B&W 804s - Rookie Questions!

[RacerChris]

BREAK-IN - Just got a pair of used N804s that were not played much. Not sure just how many hours are on these babies, so was wondering if "those in the know" can give me their opinion on length and affect of the break-in period? :roll:

SILVER THINGY - On the back at the top is a silver disk which looks like I can screw something off. Is this simply a speaker hanging lug? :roll:

TEST CERTIFICATE - My manual came with a Test Certificate specific to my Nautli (Serial #825 & 826). Both look the same, both do not coincide very well with the "Laboratory Standard". :M What is the Laboratory Standard and what is this test for?

Thanks! :T

[Fife]

Just keep playing them until they continually sound better. :W

Wait till they break in (200+ hrs?) and then consider the granite stands from Jlee or Sound Anchors. They should be spiked.

[jlee]

1. I found changes at approximately 25 hours, 50 hours and 100 hours. Didn't seem to change past 100 hours, so my personal experience is about 100 hours for full break in. Bass tightens and quickens up, initial tweeter brightness goes away.
2. Do NOT hang your speaker from that silver thingy... that is used to tension the midrange driver and is set from the factory.
3. Not sure on this. I don't think mine came with this certificate.

[Mark_C.]

I'm not familiar with "laboratory standard'' either, unless these were built so early in the production that they were randomly pulled for testing against spec.
I'm not a golden ear. I didn't notice any changes from hour 0 of purchasing my 804s. They sounded sweet right out of the box.

[RacerChris]

[QUOTE=jlee]
2. Do NOT hang your speaker from that silver thingy... that is used to tension the midrange driver and is set from the factory.
QUOTE]


Yeah, thought that was the case. But did not find anything in the manual about this and the package included a graphic showing how to unscrew it! Using B&W typical international language graphics may have added to the confusion of the purpose of the graphic! Oh well, will not touch!!! :Z

[BlazeMaster]

hey, RacerChris...how would you describe the sound of 805s vs 804 in stereo mode? Is 805 almost identical to the 805s except with more bass? I loved the way 805s sounded at my San Francisco Stereo store. I see that you live in Fremont, wondering where and how much u paid for yours.

[hired goon]

how would you describe the sound of 805s vs 804 in stereo mode? Is 80[4] almost identical to the 805s except with more bass? I loved the way 805s sounded at my San Francisco Stereo store.

I was listening to 804 vs 805 yesterday. While the 804 has more bass (as expected with the extra drivers and larger cabinet), my opinion is that the 805s had better imaging and soundstage. The 805s sometimes seem to "disappear", but I did not experience that with the 804s.

My comparison was not very long, however, but those were my initial impressions.

-- Geoff

[jlee]

Being a smaller speaker, the 805 is indeed a little easier to position and make disappear... however, having demoed both in my home and at a local hifi store, I will say that the 804 has a far superior midrange with the FST driver (the 805 has midbass colored voices due to the cabinet... try this test... tap on the bass driver of the 805 and then on the 804... listen to how the 805 makes a hollow echo noise... that is the coloration you will hear on almost all vocals and midrange frequencies). The 804 takes more effort to position correctly, but when setup properly, will disappear and sound much better than the 805 in my opinion.

[Mark_C.]

I was listening to 804 vs 805 yesterday. While the 804 has more bass (as expected with the extra drivers and larger cabinet), my opinion is that the 805s had better imaging and soundstage. The 805s sometimes seem to "disappear", but I did not experience that with the 804s.
-- Geoff

Wow! Amazing. I have both the 805s and the 804s (805s in HT and 804s in a separate two-channel) and I would say it's completely the opposite. My 804s, powered by a Classe integrated amp, truly disappear. Vocals are dead-on center and there is a real depth to the music. With the 805s, run through Rotel 1066 pre/pro and 1075 amp, the soundfield is flatter and the vocals aren't as well-placed. The 805 is a tremendous speaker, but it can't compete with the FST midrange in the rest of the Nautilus line.

[sikoniko]

I was listening to 804 vs 805 yesterday. While the 804 has more bass (as expected with the extra drivers and larger cabinet), my opinion is that the 805s had better imaging and soundstage. The 805s sometimes seem to "disappear", but I did not experience that with the 804s.

My comparison was not very long, however, but those were my initial impressions.

-- Geoff

The qualities you say the 804 is lacking are characteristics I saw in my 804's until they broke in. Perhaps the 805's you heard get more use and are further along at breaking in?

[RacerChris]

hey, RacerChris...how would you describe the sound of 805s vs 804 in stereo mode? Is 805 almost identical to the 805s except with more bass? I loved the way 805s sounded at my San Francisco Stereo store. I see that you live in Fremont, wondering where and how much u paid for yours.

Blazemaster,

I bought the 805s w/stands and Audioquest Granite cables off of AudioGon about three weeks ago. Paid $1700, then sold the cables for $200. Bought the 804s for $2000 last week. The 805s are now for sale on EBAY.

The 804s offer alot more than the 805s. Not only in the lower spectrum, but in other ways too. I always have a hard time describing my opinions with sound. However, the difference is pronounced. I believe this may be due to the fact that the 805s woofe trying to do too much. The additional of a midrange driver to the 804s means our engineer friends at B&W have more freedom in focusing the accuracy of each spectrum to the driver. There is a reason why the FST driver is employed in all Nautli above the 805.

Then again, the 805s are 2-way bookshelf speakers and given that limitation, it is hard to believe there is much better available at that price point.

The main reason for moving up to the 804s for me was that I got a great deal and the 805s were not able to put out the volume that I know I will want at times. The improved sound and presentation was a bonus! And a big one. Make no mistake about it, the 804 is a better speaker in every way than the 805s. If you can afford it or can get a great price on them, then you will be that much closer to Nirvana! If you are focused on the 805s, then check my auction out...

[hired goon]

Wow! Amazing. I have both the 805s and the 804s (805s in HT and 804s in a separate two-channel) and I would say it's completely the opposite. My 804s, powered by a Classe integrated amp, truly disappear. Vocals are dead-on center and there is a real depth to the music. With the 805s, run through Rotel 1066 pre/pro and 1075 amp, the soundfield is flatter and the vocals aren't as well-placed. The 805 is a tremendous speaker, but it can't compete with the FST midrange in the rest of the Nautilus line.

I took the 805s home for the weekend, and tried them out on my Rotel 1068/1075. The imaging and soundstage were great, in my opinion. Vocals were dead centre, and I could walk around the room and still not hear where the speakers were located. I appreciate that the 805s deserve better amplification than a 1075, but it still sounded sweet enough to me.

When I took the 805s back to the dealer, I tried out a few of the same test CDs on the 804s. As I said, I only had about 10mins to try out the 804s, but I never quite got that same image as I did with the 805s. Possibly the 804s were not run-in (but I doubt that), and maybe I had the positioning wrong. The 804s were driven by an Electrocompaniet amp, which is a step above the 1068/1075 in my opinion. But I've always found that bookshelves (such as the 805s) tend to have just that little extra in imaging and soundstage.

However, I'll go back and give the 804s another audition soon. I was thinking of 4 x 805 + HTM2, but maybe I should consider 804 + HTM1 + 805 (and better amps).

the 805 has midbass colored voices due to the cabinet... try this test... tap on the bass driver of the 805 and then on the 804... listen to how the 805 makes a hollow echo noise... that is the coloration you will hear on almost all vocals and midrange frequencies

I asked about the neutrality of the 805 in a recent thread. Interesting to hear about this colouration, as I was testing the 805 against a speaker that (supposedly) has a very flat frequency response. I thought the latter speaker sounded bright or harsh against the 805s, but I assume that this may be because the 805 modifies the mid-range.

-- Geoff

[sikoniko]

if you go with 805's, you dont need the htm1. the htm2 is a perfect match.

[jlee]

804 + HTM1 would be great up front, but if you do that, I would suggest getting SCM1 for the rear as they are a better match than the 805 (see my other posts on this topic). If you go 805, then HTM2 and 805 rear would be good.

Electrocompaniet amp? I've never heard of this amp before. I would suggest comparing by listening with the same amps, same cables, etc.... too many variables (different room, diff. amp, diff. cables, diff. source, etc.) can give false impressions. I do all my testing only with the same everything else with the 2 items being compared the only thing to change.

>sounded bright or harsh against the 805s, but I assume that this may be because the 805 modifies the mid-range.

If the other speaker sounded bright or harsh, that is more than likely from high frequencies and has nothing to do with the midbass coloration I referred to.

Cheers.