New model Rotels due???

[nick.h]

Hi,

Just wondering when if at all new model rotels are due out? maybe with hdmi? and some updated features??

[JDH]

From my understanding from reading this newsgroup your most likely looking at 3 to 6 months for an RSP-1068 replacement. Might take another 3 to 6 months to be released in Australia. In short probably minimum 6 months.

Hi,

Just wondering when if at all new model rotels are due out? maybe with hdmi? and some updated features??

[Dmantis]

Honestly alot of dealers are not very cool with Rotel being so far behind. I personally know over the years all higher end companies are always behind.I know of one dealer that is actually not going to use Rotel as much as they have due to this. They also expressed this to Rotel and hopefully it will speed things up.

On a personal note, I'm of need of a new Preamp. I thought the Rsp1098 was going to be hardware upgradeable due to it's design but from what I have heard, it's only software. I own the rsp1068 currently.

Dan

[nash]

I'm still hanging on to a 1066 simply because I know that if i buy a 1068 or 1098, the replacement will be announced within weeks

[shadow]

HDMI has finally become useful with version 1.3, which still will not be out for a year or so. Current HDMI has nothing to do with superior sound and video. Look at all those people over at AVS that buy a new receiver every year to keep up with the latest features with the same mediocre sound. Most people here are more interested in top rate sound and video not the latest cosmetic features. The new pre/pros will be out from Rotel the first of next year and I am sure they will incorporate some of the newer features, but I hope they will not sacrifice sound quality to keep up with the mid fi boys.

[JDH]

Me Too !!!!

I also don't have an HD capable TV at the moment, so will probably not consider upgrading the AV pre (RSP-1066) until I also upgrade my TV or add a projector. This is probably still 1 to 2 years away so by then everything in terms of HDMI 1.3 etc etc should be resolved. Currently looking at upgrading my power amp instead.

I'm still hanging on to a 1066 simply because I know that if i buy a 1068 or 1098, the replacement will be announced within weeks

[apodaca]

First time poster but perhaps with a bit of new perspective on things. Like others here I have recently discovered the Rotel sound and have come to respect it as it offers outstanding price to performance ratio. Yes, Rotel does offer higher quality sound vs 'generic' brands but lets be honest people they can do better. Its tempting to get all Rotel components especially due to their slick appearance but they are most definitely lacking in the area of multichannel.

There is no excuse not to support SACD for example as SACD has a larger library and their DVD-A players are a bit 'wishy washy' but the main problem I have is with their bass management support on the multichannel inputs. When smaller companes like Outlaw, or similarly priced Harman Kardon are able to offer Two or THREE different options for bass management (analog, digitized, pass thru) then one must question why Rotel has not got up to speed on this they have the talent but it seems each iteration of a product is only a minimal change in features. Like most here I will put up with them because of the sound quality but feel they can do better. New models are way overdue with proper bass management support on multichannel and REAL HDMI.

[martino]

Welcome to Club Rotel Apodaca.
I've been listening to multi channel SACD and DVD-A..as well as HT for 2 yrs now on my Rotel set up (with Marantz DV-9500 source) I could not be happier..maybe i'm not up to speed..but I fail to see the advantage of HDMI for Audio..how much better than the discreet 5 ch. analoge connections can it be?
As far as bass mgmt..again how much more does one need? With the1098 I have plenty of adjustments, combined with the sub itself..I have more bass mgmt abilities than I have time for!

Thanks for the subject matter...these are just my observations.

Cheers

Martino

[apodaca]

Welcome to Club Rotel Apodaca.
I've been listening to multi channel SACD and DVD-A..as well as HT for 2 yrs now on my Rotel set up (with Marantz DV-9500 source) I could not be happier..maybe i'm not up to speed..but I fail to see the advantage of HDMI for Audio..how much better than the discreet 5 ch. analoge connections can it be?
As far as bass mgmt..again how much more does one need? With the1098 I have plenty of adjustments, combined with the sub itself..I have more bass mgmt abilities than I have time for!

Thanks for the subject matter...these are just my observations.

Cheers

Martino

Try and hook up an HD-DVD player or Bluray via multichannel inputs. You will need an analog switch plus six additional audio analog cables if you want to keep yout Marntz in the loop.

Bass management is poor. Like I said a small outfit like outlaw and Harman can offer the option to digitize the multichannel inputs and apply full bass management (you choose the crossover point for any speaker and apply the time delays), and an analog option with an 80 Hz crossover. Then there is the option to overlay Dolby ProlLogic IIx music or cinema to the multichannel inputs. Have you listened to SACD or DVD-A in 7.1? It sounds even more enveloping but most importantly if you want 7.1 on the new HD-DVD or Blu RAy through the multichannel inputs then this is the only way while maintaining the superior connection. I forgot to mention some even offer tone controls on the multichannel input as well. There is simply more flexibility.

If you had Real HDMI support imagine doing all of the above with only three HDMI cables in the loop. These are some of the features that others offer and if they can do that on a $300 HTIB then Rotel really has no excuse not to offer it. The additional cost to do so would be an insignificant percentage increase in price and would place Rotel at an even higher level of bang for the buck since the only option I know to get that kind of flexibility while still retainig or upping audio quality is to step up to Lexicon and that aint cheap.

[Kevin D]

It's all in licensing and R&D costs spread out through a very small number of products.

I'm not sure how Harman falls under a small company. In addition to JBL, Infinity, Revel, and about a dozen other companies; Harman International is a pretty huge company.

As far as Outlaw, a lot of their product is re-badged and sold under different brands (or their stuff is re-badged other products). They also don't own the factory and have to worry about that end of it. In the end it's a lot more product to spread out the cost.

With Rotel pretty much only doing what they do with limited sales it takes a huge step to license the newest thing. In order to fully support HDDVD and Bluray they are going to have to license HDMI 1.3, DD+, DD-TrueHD, DTS-HD, etc.. That's a lot of fees to release something before it's a known set standard with all the bugs worked out.

There's a lot of items that after R&D turn out to not be profitable for release (Sirius/FM tuner, 1080p scaler). A lot of this won't be wasted and will probably show up in the new stuff coming up.

So until they increase sales 500%, get bought by a large corporation, or invent the next standard themselves we'll just have to deal with getting the latest stuff later (or not at all).

Kevin D.

[martino]

I can set crossover and time delay on all my speakers now.

Bass mgmt is far from poor with the 1098!!! as I do not wish to add a bunch of "processing to my music"

As far as HD-DVD and Bluray...I agree HDMI will be a requirement.

As far as music..I personally like it the way it was mastered...without any Dolby anything changing it, be it Stereo or multi-channel..but i'm an old fart.

As for today..everything is just fine.....

I respect your opinion / needs apodaca...I know I will need HDMI in my Processer some day...

Cheers

Martin

[apodaca]

I can set crossover and time delay on all my speakers now.

Bass mgmt is far from poor with the 1098!!! as I do not wish to add a bunch of "processing to my music"

As far as HD-DVD and Bluray...I agree HDMI will be a requirement.

As far as music..I personally like it the way it was mastered...without any Dolby anything changing it, be it Stereo or multi-channel..but i'm an old fart.

As for today..everything is just fine.....

I respect your opinion / needs apodaca...I know I will need HDMI in my Processer some day...

Cheers

Martin

Well with all of this Rotel brown nosing I should have made my first post 'Rotel rules YEAH!'. Sorry to let you know but Rotel is not perfect and proper bass management needs no liscencing fees that I am aware of. I guess you either have full range speakers all around at exactly the same distance from you with the exact same sensitivity and or their -3dB point exactly matches that of your Marantz - congrats ! The rest of the planet who listens to multichannel, us young farts who can appreciate a multi channel version of a great recording or who realize that no upconverting $1500 DVD player will look better than a $500 HDDVD like to to configure our home theater with uncanny precision and not sloppy and crude universal settings. For the price, prestige and quality of Rotel it is expected. I feel like I just purchased a nice high performance luxury european automobile with no steering wheel tilt controls or power windows. Rotel makes some fine amps and other gear but still,their BM on the multichannel inputs sucks period and there is no reason for it. As I said, at this price level and performance I expect better but thats just me wanting to get every ounce of performance out of my gear.

[martino]

As a matter of fact I do have full range all around with the same senitivity.
I'm a bit bewildered with your aggresive tone.
I don't need to engage in some BS with you...and I'm quite amazed and wonder what your rational is to join 'Club Rotel" and take such a confrontational stance?
FYI my Marantz player uses direct bypass 5.1 without any processing at all!
Just like the engeneer of the recording meant it to be...prehaps you prefer to set you "system" (BTW what is your "system") to "rock" or "Club" our some other BS processer setting.
I've tried to mantain some kind of civility to this dicussion..but you really are off the mark here.
In fact why are you on this forum?

[Kevin D]

Sorry to let you know but Rotel is not perfect and proper bass management needs no liscencing fees that I am aware of. .

But it does require a DSP chip that can do it, which does cost money as you really need to buy them in the 100's of thousands. I imagine the the current line will be here until the DSP chips get in short supply and then Rotel will decide which chip will suit them for the next 3-4 years.

In case you didn't catch it, I'm not saying we don't need and shouldn't want all these new things. The economies of scale Rotel is under just means they will never have anything quick or soon.

Kevin D.

[Kobus]

Thanks for the insight Kevin.

Kobus

[mattburk]

Well with all of this Rotel brown nosing I should have made my first post 'Rotel rules YEAH!'. Sorry to let you know but Rotel is not perfect and proper bass management needs no liscencing fees that I am aware of. I guess you either have full range speakers all around at exactly the same distance from you with the exact same sensitivity and or their -3dB point exactly matches that of your Marantz - congrats ! The rest of the planet who listens to multichannel, us young farts who can appreciate a multi channel version of a great recording or who realize that no upconverting $1500 DVD player will look better than a $500 HDDVD like to to configure our home theater with uncanny precision and not sloppy and crude universal settings. For the price, prestige and quality of Rotel it is expected. I feel like I just purchased a nice high performance luxury european automobile with no steering wheel tilt controls or power windows. Rotel makes some fine amps and other gear but still,their BM on the multichannel inputs sucks period and there is no reason for it. As I said, at this price level and performance I expect better but thats just me wanting to get every ounce of performance out of my gear.

Dude chill out

[Kevin D]

I think both sides need to chill. While Apodaca did have some edge to his reply I can see where he felt he was being attacked. He has valid points, we do need proper bass management for the multi-channel inputs and the other things he listed. Just because some are content with pure analog passthrough, others (myself included) would love to have options. My points were arguing why it's just not that easy.

Kevin D.

[metallo]

apodaca,

About "Bass management", or as you mention it "Proper"? (i must admit that I dont know what "proper" bass management" is)

If you look in the manual for example RSP1068 (as i own) and do a search of "bass management" you will get 12 hits. If you take the time to read the pages of the hits you will see seperate crossover (40-200hz) for each speaker group (Front, center, surround, center back, sub) and you also can define different Small/Large for each kind of signal DTS/DD/MUSIC(DSP)/STEREO. Under subwoofer setup you can also adjust different levels for each kind of signal (+-9 dB i think)... etc etc etc

If this isnt "proper" bass management, what the hell is?

And you mention "to digitize the multichannel inputs", yes you are right, it cant do this (LFE redirect at 100hz is availible), why do you want that? When you play SACD/DVDA via multichannel (wich i never use, music is made for 2 ch ) you want it as pure as possible, right? an full and pure analog bypass is to prefer before "digitalizasion", in my opinion...

But i understand what you meen, Rotel isnt for everyone...

/Daniel

BTW, wich harman can "digitize the multichannel inputs"?
User manual for AVR-635, page 35,
------------------------------
• The 6 CH DIRECT input should be used
when the SBR and SBL inputs are NOT in use and
the input source device has its own internal bass
management system. This input passes the input
from the source directly through to the volume
control without any analog to digital conversion
and it mutes the unused input jacks to prevent
unwanted noise from interfering with system performance.
• The 8 CH DIRECT INPUT should be
used when an input is connected to all eight
8-Channel Direct Inputsand when the
input source device has its own internal bass
management system. This input passes the input
from the source directly through to the volume
control without any analog to digital conversion.
Note that when the 6-Channel or 8-Channel
Input is in use, you may not select a surround
mode, as the external decoder determines the
processing in use. In addition, there is no signal
at the record outputs or bass management when
the 6-Channel or 8-Channel Direct Input is in use
and the tone or balance controls will not
function.
-------------------------------

[apodaca]

Wow all towers! Thats crazy and tempting but there is the issue of needing more power not to mention dealing with the acoustical nightmare (combing due to the multiple low frequency response). I often hear people say 'how the music was intended to be heard etc' or 2 ch is the 'right' way to listen. I can dig that sometimes but I choose to look past that and realize that there are real limitations to what two speakers can do. My goals is to recreate the acoustical space of the recording venue with the best detail/fidelity possible and there are several technical papers that state/show this can be best done by 11.2 speakers but 7.1 is a good approximation along with some pretty clever Logic. There is nothing wrong with listening to multichannel or to processed multichannel if the results are either more acurate or even pleasing. I always look to improve on things, experiment and music is no different.

Im talking about better bass management not RE-EQ or Satellite Radio or other feature requireing liscencing fees. The Outlaw 1070, 970 available only in US and not based on any universal models offer this at an msrp less than Rotel models available worldwide. Harman is large so perhaps economy of scale matters here but the previous generation AVR630, AVR7300, DPR2005 and the new AVR745 (with full HDMI support switching/audio) all offer this as well as some Denon and Pioneer. Unfortunately, as we all know Rotel amp sections are of higher quality than these competitors. Nothing wrong with expecting/wanting a little improvement from Rotel.

[Andrew M Ward]

The Outlaw 1070, 970 available only in US and not based on any universal models offer this at an msrp less than Rotel models available worldwide.

Keep in mind "Outlaw" doesn't actually make anything... They just buy what other Chinese factories are making and re-badge it...

Rotel has no interest interest in that

[Sim reality]

Everyone has it's niche... While it would be nice if Rotel would incorporate newer features faster, their focus has been to produce products that sound consistent if nothing else... Which is why it depreciates so slowly.

I think the pre/pro section is probably the most competative portion of the market because it's a little bit like computing... You can buy a computer will all the bells and whistles for really cheap but it doesn't garrentee that hard drive won't crash in 2 years.

Comparing Outlaw to Rotel is a little like comparing Dell to IBM in the late nineties early 2000... Dell was exclusively online and it's business process was designed to adapt to technology change quickly. IBM made better quality computers but Dell was faster/cheaper to market.

I personally liked the IBM computers more myself but find that I working on a Dell computer right now... I am not sure what that says about the future of Rotel, but I think audiophiles are more resistant to change then computer users...

[shadow]

Good point. Gets back to quality sound. I will wait for Rotel because I am confident that its sound quality will compete with far more expensive products. Even the Outlaw gear has only dvi outputs since it was designed before HDMI became so "popular."

[Andrew M Ward]

Good point. Gets back to quality sound. I will wait for Rotel because I am confident that its sound quality will compete with far more expensive products. Even the Outlaw gear has only dvi outputs since it was designed before HDMI became so "popular."

It has DVI because it's what Sherwood Newcastle and all the other guys that buy from that Chinese Manufacturer get... It's a box - ready for purchase, just slap your faceplate on it and away you go...

Outlaw and those other guys will have HDMI when that factory starts producing one and they decide to get in line and buy some - Repeat said "faceplate slapping" and on we go! Oh look Outlaw has a new HDMI preamp!

That's the extent of "Outlaw Engineering" that will go into it...

Now: Point 2 (More importantly)

That's not a bad business model -

1) get properly financed
2) find pre-made relevant hardware
3) Design logo and faceplate
4) Launch website
5) Take orders - ship product

No dealers to screw around with
No distribution chain
No Engineering issues
No Manufacturing issues

Just internal tech support staff
and a web design that talks up the product and all about meticulous quality and fantastic design attributes and away you go!

[Sim reality]

It has DVI because it's what Sherwood Newcastle and all the other guys that buy from that Chinese Manufacturer get... It's a box - ready for purchase, just slap your faceplate on it and away you go...

LOL!!! I am sure that is what other manufacturers say about Rotel RMB-1077, etc. and ICEPower amps as well!

[Andrew M Ward]

LOL!!! I am sure that is what other manufacturers say about Rotel RMB-1077, etc. and ICEPower amps as well!

Rotel speaks freely about it's relationship with ICE...

And the point you're missing is, Rotel is still manufacturing the device called the RMB-1077 in their factory, not buying it off the shelf and putting a face plate on it.

This is a key distinction

Hence my previous elaborate explanation...

[gd]

LOL!!! I am sure that is what other manufacturers say about Rotel RMB-1077, etc. and ICEPower amps as well!

Not to mention the new 'Rotel' power conditioners... nothing wrong with partnering.

What's most relevant here is to research relentlessly, and get to understand what you're buying.

In the case of Rotel, it's primarily about sound quality – specifically reproduction of recorded music... I believe they were kinda dragged into HT by market necessity... nonetheless, they have stuck with SQ-first, and given their size, will necessarily be slow to implement the latest movie sound-processing... that's the domain of mass market receivers... and it's good that there are such choices... I believe Rotel knows exactly what they're doing, and don't want to be all things to all people.

Music is why I hang around and pay attention to Rotel, even if I'm in a minority among forum users, most of whom seem more interested in movies, HD, games, big screens etc (also good).

So Rotel won't be everybody's cuppa tea... no biggie.

[boe]

Good item for a sticky

I'd love to see a sticky that is only updated as anything definitive e.g. press release or photos become available regarding their new equipment. I know I have to be patient but one of the reasons I come to this forum is for any info on new preamp/processors from Rotel. It wouldn't be bad for a sticky on amps as well.

I'm of course thinking of a sticky with just the facts. No my blather about what features I'd like or opinions but only threads with news articles or pictures or confirmed demos and release dates.