Grill on or off?

[Rod#S]

As a new member of the B&W family I want to get the most out of my new HTM2Di and looking through the various threads here on the forum I see a lot of people have removed the mesh grill from their speakers and I am curious if this is more of a personal preference for appearance or is this being done for improved sound quality? Have I been sacrificing sound quality all these years in leaving the grills on?

Thanks,

Rod

[htsteve]

Rod#S,

For me, removing the grills was an appearance thing. Until I got the 802D's.
The phase plug in the mid-range driver was plastic and had a hole in the front to hold the cover in place. I took that off, replaced the plastic plug with the aluminum(?) plug that came with it. Result was a bit better detail and slightly wider soundstage. So for 802D's, it's a performance issue.



Hope this helps.

[Hammie]

My grills are off for cosmetic reasons. Not sure if there is any performance issues with the grills on or not.

[madmac]

I had a thread awhile back about this very issue! . I think some speakers will sound better with them on and some without. You have to try and subjectively listen to your speakers in both setups and decide for yourself which option sounds best. Mine sound smoother and better with the grills on. I believe they were designed and meant to be played that way.

[emig5m]

I think some take them off so they look more flashy for pictures. Sometimes I leave my mains off, but always seem to leave the center on as I find that big HTM3S distracting (especially the bright yellow kevlar midrange) when watching movies/TV/gaming. Kinda depends on mood too... Sometimes I'll leave my grills off for months and will prefer the more flashy look of the speakers with the drivers exposed, and then other times I prefer the speakers to disappear more visually.





As for sound/performance issues with grills on/off, I think that's speaker dependent. I think the 600 series has a minor noticeable effect with the grills on. Their grills have A LOT of plastic around the tweeters. My 683's just seemed a little more airy with the grills off. Their 800 series brother the 804S, not so much. Now you have the tweeter completely outside the box anyway. So in my opinion, if you have the 800 series with the out of the box tweeter, leave the grills on if you prefer the look visually. If you have 600 series and do critical 2-channel listening, maybe leave the grills off...

[Rod#S]

Thanks everyone for responding. I'll experiment some to see if I hear any difference and if not I'll just continue with the grill on.

[mrciave]

Rod#S,

For me, removing the grills was an appearance thing. Until I got the 802D's.
The phase plug in the mid-range driver was plastic and had a hole in the front to hold the cover in place. I took that off, replaced the plastic plug with the aluminum(?) plug that came with it. Result was a bit better detail and slightly wider soundstage. So for 802D's, it's a performance issue.



Hope this helps.

Same for me. The difference was made by the aluminium phase plug instead of plastic. The grill did not matter.

I remember a thread somewhere where some B&W guy explained the metal phase plug helps the magnetic field get a better shape, thus the midrange works better.

As for the woofers, I experimented but could not feel any difference, so my woofer grilles are on.

Tweeter grilles, ALWAYS ON, those small little diamonds are too fragile to leave exposed.

Hope it helps.

[style]

hi,

I agree with mrciave! :T

tweeter with the grills ( & midrange too!!! - FST)

for the woofer is only a "...looks good in a pictures for the forum..." but for the perfomance I dont a improve .......


My grills are always ON, only like a lot of fans for a pictures OFF...

style

[azazel]

I understood the phase plug is designed to stop a convergence at the center of the driver. I have aluminium phase plugs as the plastic ones with a hole in the middle look rubbish. I usually leave the covers off but if some kids are coming round, I fit them with a blob of blutack in the center of the grill, with the pin removed. I never take the tweeter grills off as Ive had enough of tweeter replacements! I read that B&W designed the out put to be correct with tweeter grills on.

[Rod#S]

When you guys are referring to the different phase plug materials, what exactly is that, is it something only on the 802Di? Any pictures so I can get an idea of what exactly you are talking about? Since I will be getting the 802Dis do I have to specify when I order that I want the metal ones?

I have been running my HTM2Di without the grill the past couple days and I can't hear any difference. Granted the speaker is only a few days old and not broken in yet but I wouldn't expect the results to change much.

[Kal Rubinson]

When you guys are referring to the different phase plug materials, what exactly is that, is it something only on the 802Di?

No. It is only on the pre-Di series that you had to use a plastic plug in order to retain the grill. My 802Ds came with both metal and plastic plugs.

Any pictures so I can get an idea of what exactly you are talking about? Since I will be getting the 802Dis do I have to specify when I order that I want the metal ones?

Not necessary. Di speakers come with the metal plugs installed as the grills are retained by magnets.

[htsteve]

Rod#S,

My 802D's came with the plastic plug. It was used to hold the midrange cover in place. The metal plugs came with the speakers, so it does not need to be ordered separately.

I think the plastic plugs are unique to the 802D's. It was the first time I ran into it.


EDIT: See Kal's answer.

[BWzes03]

Rod#S,

My 802D's came with the plastic plug. It was used to hold the midrange cover in place. The metal plugs came with the speakers, so it does not need to be ordered separately.

I think the plastic plugs are unique to the 802D's. It was the first time I ran into it.


EDIT: See Kal's answer.

The N 802 has two plastic plugs, one with the hole for the grill-mount, and a solid plastic plug without a hole.
I bought after-market full-aluminium plugs for my N804's before I got my N802's.

I prefer to run with FST grill off, and woofer grills on.

[Rod#S]

No. It is only on the pre-Di series that you had to use a plastic plug in order to retain the grill. My 802Ds came with both metal and plastic plugs.

Not necessary. Di speakers come with the metal plugs installed as the grills are retained by magnets.

Thanks Kal

[ninja12]

Rod#S,

For me, removing the grills was an appearance thing. Until I got the 802D's.
The phase plug in the mid-range driver was plastic and had a hole in the front to hold the cover in place. I took that off, replaced the plastic plug with the aluminum(?) plug that came with it. Result was a bit better detail and slightly wider soundstage. So for 802D's, it's a performance issue.



Hope this helps.

I tried this last night with my 802Ds, and I did notice that the sound stage did improve. I removed the midrange grill from my 802Ds and my HTM1D. That was a nice little performance boost. Thanks for sharing that tip. :T

[stuofsci02]

Can anyone confirm if the black phase plugs on the 804S can be changed to a brushed metallic phase plug? Also how do you change them? Do they just unthread?

[Kal Rubinson]

Can anyone confirm if the black phase plugs on the 804S can be changed to a brushed metallic phase plug? Also how do you change them? Do they just unthread?

The only difference is color as these are the same solid metal construction as the metal option on the 802Ds.

[stuofsci02]

The only difference is color as these are the same solid metal construction as the metal option on the 802Ds.

Thanks Kal,

Thats what I thought since the black ones are already metal. Is this a part I would order from B&W or are these an "aftermarket" part?

Stuart

[Kal Rubinson]

Thanks Kal,

Thats what I thought since the black ones are already metal. Is this a part I would order from B&W or are these an "aftermarket" part?

Stuart

Dunno.

[wettou]

No grills love the look and sound much better :B

[beden1]

No grills love the look and sound much better :B

I thought you did not prescribe to snake oil wives tales? Speakers sounding audibly better with the grills off, just like speaker wires make a huge difference, particularly if they use the same guage of wire!

Oh, and I forgot about those small wood blocks placed on the floor that prop up your fancy speaker wires, as they also make a huge improvement in the sound! :T

[Anovak]

OFF, definitely OFF

I think this thread demonstrates so vividly what each of our preferences are and how we may sometimes be differing on matters that, again, are akin to comparing apples to oranges.

My experience has revealed to me that the grills off of the mids and woofers on my 803S's, HTM3S and 805S surrounds makes a HUGE difference in the detail, openness or what some may call transparency in the sound.

This has been seconded many times by friends, most of them audioheads, and their comments. The trick is to try it out without the grills, listen for a while and even if I might suggest, for days at a time and then go back to the grills on and see what you hear?

When I want the real deal, I take them off.....most of the time they are there for protection only and come off for "show time!"

Andy

[Rod#S]

When swtiching between grills on and off and noticing such a difference are you concerned about recalibrating for each scenario to get the most out of each or do you just calibrate one way, say with the grills off and make do for lack of a better word when the grills are on?

[Anovak]

Rod#S, interesting question and I will give that some thought. But, for now, I don't do any messing with my settings as it seems to work just fine leaving things set as they are. And, yes, that would actually be a fairly valid description, I "make do" with the grills on. Actually, a lot of my time is spent with my wife in watching stuff she and I both like on TV which does not usually implicate audiophile kind of needs.....when it's time to REALLY listen, she's usually in the other end of the house as our ears are far different when it comes to appreciating higher volume levels.......:-)

[scanido]

Thanks Kal,

Thats what I thought since the black ones are already metal. Is this a part I would order from B&W or are these an "aftermarket" part?

Stuart

You can order the "new" FST from B&W parts. They kept the driver the same. Only difference is the silver bullet.

[stuofsci02]

You can order the "new" FST from B&W parts. They kept the driver the same. Only difference is the silver bullet.

Cool... Thanks!