What's the best way to move the 802s once you have the spikes on them!?

[PewterTA]

I just bought a couple maple plinths for under the 802Dis... I'm going to put the spikes on the speakers and then get them up on the plinths.

Now to compensate with spikes and wood (ie not good).... WKHanna is making me machined Aluminum discs with small divots in them for the spike to self center. This will protect the 2" thick Maple from getting marked up and from loosing the benefits of putting them up on there.

Now I know I have to lay the speaker down, put the spikes on and stand it back up. But lifting the speakers, I'm figuring, is going to be a three man job, 2 to lift and one to guide/place the discs.

I'm figuring that I'll use the felt covers they were wrapped in during the whole transpiration process, but I"m thinking that two people lifting the speaker from the base is somewhat back breaking work while trying to properly align the spikes.

Anyone have some good ideas on how best to make the speakers float in mid air while it's all getting done?! I wish I had those moving arms they have during the build process to just move them all around. ha ha!

[mjb]

I lay mine down on a thick blanket, whilst holding the marlan head with one hand, and its rear screw with the other. Yes, they are heavy (expensive) and not easy to handle. Be sure not to knock the tweater. Good luck!

[windshear]

I have a much different method which I use for my 800Di's. Tilt the speaker slightly and slide a set of thick books underneath. It needs to be high enough to be able to get under the base with your hands to loosen the castors. Replace two castors per side and repeat per opposite side of the speaker. It is a pain to do it this way lying on the ground or on your knees. However I don't have any space to lay my 800Di's on their side, plus I would need an extra pair of hands to do it the other way.

[PewterTA]

That's a great suggestion... I can't believe I didn't think of doing something like that as well!!! Great tip!

I think I'm going to pull them out and be able to lay them down to put the spikes on. Now the issue will be picking them up and holding them in the air and coordinating them coming down on the pods correctly that will be up on the plinths. My thinking right now is once the spikes are on the speakers and stood back up. I'm thinking of using moving straps under the bass (between the spikes) with something very soft (blanket like) that when the straps pick the speakers up, it'll allow two people to stand on each side and hold the speaker (like at the marlan head level) steady and keep the speakers suspended while we position and have a 3rd person guide the speaker into position as the two slowly lower. With using the covers that came with the speakers it should protect against damage to the finish.... I think this will work.... still got some time to plan as WKHanna is machining the brass cups for the spikes to sit on and I think I have about a month till those are done. Government work you know.

[Kal Rubinson]

I once designed a hydraulic lift for such things and had a machinist spec it out for me but we never built it. Since I have to move the 800D2s out of the way quite often, I stick to the castors.

[PewterTA]

That's what I'd love to have is like a fork lift/hydraulic lift system..... however I think the lifting straps will be about my only solution... and at $20 is a lot better deal than building my own movable hydraulic lift. ha ha. Once they get moved I probably will hardly move them again... otherwise I'd leave the castors on.

But might as well make them sound as good as possible!

My other thought is with the spikes on, I could use two boards to hold up in the center and move the speakers....make lifting poles out of them like carrying a King's throne through the street, that type of an idea.

[wkhanna]

It is like trying to solve the mystery of the pyramids.......

At least we will have lots of manpower when time comes.

BTW, I have decided on CNC machining the pucks from 3600 Navel Brass.

Hope to have them done by the end of the month.

[PewterTA]

Excellent!!!! I can't wait to hear the change in the sound... if it's like what happened with the 604s... I'll be very happy with the changes!!!

[Freddie40]

Herbie's Audio sells Cone/Spike Decoupling Glider. Put them under the spikes and the speakers will move. Easy to put them under. Pushing the speakers is hard but possible. I would imaging that if you got the giant version it would then be pretty easy

Dave

[PewterTA]

Thanks Dave... but the nice thing about Bill's...they are Government Work. Can't really beat that!!!

[RebelMan]

Dan, why are you trying to elevate the speakers?

[PewterTA]

I have some sound absorbtion feet to put on my 2" thick Maple plinths that will go under my speakers. Then on the plinths will be Bill's Brass pucks which the spikes from the 802s will go into. So we need to lift the speakers to get them onto the plinths and set them into the pucks without marking up the maple plinth (if possible). So we need to lift or "hover" the speaker to get it into place and set it down on the pucks. I'm thinking three people should be able to do it. Two to lift and one to guide/position the pucks, well we can put the pucks in place first, to make sure everything lines up right and doesn't move if accidentally kicked.

I did this with my 604s and was amazed at the imaging, detail, and speed of them when I set the speakers up this way.

[wkhanna]

I believe Rebelman is addressing the fact that the drivers will be elevated relative to the current listening position after the installation.

[PewterTA]

It doesn't really matter, not with the 802Dis. Half the time I sit on the floor and it sounds perfectly amazing. It'll actually put things just a tad bit high once all said and done, which is why I didn't do the 4" maple plinths. I've also thought of adjusting the spikes to tilt them down every so slightly...but who knows.

Really I'll take the slight height difference for the increase in imagining, the tightening of bass, and overall better sound.

[RebelMan]

I believe Rebelman is addressing the fact that the drivers will be elevated relative to the current listening position after the installation.

Correct.

I toyed a little with vertical displacement using a pair of CM5s to see what effects it would have on staging, imaging and focus. Three stand heights ranging from about 24" to 30" to 34" were used, all with spikes. From my listening position, about 12', the 30" stand produced the most desirable results, placing the midpoint between the tweeter and mid/bass driver at about 41" from the ground. When John Atkinson measured the CM5 he predicted that the flattest treble balance would occur with smaller stands, like the 24" I tried, placing the ears above the tweeter. I actually found the CM5, frankly all B&W's, to sound better when the ears fall below the tweeter axis, which in this case was about 2-3 inches. The 34" stand produced the least satisfying results as it softened too much detail leaving a somewhat flat presentation and the loss of focus. The 804D2 now resides where the CM5 once stood, and is about an inch lower, with the spikes installed, but the results so far seem ideal even with the slight loss of some height.

The 800D, that once stood where the 804D2 are now, sat about 4-5" higher with the casters installed. Given the extra height of the 800D I was concerned (at the time) that the soundstage would collapse some with respect to my seated position (which is about a foot closer than it use to be at our other place). It didn't and actually worked surprisingly well. I had plans to install the spikes but unless I was willing to alter my seating arrangement (and I wasn't) the sweet spot would have been put at unnecessary risk. The 802D2 with the spikes attached puts it in the same height category as the 800D which shouldn't pose any problems but I probably would have some reservation boosting the height any further, unless you sit further back than 12'. If you have a wooden floor I can see why you would want to decouple the speaker from the foundation by using a secondary plinth. Otherwise it seems a little concerning that you may be putting yourself and your speakers at more risk than the benefits, if any, will allow.

[PewterTA]

I actually have a cement floor with carpeting on it... Definitely not ideal at all. With the 604s, when I spiked them I didn't know much difference over just sitting on the carpet. I then put them on plinths with just the spikes and found that it dramatically improved almost every aspect of the speaker. Then after a few months (not thinking) the spikes worked their way into the wood and the sound got worse. I then put quarters under the spikes on the plinths and it put everything right back where it was. I would've used the same style plinths I had for them, but I was concerned with the weight of the 802Dis. So that's why I chose to go with 2" plinths. I might not use the rubber cork isolation pads underneath, that will be a wait and see what I think, try for a week without, then with and go from there. The Spikes themselves will not add much height to the speaker as they will mostly be up in the base leaving only another inch. This will place most people's ear level right at/slightly under the center of the midrange driver. Which is funny because I'll tend to kick the feet up and slouch and put myself in that position now. So it should work. It's all an experiment at this point. I sit 11 to 12' away from the speakers as is and the room opens up another 18' feet behind me (room is 30' long).

The biggest thing that really changes the room and makes it... work or at least sound good.... is that I have the bulkhead for the duct work that is about 3' to 4' infront and above the listening position which shrinks the height of the room about ten inches to one foot. For whatever reason it has allowed me to find the best position for the speakers to only be about 8"s from the back wall. Imaging and bass focus perfectly when the speakers are in this position with about 10' between the speakers and with a half decent toe in angle on the speakers. This aims the tweeters slightly left and right of ones ears (I'd say about 3 or 4"s to away from each ear).

Bill can probably best comment on all this as to how well it all works. But so far I have no complaints. What's funny is when I had the 604s I never realized how poorly they fit the room until I got the 802Dis. My 604s sound amazing over at my friends house which is not ideally set up, but they sound a LOT closer to what I get with the 802Dis than they every did in my room... and I tried with them. So the room definitely makes all the difference. Next thing will probably be working on some sound absorption panels for the back wall. I think that will make a nice difference as well.

If things don't work out well... then there will be some VERY nice Maple Plinths going on sale! ha ha.