RCD1072 v's CA640C V2

[Stev]

Be interested in opinions of anyone that has done a good comparison of the above players - differences if any ?

[audiojunky]

IMHO, RCD-1072 is a little more natural sounding and warmer than the CA 640C V2

[Boombox]

Are we on the same page here?

The RCD1072 retails for about 500 pounds (british), whereas the CA 640C V2 can be had at 250 pounds...

I've read that the Cambridge Audio cd players are excellent, but have not heard them yet..

They use the Wolfsen DACs wheres Rotel employs the Burr-Brown DACs. I myself have started looking at getting a source other than the Rotel and if it is "....a little less natural sounding and cooler than the 1072..." it should sound very good then...

[Kens1]

I have the 640 V1 and thought it was better than the 1072. In Canada when I bought it the price difference between the 2 was only $150 Canadian. I like the fact that 1072 would match everything else but it was a little "edgy" for me.

[PewterTA]

I've got the CA 640C V2 and I have to say it's on par with the RCD1072. There's very little difference at all. I agree with audiojunky on his thoughts, that is definitely what the Rotel difference is. To me I felt like I lost a little something over the CA because of it. That and justifying the price difference between the two, I didn't feel it made sense for ME to keep the RCD1072.

Course I just put in my order for the CA 840C...that is one of the best CD players I've ever heard (for it's price)...I was in complete awe of it. I can't wait to get it!

[audiojunky]

Course I just put in my order for the CA 840C...that is one of the best CD players I've ever heard (for it's price)...I was in complete awe of it. I can't wait to get it!

I didn't know it was available for sale in the US yet, specially since the website doesn't mention it - would you mind telling us how much you're getting it for and from where? Are you getting it directly from a dealer or an online store?

[Stev]

Thanks for the replies. I'm hoping to get a 640c for the a weekend home demo in a few weeks time. I have the 1072 already and have to say I find it underwhelming - as much as I wanted to really like it as it matches my other Rotel components nicely in apearance.

[audiojunky]

Thanks for the replies. I'm hoping to get a 640c for the a weekend home demo in a few weeks time. I have the 1072 already and have to say I find it underwhelming - as much as I wanted to really like it as it matches my other Rotel components nicely in apearance.

Stev - would be great if you could post a comparision of the 2 after you've had a chance to audition them at the comfort of your home.

COuld you please expand on what you mean by "underwhelming"?

[BTB]

I'm sure that many on these threads know my feelings on the RCD 1072, there are now a few (cheaper) players around that outperform it on most counts.

Stev, I was in exactly the same situation as you were... (makes a nice stack with my other Rotel gear.), too bad the sonics couldn't match the visual appeal.

For whatever it's worth, my Arcam CD 73T uses Wolfson DAC's like the CA players. Very happy with it so far, and glad I didn't settle for the visual match instead.

[chinets]

I would never put the RCD 1072 down as everyone has different taste in Music or sound. Some like the Natural, warm sound of Rotel with Jazz etc... and I have auditioned CA 640C for your information. Whether it is Wolfsen or Burr-Brown Dacs is irrelevant.
Do you like the sound of Rotel or the Ca 640 is what counts ,and it depends on the type of music you like, and whether you hear your music In stereo or 5 channel.
Rotel in 5 channel ,and being that it has that natural and warm sound makes the experience sensational especially with Jazz ,but Ca 640 in 5 Channel sounds harsh upfront and too bright that it becomes disturbing. The Ca 640 in Rock music sounds good ,but when you want relaxing music where you can have a conversation and at the same time enjoy a natural, warm sound then Rotel is the choice.
This is My opinion ONLY ,so I really think it all depends on your ears and your choice of music that will ultimately decide on what CD player you would choose.
Cheers!!!!!!!

[audiojunky]

Rotel in 5 channel

8O You've got me confused - we're talking about the RCD-1072 here right? And how do you get 5-channels out of that player??

I'm sure that many on these threads know my feelings on the RCD 1072, there are now a few (cheaper) players around that outperform it on most counts.

Can you name a few that outperforms the Rotel? I've heard that the Vega Apollo (though a few $100 more than the Rotel) is a LOT better than the ROtel and the CA

Stev, I was in exactly the same situation as you were... (makes a nice stack with my other Rotel gear.), too bad the sonics couldn't match the visual appeal.

I don't have to worry about that :B

I'm trying to get a sub $1K CD player to go with my Krell 400Xi

For whatever it's worth, my Arcam CD 73T uses Wolfson DAC's like the CA players. Very happy with it so far, and glad I didn't settle for the visual match instead.

Any idea what the Arcam goes for? And does it (according to you) outperform the Rotel and the CA? I've heard that the up-converting Arcam is really amazing - but that of course isn't in this price range.

[BTB]

Audiojunky

The CD73T sells for around $700 (US), Yes the upsampling CD 192 (or the FMJ CD 36 for that matter) is something special, but as you've already stated it is much more expensive.

I think that my big issue with the RCD 1072 is how overated it is. I found that I was really keen to hear it after certain proffesional reviews raved about about, but like others found it quite underwhelming. It's a good player, but beauty is after all, in the "ear" of the beholder. What I like to hear (in no particular order) are natural dynamics with good solid "punch" when required, detail resolution (but not forced and artificial, in the way that detracts from the music rather than affording it more realism) and overall transparency & clarity. All of these I personally found lacking in the Rotel and found much more apparent with the Arcam. Perhaps for some the above qualities amount to "brightness", but I.M.O "warm" is one step away from "soft focus", which I wouldn't consider very accurate. And just for information... acoustic jazz forms the bulk of my listening.

I'm not saying it's the greatest budget/mid player ever made, it isn't going to give owners of (place your mega buck product name here) sleepless nights, and I suppose many won't like it as much as I do becuase personal taste (or brand preference) is paramount, but if you don't want your music "puffed and padded" this player might be a good place to start.

[chinets]

I am saying if you play your 1072 witha Pre/pro in 5 channel it sounds fantastic ,but i didn't like the CA 640 in 5 channel ,as it sounded too forward for my liking IMO!!!!
Sorry for the confusion Audiojunky!!!!!!
Cheers

[chinets]

BTB,
I personally, if I want bright, forward and dynamic sound I would put my CDs in my Marantz DV 9600 that also plays SA-CD and DVD-A in Multi-Channel.
But IMHO the 1072 has that warm sound with lots of punch and it has a correct and Natural sound to it, which the Arcam did not have. Arcam is very nice sounding, but as you said ,forward ( Good for Rock Music and POP) ,and I have the Marantz for forward sounding. Different ears different sound to eveyone. I still think the 1072 is the best buy you could ever make for the money. BTB... you said you like Jazz? then 1072 is the pick. Jazz on Arcam IMHO too harsh especially in 2 channel.
I also love 5 channel listening and I find the Rotel with my 1098 pre/pro much more natural and suave than the Arcam, that made it sound too bright.
To each his own taste I guess, but I would never describe the Rotel 1072 the way you did.
My 2 cents and Cheers!!!!!!!!!!

[Boombox]

The RCD1072 has been around for sometime now and I believe that Rotel has made a winner at the time. It does sound amazing. I've listened to it the other day auditioning the Dynaudio Audience 72s and the Rotel player was a beauty; detailed, natural sounding and excellent seperation. I will compare this to the LINN hi-fi I've heard that used the LINN unidisk and LINN Ninkas (not comparing the cdplayers only but the complete packages!!!).

The issue of "brightness" and "forward" sounding is (for me) typical of Rotel amps which do seem to be more treblely. This coupled to a tweeter that is sharp can be a harsh experience. This is the case with me at the moment where my sound gets so bright that a piano key or a plucked acoustic guitar string feels like an earbud jagged into my ear. Some unschooled friends of mine make me feel good by terming this as "excellent clarity".....mmmmm...... ops:......... :rofl:.....

I've read that the CA did have some quality issues in V1, and less bass, which apparently have been corrected in the V2 version. The 1072 has little bass for my liking but according to one reviewer the CA has even less bass than the 1072. I find british cdps and speakers bass lacking.....just my opinion and I'm not provoking anyone for arguments here.....and rather "cold"...with the spaces between vocals and/or instruments projected as black rather than filled with some air.

Unfortunately, the CA 640C V2 is not available here in South Africa.....called frantically over the weekend to some retailers listed on the CA site but none had some in, the distributor either closed shop or is not importing CA any more. This is a killer as I will then have to make a judgement call and order one directly from England....should I decide on buying the cdplayer.

I am not putting the 1072 off, but I think that there are other brands that have caught up to it and can offer the same sound quality at an even lower cost....

as to the 5ch music option.....why would one do that...??

[audiojunky]

Ah, finally found a place that carries both the Rega and the Arcam. They also carry the Rega (not in stock though) and the CA. I'm going to go there this week and do a head to head comparision and post the results here.

In the end everything is subjective but I'll try to be as objective as I can.

[Kobus]

Unfortunately, the CA 640C V2 is not available here in South Africa.

That would be a pity, as I was also considering one.

You have obviously tried them. http://www.audioimports.com/

What would the landed cost be on importing? I do not want to think about the risks.

What other options have we got say below R8000?

Kobus

[PewterTA]

Audiojunky... this place in VA sells the 840c (available in July) which is when I hope to get mine. I was going to go through audioadvisor, but they took their link down from their website.

http://www.uptownaudio.com/camb/caStore.htm

[audiojunky]

Audiojunky... this place in VA sells the 840c (available in July) which is when I hope to get mine. I was going to go through audioadvisor, but they took their link down from their website.

http://www.uptownaudio.com/camb/caStore.htm

PewterTA, thanks for the link - does the dealer give discounts on what is listed on the website? He seems to have listed them at around 10% or so below retail.

Have you heard this unit or did you buy it based on reviews? I would really be intersted in knowing how cool this system is - please keep us posted of your fabulous purchase!

This might be a winner - balanced outputs, upconversion etc.! Looks like Rotel needs to do some catching up once this is released!!

Does anyone know if the Krell SACD standard ($4K player) does up-conversion?

[SGT]

I compared in my house 640c, rcd1072, quad cdp-2 and njoe tjoeb cd4000.

640c was way too bright (though it was burnt in for 48 hours at my place). rcd1072 was just fine, but I have had issues with the hum coming from inside the unit that my dealer couldn't have explained/fixed even with another unit.
Since I own some other Rotel gear that used to have this anoying transformer issue (fixed by the power filtering, but nothing worked with rcd1072), at the end I dropped Rotel and purchased njoe tjoeb.... (and didn't regret).

Quad cdp-2 was excellent, but did let me down on classical music presentation (~60-70% of my listening). Way too shallow for what I know it should be. If I'd listen much more jazz/rock, this quad would be my pick. Beautifull bass, mellow mids and clean highs. Can't yet figure out what happened with the orchestral music??? Too many notes? :W

rcd1072 has lot better bass presentation than 640c. At the other end, 640c has way too "harsh" mid and highs, something that "upsampling people" tend to say is a function of a bit more burn-in time (but my njoe tjoeb with upsampler was excellent straight out of the box across the spectrum).
To make it shorter, IMHO, the only better thing 640c has over rcd1072 is the remote.

Cheers,
SGT

[Stev]

Certainly some interesting veiws there - I'm really looking forward to trying the 640c out now. The above opinions just show why there is so much different sounding gear available - everyone hears/likes different things !! When I described the 1072 as underwhelming I was refering to the improvement in SQ over a universal DVD player costing a mere fifth of the cost of the 1072. Was it better ? yes but by a very small margin. The analog out from the 1072 is obviously better than the analog out from the dvd player, however the analog from the 1072 was very marginal against the digital out from the dvd player. As im using a Rotel AVR both setups are using Rotel's DAC's and showing very little difference between the players(1072) and the AVR's(dvd).

[Danbry39]

Well, I love my Arcam 72T and I listen mostly to classical. When I bought it a few years back, I did a lot of side-by-side comparisons with players in the general price range and that's the one that most floated my boat.

I've been very interested in the Njoe Tjoeb Cd4000. I've heard spectacular things about it and you'd probably have the only one on the block for sure. Quite a few swear by them. If I remember correctly, there are different flavors it comes in as well.

It's all so personal what sound individuals like. With some speakers, for instance, they might sound very warm and euphonic, but lacking with the snap of a snare drum or cymbal. That's why it's always best to play around with a wide variety of music and concentrate on different elements (voice, piano, depth, guitar, bass, sound stage, etc.) while auditioning. At least, that's what I did, but, then again, my CD player is kind of like a bestest buddy. We spend a lot of time together. I signed a prenuptual in the event I made a mistake, though. :B

[Boombox]

You have obviously tried them. http://www.audioimports.com/

Yep! Their site also lists some "clearence" specials....not a good sign.....

What would the landed cost be on importing? I do not want to think about the risks.Kobus

Well I've seen the 640C listed for 249 pounds (R3100), which includes their 17.5% VAT. I'm rather fortunate here as my sister flys to London ca. twice a month, so I'm looking at customs only....that said, import duties have been dropped for audio products, so I'm looking at R3500 - R4000(max). That said, she's not that keen on doing me the favour as they get rather ill treated by customes carrying in electronics under their arms.

I'm also trying to find out how much it will be if I opt for a DHL route....will post the figure...

As to the risks, I agree....it will be hell if the player arrives and goes faulty on me. This can then become a logistrical nightmare......

What other options have we got say below R8000?
Kobus

Got no idea......

[BTB]

First off... Kobus... under R8000 CD players... Arcam CD 73 T, R 6990 list price from Audio Counsel, but they should be happy to give you a discount of some kind.

Boombox,

I too have looked into the import option... remember that when you buy from the UK, (and pay from here) you DON'T pay UK VAT, so for starters subtract 17.5% from the UK retail price. When I made customs enquiries a few months back they explained some contrived list of "upliftment" costs & surcharges (didn't know they had been dropped, but that's good news), long story short... incl. "overnight" DHL delivery (i.e, their most expensive service) the 825 GBP Naim CD5i I was looking into would've cost me around R11 500, or about R 4000 cheaper than it is sold for here in Cape Town, bear in mind that the exchange rate was better then. Not sure if I'd take the risk... for all the reasons you've mentioned... but there is money to be saved.

But back to the original topic. Maybe my earlier posts did sound a bit confrontational, the RCD 1072 is a good player and each to his own... personal tastes come first, which is the golden rule. No offence intended, suppose it's obvious that on a Rotel forum, Rotel's only dedicated CD player will get lots of praise, to the exclusion of other brands, which is a pity, considering that as others have since agreed, cheaper options exist that offer (subjectively) better performance and simply recommending it on brand loyalty alone doesn't seem logical. But that's only my view.

[Boombox]

didn't know they had been dropped, but that's good news

check out: http://www.ita.doc.gov/td/tic/tariff/SouthAfrica.PDF
see pages 253 (bottom) and top of 254....

I bought me a good Yami dvd player in France a couple of years ago and walked straight through customs with it. The asked what it was (ans: dvd player) and then left me alone...

Ex 17.5% VAT will bring the player in at R2600, which means I can have it landed here for R3200. Considering that the retail prices of Rotel gear increased again, the Arcam is in the R6500 - R7000 range, saving between R3000 - R5000 is worth the effort. Seeing that the CA is regarded here as ACTUALLY competeing (albeit a little "bright") with the 1072 and players in this price bracket, it is definitely worth the buy....

[chinets]

BTB is right!!!!!!!!!

But back to the original topic. Maybe my earlier posts did sound a bit confrontational, the RCD 1072 is a good player and each to his own... personal tastes come first, which is the golden rule. :T

BTB is right!!! Different ears apprecaite different sound. Also it depends on your equipment, speakers etc.. And without any doubt the type of Music you listen to such as Jazz, Classical, or even Rock and Pop whatever!!!
Therefore, a 1072 could sound good on some gear, but not so on others. And if you like Rock then 1072 would sound warm ,and not bright and forward. It all depends on your taste in Music,your gear and above all your ears as some people love bright and forward sounds, and some like warm, natural and smooth bass and that describes the 1072 to me In a nut shell. Please everyone this is my opinion ONLY and no offence to anyone.
Make your ears do the judgement and audition the player on your own equipment, and then you'll be sure that you have made the right decision.
Cheers everyone!!!!!!! :lol:
Have a nice day....ARGENTINA CAMPEON!!!!!!!!! :T

[audiojunky]

Rotel RCD-1072 vs. Arcam CD 73T -REVIEW

Disclamer: This review is based solely on personal preference and I'm not expert so don't take this too seriously

I did my first A/B comparision today. As I'd mentioned earlier, I will try to use gear that is close to my current gear for all these auditions. As the auditioning CD, I've been used a compilation called "The Great Audio Experience"

http://www.greataudio.com/home.aspx

This is a great demo CD and almost all stores carrying B&W and other hi-fi gear usually have this CD.

The gear that I was using to audition the 2 CD players were B&W 804s speakers and a Mark & Levinson pre-amp and amp (pictures below)

So without going too much into detail about the listening process, here the outcome IMHO:

The Rotel had warmth but it lacked clarity. The Arcam CD 73 on the other hand won hands down on clarity - it was a lot clearer and the sound was crisp. However, it definitely lacked the warmth of the Rotel. Sometime the music felt ... not sure how to describe this ... a little mechnical, not smooth.

My wife (who has a better ear for music than I) and I felt that the Rotel wasn't upto the mark compared to the Arcam.

I did make the mistake of listening to the Arcam 192 which took the Arcam CD 73 clarity to the next level, but also added the warmth that was missing in the Arcam CD 73. What else would you expect from a player that is $1K more than the Arcam CD 73.

The good thing is that the Arcam CD 73 can be upgraded to the CD 192 through the Arcam factory.

If I had to make a decision between these 2, I would give the thumbs-up to the Arcam, which was clearly a superior sounding CDP.

Here's a break-down:

Looks ------> Rotel
Clarity -----> Arcam
Warmth ----> Rotel
High/Mids --> Arcam
Bass -------> Tie (Arcam had better defined bass, but Rotel had deeper bass)
Value ------> Arcam

Overall -----> Arcam

[grit]

Thanks for the review AudioJunky. That's exactly the kinda stuff I like to read!

[BTB]

Nice review AudioJunky!

Thanks for taking the time to share your views, kinda nice when others see the same value in a particular product... as you know I have previously stated my appreciation of exactly the attributes (of the Arcam CD 73T) that you've describe in your review, esp. VS. the Rotel.

As you say, it's not a perfect performer (I doubt anything is, regardless of cost), and it can sound a little analytical in partnership with certain equipment, but I think its list of plus points balance this factor (which can be easily managed with sensible system matching anyway) but certainly, once you factor in the cost etc. it's overall value becomes very apparent. I've had absolutely trouble free operation in the 8 months or so that I've owned mine, hope you enjoy yours the same.

Cheers... and happy listening. :T

[Stev]

Well I have had the chance to demo the CA 640C V2 at home in my setup and have to say I'm impressed. Audio is a personal preference hobby as such others may not agree with my findings that the 640C is quite a bit better than the 1072. The 640C has tighter bass (and more of it) with a notable increase in clarity. As good as the 1072 is the 640C V2 is just better in my setup !!

[Boombox]

build quality of the CA.....Stev...??

[chinets]

AudioJunky,
Thanks for your informative review. Good Job!!!!!!!!!! I am impressed!!!!!
Cheers

[DL86]

Great both the cd players have their own advantages. Now which CD player has the best of both?
Cheers

[PewterTA]

Boombox, I would say the 640c has maybe a little less of a quality feel to it. The only reason I say that is because of the way the tray makes noise when it goes in and out. It's a quick FAST movement tray, so it makes some noise.

The casing is extremely rigid and solid feeling (not that I would try), but I bet it could hold my RMB-1095 on top of it. I'd even go so far to bet, I could stand on top of it on the edges and it'd hold me fine. Like I said, I won't try this with my 640c. lol

The tray is where most people feel the build quality is lacking. It's a solid tray, just isn't super smooth like a lot of people would expect. I do have to say however, from the time a CD is in the tray, if you hit the play button, it will close the tray and play within 3 seconds...that's amazing, I think it took almost three seconds to close the 1072 when I had it (kidding).

I think it's a tough call, it has a different build quality feel to it over the rotel, maybe not quite as refined...however it matches (at least in silver) just about perfect to all my other Rotel equipment.

[BTB]

The above descriptions could just as easily describe the Arcam 73 T, casework is good enough, but not really as "solid" a feel as the 1072, despite a relatively small weight difference, clearly in favour of the Rotel. Tray mechanism is also a bit noisy during open/closing, but reads discs real quickly, and skips between tracks just as fast. Maybe because it uses a dedicated (Sony) AUDIO transport (as opposed to a CD Rom, or even DVD Rom [like UK made Creek players]).

One nice thing about the Arcam is that sensitive audio circuits (prone to microphonic effects) are "suspended" within the case to prevent any adverse sonic effects caused by vibration.

Just checked the specs of the 640 v2, weighs the same as the Arcam. for whatever indication that is of build quality... :roll:

[Stev]

As far as build quality is concerned the CA is IMO equal or better than the 1072. The tray opening/closing is no quicker than my 1072 - probably slower infact- although they are both fast loading machines. With the SQ it's sytem dependant I guess as there is no area at all that the 1072 beats the 640C V2 to my ears. A good objective test for this is getting someone with absolutely no interest in HI-FI to have a listen - without giving them any background on what they are listening to or for - and see if they have a preference - which in each case was the CA. Forgetting all the HI-FI jargon it just sounds better ! As my other rotel components are 10 series in silver the 640C in silver is good asthetic match also for those concerned with that sort of thing. I'd suggest anyone in the market for a cdp at least have a listen to see if its to your liking - you may be pleasantly supprised !!