Integra DTC-9.8 from Integra Research RDC-7.1

[Minge]

I was wondering if anyone in this forum has made the jump from the RDC7.1 to the DTC-9.8 and if that experience has been possitive or negative or somewhere in between.

I have been waiting to make the move to a pre-pro that handles all of today's audio formats and also waiting in the wings for blu-ray and HD-DVD to slug it out. Now that blu-ray has won that war I am looking to take the plung. I have been very happy with my RDC-7 as it is built like a tank and it sonically is an excellent performer.

I would love to hear first hand experience in this regard.

Thanks to all!!

[wettou]

I refuse to buy an other Integra as they originally had said the unit would be upgradeable but never did so, so I am done with them.

I am upgrading to Classé

[Hdale85]

Classe and Integra....kind of completely and totally different price brackets and classes.

[wettou]

Yes indeed but the Integra Research was not cheap either $5,250 new, I got a great discount but still!

My point is taht they said it was upgradeable not!!!

[Z Man]

Yes indeed but the Integra Research was not cheap either $5,250 new, I got a great discount but still!

My point is taht they said it was upgradeable not!!!

Very interesting, I also owned an Integra Research pre/pro (RDC-7). I really liked the features and build quality of the unit, but ultimately had to get rid of it as it was not a good match sonically for my Martin Logan speakers. Since then I had been using a Sunfire TGIII, and now I just got a Denon AVP-A1HDCI.

As for the Original Post, I can't comment on the Integra DTC 9.8, but I know that my Denon AVP is in a whole other league than the RDC-7.

[Hdale85]

Where did you get the DTC-9.8 for 5,250 dollars? It retail MSRP is 1,699. Or was this your old Integra unit?

Also the Integra is upgradable through firmware upgrades I do believe. I don't know what other kind of upgradability you would want?

[Z Man]

Where did you get the DTC-9.8 for 5,250 dollars? It retail MSRP is 1,699. Or was this your old Integra unit?

Also the Integra is upgradable through firmware upgrades I do believe. I don't know what other kind of upgradability you would want?

He was definitely talking about the old unit. Integra Research is Parent company Onkyo's Hi End division. Onkyo actually has three divisions, Onkyo of course, Integra, and Integra Research (which is their top of the line). The Integra Research RDC-7.1 is a modular design, which was "supposed" to make it future proof. But that was/is a joke as Integra Research never made any card upgrades available. This really sucked for all those buyers that got one and were promised an upgrade path. They never delivered on that promise.

I owned the RDC-7 which was not modular in design. But this kind of thing is happening to other high end brands as well, including Theta. Their Casablanca III controller was one that for the longest time was lauded as being about as future proof as they come. But now with the advent of HDMI 1.3 and all the new lossless audio codecs, any upgrades that were once the norm for Theta have all ceased. No upgrades are available for the CBIII or have been announced. This in turn has caused many CBIII owners to look for a replacement controller. I really feel bad for them as some only got their units a year ago, and paid between $14k and $17k.

[Hdale85]

I'm not sure how many upgrades would be required on the 9.8 anytime soon in the next 5 or so years. I believe the only things that will be changing much are slight modifications to the HDMI spec which I feel are unimportant.

[wettou]

Where did you get the DTC-9.8 for 5,250 dollars? It retail MSRP is 1,699. Or was this your old Integra unit? Also the Integra is upgradable through firmware upgrades I do believe. I don't know what other kind of upgradability you would want?

Integra Research RDC-7 was $5200 not the Integra DTC-9.8.

http://www.integraresearch.com

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/processors/integra-research-rdc-7/history-of-integra-research

The Integra Research 7.0 was upgraded once to get DTS EX but was never upgraded for HDMi 1.3 or any new codec.

The problem I have is that they said that the Integra Research RDC-7 was going to be fully upgradable: ONKYO basically lied and never delivered on their promises.

I understand that if they had delivered owners of RDC-7 would not buy new boxes from them!

[wettou]

Now I just got a Denon AVP-A1HDCI. I know that my Denon AVP is in a whole other league than the RDC-7.

I am curious can you tell us how the Denon AVP-A1HDCI is in an other league! Features yes but how about sound quality, how well does Audyssey work?

I am waiting to hear the Classé SSP-800 before I upgrade my pre/pro I have been considering the Denon AVP-A1HDCI very seriously just based on specs and paper! No one carries the Denon AVP-A1HDCI around where I live so demos are not possible.

At least when the Classé comes out my Dealer will have it and I can spend as much time as I want in the demo room.

[Z Man]

I am curious can you tell us how the Denon AVP-A1HDCI is in an other league! Features yes but how about sound quality, how well does Audyssey work?

I am waiting to hear the Classé SSP-800 before I upgrade my pre/pro I have been considering the Denon AVP-A1HDCI very seriously just based on specs and paper! No one carries the Denon AVP-A1HDCI around where I live so demos are not possible.

At least when the Classé comes out my Dealer will have it and I can spend as much time as I want in the demo room.

My comments were solely based on my experiences with the RDC-7, I have always held Onkyo/Integra/Integra Reasearch procucts in very high esteem for sound quality. I had an Integra Research RDC-7 in my setup for many months, but during that time I just could not get used to the bright sonic character of the pre/pro. It just was not a very good match for electrostatic and planar magnetic type speakers. With cone type speakers (like your B&W's), the sonic match is perfect! I used to use (many years ago), an Onkyo 919THX with an all Paradigm speaker steup and I absolutely loved the sound. My opinion of the sound I experienced with the RDC-7 with Logans was the complete opposite. Bright etchy sound, especially with movie soundtracks.

The sound with the Denon AVP is more neutral, and sounds really good on my Martin Logans. Right beore I bought the Denon, I was using a Sunfire TGIII (which I still own). The Sunfire was about as perfect a match as one can get for electrostatics, but it was just getting way too long in the tooth with regards to connectivity and decoding capabilities. This is why I went with the Denon. I had used Denon before, I had an AVR 5800 and it sounded great with the Logans I had at that time (Aerius i, Cinema i, Scenario). So I was familiar with the Denon sound.

But other than the whole sound quality thing, the Denon has to be the most fully featured high end pre/pro on the market right now. And there is no denying that in that aspect alone it smokes the RDC-7, Sunfire TGIII, Anthem D2, Theta CBIII, Krell S1000, etc. I mean can you name one high end controller that offers everything the Denon AVP does? This is why I said that the Denon is in a whole other league. The only other pre/pro coming out that will offer "most" of what the Denon AVP has, is the ultra high end Mark Levinson 502. But even that one will only be HDMI 1.1 or 1.2, and will not have internal decoding for TrueHD and DTS-HD MA. And it's going to retail for around $35,000!

So for anyone looking to get a high end pre/pro with all the goodies, the Denon is pretty much in a class all its own. Now sonically I can't say how the Denon AVP will compare to the Classe' SSP-800. I have listened to Classe' gear, an I have to say I was most impressed. I know the SSP-800 is going to sound amazing for both HT and 2 channel, there is no denying that.

But I see where you're coming from. You can actually demo the SSP-800 where as you can't with the Denon. So if you get a Denon AVP, you're pretty much taking a leap of faith, hoping that it will be everything you are wanting. I do know that there are many B&W 802D owners who just got Denon AVP's and they absolutely love the sound.

But in your case, I guess the safest bet is to go with the Classe' SSP-800. I know it's going to be an amzing performer, and one that will no doubt give you many years of enjoyment.

[wettou]

But I see where you're coming from. You can actually demo the SSP-800 where as you can't with the Denon. So if you get a Denon AVP, you're pretty much taking a leap of faith, hoping that it will be everything you are wanting. I do know that there are many B&W 802D owners who just got Denon AVP's and they absolutely love the sound.

Thanks for the feed back.

Cool set up you have, :T It is unfortunate that you sit right against the wall.

I also have enjoyed my Integra Research RDC-7 as well, just disappointed that Onkyo basically mislead it's customers, I will get over it.

I primarily listen to SACD in multichannel and love movies, so I like to sit at about three quarter from the front the room, forming an equilateral triangle with the two front speakers (10 feet side).

The three sources I use all the time is a Sony SCD-XA777ES multichannel SACD/CD player (http://www.stereophile.com/hirezplayers/491/)

a Blu ray players Sony BD 301 soon to be replaced by the Panasonic DMP-BD50 using HDMi 1.3

And an iPod connected with Wadia 170iTransport

http://www.wadia.com/products/170i/170iTransport_home.htm

So my needs are simple!

[Kal Rubinson]

The problem I have is that they said that the Integra Research RDC-7 was going to be fully upgradable: ONKYO basically lied and never delivered on their promises.

I don't know if they lied because they are not the only ones who promised more than they could deliver. Some upgrades are simply not possible because they are incompatible with the mainframe and/or mainbus. See Theta, for example. Even Meridian has yet to step up to HDMI but they have delivered many upgrades in the past, albeit for high prices.

I am not trying to convert you back to Onkyo but the accusation of deceit may not be warranted.

Kal

[wettou]

Kal,

Of course, but then they should not make these claims that is false advertising!!

They should just say that this is the best today or what ever. Any way, I am beyond this now and am looking forward to demo the Classé SSP-800 soon I hope

[Kal Rubinson]

Kal,

Of course, but then they should not make these claims that is false advertising!!

My point is that one cannot predict the future and Onkyo, along with others, could not upgrade for options not predicted at the time of the original design.

They should just say that this is the best today or what ever. Any way, I am beyond this now and am looking forward to demo the Classé SSP-800 soon I hope

You seem to be healthy again.
:T

Kal

[wettou]

Healthy! always this is just stuff! Cool stuff but stuff

[Z Man]

Thanks for the feed back.

Cool set up you have, :T It is unfortunate that you sit right against the wall.

I also have enjoyed my Integra Research RDC-7 as well, just disappointed that Onkyo basically mislead it's customers, I will get over it.

I primarily listen to SACD in multichannel and love movies, so I like to sit at about three quarter from the front the room, forming an equilateral triangle with the two front speakers (10 feet side).

The three sources I use all the time is a Sony SCD-XA777ES multichannel SACD/CD player (http://www.stereophile.com/hirezplayers/491/)

a Blu ray players Sony BD 301 soon to be replaced by the Panasonic DMP-BD50 using HDMi 1.3

And an iPod connected with Wadia 170iTransport

http://www.wadia.com/products/170i/170iTransport_home.htm

So my needs are simple!

Thank you for the compliment on my setup. I saw yours as well and I think it kicks ass! :T Love it that you have the 3 fronts matched. Very cool. Actually the theater seating is away from the back wall about 3 1/2 feet, but the photo makes it look like it's almost right up against the wall.

Interesting that you have a Sony S301 Blu-ray player, as I have the identical S300. I really like it as it delivers a gorgeous high def picture. Right now I am mainly using a Denon 2500 Blu-ray transport, but I still have my trusty S300 as a back up.

I noticed that you have a Wadia 170i Transport. How do you like it? What do you think of the sound quality?

[wettou]

Z Man

You are welcome, it works well I am waiting to demo the Classé SSP-800 that should be the last upgrade for a while. How do you like the Denon, I have been looking at the 3000BDCI

[Z Man]

Z Man

You are welcome, it works well I am waiting to demo the Classé SSP-800 that should be the last upgrade for a while. How do you like the Denon, I have been looking at the 3000BDCI

I love my Denon 2500 Blu-ray transport. It has worked flawlessly since day one. Its build quality is excellent and the images and sound from Blu-ray movies is awesome! Since it is only a transport and has only a lone HDMI output on its rear panel, connection is super simple, but the sound I get decoded by the Denon AVP preamp is phenomenal! I am very happy with the 2500.

Now if I didn't have a preamp with all the newest audio decoding, I would have definitely gone with the Denon 3800. From what I've read, it's one hell of a fine Blu-ray player. And if one isn't looking for a player that offers BD-Live capability, and has the money to get the 3800, it is without a doubt the current king of BD players.

BTW I'm still curious as to what you think of the Wadia Transport for your iPod. Now that I am able to stream flac, WMA, and WAV from my PC to my Denon AVP, I have no need for the Wadia, but I'm just curious as to how well it works. And how it sounds.


Seth

[wettou]

BTW I'm still curious as to what you think of the Wadia Transport for your iPod. Now that I am able to stream flac, WMA, and WAV from my PC to my Denon AVP, I have no need for the Wadia, but I'm just curious as to how well it works. And how it sounds. Seth

Seth

It works very well and makes a great improvement to the ipod I use apple lossless.

I was able to get a prerelease for evaluation, it should start shipping in May!

"So This is a Pretty Unique Little Product Indeed!
The Wadia 170 dock is the first iPod dock that gives you the ability
to take the digital data stream from your iPod and feed it into your DAC
of choice without modifying your iPod. This allows you to retain all
the functionality of your iPod so that you can use it with headphones,
plug it in to your car, etc. but when you bring it home get true audio-
phile sound in your main system.

The only caveat to this is that you have to have a current generation iPod to take advantage of this functionality. It will also work with the new iPod Touch, iPhone and all three generations of iPod Nano. If you have less than a current iPod, the 170 will not give you a digital datastream."

[Z Man]

Thank you.

It sounds like an excellent product and one that actually works the way it's supposed to. And the price it's being sold for is reasonable, making it that much more attractive. Very cool.

[wettou]

Thank you. It sounds like an excellent product and one that actually works the way it's supposed to. And the price it's being sold for is reasonable, making it that much more attractive. Very cool.

You are welcome Apple could potentially start selling it in its stores!

[qm456]

Hello I Purchased The Integra-9.8 I Have It Hooked Up To My Pioneer Pdp-5080 And Play Station 3 Iam Using Hdmi Cables. Hook Was Simple But Iam Getting A No Signal Massage What Iam I Doing Wrong Please Help

[wettou]

Hello I Purchased The Integra-9.8 I Have It Hooked Up To My Pioneer Pdp-5080 And Play Station 3 Iam Using Hdmi Cables. Hook Was Simple But Iam Getting A No Signal Massage What Iam I Doing Wrong Please Help

Check that you have selected the right input on the menu for each device. If you did and it doesn't work may you got a lemon?

[qm456]

I Solved The Problem I Had To Make Additional Connection Form The Pioneer To The Play Station For The Video I Just Don't Understand Why The Hdmi Cable Cant Pickup Video And Audio But This Is The Only Way I Can Which A Bluray Disc

[wettou]

I Solved The Problem I Had To Make Additional Connection Form The Pioneer To The Play Station For The Video I Just Don't Understand Why The Hdmi Cable Cant Pickup Video And Audio But This Is The Only Way I Can Which A Bluray Disc

Very bizarre? You connections should go as follows:

Source: PS3 -> HDMi 1.3 -> AV Receiver with HDMi 1.3 -> Pioneer HDMi 1.3

And you should have high resolution Audio DTS Master Audio and Dolby Digital HD and 1080p 24fps Video

[John Holmes]

Then something imo is wrong. HDMI will support both audio and video. Maybe you need to enable it in the PS3 or maybe the 9.8 needs to be configured as such. But, either way, you should get picture and sound from the one HDMI connection.

[comeup]

dumped my B&K Ref 50 for the newly DTC 9.8 with HDMI sounds great digitally but lousy with rca outs. Very easy to use (Love It) B&K sounds better via rca outputs. Thinking of buying the Oppo dv980 to take advantage of hdmi using multi-channel for sacd/dvd audio........I think the DTC 9.8 is a great deal for anyone thinking of getting a new pre. If any of u do be sure to run the dsp update and the firmware 1.07/1.08 there are a few bugs that need to be fixed.

[wettou]

**WARNING** DTS Masters bitstreamed can damage speakers!!

**WARNING** DTS Masters bitstreamed can damage speakers!! Is this for real!!!

**WARNING** DTS Masters bitstreamed to Yamaha, Onkyo or Integra can damage speakers!!
***WARNING***13APR08
Anyone using a Yamaha or Onkyo/Integra receiver or pre/pro should use extreme caution when bitstreaming DTS MA.

Users are reporting a loud "POP" that is described as a loud firework or gunshot when using one of the above listed receivers AND bitstreaming DTS MA. This can damage your equipment!!!
The theory is certain receivers have a faulty DTS decoder chip and when coupled with certain DTS MA tracks, will cause this issue.

Ronny Katz, the Sr. Manager of Professional Audio at DTS, has already responded to this thread and has stated the issue is not in the DTS track or stream, and to seek assistance from your specific AVR manufacturer. Mr. Katz will not comment any further on the issue.

It is unknown at this time if all or just some models are affected.
Certain members have been in contact with Yamaha and Onkyo, though nothing official yet, it does look promising.
It is unknown at this time if the receivers can be fixed via a firmware or may need a more involved matter like shipping your unit in for a hardware change.

[comeup]

**WARNING** DTS Masters bitstreamed can damage speakers!! Is this for real!!!

**WARNING** DTS Masters bitstreamed to Yamaha, Onkyo or Integra can damage speakers!!
***WARNING***13APR08
Anyone using a Yamaha or Onkyo/Integra receiver or pre/pro should use extreme caution when bitstreaming DTS MA.

Users are reporting a loud "POP" that is described as a loud firework or gunshot when using one of the above listed receivers AND bitstreaming DTS MA. This can damage your equipment!!!
The theory is certain receivers have a faulty DTS decoder chip and when coupled with certain DTS MA tracks, will cause this issue.

Ronny Katz, the Sr. Manager of Professional Audio at DTS, has already responded to this thread and has stated the issue is not in the DTS track or stream, and to seek assistance from your specific AVR manufacturer. Mr. Katz will not comment any further on the issue.

It is unknown at this time if all or just some models are affected.
Certain members have been in contact with Yamaha and Onkyo, though nothing official yet, it does look promising.
It is unknown at this time if the receivers can be fixed via a firmware or may need a more involved matter like shipping your unit in for a hardware change.

There is a DSP update that takes care of the problem very easy to do. Call Integra and they will send it to U or go to AVS FORM and get it from DTS BOMB THREAD it works flawlessly. Not to mention there is a Firmware update that Integra recommends that U send your unit in or U can also get this firmware update at AVS. The DSP update is for the DTS BOMB/The firmware update is for lost of audio for a second or two when changing inputs or changing channels( EXAMPLE changing the channel to HBO then having picture without sound for a second or two.)

[wettou]

There is a DSP update that takes care of the problem very easy to do. Call Integra and they will send it to U or go to AVS FORM and get it from DTS BOMB THREAD it works flawlessly. Not to mention there is a Firmware update that Integra recommends that U send your unit in or U can also get this firmware update at AVS. The DSP update is for the DTS BOMB/The firmware update is for lost of audio for a second or two when changing inputs or changing channels( EXAMPLE changing the channel to HBO then having picture without sound for a second or two.)

Thank you, do you have the link!

[comeup]

check here and read directions carefully run the DSP first, on the firmware update I advise to just run the 1.07 not the 1.08 unless you have the Audyssey Pro. Some people are having problems loading 1.08. 1.07 has everything you need including the basic Audyssey..........good luck

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1016297

[Dmantis]

dumped my B&K Ref 50 for the newly DTC 9.8 with HDMI sounds great digitally but lousy with rca outs. Very easy to use (Love It) B&K sounds better via rca outputs. Thinking of buying the Oppo dv980 to take advantage of hdmi using multi-channel for sacd/dvd audio........I think the DTC 9.8 is a great deal for anyone thinking of getting a new pre. If any of u do be sure to run the dsp update and the firmware 1.07/1.08 there are a few bugs that need to be fixed.

Can you explain what you mean here? I assume trying to listen to a cd sounds lousy compared to the b&k preamp? It would mean using the cd players DAC's and not the Integra's. If this is so then why not run CD Digital to the preamp? Does that sound any better compared to the B&K?

Is it SACD? Again the DAC is in the player not the Integra so I'm alittle confused on the sound quality thing.

I know the new Audio HD sounds awesome and doesn't compare to dvd but compared to the B&K running dvd , does it sound as good?

I owned B&k and currently own Rotel pre and have been looking for B&K to uprade there preamp. The Integra looks great on paper but I have not listened to it.

[comeup]

Can you explain what you mean here? I assume trying to listen to a cd sounds lousy compared to the b&k preamp? It would mean using the cd players DAC's and not the Integra's. If this is so then why not run CD Digital to the preamp? Does that sound any better compared to the B&K?

Is it SACD? Again the DAC is in the player not the Integra so I'm alittle confused on the sound quality thing.

I know the new Audio HD sounds awesome and doesn't compare to dvd but compared to the B&K running dvd , does it sound as good?

I owned B&k and currently own Rotel pre and have been looking for B&K to uprade there preamp. The Integra looks great on paper but I have not listened to it.

Dmantis,
Nothing to be confused about this unit just doesn't sound good using the RCA inputs I know your using the dacs in the player when using the rca inputs of the integra, but it must be more to it than just the dacs because I'm not the only one that has noticed it I even read an article where they said the same thing. At avsform on the Integra 9.8 thread others have said the same thing. I have noticed with my Denon 3910 using multichannel sacd/dvd audio it sounded lousy using the Integra. I then read on another forum that with the 3910 you could run dvd audio through the hdmi and wow did it sound good big difference, but for some reason it won't run the sacd through the hdmi. For this reason that's why alot of folks are buying the Oppo dv980 it can run dvd audio/sacd through the hdmi with the 9.8 and from what I have read it sounds awesome. The Integra is a awesome digital unit I like it much more than my B&K although the B&K is still dam good. I think a lot of what I like about the 9.8 is the Audyssey which is second to none its fantastic hopefully the new B&K will have it, it does amazing things.

Dmantis,
There is a huge thread on the DTC 9.8 at avs and on Audyssey check it out.

[comeup]

. If this is so then why not run CD Digital to the preamp? Does that sound any better compared to the B&K?


I know the new Audio HD sounds awesome and doesn't compare to dvd but compared to the B&K running dvd , does it sound as good?

.

I owned B&k and currently own Rotel pre and have been looking for B&K to uprade there preamp. The Integra looks great on paper but I have not listened to it.

I run everything through the HDMI and yes I think it sounds better digitally.

I think it does because of the audyssey

I recommend that u take a listen before buying the B&K you can save a couple of Gsss

[Kal Rubinson]

Dmantis,
Nothing to be confused about this unit just doesn't sound good using the RCA outs I know your using the dacs in the player when using the rca outs, but it must be more to it than just the dacs because I'm not the only one that has noticed it I even read an article where they said the same thing.

You are confusing things a bit. The problem is not with the RCA outs of the player but with the RCA inputs of the Integra.

At avsform on the Integra 9.8 thread others have said the same thing. I have noticed with my Denon 3910 using multichannel sacd/dvd audio it sounded lousy using the Integra. I then read on another forum that with the 3910 you could run dvd audio through the hdmi and wow did it sound good big difference, but for some reason it won't run the sacd through the hdmi.

That's because the 3910 (I have one) has an early generation of HDMI, v1.1, I believe, which cannot handle SACD.

For this reason that's why alot of folks are buying the Oppo dv980 it can run dvd audio/sacd through the hdmi with the 9.8 and from what I have read it sounds awesome.

The 983 will also output from SACDs but after first converting it to PCM. In addition, the Pioneer DV-58AV and DV-48AV will output DSD and PCM from SACDs.

Kal

[comeup]

You are confusing things a bit. The problem is not with the RCA outs of the player but with the RCA inputs of the Integra.

Kal

Your right its the inputs I can be dyslexic at times that's what I meant all along thanks Kal I went back and edited it