Depreciation for upgrade 802 d -> di

**Birdy** · 18 July 2010, 09:58 Sunday

Originally posted by gerardhn

Dear users,

To upgrade there are to ways to go.

1. Sell them privately and buy new and ask as much as possible discount.

2. Go to your dealer and ask him what it costs to replace the old ones for new ones.

What do you think is reasonable to pay the dealer for the upgrade 802 d---> di

Given:

old price 12 k, new price 14 k, 4 years old speakers.

Your experience or opinion please.

THx Gerard.

Interested as well; although I don't dare go listen to the Di to be permanently disappointed by my actual system (which still pleases me a lot) and compelled to buy the new ones! :roll:

**beden1** · 18 July 2010, 10:36 Sunday

I guess my question would be why do it? Is it just because you have to have whatever perceived latest and greatest hits the market?

Do you think your 802Ds are now obsolete and sound bad as a result?

**Skyblue** · 18 July 2010, 12:30 Sunday

Originally posted by beden1

I guess my question would be why do it? Is it just because you have to have whatever perceived latest and greatest hits the market?

Do you think your 802Ds are now obsolete and sound bad as a result?

The old version obviously sounds as great as always. That does not matter however.

Its not about having a good system. Its about having a better system than your friends and neighbors. This is why people in the biggest house in town is usually happier than rich people living in the smallest palace in beverly hills or similar....

In a couple of years there will be something even better or newer or whatever..

**HedgeHog** · 18 July 2010, 14:10 Sunday

FWIW, dealer quoted CAD$3800 to go from 802D (1.5 yr old) to 802Di. I'm really interested since I like the piano black over the black ash.

Good luck.

-H

**Skyblue** · 18 July 2010, 14:15 Sunday

Originally posted by HedgeHog

FWIW, dealer quoted CAD$3800 to go from 802D (1.5 yr old) to 802Di. I'm really interested since I like the piano black over the black ash.

Good luck.

-H

I think that the piano black looks great when new. However, I also think that

a) Its a fashion color. Resale value might not be as good as the other colors
b) Its very fragile. Any kids, pets accidents will leave marks on them, further depreciating their value
c) They will require a lot more maintenance.

**gerardhn** · 18 July 2010, 17:49 Sunday

Hedgehog,

CAD 3800 for the the upgrdade.
But how many "CAD" s are the new 802 Di.??
(sorry dont know the values of a CAD)

**HedgeHog** · 19 July 2010, 00:06 Monday

Sky,

I think colour choice is purely that...a choice. I tend to like it despite your valid points. Guess using those criteria, not many would end up owning "piano black" pianos.

Gerardhn,

IIRC, new MSRP is CAD$15-6.5K (can't recall exactly)? So, although, $3800 is nothing to sneeze at, it's still worth contemplating. Pretty sure someone like AV-OCD chew that difference up in his search for the holy grail (sorry, Tim, not picking on you since I admire your trek/passion...just making an observation). In my short comparison, I felt the new ones noticeably better that if I had a choice to wait it out, I would have...damn hindsight. :P

Cheers,
-H

**gerardhn** · 19 July 2010, 01:42 Monday

Hedge hog

I really dont understand your notation:

CAD$15-6.5K

I have seen a price tag like that..

**Skyblue** · 19 July 2010, 04:17 Monday

Originally posted by HedgeHog

Sky,

I think colour choice is purely that...a choice. I tend to like it despite your valid points. Guess using those criteria, not many would end up owning "piano black" pianos.

They probably wouldn't no.

I have seen the piano black, and they do look stunning. Really really nice and beautiful. I'm getting the cherry though as I do have kids and my points still apply, especially to them.

**gerardhn** · 19 July 2010, 06:25 Monday

I posted this thread for a upgrade money discussion.
Not for stunning black considerations.
Iam surprized that I get so little or none upgrade $ or € values based upon dealer quotations.
Nobody busy with this subject ???

**Birdy** · 19 July 2010, 18:17 Monday

Originally posted by beden1

I guess my question would be why do it?
Why do we change computers, cars, tv, woman :B

???? For better performances, more comfort, more pleasure etc...

Is it just because you have to have whatever perceived latest and greatest hits the market?
Generally I tend to go one or two levels below the best of the market; usually I tend to find the "best of the best" too expensive

Do you think your 802Ds are now obsolete and sound bad as a result?
Absolutely not! Still delighted every time I listen to some music, even more delighted than in the past (my ear is becoming more experienced). that's also why I said that, unless I'm going to the market to buy, I will NOT listen to the Dis to be able to maintain my satisfaction of my actual system.

But like gerardhn I'm thinking: if I can obtain a fair trade for the new 802Di in exchange of my 802D; then I will go listen, and then only if the result pleases me I will conclude the deal.

Birdy :T

**HedgeHog** · 20 July 2010, 00:30 Tuesday

Originally posted by gerardhn

Hedge hog

I really dont understand your notation:

CAD$15-6.5K

I have seen a price tag like that..

Whoops, I meant I recall the suggest price per pair in Canadian dollars was $15,000 to $16,500. So my dealer was offering to exchange my oldish 802D for a pair of 802Di for the price difference of CAD$3800.

My personal feelings was that it was worth a serious consideration to get swap the 802D for 802Di even at $3800 more.

Cheers,
-H

**gerardhn** · 20 July 2010, 03:43 Tuesday

Hedge Hog,

Are you serious? Did you get that good offer really???? 3.8 k???

Price went up 2k. So 1.8 k left as "real " depreciation???

I would directly nail him and sign the contract! Today.

But I dont think your dealer will requote you that. He will never sell the old speakers for 1.8 k less.

**style** · 20 July 2010, 07:36 Tuesday

hoi gerardhn,

if you go totherland, you dealer to chaange the 802d to a pair of 802di in europa (nederland,germany, zwitserland...) forget the $ / €. 3k differnce.
if the dealer accept the old 802d back maybe you can have the half (50%) 8O from the original price!!!

if you receive €. 8k. for you old 802D is a miracle very very BIG!!!!!

today a pair of 802D ex demo or similar are priced from a dealer for sell at €. 8/9k. -> he give you 5& if you buy a new 802di without discount.

style

**stuofsci02** · 20 July 2010, 09:14 Tuesday

Originally posted by gerardhn

Hedge Hog,

Are you serious? Did you get that good offer really???? 3.8 k???

Price went up 2k. So 1.8 k left as "real " depreciation???

I would directly nail him and sign the contract! Today.

But I dont think your dealer will requote you that. He will never sell the old speakers for 1.8 k less.

I think the dealer will end up in a good position as the markup on the speakers is pretty high.

For instance if he sold the 802D speakers for $13k originally for which his cost is $9k and now he collects an additional $3,800 where his cost is $11k he has collected $16,800 from the buyer and paid B&W $20,000 for the 802D and 802Di speakers.. So his overall cost is $3,200 but he has a set of used 802D for which I think he could easily turn for $9,000. That would mean his overall profit would be $5,800 and he has moved another set of high end speakers (which is important as a dealer if you want to be able to continue to carry the 800 series). Also he has continued the relationship with the customer.

Of course all these numbers are estimated, but I don't think it is far off..

**gerardhn** · 20 July 2010, 11:17 Tuesday

two things.

I disagree with stuofsci02 (what a name). His assumption of what a dealer pays to B&W can be too far off.

I agree more with style.

Ok. lets continue this line. If a good one sells for 8k at dealer.

What should he give you for the old one? 7 k? Ok, he makes profit of 1 K.

Than you add another 7k of fresh money, than he makes the x % profit on the new one.! x = big.!

Dealer has to earn something something of course, but I think his margin on the new speaker is big enough to give us back the full 8 k! So we add 6k.

Agree or not?

3.8k?? I dont believe, anyone who can do that I wil give 4.8 k! He can have the 1k for his services.

**stuofsci02** · 20 July 2010, 12:16 Tuesday

Originally posted by gerardhn

two things.

I disagree with stuofsci02 (what a name). His assumption of what a dealer pays to B&W can be too far off.

I agree more with style.

Ok. lets continue this line. If a good one sells for 8k at dealer.

What should he give you for the old one? 7 k? Ok, he makes profit of 1 K.

Than you add another 7k of fresh money, than he makes the x % profit on the new one.! x = big.!

Dealer has to earn something something of course, but I think his margin on the new speaker is big enough to give us back the full 8 k! So we add 6k.

Agree or not?

3.8k?? I dont believe, anyone who can do that I wil give 4.8 k! He can have the 1k for his services.

Well you can disagree, but what do you think the profit margin is on 800 series speakers?

I am not sure about Europe, but in Canada most stores have a 1 year trade up policy where you can get full refund of your trade in speakers towards a more expensive set. In fact in December I traded in my two year old 683s for a new set of 804s. In Canada 683 cost about $1800 msrp and 804s msrp was about $5,000.. The dealer gave me the 804s for $2,800 plus trade of 683. Even if I bought my 683s for msrp (which I didn't), I still got a $400 discount off msrp on the 804s with a trade back of the 683s at full msrp..

All in all I paid $1600 for my 683s plus $2800 to upgrade to 804s.. Total cost to me $4,400 for 804s. And I got to use the 683s for two years..

**style** · 20 July 2010, 13:15 Tuesday

Hi stuofsci02,

a dealer (impoter) from speaker high end like B&W have a lot of money morgin profit. that is sure and is not a news.

but in europa a dealer that sell B&W if will have B&W (and classe-rotel..all the same family) can say I make a 6% discount.
if you (dealer) sell a speaker (or other from B&W family) with the 20% discount and the bbig brother B&W have this info you, little dealer you can say good bey at the B&W family products...

to have a price, yes is possible with the 20% discount, you consumer you go have this price at thephone not with a mail, black over with!!!!!

I have a friend that sell B&W and have send a mail with a good price at a interessed consumer but this last was not nearly...he is go near where he life to another dealer: and he have say...2hey but this speaker I can have for a lot minus!!:my friend have received a official recall form B&W that he don't can sell with more as 6% discount!!!
------------

I have purchased a 803Di in place froma 802D demo (the 2 was at the same around at the price) I'm very satisfait from my choice.
the 802Di is a must, the 802D is sure a very good speaker: wsa so and is so.
but if you will have the new you must pay and not little!!! I can assure this.

Style

**stuofsci02** · 20 July 2010, 13:34 Tuesday

Hi Style,

I definately agree. But with a tradein it makes a difference since he can sell the 802Di for msrp and B&W will not know that he is letting the customer trade in a set of 802D for a good deal.

And my comment was mostly in response to the original poster who did not believe that Hedgehog was offered an upgrade for $3800 Canadian dollars plus his 802D. I think that it is completely possible...

Originally posted by style

Hi stuofsci02,

a dealer (impoter) from speaker high end like B&W have a lot of money morgin profit. that is sure and is not a news.

but in europa a dealer that sell B&W if will have B&W (and classe-rotel..all the same family) can say I make a 6% discount.
if you (dealer) sell a speaker (or other from B&W family) with the 20% discount and the bbig brother B&W have this info you, little dealer you can say good bey at the B&W family products...

to have a price, yes is possible with the 20% discount, you consumer you go have this price at thephone not with a mail, black over with!!!!!

I have a friend that sell B&W and have send a mail with a good price at a interessed consumer but this last was not nearly...he is go near where he life to another dealer: and he have say...2hey but this speaker I can have for a lot minus!!:my friend have received a official recall form B&W that he don't can sell with more as 6% discount!!!
------------

I have purchased a 803Di in place froma 802D demo (the 2 was at the same around at the price) I'm very satisfait from my choice.
the 802Di is a must, the 802D is sure a very good speaker: wsa so and is so.
but if you will have the new you must pay and not little!!! I can assure this.

Style

**ray5** · 20 July 2010, 13:44 Tuesday

Hi!
Anything is possible. As long as the dealer is making a profit he can sell it at any rate he chooses. I bought my gear at a good discount, 15-20%. It depends on the margin, the 800 series usually will have lesser margins than the lines below. And then it also depends on your relationship with the dealer! From these discussions it seems the dealers in the US give more discount than the ones in Europe(not sure though).
Ray

**style** · 20 July 2010, 14:41 Tuesday

Hi ray5,

all is possible that's right.

I purchased my B&W803Di with the 23% discount.

I have a very good relation with my dealer....is the B&W self!

switzerland is a little country ...if I need a piece I call with the phone and my friend come at my home with make business and with eat a pizza :T :W

great. with other brand I don't have so a relationship so good... :cry:

Style

**ray5** · 20 July 2010, 14:45 Tuesday

Originally posted by style

Hi ray5,

all is possible that's right.

I purchased my B&W803Di with the 23% discount.

I have a very good relation with my dealer....is the B&W self!

switzerland is a little country ...if I need a piece I call with the phone and my friend come at my home with make business and with eat a pizza :T :W

great. with other brand I don't have so a relationship so good... :cry:

Style

That's awesome! I guess he pays for the pizza!

**stuofsci02** · 20 July 2010, 14:47 Tuesday

Originally posted by ray5

Hi!
Anything is possible. As long as the dealer is making a profit he can sell it at any rate he chooses. I bought my gear at a good discount, 15-20%. It depends on the margin, the 800 series usually will have lesser margins than the lines below. And then it also depends on your relationship with the dealer! From these discussions it seems the dealers in the US give more discount than the ones in Europe(not sure though).
Ray

I agree that pricing in North America seems cheaper then in Eurpope.. That said, Style is correct that B&W limits the discount that the dealer can give so that the product line does not get cheapened.

I am not sure I agree that the 800 series has less margin. In fact I think the 800 series probably has the most margin as it is a premium product... Just like a Lexus would have more margin % wise then a Yaris. B&W has a lot more competition in the entry level market..

**ray5** · 20 July 2010, 15:03 Tuesday

Originally posted by stuofsci02

I am not sure I agree that the 800 series has less margin. In fact I think the 800 series probably has the most margin as it is a premium product... Just like a Lexus would have more margin % wise then a Yaris. B&W has a lot more competition in the entry level market..

That's what I thought too but a dealer told me that to be not true. Only a dealer forum member can shed some light on this.

**stuofsci02** · 20 July 2010, 15:21 Tuesday

Originally posted by ray5

That's what I thought too but a dealer told me that to be not true. Only a dealer forum member can shed some light on this.

Hmmm.. Quite interesting.. This would certainly be a surprise...

**Birdy** · 20 July 2010, 18:04 Tuesday

Originally posted by gerardhn

two things.

Dealer has to earn something something of course, but I think his margin on the new speaker is big enough to give us back the full 8 k! So we add 6k.

Would agree with the contrary, dealer gives back 50% of original price (so 6K) so he can still sell it back with a small margin (7K?) and we would pay the difference with whatever discounted price he will agree to do.
Personally for 8K I'll keep my "old" 802D :lol: :lol:
For 5 I can have a look.... :roll: :roll: :roll:

**style** · 20 July 2010, 18:22 Tuesday

hi Birdy,

you know that in Italy is not easy have back a big import for a pair of 802d or other models...
a pair of 802D is priced around 8k. if are a not much old speaker and is in good condiction...

we have always listen this B&W 802D and say wow, now is no more enough?
or what is happen?

is a personal decision : I will (i dont' NEED) have the 802Di vs. the D? if yes
money out!!!

never mind, greetings Style

**HedgeHog** · 20 July 2010, 18:26 Tuesday

Yeah, that price diff is definitely worth serious considerations. Not sure if that price is because I told him I am also interested in swapping the HTM2D and also considering a pair of CA-M400 as additions to my system. He quoted CAD$1600 for the HTM2Di upgrade but never quoted on the amps as he suggested I wait for the new CA-M600.

Anyway, back on topic. I am definitely considering it but just budgeting for the amps as well as some sound proofing (and extra cabling).

Cheers,
-H

**garak** · 20 July 2010, 19:58 Tuesday

Originally posted by stuofsci02

I agree that pricing in North America seems cheaper then in Eurpope.. That said, Style is correct that B&W limits the discount that the dealer can give so that the product line does not get cheapened.

I am not sure I agree that the 800 series has less margin. In fact I think the 800 series probably has the most margin as it is a premium product... Just like a Lexus would have more margin % wise then a Yaris. B&W has a lot more competition in the entry level market..

Originally posted by ray5

That's what I thought too but a dealer told me that to be not true. Only a dealer forum member can shed some light on this.

My dealer also told me that the margins on the 800 series are smaller than the other B&W lines.

He told me B&W charges a higher wholesale price relative to the MSRP so dealers can't diminish the 800 series brand by offering large discounts.

FWIW, I have a good relationship with my dealer and I believe him.

**gerardhn** · 20 July 2010, 20:55 Tuesday

Can we summarize things?

Who has a quotation: very serious oral or written down for the upgrade??.

I read 3.8 k. (I dont believe that, sorry)
I read a range from birdy 8 k (dont do) 5 k (consider to do).

My thinking: he sells the old for 8 k, and he must earn, so he gives 7 k to me.
I buy new 14 k, he can give discount of 1 k without problem, still earning money. So effective new price = 13 k.
So I should pay 13 -7 = 6 k for the upgrade.
Reasonable or not?

(FYI: it means a depreciation of 0.1 k/month , 1.5 k/ year)

**HedgeHog** · 20 July 2010, 23:20 Tuesday

LOL, like ppl just pop in to threads and make up upgrade prices? I have the email still but it's pointless as you're in the Netherlands and I'm in Canada.

All the best in your search.

Originally posted by gerardhn

Who has a quotation: very serious oral or written down for the upgrade??.

I read 3.8 k. (I dont believe that, sorry)

**Birdy** · 21 July 2010, 02:07 Wednesday

Originally posted by gerardhn

Can we summarize things?

Reasonable or not?

Only you can answer that! :roll: :roll: 8) 8) 8)

**bigburner** · 21 July 2010, 04:41 Wednesday

Originally posted by Birdy

Only you can answer that!

That sounds reasonable!

**gerardhn** · 21 July 2010, 05:00 Wednesday

Birdy!
Of course, I think I write something reasonable.
But do our forum members (like you) agree with me, follow my reasoning?

**Birdy** · 24 July 2010, 14:29 Saturday

Originally posted by gerardhn

Birdy!
Of course, I think I write something reasonable.
But do our forum members (like you) agree with me, follow my reasoning?

Only they can answer that....

**Skyblue** · 24 July 2010, 17:36 Saturday

Originally posted by gerardhn

Birdy!
Of course, I think I write something reasonable.
But do our forum members (like you) agree with me, follow my reasoning?

Go listen, decide if your wallet think its worth it. Also consider that the new speakers you get will have a better resale value down the line.

**Birdy** · 25 July 2010, 12:48 Sunday

Originally posted by Skyblue

Go listen, decide if your wallet think its worth it. Also consider that the new speakers you get will have a better resale value down the line.

Till the production of the 802Dii...... :cry: :bash:

**gerardhn** · 26 July 2010, 08:08 Monday

Stil.... Iám so surprized that little (actually NONE) of the B&W junkies here can say what a result of their investigation is/was to upgrade a pair of 802 d to di.

Nobody horney anymore? All cought by recession fever??

**Birdy** · 26 July 2010, 09:38 Monday

Originally posted by gerardhn

Stil.... Iám so surprized that little (actually NONE) of the B&W junkies here can say what a result of their investigation is/was to upgrade a pair of 802 d to di.

Nobody horney anymore? All cought by recession fever??

Will do it but not soon, sorry.
Just missed an opportunity to sell my 802D at 30% of the catalogue price.... :M

**wettou** · 26 July 2010, 18:58 Monday

Originally posted by gerardhn

Still.... I'm so surprised that little (actually NONE) of the B&W junkies here can say what a result of their investigation is/was to upgrade a pair of 802 d to di. Nobody horny anymore? All caught by recession fever??

As my dealer said with 802D upgrading to 802Di is a waist of money, how is that for honesty :T The shinny rings go well with the chrome on the cars way to go BB

It explain why B&W has pulled 75% of their dealers

**gerardhn** · 27 July 2010, 11:05 Tuesday

Wettou,

For me difficult to imagine that a dealer/salesman says: sir dont buy, please not. Keep your money. Dont waste your money on the 802Di that is standing there in my listening room.

On which planet are you???

**wettou** · 27 July 2010, 15:27 Tuesday

Originally posted by gerardhn

Wettou, For me difficult to imagine that a dealer/salesman says: sir dont buy, please not. Keep your money. Dont waste your money on the 802Di that is standing there in my listening room. On which planet are you???

EARTH and that is fine if you don't believe me, I have bought a lot from this dealer over the years and he wants to keep me as a repeat customer.....

**HedgeHog** · 27 July 2010, 17:28 Tuesday

Originally posted by wettou

EARTH and that is fine if you don't believe me, I have bought a lot from this dealer over the years and he wants to keep me as a repeat customer.....

Gerardhn seems to have a hard time believing any replies...very X-Files "Trust No One"

**style** · 27 July 2010, 17:41 Tuesday

Well if you go listne the new 802Di and the 802D ad you don't understand the difference is not easy.....

are 2 differente speakers!! from the little 805 to the big 800... is ot only a restyling operation!!

I like much more the new B&W sound: I have listen a "old" 802D and the new 803Di: I purchase the new 803Di. :T

style

Depreciation for upgrade 802 d -> di

Depreciation for upgrade 802 d -> di

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