1098 Analog Audio Weirdness

[skipm]

Hey Guys-

I have a JVC HM-DH30000H D-VHS VCR on Video 4 connected via component video 4, optical audio 2, and the analog audio/video 4 inputs. Everything works as expected when playing D-Theater HDTV video tapes (except for no video on the 1098 screen). The JVC will not pass an analog audio signal over the optical audio output so that's why I have the analog audio connected as well. When I play a regular VHS tape I see the video (still no video on the 1098 screen) on my plasma but I get no sound.

No this is where the weirdness starts. I thought something might be amiss with my Video 4 setup so I started scrolling through the various audio inputs. It was set to optical 2 just like it was supposed to be but when I started scrolling through the inputs I started hearing the audio on optical 1, coax 5, coax 4, and analog! I don't have anything connected to these inputs! What's going on here? A little further checking revealed that as long as there wasn't an active signal on the digital input I could hear the analog output. I could even hear it on coax 3, my DVD player input as long as the DVD player was in standby mode.

I'm used to some British quirkyness (I own a Land Rover Discovery) but I'm not sure what to do about this. I can live without the video showing up on the 1098 but I don't want to have to change the audio input selection every time I watch a VHS tape.

And another thing, I'm sitting here watching TV through my Samsung SIR-T151, an OTA STB, and every few minutes the 1098 thinks it's lost the audio so it makes 2 or 3 clicking noises while it tries to figure out what kind of signal it is. It's way too sensitive and the clicking every few minutes is driving me nuts!

Can someone check to see if their 1098 is switching correctly from digital to analog audio signals and let me know. I want to have my ducks in a row before I call Rotel.

Thanx,

-Skip

[Scarp]

Skip,

You have optical 2 assigned to video 4 and you have an analog input on video 4 right? And in some cases nothing is send to the optical by your player but only to the analog, but u don't hear anything?
Is the 1098 still getting something through the optical (not sound, but some weak signal) and therefore not going to the analog input? I know on the 1066 you can force it to use to analog input by pressing the "D-SLT" button on the remote (its hidden under the panel).

So obviously when switching to a digital input that sends out no signal (dvd in standby mode!) on the video 4 signal will automatically make the 1098 revert to the analog input and you will hear sound.

My guess is that its a problem with your JVC machine, which sends out some kind of signal on the optical making the 1098 go to the optical only.
So try switching with the D-SLT button.

Watching TV, is that done digitally or analog? If its analog then make sure no digital input is selected for that input.

[skipm]

Scarp-

I have the following video sources configured on my 1098:

Video 1 - STB, In: Coax 1
Video 2 - CBL, In: Coax 2
Video 3 - DVD, In: Coax 3
Video 4 - VCR, In: Opt. 2
Video 5 - PVR, In: Opt. 3

Video is through the appropriate component input except the PVR which is connected to S-Video 5. The other digital inputs, Opt. 1 and Coax 4 & 5, have no devices connected to them.


The D-SLT button on the 1050 remote that came with my 1098 doesn't toggle the input to Analog, it actually lets you cycle through all the inputs. Kinda nice, I didn't know it did this. Anyway, with all sources turned off except for the VCR and a standard VHS tape playing in the VCR. This VCR by the way will not pass an analog signal thru the digital out. These are the results with each suceeding press of the D-SLT button:

1: Opt. 3 - no sound (but now I have video on the 1098 TFT screen!)
2: Coax 1 - sound
3: Coax 2 - no sound
4: Coax 3 - sound
5: Coax 4 - sound
6: Coax 5 - sound
7: Analog - sound
8: Opt. 1 - sound
9: Opt. 2 - no sound

It would make sense if we assume the 1098 was sensing some sort of signal on Opt. 2 and therefore not automatically switching to Analog but I can't even begin to explain why I'm hearing an analog signal over these other digital inputs. And it's not bleed thru either, it's a full blown analog signal.

Any other ideas?

-Skip

[Andrew Pratt]

to see the HDTV signal on the TFT screen you'll have to enable the progressive option for that device...which will only work I think when its getting a progressive signal...when you watch a regular VHS tape from the VCR you'll need to set it back to non progressive. For the digital inputs the 1098 will try to autosense what's coming in and by defualt picks the digital input so I think your VCR is still sending something out the optical output which is why the Rotel doensn't automatically switch over to analog. When you cycle though the various digital inputs it will query that input and if there's nothing there it will search the others or try analog which is why you'll still hear the VCR from Coax 1 etc when its connected to optical 1...at least that's my understanding.

[Scarp]

Indeed, as I and Andrew explained ... you are only switching the digital input now, so its not bleed thru but just the analog signal.

And I do think its just a matter of your VCR still giving a signal on its optical output.

I checked the manual and can't see a way to switch between analog to digital and vice versa ... maybe I'm not looking well or Rotel forgot to implement a manual digital/analog input selection (Andrew, could ask? Otherwise put it on the list of todo things for a new firmware).
Maybe try pressing the 2CH button a couple of times, see if that switches ... since in analog mode it does switch between normal analog and analog bypass.

Are you using a tuner (or any other input leftover)? If not you can use the Tuner analog input for your VCR and also assign the correct video input to that input. Then when listening to analog video's you'll have to switch to the tuner and the picture should also come up and otherwise keep it at the video 2 input.

[rlin]

SkipM, I believe I have an explanation for you because I have observed the same phenomenon after 1 week of troubleshooting video glitches on my 1098 (see my prev. thread).

First of all, I have to complement that Rotel has designed a smart way of handing analog and digital incoming signals. You can assign any digital input to a designated corresponding device. In addition, you can also link a particular VIDEO signal to an AUDIO input. Take your case, you assigned Optical 2 to Video 4. In the ABSENCE of digital signal, the 1098 automatically revert back to its corresponding analog input, in this case Analog Audio Inputs for Video 4. But in your case the 1098 did NOT revert back because your JVC DVHS is CONSTANTLY outputting digital signal, even in the case of playing back an ANALOG tape, in the form of "silent" digital signal. This is a case where the designer of 1098 cannot anticipate nor overcome.

I do have a solution for you: Connect ANALOG output of your DVHS to an UNUSED AUDIO input and ASSIGN THAT AUDIO INPUT WITH VIDEO 4!!! For example, if your TUNER audio input is not used, connect the analog output of your DVHS to it and then assign Video 4 to TUNER. Anytime you are going to watch Analog VHS tape just switch to TUNER input and your problem is solved.

To address the second part of your question, "why do I hear Audio on other digital inputs even though no digital components are connected?" I have observed this as well. Basically there's CROSS TALK between digital inputs. For example, on my 1098 even though my DVD is connected digitally to Optical 1 I can hear the same audio in Optical 2 (not connected to any device), Optical 3 (not connected to any device), albeit at a MUCH lower volume. However, as soon as I connect something to Optical 2, I don't hear ANY cross talk. I think the explanantion is that in the presence of incoming Optical 2 signal the 1098 LOCK ONTO the Optical 2 signal and reject the cross talk - which is ESSENTIAL because you don't want Optical 1 to contaminate signals in Optical 2. Please test my theory...as long as there's something connected to each of the digital input you should not hear any crosstalk.

Anyway 1098 is a great processor if only Rotel can figure out and solve my video glitch problem.

Robert

[skipm]

Andrew, Scarp, & Robert-

Thanx for the explanation and work-arounds. The work-around suggested by Scarp and Robert is brillant except for 1 minor issue. I checked both the Tuner and Tape source settings and neither one of them will allow you to set Dolby Pro Logic II Cinema as the default Mode. Dolby Pro Logic II Music is the default setting and when you cycle through the choices, PL II Cinema doesn't come up. I actually know people who perfer PL II music when watching movies and PL II cinema when listening to music. It's still a great work-around and I'll set it up this way. I'll just need a VHS and D-VHS button/macro on the remote.

Andrew, speaking of remotes, I know you are a Pronto guru and I was wondering if you had figured out a way to program the Display button functionality on a Pronto. It would be nice to push the "Display" button on the remote and cycle through the various sources to see what else was on. You could even leave the screen on a different souce and keep up with two shows at once. The 1050 remote has a button labeled "Display" but it doesn't appear to do anything on the 1098.

Scarp, I agree with you that there needs to be a way to toggle between the audio digital and analog inputs. My Denon 3803 would not automatically switch but it did have a button toggle to switch from digital to analog. That's how I had this VCR set up before and one of of the reasons for getting the Rotel was because of it's automatic switching ability.

I don't want anyone else reading this thread to think that I'm not happy with the 1098. It is a remarkable unit and I'm quite happy with it. It's the most complicated processor/receiver I've own to date yet it has also been the easiest one to setup by far. It's also been the best sounding as well. I think you would be hard pressed to find a more flexible processor at any price let alone what you can pick up one of these for.

Thanx again for everyone's help. I think we are uncovering some valuable information here that will be of use for a lot of folks.

Robert, I hope you get your video problem resolved. Sorry I couldn't help you troubleshoot that one but I have a plasma not a projector and the video has been picture perfect for me in 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i modes.

Now, where's that Wish List thread.

-Skip

[Scarp]

I'm still amazed that you got so many things hooked up to that machine. Wow... I never use any of the video switching capabilities of these A/V machines, since I connect everything directly to my TV with Scart cables and that gets me the best quality. Component connections are hardly used here in Europe (only on Projectors and a handfull of tv's).

Well... put the analog/digital switching in the wishlist thread and hopefully Rotel will fix that, so that you can use your 1098 normally.

Another thing ... maybe contact the maker of your VCR and ask them why they send out a signal through the optical cable even though it only outputs to the analog. Because its actually 99% a problem with the VCR and not with the Rotel.

Here is the wishlist topic

[Kevin D]

If the 1098 is like the 1066, once you select PLII Music, you have to hit enter and then change it to Cinema under the advanced settings.

Kevin D.

[Andrew Pratt]

as far as the display goes I'm working with Rotel on a solution for us

[skipm]

If the 1098 is like the 1066, once you select PLII Music, you have to hit enter and then change it to Cinema under the advanced settings.

Kevin D.

Kevin-

You're right! Good pick up. With the Mode set to PL II Music you press Enter, then Options, press Enter again and you can change Music to Cinema.