how do you guys feel about rotel switching over to class d

[peterS]

i think it sucks
my dealer says he anticipates all recievers being class d in a few years... lame

[tomm]

if it sounds better, what would suck about that?

[peterS]

if it sounds better, what would suck about that?

since when does class d sound better :roll:
the reasons are cost
cheaper to make and weighs less and takes up less volume and less of a relience on aluminum heatsink since there is greater efficiency

sq is not in the equation :roll:

[Kobus]

since when does class d sound better.

sq is not in the equation :roll:

This is still very early days. The 1077 had good reviews, some rating it better than the 1095.
Look at the reviews of the Nuforce amps. (Including product of the year)

Even if it sounds "the same", why not change to class D. If it is cheaper, in the end the consumer will get the benefit.

Market forces will dictate.

Kobus

[sprout]

I think this will evolve as another debate of those that buy by spec sheets alone, and those prepared to listen and be potentially enlightened :T

[peterS]

class d passes more current to the coil... not to mention the noise above 250hz that has to be compensated for

[pembroke]

I have not listened to a 'Class D' type amp yet, but a significant number of serious and respected audiophiles (and a regular contributors to this site) are very enthusiastic about the sound performance. Both NuForce and Channel Island Audio have won awards recently for their 'Class D' type power amps, and one of the CI Audio amps has been awarded by Stereophile.
This is enough to get my attention and take a listen, which I'm doing.
The technology is irrelevant - its all about the music!

[Kevin D]

Peter,

Which 'class D' amps have you listened too? Rotel's design isn't a true class D anyway, but will just go with it for now.

If they all sound as good or better then my 1077, I don't see an issue with it.

Kevin D.

[Cowanrg]

for all those who are disappointed with class d becoming the new thing...

i built a pair of hypex UCD400 monoblocks. guess what they replaced? a pair of Rotel B-1070 amps. and guess what? the UCD400's are much better sounding than the rotels. a lot more dynamics, more detail, more soundstage, etc.

give me class d if it sounds better. and if its cheaper, double bonus!

[Fishy]

I am seriously tempted to replace my 1095 with a 1077. PMC now have links with the Flying Mole digital amps, and their active range use these from the factory.

Fish

[srb]

Right now, it seems to me that the most of the really good class D (or analog modulated digital) amps have linear power supplies.

Those that have switching power supplies have a greater potential for generating RF noise that can interfere with radio reception and even possibly introduce a subtle high pitched whine into the audio stream.

There is a highly rated amp on the market that uses a switching supply, and although most agree it sounds very good, some have complained about the RF interfering with their radio tuners and some have experienced video interference.

I like the idea of graduating to a more efficient, lighter amplifier, but for now, if I do, I will most likely go with one that has a conventional linear power supply.

[Joey_V]

There are many who feel the 1095 sound better than the 1077 - I'm not sold on the Class D amps yet.

[Kevin D]

There are many who feel the 1095 sound better than the 1077 - I'm not sold on the Class D amps yet.

But what do you think?? That's the key here. Most people that offer opinions haven't actually listened.

Kevin D.

[GosonFletchy]

I have heard the Rotel "class D" amps and they rock. Although there is a slight difference in sound, and I am not saying that the difference is better or worse, I feel that the new amps are superior. The fact that they do not weigh a ton and take up little room is awesome, not having to worry about massive amounts of heat is incredible. I think that Rotel has done a great job with these new amps. I hope that they will continue to make both types but more than likely the new amps will take over.

G.

:assimilate:

[mjb]

i built a pair of hypex UCD400 monoblocks. guess what they replaced? a pair of Rotel B-1070 amps. and guess what? the UCD400's are much better sounding than the rotels. a lot more dynamics, more detail, more soundstage, etc.

Have you got any pics? I'd be interested to see them :T

[hockeypuck]

Will there be a big difference if I add a 1077 to my 1056. Generally,the difference in these wattages is so small that the difference should be negligable. Does the fact that these are Class D change the conventional wisdom?

[Kevin D]

Conventional wisdom is out the door. I would easily compare my 1077's 100 watts to my old 1095's 200 watts. Like Goson said, it is a slightly different sound that a lot of people like better.

Kevin D.

[grit]

I'm going to compare the 1095 vs the 1077 vs the 1091x2 today on Aerial 7b's (harder to drive than B&W 803S's). The reason for the test is that my Rotel 1075 @ 125 wpc won't properly drive the 7b's (closer to a 4 ohm load than 8 ohm). My understading is that class D amps can drive difficult loads without losing as much (if any) power. I'll let ya know what comes of it.

[hockeypuck]

Kevin,

Thanks. That is what I needed to know before I spent the $$$. I will most likely add the 1077 for my HT and use with other zones. I may get a chance to go listen to it this weekend. There are 2 dealers close by and the one I went to last weekend did not have it.

The fact that there is generous power and is cool running will attract many buyers who are going to house their equipment is a closed cabinet. No more need for extra fans and ventilation issues. The fact that you can get the performance of the 1095 in a 4+ inch space covers the WAF.

As time goes on I see these amps getting cheaper,like all technology,and taking over. There will be a new debate about warmth of sound etc.,but only for those willing to spend more and not move forward. There will still be something for everybody(we still will even have tubes)but the big money will be developing digital. Much like the video wars we are in now concerning LCD,plasma,DLP,LCOS etc. No clear winner but better performance and cheaper prices for the comsumer. CRT may still be the best picture,but space,profit and the marketplace have all but killed that beast.


I hope Rotel will also look to bring out some less powerful and cheaper 2 channel digital amps.Not sure I need orwant to spend for 500 watts in my bedroom. I would bet the next 1056 or its replacement will be digital. That would give them a lower priced product that beats the mainstream competition.

[marekk]

Kevin - "CRT may still be the best picture,but space,profit and the marketplace have all but killed that beast."
Well, actually Toshiba just made thin CRT screen that fires electrons from the gun but to all pixels at once and its image looks not any worse than plasmas, etc. They showed it at the last CES in Las Vegas. Well, the price of the technology fireing the electrons in a thin screen is very high at the moment, but there is still future for CRT TVs.

[Dmantis]

As cool and MANLY the the RMB1095 looks, a smaller amp would be very cool. I want to hear a RMB1077. If it's as good as most say, I would get one.

Dan

[DrJRapp]

To save everyone the task of having to read the long thread I started on the 1077, let me summarize. The 1077 with 2 channel material bested my RB 1080 by a lot, especially it's bass output. The RB 1080 is essentially 2 channels of a 1095 but quieter. By association, I would say that the 1077 would therefore sound better than a 1095 by a lot.

The RMB 1077 is now my favorite amp for pure HT. I have 2, and one is up for sale if anyone is interested.

[bleeding ears]

I have to agree with Mr Hockeypuck in that the new 500 watt digital amps are a bit over the top for most people, even HT/ Hi Fi nuts. LOL

Since the 100 watt 1077 amp apparently does so well driving speakers and by most reports sounds pretty good, where are the 2 channel average joe (me) priced amps?

A 150 watt 2 channel digital amp at a fraction of the cost of an analogue amp will do me fine. That is if they sound as good or better than analogue.

Ok maybe a 250 watt amp. :lol: LOL

Pete

[grit]

I demoed the 1077, 1075, 1080 and 1091x2 on Aerial 7b's yesterday (these are very difficult to drive, much harder than B&W 803's). Everything else was constant (Krell showcase DVD player via analog out to a Rotel stereo preamp). The room was about 20x16 and everything was set up as is about normal.

As Jerry's said, the 1077 is more forward in it's presentation. The sound stage felt like it was in my lap, which I quite frankly didn't like. It did have more power than the 1075, allowing more high end notes through and some better control over the low end. I've also tried a Classe 2100 with these speakers. None of these amps has anywhere near enough current to properly power these speakers.

The 1080 provided enough power to deliver appropriate highs and enough control over the low end to keep it from becomming soggy. The sound stage was, IMO, appropriately dispursed across the front, and was my favorite. My initial respose to the 1091x2 combo (for about 2 seconds) was WOW! The higher power really had the highs coming out beautifully and the power was really there to control the low end. Then I heard the vocals. I honestly thought the speakers were out of phase. We tripple checked... no such thing. The sound stage was VERY wide... too wide. There didn't appear to be anything in the middle. I switched through several CDs, all with the same results. My best explanation is that the sound stage was pushed forward, just as with the 1077... so much so this time, that it felt like the stage was BEHIND me. I'm absoulutely unimpressed with the imaging of these amps.

Admittedly, the 1091's were not fully broken in. Another possbility is that the Rotel class D amps do push the sound stage forward and require a new paradigm in positioning speakers, or perhaps just a larger room than I'm use to needing (or than I have available). I did try adjusting toe-in, but did not move the speakers around the room. Perhaps they don't image as well with more difficult loads (that doesn't make sense really, given the nature of class-D amps). And finally, perhaps, I just don't like the sound. I'm really surprised that almost every other person who has listened to these amps has not had a similar experience (whether they prefer the result or not).

Again, I'm only offering my experience and resulting opinion. I'm not trying to sway anyone or argue against these amps. Given that I don't like them, I certainly hope conventional amps don't leave the marketplace, or that they offer a more conventional sounding class D amp.

[hockeypuck]

Jerry,
Please PM me with the price. I live down in Weston so I could even pick it up if the price is right.
Thanks.