off ruling out the Rotel 15xx series just yet. I just got a new firmware from Rotel that opened the unit up completely. If you notice from my previous posts I have been quite disappointed as well becuase of a few issues but Rotel is working on them and the latest firmware opened up 2ch to new levels.

I will keep you posted
Thanks Terry

[jalyra]

Well, I guess the 2-channel stuff is not firmware upgradable. In a sense I'm happy Rotel hasn't make the announcement yet, I prefer that they work out all the problems before they ship the new 2-channel stuff.

As for the Audio Research, the price was for the line stage, if you add phono it costs 2,500, but then the SP16 is discontinued, and the new SP17 with phono costs 3,500 which is out of my price range, still waiting for the RC-1580. Hope the sound will impress the reviewers from the very first batch of units shipped.

[Legairre]

Now a third review by CNet Australia also comments on the RSX-1550 being outperformed by a Sony and Marantz AVR during CD playback. This was w/ a digital input using the onboard DAC.

I know reviews are not everything, but this is unusual for a Rotel AVR. Despite the positive user feedback here, it makes me wonder. I'll really have to make an effort to go have a listen soon. If the Marantz does sound as good or better, even being the Rotel fan I am, it's going to be hard to justify paying twice the price for the Rotel. That's something that was never an issue before as the Rotel's were clearly better sonically.

When Sony starts sounding better than Rotel some is seriously wrong.

[TommyV]

Now a third review by CNet Australia also comments on the RSX-1550 being outperformed by a Sony and Marantz AVR during CD playback. This was w/ a digital input using the onboard DAC.

I know reviews are not everything, but this is unusual for a Rotel AVR. Despite the positive user feedback here, it makes me wonder. I'll really have to make an effort to go have a listen soon. If the Marantz does sound as good or better, even being the Rotel fan I am, it's going to be hard to justify paying twice the price for the Rotel. That's something that was never an issue before as the Rotel's were clearly better sonically.

First the reviewer falsely stated that this was the successor to the 1057, ignoring the 1058. Also I would like to know what kind of speakers were used in this 2ch evaluation. We still don't know what DACs are integrated into the current 15 series HT gear as compared to the 1069/1058 do we?

I agree on the GUI. I can't believe they are still using the same one. Also agree on the remote but i don't much care about that. My Harmony is all that matters.

[mvdveek]

We still don't know what DACs are integrated into the current 15 series HT gear as compared to the 1069/1058 do we?

To my knowledge the RSP-1570 uses the Burr-Brown DSD1791 DAC's

[Nuthed]

Rotel has made a very big error, IMHO that is. They had a piss poor and seriously lacking implementation of HDMI in the 1058, 1069 and 1098.

Now the 15 series comes out and they haven't fixed the problems they had before.

HDMI and Audyssey will be the death of Rotel. I say this as a Rotel and Integra owner.

[TommyV]

What is so piss poor and seriously lacking about the HDMI in my 1069? I know it the early models had issues but in the current version, I am not having any issues.

[Nuthed]

How about having to disconnect video cards because of signal degradation? How about handshake issues and failure to properly detect downstream video sources? How about coming to market as a v1.1 product when other, yes I know, mass market companies are introducing 2nd and 3rd generation v1.3 products?

I realize Rotel is a much smaller specialty company, but they are way behind. Now you read that they don't even have that much if any of a SQ advantage anymore.

I still like Rotel, they're just a day late and a dollar short. Sad to say.

[TommyV]

I assume by disconnect video cards, you mean the scaler bypass option? I don't care to use a scaler in my pre/pro so I like that option.The scaler has been updated and may be completely fixed.

Handshake issues are prevalent in all HDMI setups not just Rotel. That is more an HDMI problem but they have stayed dedicated to fixing the problems.

I do not know what cannot detect downstream video sources means. As far as 1.1, at the time it was released how many 1.3 processors with all decoding were available? The integra 9.8? Until I can a/b bitstream vs LPCM and hear a difference I am not a believer.

The 1069 has just been an improvement over my beloved 1057.

[pixeljedi]

I agree with tpirovol here. I upgraded my firmware the other night on my 1560 and it sounds and works miles better. Just one more delay issue to fix in regard to the PS3 playing networked audio, and then I'll be a happy listener.

I compared the 1560 to the SC07 when I was purchasing, and the 1560 sounded better... cleaner. I also listened to the 1550 and did notice the difference the extra 25W made - it's there in the 1560 for me.

But definitely let your own ears judge and don't be swayed by reviews. If you compare it with a Sony and the Sony sounds better to you, then save yourself some cash and go with it. For me, the hdmi stuff was a drag, but now it's fixed (mostly).

Cheers,
Thor

[Nuthed]

I assume by disconnect video cards, you mean the scaler bypass option? I don't care to use a scaler in my pre/pro so I like that option.The scaler has been updated and may be completely fixed.

Handshake issues are prevalent in all HDMI setups not just Rotel. That is more an HDMI problem but they have stayed dedicated to fixing the problems.

I do not know what cannot detect downstream video sources means. As far as 1.1, at the time it was released how many 1.3 processors with all decoding were available? The integra 9.8? Until I can a/b bitstream vs LPCM and hear a difference I am not a believer.

The 1069 has just been an improvement over my beloved 1057.

Yes, I meant scalers and as you noted, your's apparently doesn't work so saying you don't want to use one anyway is just sour grapes.

Handshake issues are not prevalent with most mainstream devices. It is in fact limited to a few brands. Pop over to another forum and this will become readily apparent.

I meant downstream video display devices. I know the problems are few but they happen to everyone with this circumstance: DVI input on their display. The Rotels have been having issues with audio when they detect a DVI equipped video display. I understand that they have been working on and may have a firmware update for it already. To be fair some Sony AVRs had this issue as well.

Since this dicussion also focuses on receivers, there are multiple brands that have implemented 1.3's various versions without problems. Integra, Yamaha, Onkyo, Denon, H/K, etc, etc, etc...... But you are correct, I believe the 9.8 and possibly it's Onkyo sister were the only readily available pre/pros that had version 1.3.

I understand and agree with your logic on bitstreaming vs LPCM. I myself have nevver heard a hi-rez codec bitstreamed since I use a PS3 as a Blu-Ray source. It's just that there are others who want that as an option.

[TommyV]

Yes, I meant scalers and as you noted, your's apparently doesn't work so saying you don't want to use one anyway is just sour grapes.

Where did I say my scaler does not work? I said I have no use for it but that it has probably been fixed. I believe Kevin D's more recent posts on his 1069 confirmed the scaler issues with the 1069 were fixed with updates because he needed it for scaling 720p to 1080i for his CRT RPTV.

Handshake issues are not prevalent with most mainstream devices. It is in fact limited to a few brands. Pop over to another forum and this will become readily apparent.

I pop over to many forums. I have no handshake issues with mine but there seem to be a small percentage of users with handshake problems on any of the brands. There just is not the massive amount of users reporting on their Rotel equipment like those other brands you mentioned.

[maxwebster]

Now you read that they don't even have that much if any of a SQ advantage anymore.

That's just it - now you "read". How about "now you hear"? That's what it's all about and always has been - just give'er a listen, eh?

[hifiguymi]

Yes, I meant scalers and as you noted, your's apparently doesn't work so saying you don't want to use one anyway is just sour grapes.

Why would you want a scaler in a preamp or receiver in the first place? I wish Rotel would have left it out all together. I have not encountered a Rotel piece that the scaler didn't work. They may not work as well as the one built in a lot of displays which goes to my first point.

Handshake issues are not prevalent with most mainstream devices. It is in fact limited to a few brands. Pop over to another forum and this will become readily apparent.

I meant downstream video display devices. I know the problems are few but they happen to everyone with this circumstance: DVI input on their display. The Rotels have been having issues with audio when they detect a DVI equipped video display. I understand that they have been working on and may have a firmware update for it already. To be fair some Sony AVRs had this issue as well.

Handshake issues happen with all brands I've dealt with in customers homes. I've had issues with Rotel, Pioneer Elite, Denon, (I sell all of those brands) and have encountered them with Marantz as well. It's not always the receiver, or preamp's, fault. I've hooked up the same BD player and receiver combo at one home with a Sony TV and a different home with a Samsung TV and couldn't get a picture on the Samsung. DVI is worse than HDMI as well. HDMI handshaking is a problem for all brands, not just Rotel.

Since this dicussion also focuses on receivers, there are multiple brands that have implemented 1.3's various versions without problems. Integra, Yamaha, Onkyo, Denon, H/K, etc, etc, etc...... But you are correct, I believe the 9.8 and possibly it's Onkyo sister were the only readily available pre/pros that had version 1.3.

Part of it with a company the size of Rotel is they start development on a piece of gear long before it hits market. They are not big enough to change gear every year and they don't get their hands on silicone as fast as the big guys as well. That is not an excuse, it's reality. That said, they were one of the first companies that had an HDMI equipped preamp with multi channel PCM capability.

I understand and agree with your logic on bitstreaming vs LPCM. I myself have nevver heard a hi-rez codec bitstreamed since I use a PS3 as a Blu-Ray source. It's just that there are others who want that as an option.

If someone wanted to have HD audio decoding in the preamp, or receiver, before the 15 Series came out, they could purchase something else. I doubt they could have found something else in the price range that sounded better but that is why there are choices.

Eric

[gianni]

Why would you want a scaler in a preamp or receiver in the first place? I wish Rotel would have left it out all together. I have not encountered a Rotel piece that the scaler didn't work. They may not work as well as the one built in a lot of displays which goes to my first point.


Eric

I too wish Rotel would have left it out. I wish they would offer a version without it. I have no use for this in a pre or receiver.

[maxwebster]

I too wish Rotel would have left it out. I wish they would offer a version without it. I have no use for this in a pre or receiver.

I agree, but since most transports only have one HDMI out, and since some codecs only transport via HDMI, it makes sense to include video processing of some kind...

[Nuthed]

For the poster who said to just give it a listen: I have a Rotel RSX-972 receiver and 2 RB-980BX amps, so I know that they are good. The problem with what you are saying about the newer stuff, is that they don't sound any different than the other mid range brands. The reviewers who are saying this are the same guys who gave Rotel glowing reviews a few years back, so may it is you who has to have a little faith. With the other brands offering up Audyssey or in the case of Yamaha, their own proprietary processing, they have found a way to get the same sound.

This debate was about the new gear and IMHO their "rush" to market with gear that wasn't ready. I say rush in quotes because even then they were later than everybody else.

Hifiguy: I know they are a much smaller company. That is no excuse, either do it right or don't do it. That had always been their forte: Do it better for a little more money. They could have had some beta units out there for a longer period of time, the faithful would have waited or traded up when the units came out.

Hell, I damn near waited until the 1058 came out, but by the time it did, I read the posts from people who were just having so many problems and the posts from the people who were changing from Rotel to Integra, Marantz, etc, etc or what have you and were just as happy. To be fair these people probably focused more on HT than music, music is where the Rotels will maybe come out out on top. I myself, don't get to listen to music as much as I want to, and when I do I can listen to my Carver/Paradigm system.

Either way, I am glad you guys are happy. Someday I may very buy another new Rotel, they look awesome and are built like brick sh*thouses. :T

[hifiguymi]

For the poster who said to just give it a listen: I have a Rotel RSX-972 receiver and 2 RB-980BX amps, so I know that they are good. The problem with what you are saying about the newer stuff, is that they don't sound any different than the other mid range brands. The reviewers who are saying this are the same guys who gave Rotel glowing reviews a few years back, so may it is you who has to have a little faith. With the other brands offering up Audyssey or in the case of Yamaha, their own proprietary processing, they have found a way to get the same sound.

Things like Audyssey, MCACC, and YPAO can't make one component sound like another. That is not what they are designed to do. What they do seem to do is screw up the sound in my opinion. I have yet to hear a system sound better with one of those in use. If someone wants to go through the process of using Audyssey Pro they might get better results. Again, I say might. I personally think Rotel hasn't lost their performance edge. Not everyone will see it that way and that is fine. That is what makes the world go around.

This debate was about the new gear and IMHO their "rush" to market with gear that wasn't ready. I say rush in quotes because even then they were later than everybody else.

Why do you think the stuff was rushed? What about it wasn't ready?

Hifiguy: I know they are a much smaller company. That is no excuse, either do it right or don't do it. That had always been their forte: Do it better for a little more money. They could have had some beta units out there for a longer period of time, the faithful would have waited or traded up when the units came out.

Hell, I damn near waited until the 1058 came out, but by the time it did, I read the posts from people who were just having so many problems and the posts from the people who were changing from Rotel to Integra, Marantz, etc, etc or what have you and were just as happy. To be fair these people probably focused more on HT than music, music is where the Rotels will maybe come out out on top. I myself, don't get to listen to music as much as I want to, and when I do I can listen to my Carver/Paradigm system.

Either way, I am glad you guys are happy. Someday I may very buy another new Rotel, they look awesome and are built like brick sh*thouses. :T

Before the RSX-1058 and RSP-1069 came out there were quite a few people (I'm not saying you because I don't know for sure if you were one or not) that were gripping about Rotel taking so long to get there products to market. Again, for a smaller company it's not easy to do things that the big CEs do. You think the answer would be for beta test units to go into the field and have customers use them? That costs money and potentially endless delays and there is a chance that not everything would be perfect. That serves no one. Adding to the cost of a product in that price range is also not something that makes business sense. A $2000.00 receiver needs to be $2000.00 not $2200.00 or more.

Rotel may not be the answer for everybody but they are still wonderful sounding, well built, and handsome pieces of gear. They haven't done anything to change that as far as I'm concerned.

Eric

[Nuthed]

I don't want to keep rehashing this with you. You are a dealer who has a vested interest in saying and believing Rotel is good, because you earn money from selling them.

Whether you chose to believe it or not, many people have expirienced numerous issues with Rotels HDMI implementation. Maybe a lot of your previous owners haven't wanted or needed their Rotels to do what some of the owners of mass market gear have wanted their gear to do so the problems didn't surface. Look on AVS and you will find threads dealing with the handshake and video issues of Rotel.

As far as Ausyssey, we have been down this road before. I understand you don't know how to properly use it. The benefit to Audyssey is that it removes the room and speaker deficiencies from the SQ eqaution. You are correct that it will not make another component sound like another component, in and of itself. This is not an issue though since most adequately designed amps and receivers already sound very similar, especially for HT.

[Legairre]

Things like Audyssey, MCACC, and YPAO can't make one component sound like another. That is not what they are designed to do. What they do seem to do is screw up the sound in my opinion. I have yet to hear a system sound better with one of those in use. If someone wants to go through the process of using Audyssey Pro they might get better results. Again, I say might. I personally think Rotel hasn't lost their performance edge. Not everyone will see it that way and that is fine. That is what makes the world go around.

I can't say whether or not Rotel has lost their way, but I can say my $1200 Pioneer Elite VSX-92TXH receiver with MCACC sound way better than the RSP-1066 I once had.

I'm in no way anti-Rotel. I own three Rotel amps (RMB-1095 and dual RB-1050's) and love their stuff, but the MCACC in the Pioneer beats the heck out of the RSP-1066 with no room EQ. Now if I turn off the MCACC then the RSP-1066 sounds better, but with MCACC engaged the Pio wins.

[hifiguymi]

I didn't say Rotel hasn't had handshaking issues. They still do with a few DVI based displays. I said they are not the only brand that has had them. You make it sound like they are the only ones that do and that is not the case. Not by a long shot. People on AVS complain about every brand, not just Rotel. Using that forum does not support a point.

Thanks for the insult / personal attack on the Audyssey. That shows a lot of class. You don't know me or what I know about Audyssey. I very do much know how to use it and set it up and I don't like it. People buy into it and think it's great because it changes the sound and makes it different. That usually doesn't mean better, which is what I've encountered. I know what all of those systems are designed to do but if it can't get things like speaker phase correct on initial set up, that is a bad sign in my book. And you were the one that said "With the other brands offering up Audyssey or in the case of Yamaha, their own proprietary processing, they have found a way to get the same sound." in post #33.

Lastly, amps and receivers don't sound that much alike. If you think so, you need to listen to more closely.

One more thing. You didn't answer when I asked what wasn't finished on the 15 Series when it was launched. Could you elaborate?

Eric

[Legairre]

hifi, your post came after mine, but I'm assuming you were responding to someone else.

[hifiguymi]

hifi, your post came after mine, but I'm assuming you were responding to someone else.

I was typing when your post went up. I was responding to Nuthed.

Eric

[Nuthed]

I didn't say Rotel hasn't had handshaking issues. They still do with a few DVI based displays. I said they are not the only brand that has had them. You make it sound like they are the only ones that do and that is not the case. Not by a long shot. People on AVS complain about every brand, not just Rotel. Using that forum does not support a point.

Thanks for the insult / personal attack on the Audyssey. That shows a lot of class. You don't know me or what I know about Audyssey. I very do much know how to use it and set it up and I don't like it. People buy into it and think it's great because it changes the sound and makes it different. That usually doesn't mean better, which is what I've encountered. I know what all of those systems are designed to do but if it can't get things like speaker phase correct on initial set up, that is a bad sign in my book. And you were the one that said "With the other brands offering up Audyssey or in the case of Yamaha, their own proprietary processing, they have found a way to get the same sound." in post #33.

Lastly, amps and receivers don't sound that much alike. If you think so, you need to listen to more closely.

One more thing. You didn't answer when I asked what wasn't finished on the 15 Series when it was launched. Could you elaborate?

Eric

See my previous post about the issues, it's there and check out the Rotel owner's thread on AVS.

I base my opinion on Audyssey on my own expirience and from a well respected audio journalist who posts here quite often using his own name.

Amps and receivers do in fact sound very much alike, within their limits. If you don't think so, I suggest you participate in an ABX test. It will be quite an eye opener, maybe even an ear opener. When you have speakers that dip low in the impedance range and/or need a lot of current your options are to use an outboard amp or use a receiver that utilizes a sufficiently high current design. That is one area where Rotel excels. Based on that, I often recommend Rotel, so it's not that I am anti Rotel.

When I bought my 972 it was, IMHO, the cream of the crop in power and current as well as SQ as far as receivers were concerned. I just believe that many other brands have now obtained that level. With the major brands, if you get up high enough in the product line, you will be amazed at how far they have progressed.

[B&W_Group_Fan]

Okay, I’ll slip into my flame-retardant suit and step into this.

As someone who owned quite a bit of 10-series separate components, and one who now owns an RSX-1560, I’d like to offer my thoughts on this.

I put a lot of thought into my purchasing decision when I went with my new AVR. As a matter of fact, it is the first AVR I have owned. All of my past purchases were separates.

I purchased an AVR for a multi-purpose room on the main floor of my house. My ‘ultimate theater’ will be in the basement where I already have a room framed. Somewhere down the road... separates and really big speakers!

As someone who really liked Rotel from past experience, it fell on my shortlist when I was looking at getting new gear. At the time - CEDIA 2008 - though, I was also entertaining thoughts of Integra and Denon as centerpieces for the multi-purpose room.

While there were many factors that entered into my decision, it came down to quality. Quality can mean different things to different people. For me, it was the sound, the build and the support.

Rotel gear (yes, the ‘D’ stuff too), really sounds good. The components they use, the engineering, etc. yields a product that in it’s price range, is second to none. Have I experienced some issues? Yes. Have I been heard on them? I think so!

The firmware updates they have supplied have made positive improvements to my RSX-1560 - though I will admit not every issue is fixed yet.

Communications between me and my dealer go to B&W Group Support. I have had opportunity to talk with top B&W Group support personnel and a certain VP. Would I have has this same level of access with other companies? Probably not.

Would I have liked to have never needed to deal with some of the issues? Sure. Have I enjoyed listening to my 2 ch. audio? Has my family enjoyed ‘movie night’ more than ever before thanks to our RSX-1560? You bet (on both accounts). :T

Rotel still offers what they have always offered - a step up in quality for a small step up in price.

So... Has Rotel lost their way? Not in my opinion.

(I’m taking off my flame-retardant suit so I can go have some beer. Please be gentle.)

[Kevin D]

I can't say whether or not Rotel has lost their way, but I can say my $1200 Pioneer Elite VSX-92TXH receiver with MCACC sound way better than the RSP-1066 I once had.

It's really all a matter of opinion and the ears. I 'borrowed' a Pioneer VSX-03TXH for three weeks in between my 1069 and 1570. All used with my RMB-1077.

Did the MCACC improve the sound over out of the box Pioneer? Yes it did. Over the three weeks I really began to miss my 1069.

Different room and different speakers, I'm sure the results could be different. That said, the 1066 was a step down in quality over the RSP-985 I had. The 1098 brought that back and the 1069/1570 had the same stereo quality with improved surround.

Kevin D.

[Nuthed]

Okay, I’ll slip into my flame-retardant suit and step into this.

As someone who owned quite a bit of 10-series separate components, and one who now owns an RSX-1560, I’d like to offer my thoughts on this.

I put a lot of thought into my purchasing decision when I went with my new AVR. As a matter of fact, it is the first AVR I have owned. All of my past purchases were separates.

I purchased an AVR for a multi-purpose room on the main floor of my house. My ‘ultimate theater’ will be in the basement where I already have a room framed. Somewhere down the road... separates and really big speakers!

As someone who really liked Rotel from past experience, it fell on my shortlist when I was looking at getting new gear. At the time - CEDIA 2008 - though, I was also entertaining thoughts of Integra and Denon as centerpieces for the multi-purpose room.

While there were many factors that entered into my decision, it came down to quality. Quality can mean different things to different people. For me, it was the sound, the build and the support.

Rotel gear (yes, the ‘D’ stuff too), really sounds good. The components they use, the engineering, etc. yields a product that in it’s price range, is second to none. Have I experienced some issues? Yes. Have I been heard on them? I think so!

The firmware updates they have supplied have made positive improvements to my RSX-1560 - though I will admit not every issue is fixed yet.

Communications between me and my dealer go to B&W Group Support. I have had opportunity to talk with top B&W Group support personnel and a certain VP. Would I have has this same level of access with other companies? Probably not.

Would I have liked to have never needed to deal with some of the issues? Sure. Have I enjoyed listening to my 2 ch. audio? Has my family enjoyed ‘movie night’ more than ever before thanks to our RSX-1560? You bet (on both accounts). :T

Rotel still offers what they have always offered - a step up in quality for a small step up in price.

So... Has Rotel lost their way? Not in my opinion.

(I’m taking off my flame-retardant suit so I can go have some beer. Please be gentle.)

Very good post. All true, with the exception of the "a step up in quality for a small step up in price." Rotel is actually quite a bit more up in price. Often double for a comparatively equipped competitor. Would I love to have a nice new Rotel sitting in my rack? Sure, just not right now.

[hifiguymi]

Here is another review of a 15 Series Rotel receiver.

http://www.hometheatermag.com/receivers/rotel_rsx-1550_av_receiver/

Overall a positive review. The scaler didn't get high marks (which most of us know it wouldn't / shouldn't) but the amp section looks to be pretty beefy. That being the case the reviewer doesn't seem to think Rotel has lost their way.

Eric

[lvhung]

I nerver thought Rotel processor is musical enough for most of us

Even the 1098 the noise floor is quite too high