Check out THESE PICS!! 56k warning

[Orange Peel]

Got some REAL pics done by a friend, let me know what you think!! Let me know if that's too many on the screen, I can delete them. I got more where that came from too I got the color shots of the sapia ones as well, man they look gorgeous!!!!!!

[BlazeMaster]

there you go...that's the way to show love for your gear...lol
nice stuff there...

[egaither]

I'm a graphic designer, so I'm quite picky but some nice shots here. I'd definitely either retouch photos in Photoshop or have him reshoot ones with lots of dust.

The shots with selective focus look a bit more high end and interesting too. :T

[SpOoNmAn]

are you using the Elite as the pro/pro? If it was a higher end one, and has good resale value, maybe sell it and get a Rotel to match the sexy amp?

Nice pics, its great to see people get excited about their gear, and you have reason to be.

[soundhound]

Klipsch Reference/ Rotel, Sweet!!! (and I 2nd what Spoonman said)

[Orange Peel]

Blaze - Thanks for the compliments!

egaither - Thanks, I didn't get a chance to dust the equipment before he came over, and I didn't think there was that much dust on the stuff That camera really shows off the finer things

Spoonman - I am using the Elite as a Pre-pro, and I'm one step ahead of you, my Rotel RSP 1098 should have been here already, looks like next week it will show up, then the Elite is sold and I recoupe some of the cost. Thanks for the compliments!

Soundhound - Thanks dude!

[DrJRapp]

Scott

Way to go guy! I particularly like the shot of the Klipsch logo showing the spikes on the RF7. Very artsy! Any reason the RC7 isn't centered on the RPTV screen?

[Orange Peel]

Jerry - Thanks buddy! The reason for the non centered center is that sometimes I go back and forth to see if there is any sound difference, and in these shots we caught me in the off center days It's funny, when it's centered and I show pics of it, people always ask why it's center and not more to the right to make a more equal soundstage hehe

Here's a couple more pics and a color shot of the Rotel....

[DrJRapp]

when it's centered and I show pics of it, people always ask why it's center and not more to the right to make a more equal soundstage hehe

Acttualy the purpose of a center is to anchor dialog in the center of the screen, so I wouldn't worry too much about "even soundstage". That is probably a good point to remember as you proceed into HT installations. The ONLY speaker who's location is truely critical to soundstage is the center. Also, the more off axis the seating position, the more a "decentered" center becomes an issue.

Love that shot of the RF7 woofer...the Copper Cerimatalics are sooooooo cool! It's almost a shame that the Premiers won't have them. But that's a Klipsch forum issue...LOL

[will1066]

No offense, but why weren't these pics posted in the Sticky thread? They really belong there, and it keeps the Sticky active and interesting.

[Orange Peel]

Thanks Jerry!! I will move it back to center, I couldn't really tell a difference either way.

Will - I just posted them here because most probably don't notice that sticky, I didn't know it was there for the longest time, and right now it's just an argument thread about a sub placement. When this thread dies I will put them in there for "sticky" purposes.

[Andrew Pratt]

Scott if you want I can just merge the two threads together instead of having you repost them....oh and NICE pic's

[Orange Peel]

If you want, doesn't matter to me, I just didn't want to clog up that pic thread And thanks for the compliments!

[mitch57]

I'm curioius to know if all of you really think that moving from a higher end Receiver such as the Integra, Pioneer Elites, Denon, etc. to a seperate Pre/Pro really makes a "Blow your Socks" off difference?

I have a Denon 3805 as my Pre/Pro with the Rotel RMB-1095 and I think it kicks butt! I haven't auditioned the seperates in my home but I've read several forums that claim the higher end receivers can be as good and in some cases better then some of the seperate Pre/Pros out there.

What say you?

[Martinf]

Scott -- amazing system, but with the Denon DVD-1600? That's what I call "under-kill". You need something more like the DVD-5900 surely? (Actually -- wait for the upcoming -5910 !!). Even on my humble setup I can clearly hear the difference with my -5900 (using the analog outputs from the DVD player for DVD-Audio material going into my Rotel pre-pro's 6-channel analog bypass. The -5900's digital bass management is also much better than the -1600's.

Likewise with your huge video display -- the DVD-5900 / -5910 would give a much better progressive-scan picture than your DVD-1600 budget player.

b.t.w. GREAT photography! -- what type of camera did you use?

[will1066]

I'm curioius to know if all of you really think that moving from a higher end Receiver such as the Integra, Pioneer Elites, Denon, etc. to a seperate Pre/Pro really makes a "Blow your Socks" off difference?

I have a Denon 3805 as my Pre/Pro with the Rotel RMB-1095 and I think it kicks butt! I haven't auditioned the seperates in my home but I've read several forums that claim the higher end receivers can be as good and in some cases better then some of the seperate Pre/Pros out there.

What say you?

"Blow your socks off" might be stretching it, unless you spend quite a higher sum of money. Higher-end receivers are very capable and can approach separates, but the latter are almost always better because of lower noise floors and better power supplies.

Oh, Orange Peel, nice photos. Sorry if I came across rudely.

[PewterTA]

Sweet Pics, you will have to dust and take more pics once you get the 1098! :T

[Orange Peel]

Mitch - People say there's a big difference, so I figured what the hell, I want a nice seperate dedicated processor, so I went with the 1098, I will let you know the sound difference next week

Martin - Thanks dude, as for the Denon, I have had it for a while, ever since it came out, it's been a damn good player so far. I have looked into a new player, I like the Denon DVD 3910 and may pick one up, but the cost to performance ratio over my current player will be the deciding factor. I have asked about the benefit of switching players, and most say it's not that much of a difference to worry about right now, wait until the newer 1080i upconverting players are more popular and out, etc. But who knows, I don't listen to DVD-audio, I want to and plan to do so when I get the 1098, but for now, I just watch movies, and listen to regular CD's in it. It has no chroma bug and does a decent job with the picture. I do plan to get a new one, just not sure what one

As for the camera, not sure, it was a Canon something or another, the bigger ones with the lenses you can swap out, etc. It was a friend of mine that took the pics, he does photography on the side Damn dust shows up pretty well though

[Orange Peel]

Will - Thanks dude, and no sweat, no rudeness taken! I hope the switch from the Elite VSX-53TX (A GREAT receiver but not the best) to the RSP 1098 will show some improvement, if not, time to try something else

Dan - thanks, and no kidding, the stuff wasn't even that dusty (to the human EYE), but that camera sure found it

[PewterTA]

Any cool pics of the PB12-ultra/2????

Pictures of the Ultra drivers would be really cool, love the look and sound of them. 8O

[Orange Peel]

He did take some of the SVS, but for some reason he didn't email them to me, maybe they turned out crappy. I won't be taking the base plate off anytime soon, so no pics of the drivers

[Orange Peel]

Some more for ya guys....

[Andrew Pratt]

I'm curioius to know if all of you really think that moving from a higher end Receiver such as the Integra, Pioneer Elites, Denon, etc. to a seperate Pre/Pro really makes a "Blow your Socks" off difference?

Every time I've made that change its been significant and there's plenty of people that have made the swap and found similar results.

As for the Denon 1600 its still one of the highest rated DVD players ever made from an image stand point so I'd be in no major hurry to replace it. Sure the newer denon's have better on board audio but from an analog video perspective the 1600 has nothing to be ashamed of. Now if your TV has a digital video input that might be worth looking into but otherwise its not the weak link IMO

[Orange Peel]

Thanks Andrew, that's what I keep hearing and noticing. I haven't used the analog audio out on the DVD 1600, just the optical audio for output. I run component cables to my TV and that's that. My TV doesn't have DVI or HDMI, so I'm kind of content right now, having the ability to play SACD would be nice on the other hand But until something killer comes out like the upscaler players (a brand I like) I will stick with the DVD 1600 until it breaks

[Martinf]

>> just the optical audio for output <<

Have you tried the SP/DIF instead? I've always found the optical to be inferior in audio quality. In fact, when shopping for a UK PAL digital terrestrial TV box, I got the Phillips one specifically because it had SP/DIF digital audio output (which goes into my pre-pro for DPLII processing with no conversion in between). Similarly for films I always use SP/DIF from the Denon.

[Orange Peel]

I haven't tried anything besides the digital out. Never felt the need, and was under the impression that digital was better than analog when it comes to movies?

[Martinf]

There are TWO digital output types from your Denon: "Optical" and "Co-axial". The latter uses a 75 Ohm electrical (digital) interconnect cable. It seems that you are using "optical".

IMHO The electrical cable is superior for the digital audio data transmission from DVD players.

b.t.w. "SP/DIF" stands for: "Sony Phillips Digital Interface".

[Orange Peel]

I have tried both the digital coax and the optical and I stick with the optical. Just seems to cause less interferance issues with other components, etc. I use a digital coax on my COX HD box, and optical on my XBOX. My Elite only has so many optical and digital coax inputs, so I maxed out the optical and have to use coax for the cable box. Maybe I will swap them out now that I got the RMB 1095 and see if I hear any difference. I couldn't hear a difference before between the two cables.

Thanks for the clarification on the SP/DIF, wasn't sure what you meant on that

[PewterTA]

I'm still a believer that there is NO difference, provided the digital to optical and optical to digital converters are of a great quality. This is the only place where the sound quality could possibly change (can lead to error rates in the stream). I am one that can't tell any difference between my optical and digital-coax connections (both use Cobalt Cable connections). I do know that some DVD players have better optical or Digital coax parts and this can lead to a better, or worse sound...

But as far as transmission...it's all still 1s and 0s.

Scott, you will have to get used to only having 3 optical inputs with the 1098, so you might have to switch some things over to Digital Coax.

[Orange Peel]

I only have 2 optical cables right now, so I am set

[DrJRapp]

I'm curioius to know if all of you really think that moving from a higher end Receiver such as the Integra, Pioneer Elites, Denon, etc. to a seperate Pre/Pro really makes a "Blow your Socks" off difference?

I moved from using a Denon 3801 (earlier predicessor of the 3805) to a RSP 1066 and the difference there "blew my sox off". Then I recently I upgraded to the 1098 and the difference was so huge that it was difficult to descibe fully in words. You do the math.

SCOTT: I am also one who never could hear an audible difference between coax and toslink. Toslink does have the avantage of not having any electrical grounding path between signal source and processor..minimizing risk of ground loops.

[Orange Peel]

haha, very true Jerry, that's what I say. I will try the 5 channel analog connection when I get my 1098, pick up some more cables for it and see what it can do.

[Martinf]

Scott,

With all that speakerage, and 5.1 surround-sound amplification, you will surely be missing out if you don't give DVD-Audio a try! (24bit Advanced Resolution in 5.1 multichannel). But remember, connections are critical. From my DVD-5900 I use six analog-out interconnects into the six multichannel analog-bypass inputs of my Rotel RSP-1066 pre-pro. And the results are amazing! 8)

You really must hear these on DVD-A:-

~ Emerson Lake Palmer’s "Brain Salad Surgery"

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000507R0/104-7923094-2839139?v=glance&s=music

~ Flaming Lips "Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots"

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000B1A2O/qid=1103290620/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/104-7923094-2839139?v=glance&s=music

~ Mike Oldfield’s "Tubular Bells 2003"

http://www.dvdempire.com/Exec/v4_item.asp?userid=00000362524463&searchID=298693&item_id=550587

(This Christmas you get a free DVD-A sampler with any DVDEmpire DVD-A order!)

~ Porcupine Tree "In Absentia"

http://www.dvdempire.com/exec/v4_item.asp?userid=00000362524463&item_id=604284

~ Handel’s "Messiah" (Arts Music)

http://www.dvdempire.com/Exec/v4_item.asp?userid=00000362524463&item_id=590448

~ AIX "Christmas All Stars"

http://www.aixrecords.com/catalog/christmas.html

~ Pat Metheny — "Imaginary Day"

http://www.dvdempire.com/Exec/v4_item.asp?userid=00000362524463&item_id=37307

~ Eagles "Hotel California"

http://www.dvdempire.com/Exec/v4_item.asp?userid=00000362524463&item_id=42602

~ Vivaldi "Four Seasons" (Naxos)

http://www.dvdempire.com/Exec/v4_item.asp?userid=00000362524463&item_id=39522

IMO, the 3910 is not a sufficiently big step up in audio/video quality from your -1600, but the higher models definitely are in a different league altogether! These will include the soon-to-available DVD-5910. This baby will have everything (including one-cable HDMI digital audio/video interconnect interface).

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/denon-press-conference-12-2004.html

Drool! However, Denon has raised the price significantly over the earlier -5900, so maybe you could look for a second-hand deal on a 2004-build -5900 (as I know that 2003 build ones had problems since I was a Denon beta tester, but I now have a newer 2004 production model)
(By the way, my -5900 does upscale to 1080i etc.)

Note that given the significant cost which you have expended on the big Rotel amp, processor, subwoofer, power-conditioning, Klipsch speakers, and large screen, etc. then believe me, good though it is, you are not doing your system justice with the entry-level DVD-1600. Besides, it has a tiny internal power supply section. For comparison, the -5900 has two large internal power supplies (for its segregated audio and video sections which each have their own dedicated power supplies), and much better subwoofer control — up to 10dB more output gain, and user-selectable filter/cutoff slopes. (And the -5900 does this bass management for high-resolution DVD-Audio too because it has two 32-bit SHARC DSPs.)

In short, I’ve gone the other way round from you, and put most of my money into the audio/video source itself — i.e. the DVD-5900 — which costs more than the RMB-1075 and the RSP-1066 combined. I reckon that’s the way it should be.

Regarding Optical versus Co-axial digital cables, I can tell you there IS a clear difference between them. It's mainly heard in the highest treble frequencies. Using a non-lossy source such as CD, you should hear that cymbals are much clearer when using the electrical digital interconnect, and not "fizzy" or "grainy" which I hear with an optical connection. Better soundstaging focus and lower jitter will result too with an incoming electical digital signal to your processor. In short — optical TosLink should never have been introduced on DVD players. It’s a nice idea, but in practice it truly sucks. And IMHO it should be banned forthwith!

The problem with the optical transmission is the conversion from electrical signal into light pulses, and then back again into electrical. But when you use the electrical cable, there is no such conversion. And if it’s a good coaxial 75 ohm configuration with appropriate insulation, you should get no interference.

Maybe with lossy/low-resolution sources such as Dolby or DTS, the difference won’t be as pronounced because the data rate is lower than compared with lossless linear-PCM sources, and I feel Dolby’s compressed upper treble sounds grainy and fizzy in any case.

Anyway, don’t wait to get some DVD-As to play in your -1600. You really don’t know what you are missing! 8)

[PewterTA]

I think the real problem or why DVD-A and SACD haven't taken off is because of the lack of artist support. There is so many DVD-As and SACDs that, yes, they might sound great...but the artist sucks! ha ha. Or why would I listen to something that sounds really good and I'm not interested in the music what so ever...?!

I have a few of my favorites in DVD-A and SACD, but there's a lot that everyone says is fantastic...but I wouldn't be caught dead listening to it... Not saying they are bad, just not my thing. SO why get it?!

Scott, if there is DVD-A that you are interested in hearing, pick it up, it is definitely a better experience...but if there's no music you are into on the formats...then what's the use?!

I went out and bought all the cables for DVD-A since I was buying all new Belden cables from a company I can't say on here. Needless to say it was much cheaper and still the same exact quality. lol

Anyways, I think if you got the time, money, and there's something you'd like to listen to, definitely try it out!

I'm still not certain if I believe there's any difference in Optical or Digital Coax... IF the converters are of the right quality to transfer the digital to light... Basically what Martin is saying is he's never found a product that's used the right DLCs and this is where he's noticed the sound quality difference... But theoretically, they are the same. Just adds one more step to process, which a lot of people don't like...

Just a personal preference I guess. I use whichever...just depends on what cable I have laying around.

[Martinf]

>> Scott, if there is DVD-A that you are interested in hearing, pick it up, it is definitely a better experience...but if there's no music you are into on the formats...then what's the use?! <<

Pewter, with respect, that's the same old, same old and tired argument I hear from people who simply have not bothered to look. What you say about lack of artists on DVD-A is simply not true.

b.t.w. I've listed some very good titles from good artists in my post above. Have you never heard of Flaming Lips? Eagles? ELP? Mike Oldfield? Frank Zappa's "Halloween" etc. etc. And I have many, many more (approx 100 DVD-As in my collection. And it's growing).

Scott has a DVD-A capable player, so he has nothing to lose by getting some of the above titles. Maybe you should try them too. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

And then you'll both realise how bad plain Dolby Digital, or even DTS, really are! (compared with Advanced Resolution lossless multichannel DVD-A). Especially on a system like Scott's.

[will1066]

The February copy of Sound & Vision (a U.S. magazine) presents a very gloomy forecast for SACD and DVD-A. I don't think it's accessible online yet (too new). Unless you're already subscribing, get it at the newsstand/newsagent.

[Martinf]

>> The February copy of Sound & Vision (a U.S. magazine) presents a very gloomy forecast for SACD and DVD-A. <<

So what. I'm listening to my DVD-As right now, regardless of what any forecast may say.

[will1066]

Enjoy them while they last.

[Martinf]

>> Enjoy them while they last.<<

You aren't making any sense. :roll:

[will1066]

You know, you're the second person to tell me that today, even though I know you know what I mean. Maybe it's water I'm drinking. Point is, who know how much longer SACD and DVD-A will be produced. Remember Philips' Digital Compact Cassette (DCC) format? It may have a couple of new neighbors in the format graveyard.

[Martinf]

DVD-A is an open, accessible format for artists. It cannot be killed; it is not "owned" by one company; and it won't "die". It is part of the DVD spec. Moreover, the underlying 24 bit 96kHz LPCM spec is what most studios use now anyway.

(That's quite different to SACD's DSD which IS being dropped by its creator -- Sony.)

b.t.w. last year, according to RIAA, sales of DVD-A increased, while those of hybrid SACD dropped.

[PewterTA]

Pewter, with respect, that's the same old, same old and tired argument I hear from people who simply have not bothered to look. What you say about lack of artists on DVD-A is simply not true.

b.t.w. I've listed some very good titles from good artists in my post above. Have you never heard of Flaming Lips? Eagles? ELP? Mike Oldfield? Frank Zappa's "Halloween" etc. etc. And I have many, many more (approx 100 DVD-As in my collection. And it's growing).

Scott has a DVD-A capable player, so he has nothing to lose by getting some of the above titles. Maybe you should try them too. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

And then you'll both realise how bad plain Dolby Digital, or even DTS, really are! (compared with Advanced Resolution lossless multichannel DVD-A). Especially on a system like Scott's.

So basically, learn to like music that you DON'T, because it sounds really good?!!?

I listen to probably the most wide range of music of anyone. Everything from Aerosmith to Wolfgang Mozart and anything and everything in between... But there are a lot of artists I DON'T like (a lot of which falls into the Country aspect)... So out of the artists you name, "...Flaming Lips? Eagles? ELP? Mike Oldfield? Frank Zappa's "Halloween".." the only one that I actually somewhat care for is the Eagles....

So what's the point in buying DVD-As if I"m not going to really listen to them and get the enjoyment out of them.

I can give you a list of about 400 bands that AREN'T in DVD-A or SACD format that I really WISH were!!! DVD-A is still in it's infancy in this respect. The Metallica & Santana DVD-As I have I do like, I just wish there was more...

So for me, its just a little hard for me to say go and blow a whole lot of money on a bunch of things that you might what...listen to once and decide you don't like it?!?! You add that up, theres a new Amp, Speakers...whatever.

[will1066]

Specs are one thing. You don't find plentiful DVD-A next to DVD-V in retail, do you? Well, I don't, here in New York and probably elsewhere. Usually, they're stocked in some back corner. There are plenty of specialty retailers online, but the mass market stores have been abysmal in marketing them. I had hoped the formats would become at least accepted among the general public, if not become popular, but they aren't and won't seem to be anytime soon. And I was under the impression that the music labels control what gets pressed and in which format, not the artists.

Pewter, for DVD-A, if you like Metallica, I recommend Stone Temple Pilots' "Core".

[Martinf]

I get all my music online anyway -- CDs, DVD-Vs, DVD-As etc.

Whatever happens in stores is of no concern to me.

By the way, despite the critics' best efforts to deride it, DualDiscs ARE selling in stores in the CD aisles, (e.g. Simple Plan's album went platinum) and the DualDisc has DVD-Audio on the DVD side. Also, I recently received the DVD-Audio/DualDiscs by Nine-Inch-Nails and Blondie. Both are selling in the CD aisles of record stores.

And even if "DualDisc" does not work out in the longrun, then the inclusion of a CD+DVDA in one CD box -- i.e. "Dual Discs" -- is happening anyway. Take, for example, R.E.M's entire back-catalog on Warner. Coming to us in early 2005.

[Martinf]

To Will1066:-

>> I listen to probably the most wide range of music of anyone. Everything from Aerosmith to Wolfgang Mozart and anything and everything in between... But there are a lot of artists I DON'T like (a lot of which falls into the Country aspect)... So out of the artists you name, "...Flaming Lips? Eagles? ELP? Mike Oldfield? Frank Zappa's "Halloween".." the only one that I actually somewhat care for is the Eagles.... <<

Well I DO like all the titles which I've listed.

>> So what's the point in buying DVD-As if I"m not going to really listen to them and get the enjoyment out of them.<<

Do as you please. You do not represent the taste's of most people out there.

>> I can give you a list of about 400 bands that AREN'T in DVD-A or SACD format that I really WISH were!!! DVD-A is still in it's infancy in this respect. The Metallica & Santana DVD-As I have I do like, I just wish there was more...<<

Even if there were, could you afford to buy them all? I couldn't.

There's about 1,000 titles out on DVDA right now, and of those, there are more titles that I want for the music alone than I can actually afford.

(And I wouldn't have the time to listen to them all anyway. And then the gym, pub, or a restaurant often takes priority when I'm not stuck in the office.)

>> You add that up, theres a new Amp, Speakers...whatever <<

But what's the use of of a super-duper amp & speakers, if the source resolution is crap? :W