B&W 802D & Halo A51

[gunny]

Have been thinking I possibly could use more power to enhance low-level listening for both music and cinema. Intrigued by the class D amps from Cary, Rotel, Rowland, etc. Love the Halo in general, just wondering if at least the 802's could be better with one of these 500-600 watt newbies, if not also the HTM-2D.

Thanks, I'd love your opinions.

Ron

[sikoniko]

Kal seems to like the Bel Canto's.

[gunny]

Have noticed the Bel Cantos too. I'm curious about the wide disparity in prices from the various companies, given they appear (on the surface anyway) to be more-or-less cloned from the B&O ICE technology. Can there be that much difference between a $2500 Rotel and an $8000 Rowland dual monoblock?

Thanks, Sikoniko. I assume by "Kal" you mean the guy that does reviews for the magazine (Stereophile, is it?) I'll try to find his work and read it over.

Ron

[kurtholz]

I can second the Bel Canto, i honestly can say it rivals my Krell showcase i used to use for my B&W 802D's,

I still have it sitting around unused, keep thinking i will put an all Bel Canto system together as a second system, i am very impressed with there products

good luck

Kurt

[nbourbaki]

Have noticed the Bel Cantos too. I'm curious about the wide disparity in prices from the various companies, given they appear (on the surface anyway) to be more-or-less cloned from the B&O ICE technology. Can there be that much difference between a $2500 Rotel and an $8000 Rowland dual monoblock?

Thanks, Sikoniko. I assume by "Kal" you mean the guy that does reviews for the magazine (Stereophile, is it?) I'll try to find his work and read it over.

Ron

I've wondered the same thing. From what I've read, the Bel Cantos go beyond the standard modules by adding vibration control on the modules and adds balanced inputs in addition to the single ended input on the Rotels.

BTW I demo'd the Rotel digital amps on B&W 803Ds and wasn't impressed. The highs sounded funny.

[Peter Nielsen]

I've wondered the same thing. From what I've read, the Bel Cantos go beyond the standard modules by adding vibration control on the modules and adds balanced inputs in addition to the single ended input on the Rotels.

Balanced inputs is more or less part of the design. Try PS Audio for another option. They don't have monoblocks, but their ICE power stereo amps seem to be very well designed. $3,995 for the 2x500W amp with single ended and balanced. I think this one compares well with a pair of Bel Canto One Refs. They also have the $995 Trio 2x100W ICE amp, which might be a good place to start if you want to evaluate the quality of the ICE amps... You get a 30 day in home trial if you order on-line...

To answer your question: It's mostly about packaging. You can get a pair of 500W ICE amps for something like ~$1000/each from Bertram Audio if you order directly from a small Danish company...

Check out this thread for a ton of info: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=594707

Another option (which is even better than just more brute power) is to go with active bi-amping... However, this will be more complicated as you'll need to modify the crossovers built into your 802's...

FYI: The great thing about the Class D-amps is NO HEAT! If heat is no issue, then a pair of JC1's will sound way better than a pair of Bel Cantos... However, if you're living in a warmer climate and already notice the heat problem of the A51, then the D-class amps will be welcome.

The A51 is limited by design. An A21 will sound noticably better, and a JC1 is of course the ultimate amp! The side step to digital is for those people (like me) that can't cope with the amount of heat that a traditional amp like the JC1 generates...


Peter

[gunny]

A51 can get hot. Also, twice I have driven Pink Floyd Echoes album loud enough that both amp channels shut down (at about -1 or 0 setting on the Halo C2). I currently have the A-51 in an opened-front entertainment center with lots of side and top space, but at that level on those occasions, it got way too hot to touch.

So yes, I too would like to avoid the heat problem, as well as having to design separate air conditioning or fan solutions for the equipment room down the road in the house I plan to build.

Back on the ICEpower subject, a recent web search has found that B. Huskins lists Cary Audio on his website as one of his product lines. I know he has posted here in the past, and wonder if any here recalls an opinion expressed from him on the Cary A306. Or, if he should wander onto this thread by chance, maybe chime in?

[Chris D]

gunny, you can call him direct and ask. Heck, I see you're in DFW, so it's a local call!

[Peter Nielsen]

Back on the ICEpower subject, a recent web search has found that B. Huskins lists Cary Audio on his website as one of his product lines. I know he has posted here in the past, and wonder if any here recalls an opinion expressed from him on the Cary A306. Or, if he should wander onto this thread by chance, maybe chime in?

Brent can also give you a good deal on PS Audio... The GCA-MC is very nice since you can fit it with the combination of modules you like (up to 7 channels in one box). For instace, you could use 500W modules for the fronts and center and 250W modules for the other channels...Maybe 250W modules for the surrounds and 100W modules for the rears... Or you could just fit it with seven 500W modules (GCA-MC-500-7 $9995 MSRP).

Peter

[mitch57]

A51 can get hot. Also, twice I have driven Pink Floyd Echoes album loud enough that both amp channels shut down (at about -1 or 0 setting on the Halo C2). I currently have the A-51 in an opened-front entertainment center with lots of side and top space, but at that level on those occasions, it got way too hot to touch.

Interesting. I have driven my A51 from 0 to +5 on several occasions and have never sent it into overload. I'm currently driving it with a Denon 3805 and always listen to multi-channel DVD-Audio and SACD titles.

From your profile it looks as though you are driving B & W 804s. They are 8 ohm and fairly efficient @ 90 dB so I wouldn't think it would send the A51 into protection mode. My speakers are also rated at 8 ohm and are spec'd at 92 dB efficiency. I've never had my A51 shut down and it's enclosed in a solid oak cabinet with only an inch or two on each side. It does have several inches of open space on top and it's wide open in back.

Is your rack open in the back? If not maybe that's the problem. even with the front being open you might still have a lot of trapped hot air if it has no place to escape to.

[nbourbaki]

Back on the ICEpower subject, a recent web search has found that B. Huskins lists Cary Audio on his website as one of his product lines. I know he has posted here in the past, and wonder if any here recalls an opinion expressed from him on the Cary A306. Or, if he should wander onto this thread by chance, maybe chime in?

I haven't heard the Cary A306 but The Absolute Sound didn't care for the amp.

"I have the greatest respect and admiration for Cary's SET amplifiers, their linear solid state designs (the Cinema Series is outstanding), and the company's terrific CD 306 CD/SACD player. Unfortunately, that design experise didn't translate into the Class D world, at least as realized in the A 306."

Wayne Garcia, "I'm not sure what the folks at Cary had in mind when they released this model, but it surely won't do the company's reputation any good"

[gunny]

From your profile it looks as though you are driving B & W 804s.

Sorry Mitch, looks like I need to update the profile. Traded the 804's in last year for 802D's.

You may be right about the rear of the cabinet. Thankfully, mine is only a temporary set-up until the new house is built.

Ron