685's Sideways?

[PM5K]

Right now I have my 685's sideways, IE on their side. I haven't read a lot but I think this is not ideal, just trying to make sure?

I should easily have room to stand them up, just used to my old setup where I could only lie them sideways.

TIA.

[Audiophiliac]

Most, if not, all bookshelf speakers are designed to have the optimal horizontal and vertical dispersion when positioned "vertically" or standing up rather than laying on their sides. I would imagine you would actually hear a difference between the 2 positions from your listening position. Simply try it both ways and make a decision. If you cannot hear a difference, or if one sounds better than the other, there you go.

[stuofsci02]

As a general rule, mid/bass drivers and tweeters should be arrange in a vertical alignment. Horizontal alignment will cause lobinging/filtering issues in the frequencies that overlap between the two drivers.

Also make sure to place them so that the tweeter is at or near ear level.

Cheers

[gene9p]

when laying speakers on their sides..rule of thumb is tweeters facing out and the woofers in towards center..this will provide a very wide soundstage

[mb225]

It's very interesting to see the responses to this question. The first thing that comes to mind is almost all center channel speakers are not vertical.

I would think that as long as you have symmetry on the mains you shouldn't hear a difference? :huh:

[windshear]

It's very interesting to see the responses to this question. The first thing that comes to mind is almost all center channel speakers are not vertical.

I would think that as long as you have symmetry on the mains you shouldn't hear a difference? :huh:

Thats why all multiple driver center channel speakers suffer from lobing.

[stuofsci02]

Thats why all multiple driver center channel speakers suffer from lobing.

Almost all..... Once you go to a vertical arranged mid/tweeter there is virtually no combing/lobing at all...

[Kal Rubinson]

Almost all..... Once you go to a vertical arranged mid/tweeter there is virtually no combing/lobing at all...

There's more to it than that. Whether there is lobing from horizontally displaced drivers depends on the displacement distance and the crossover since it only occurs when the drivers are producing the same frequency range.

[stuofsci02]

There's more to it than that. Whether there is lobing from horizontally displaced drivers depends on the displacement distance and the crossover since it only occurs when the drivers are producing the same frequency range.

Agreed, however, on a typical two-way/three-way speaker there is always overlapping frequencies between drivers.

[Kal Rubinson]

Agreed, however, on a typical two-way/three-way speaker there is always overlapping frequencies between drivers.

Right but if that range of overlap consists of frequencies whose wavelengths exceed twice the driver displacement, there will be no perceived interference or lobbing.

[stuofsci02]

Right but if that range of overlap consists of frequencies whose wavelengths exceed twice the driver displacement, there will be no perceived interference or lobbing.

Indeed... That was why I specifically mentioned only vertical arrangement of mid/tweeter. Such as on B&W 800 series center channels.

Without going to concentric drivers, I don't see how the mid/tweeter could be placed close enough together to avoid lobing on the overlapping frequencies. Even if you could have the drivers just 5" apart you would still be looking at lobing starting at ~1500 hz. The overlap frequency for the mid/tweeter is well above that..

[madmac]

In my opinion, I believe that Center channel speakers are crossed over and tuned to be played horizontally. Bookshelf speakers on the other hand are designed tuned and crossed over to be played vertically with tweeters at ear level . Just my 2 cents.

[gene9p]

book shelves can be placed on their sides...

[mb225]

I don't understand? How can turning a bookshelf speaker 90 degrees have an impact on the sound? All the replies talk about crossover frequency, frequency overlap between the drivers, and distance between mid/tweeter. Turning a bookshelf speaker on it's side does not change any of those variables??

I must be missing something? Or I just don't understand.

[Kal Rubinson]

In my opinion, I believe that Center channel speakers are crossed over and tuned to be played horizontally. Bookshelf speakers on the other hand are designed tuned and crossed over to be played vertically with tweeters at ear level . Just my 2 cents.

One would hope and expect so but, unfortunately, inexpensive and mid-market center channel speakers rarely are properly designed. Whether it makes an audible difference to you is another matter and one that you need to test for yourself.

book shelves can be placed on their sides...

Right. Nothing will fall out. OTOH, the Venetian Blind effect on the horizontal radiation pattern is annoying for some people who sit off-axis.

I don't understand? How can turning a bookshelf speaker 90 degrees have an impact on the sound? All the replies talk about crossover frequency, frequency overlap between the drivers, and distance between mid/tweeter. Turning a bookshelf speaker on it's side does not change any of those variables??

I must be missing something? Or I just don't understand.

Typical (non-center) speakers are usually designed with a vertical driver array to maximize a smooth horizontal radiation pattern and, since most heads are at about the same height, vertical irregularity can be accepted if the speaker is set at or aimed to that height. Horizontal arrays (like most center channel speakers (or a bookshelf/tower on its side), will have that irregular dispersion in the horizontal plane where you do not want it and good off-axis dispersion in the vertical plane where you do not need it.

[stuofsci02]

In my opinion, I believe that Center channel speakers are crossed over and tuned to be played horizontally. Bookshelf speakers on the other hand are designed tuned and crossed over to be played vertically with tweeters at ear level . Just my 2 cents.

There are some that are better and some that are worse, but horizontal driver arrangement such as MTM will suffer. It is just physics...

For those who want a good read, or are still having trouble understanding why a speaker on its side is different have a look at this..

http://www.audioholics.com/education...peaker-designs

[PM5K]

Well the good news is that it wasn't hard to sit them upright. In my previous bookshelves I could only sit them sideways but now they are standing straight up.

Thanks again.

[Z3Sooner]

Take a look at the published specs for the 685 and you'll see that the horizontal dispersion (i.e. off axis frequency response) is within +/- 2db out to 60 degrees (30 degrees off axis either way). On the other hand, the vertical dispersion is within that range only to 10 degrees.

So, as soon as you lay the speaker on its side you can only be 5 degrees or so off axis before the frequency response starts to suffer.

Next, take a look at the specs for the HTM61 and 62. They are designed to lay on their side, yet the specs say their HORIZONTAL dispersion (vertical dispersion when stood up on end) is only about 20 degrees. In other words, even the MTM center channels suffer from dispersion issues along the driver axis.

The goal of the MTM or MTW center channels is to get the tweeter & woofers as close to the TV as possible. However, I've tried using a vertical 685 as a center channel with both 683s and 684s and found it works really well. You can actually get the tweeter even closer to the TV this way which makes sense since most directional cues come from the higher frequencies. You also get much better off axis frequency response from the 685 then either HTM61 or 62. It's much better for "living room" type HT setups where people tend to be more spread out.

On top of that, the 685 has better specs than the HTM62 in almost every respect and costs $100 less.

[Dmantis]

I have Installed many bookshelf speakers on their sides with great results.
What I do when I have to do such a thing , I don't actually like doing it as I feel they sound better standing upright , I measure the distance from the listening area to the speaker location and the distance between the speakers. As a rule in general I use 3/4 to equal distance. When the speakers are further apart then the listen distance , I put the tweeters on the outside. When it's where I want it , they go inside. I have found most speakers IMO sound better this way. It's always a good idea to try both ways. I do every time and my rule usually ends up being the best.

I will go on record stating I'm not a fan of this and I usually find the speakers to sound better standing upright. They may not actually always sound better per say but they do to me and thats enough for me to try and convince said person I'm Installing them for to at least give it a try unless space is a factor. Some people just like them on their sides regardless.