Upgrade to RB-1090 or Velodyne SPL 1200R Sub

[DL86]

Hello, everyone

I'm gonna make my purchase in about a weeks time and I need some help here. I have paradigm studio 100 v3 speakers running off an rb-1080. I have no subwoofer atm and I am wondering which of the two items listed above will give me a better overall performance. Upgrade the rb-1080 to a rb-1090 or leave the rb-1080 and get a velodyne SPL-1200 R subwoofer. I have heard the spl-1200 R and personally i think its an awsome sub. I'm just concerned as to wether or not the rb-1090 will give me satisfying levels of bass in my 6x4 m room, because atm I am not overly satisfied with the rb-1080's bass performance. I didn't have a chance to listen to the rb-1090. So any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance, David ;x(

[gianni]

My thoughts:

As far as overall performance, the 1090 will better your 1080. However, to really take advantage of this, I hope you have taken time to address speaker placement and at least some basic room acoustical treatments is they are needed. Otherwise, you are spinning your wheels.

If your room or speaker placement is affecting your bass performance, no amp will magically give you great bass. This also applies to the sub, something as simple as placement can make a significant difference. Poor placement can make even a strong sub sound inadequate.

Properly setup your 100's should have satisfying bass performance - even with the 1080.. If you want deep, low, ground shaking bass, no amp will make your 100's come close to what a good sub can do. If you have not yet done so, there is plenty of good reading on system setup and speaker placement on various audio websites.

[shadow]

Sub is a much better use of your money now, but the 1090 is going out of production so if you really want one, now is the time to do it.

[bleeding ears]

David, those neighbours of yours will be happy now that your accusound sub is gone. LOL

Mine is listed for sale also, hope you dont mind me using some of your sales pitch in my ad.

Pete

[DL86]

haha yeah they will be very happy that its gone. Yeah sure I don't mind.

gianni, referring to the room. I am not sure what else I could do to improve the acoustics, heavily carperted floors, big sofas, my main door is sound proofed, but thats about it. Speaker placement wise it is in the most logical position away from the rear wall about 10 inches and a decent amount from the sides and seating position in the most appropriate area. Anything in particular that you could suggest that I may need to consider?
Also one reason why I want to get the rb-1090 now is because their gonna be discontinued shortly here in Australia. Also if I do get the rb-1090 I don't want to be left bass hungry and regreting it why I didn't buy a sub.

Cheers, David

[grit]

Depends on what you use the system for. Music? HT? Both? And how important to you is the bass? How will you be feeding the sigal to it?

w/o more info, if yer into HT or mostly HT, get the sub. If you're in to music, I'd upgrade the amp, and get those speakers away from the back wall by 2-3 feet.

[Mark_C.]

All things being equal, you're going to notice the difference more by adding a sub rather than changing amps. The 1090 will let you play your speakers louder, but any other benefit is going to be subtle (maybe some increased detail). I found my Nautilus 804s bass shy and added a Rel Storm III sub. It blends perfectly with the 804s, but takes a lot of time to adjust. The result, though, is satisfying bass.

[DL86]

I am more into the music than HT, but I do watch the ocassional movie. If I get an rb-1090 I can then use the rb-1080 to power my surround speakers instead of using the amps inside my yamaha receiver. But definatly the music I take more seriously. I'm thinking it would be a wiser choice if i get the rb-1090 now, because if I get a sub now and I want to upgrade to a better amp later the only choice is going to be the rb-1092 which isn't as good as the rb-1090. What do you say?

Cheers, David

[miner]

I am more into the music than HT, but I do watch the ocassional movie. If I get an rb-1090 I can then use the rb-1080 to power my surround speakers instead of using the amps inside my yamaha receiver. But definatly the music I take more seriously. I'm thinking it would be a wiser choice if i get the rb-1090 now, because if I get a sub now and I want to upgrade to a better amp later the only choice is going to be the rb-1092 which isn't as good as the rb-1090. What do you say?

Cheers, David

1090 > 1092 is totally subjective. I actually feel the opposite. Use your own ears as judgement. I have done the side-by-side comparison along with another 1090 owner. Pros & cons of each amp. The 1090 owner was very pleased with the 1092's ability to bring sonic pleasure to the listeners. He too was sketical due to reading others opinions - he has now formed his own. When I was using my 1070 amp I added a ASW800 sub to complement my 804. IF I would have bought the 1092 first I definitely would have not purchased the sub.

[grit]

I agree with your opinion David, and with Miner. *I* personally prefer the 1090 over the 1092, and as Miner said, that is completely subjective (and I believe I'm in the minority). IMO, the 1092 pushed the sound stage too far forward to my taste. But yes, I'd get the amps now and add the sub later, *if* you still want it.

[Joey_V]

1090 over any of the other Rotel amps.

As for the sub.... I would finish the amp thing off and then go for the sub.

[DL86]

Alright, the amp it is. Funny thing is the only amp I can get from the top of line rotels is the rb-1090. Since my dealer doesn't stock the new rotel amplifiers. I sort of like the fact that the rb-1090 is 38kg in weight, since it saves me the time to have to talk my freinds through of what this thing can do.

I'll post back in about a weeks time, to give my opinion about the rb-1090.

[bleeding ears]

We, or at least I, will look forward to your findings with the 1090 amp, good luck to you and your neighbours. :lol:

[bigburner]

Nice upgrade, but only one problem - it won't fix your poor bass performance the same way that a sub will.

[mike c]

who are you kidding ... you'll buy both anyway ... best to get the amp now
"hurry while supplies last!!"

[gianni]

who are you kidding ... you'll buy both anyway ... best to get the amp now
"hurry while supplies last!!"

I'm afraid this is true.

[bleeding ears]

Dl86, suggest you checkout the Audioholics website they have a SPL1500R with some info on it.

Just thought this may help with your decision.

[DL86]

Ahhh, they finally got specs for it. thanks for that. I figure its gonna be something like 3.5 g aussie. I've decided to get the amp now. I really want that rb-1090 now that I think it won't be available later. I'm gonna get the sub at a later date and most likely a better one. Most likely I will get a paradigm servo 15 V2, my dealer can get me a whopping discount off one of those. If I'm gonna buy a 15 incher i'm set on the servo 15 v2. I don't think the spl-1500R will match the servo 15's performance. The price difference won't be that great either after discounting.

[DL86]

I just picked up the rb-1090 today. God damn it's freaking huge. Took me over an hour to get it up and running with rearangements to my setup. plugged everything in. I actually tried hooking up the rb-1090 and rb-1080 together on the same powerpoint and when I tried to switch it on the fuse blew! I then reserved that powerpoint for the rb-1090 only.

When I turned it on there was an audible hum comming out my speakers and was audible through out the room. Called up my salesmen and he told me to connect a cable between the chassis of my receiver and the 1090 and it should solve the problem, haven't tried it yet. Now the sound the moment I played something the sound difference between the 1080 and 1090 was striking! the 1090 does really add another dimension to the sound and not to mention how much smoother it sounds. I am now getting the bass I was expecting to get from my speakers when I first bought them, no so with the 1080. Also the sound is a lot more diffuse with the 1090 it would sound a little 2 dimensional, now with the 1090 it feels like sound is comming from all corners, in other words a huge sound stage. All the instruments on cd now sound much more real than they ever did with the 1080. Also any harshness I got before was now gone with the 1090. Oh and did I mention how much more I can crank my music with this baby. Now I actually feel more vibration of the floor from the increased bass performance from the 1090 than I did with the 1080.

My 1080 now serves as my surround speaker amplifier. I am 100% satisfied with the 1090 except I am still wondering whats the problem with this hum? I thought the 1090's didn't hum from reading off this forum? All this improvement yet I'm still running my yamaha rx-v657 as my pre amp and judging it straight out of the box with no break in time! what an amp! I'll post some pics soon.

[DL86]

pics here...

[DL86]

Humming problem solved!!!!!
I just connected a wire from the chassis of the rb-1090 to the chassis of yamaha rx-v657 and the hum is completely ELIMINATED. I did the same for my 1080 which had a tiny bit of hum now that is gone too. This could be the answer for many of us here in club rotel who experience such humming and buzzing problems.

[gianni]

Did you use a forklift or a crane to get that beast into your house? Congrats on your new toy!

[miner]

The RB-1090 is known to heat up - you may need to get more air space around the sides. Your rack loks too small for trhe amp.

[DL86]

To tell you the truth my rb-1090 barely gets warm. My 1080 however I can fry an egg on it. I was expecting the 1090 to heat up like crazy too. It gets warm but no where near as hot as the 1080.
A crane would have been useful for saving my back from lifting this beast!

[bleeding ears]

congratulations ,great stuff, when are you getting the sub?

Just kidding, great pics too!

Are the paradigms front or rear ported?

Do you ever get any boom with them close to the walls/rack, particularly the left front?

[miner]

To tell you the truth my rb-1090 barely gets warm. My 1080 however I can fry an egg on it. I was expecting the 1090 to heat up like crazy too. It gets warm but no where near as hot as the 1080.
A crane would have been useful for saving my back from lifting this beast!

One reason why I opted for the RB1092. Nice setup you have. Enjoy your endeavors.

[JDH]

To tell you the truth my rb-1090 barely gets warm. My 1080 however I can fry an egg on it. I was expecting the 1090 to heat up like crazy too. It gets warm but no where near as hot as the 1080.
A crane would have been useful for saving my back from lifting this beast!

The RB-1080 does run warmer than my other Rotel amps too, it would be good to have a bit more clearance either side of the amps, but the majority of the heat will rise vertically anyway, you seem to have a lot of space above each amp with the rack open at the front/back so it shouldn't be a problem.

[RebelMan]

I just picked up the rb-1090 today.

Good choice and nice setup DL86. :T

[DL86]

Thanks for the comments everyone.

Bleeding ears, the paradigms are front ported and I dont beleive I experience too much boom I try keep as much space as possible around the speakers. Also I don't think I'll be needing a sub with this combo I was just watching a movie and you could really feel the force of the bass and vibration that you would with a sub except the bass sounds so much better. All I can say is if you have the studio 100's and your running anything less than a rb-1090 you are seriously missing out.

[Joey_V]

Congrats on the new baby! Glad you dig the 1090!

[bleeding ears]

DL 86, how did you attach the wire from your amp to the receiver? and did you use speaker wire or an interconnect or other type?

[DL86]

It was just a single strand of speaker wire of about 14 guage. I just attached the wire to one of the screws of the chassis of both the amp and the receiver. No particular input/output connection of either the receiver or the amp just plain wire connecting the two chassis.

[obiwan]

But to a screw on the back plate or anywhere on the chasis. I imagine its got to be connected to metal.

And given I use a preamp going to Velodyne sub and then the high passed signal from the sub goes to the Rotel power amp, does that mean I should attach wire to all 3, preamp, amp and sub amp.

[DL86]

If you got serious buzzing/humming problems from your speakers than it would be a good idea to give it a try and yes bare metal.

[wkhanna]

So........
I must infer, as apposed to assume, that this was again a case of more (clean and brute) power bringing good speakers up to their potential?
I was waiting to see how this story would end, and it has reinforced my belief that power corrupts, absolutely!

[audiocvk]

We have a couple of RB-1090 running all day long and they never get hot, and barely even warm to the touch of your hand, they just mostly are very cool running here. If you have a hog hungry speaker, then it could possibly heat up more but so far they haven't with the hog hungry speakers we have.

Enjoy your new RB-1090 amp -- I know you will! I really like them, one of my favorite amps.

[drsiebling]

So, the RB-1090: Too much amp for a pair of Nautilus 804 speakers?

[shep]

No such thing as too much, as it really is a better amp than the 1070 and 1080. Stable down to 2 ohms, etc. Might be considered overkill in the power rating, but I am enjoying a long-term loaner 1090 while I consider just this proposition with my 804s. I may end up upgrading to the 803s, which is why I am considering this beast. Otherwise, I think that that the RB-1080 would be just fine for the 804.

[badboyspack]

Congrads on the new purchase.

I bet you are in love with that monster.

Time for a SVS sub, isnt she a beauty!

[DL86]

Thats a monster. Does anyone know if there are SVS subs available in Australia? Apparantly I have never seen any around.

[gd]

SVS is strictly online / mail order from the US.

Shipping might offset their very good pricing, but check 'em out: http://www.svsound.com/

[MoonSpin]

Congrads on the new purchase.

I bet you are in love with that monster.

Time for a SVS sub, isnt she a beauty!

She is a beaut!! Looks like you need to get it in copper cones to match those nice Klipsch RF-7 copper cones you have!!! :T ;x(

[Aussie Geoff]

Thats a monster. Does anyone know if there are SVS subs available in Australia? Apparantly I have never seen any around.

Try http://www.deephzaudio.com/ they have just acquired the rights for Australia and NZ and are Melbourne based..

Geoff

[shep]

Went with the RB-1090 and they make the 804s sing. Still thinking of the upgrade to the 803s, but have to wait for the bank account to recover...

Not seeking a sub with this set-up, but I have to admit that there are just a few pieces of music where I find really deep bass missing...