B&W 802 upgrade from 805 Signatures

[bcgator]

Hello all,

I'm looking for some feedback on the prospect of upgrading from 805 Signatures to B&W 802. I think what I'm most interested in are opinions around how different they sound, what types of music will sound better or worse on the 802, characteristics of the 805 Signature that the 802 can't replicate well, etc.

Because I'm in the process of looking for a new place to live, let's leave room size and shape out of the equation. Same for amplification - let's assume for the purpose of this exercise that I have amplication adequate for the 802.

I already understand that the 802 will offer better bass response, and may eliminate the need for a subwoofer (which the 805 Sig still needs for rock music), so we can skip that particular angle.

My local dealer has no more 802 in stock, so demoing them is not possible - I'd be buying a set of used 802's. Until I can find someplace to listen to them, the advice of the people on this board would be apreciated.

Thanks all,
BCGator

[JürgenW]

It's a while ago that I was comparing the 805S to the N802. Before I started I hoped the 805S would satisfy my needs (because they suited better in my room and to my money). And I had already read very positive reviews of the 805S.
So, I made an appointment with the dealer. I took a few cd's with classical [hobo, piano, choir, ...] (inclusive opera) music and jazz music with me. The kind of the music I like and the recording of it, which I prefer.

I started with the 805S and they sounded really very nice: a very open detailled space, ... I listened to them I think about 1 hour.
After the dealer prepared the room for the N802, while I strolled outside.
Went back, listened to the same records and was astonished how much more I liked the N802: they added an extra dimension to the music, which made it more complete and let me smile while listening.
(By the way the N802 were connected to a Marantz PM14, because I had asked for a Marantz amplifier.)
And I knew that I had to go for a N802, but they were then to expensive to me, so no deal was made.
(And now I have the Matrix 801, by the way, which are also great.)

[captzerg]

I like the midrange on the 805 Sigs. Just got my pair this last week. I feel the 805 Sig has something on the midrange - detail, warmth, specificity that is electric when it comes to vocals. That was when I compared it to the 802N. I guess it all depends on what you are looking for.

PS: The 805S doesn't have the same staging as the sigs. The 805 Sig is still the better speaker by a full level.

[Nick Danger]

I thought that the 800 series replaced the Nautilus, so wouldn't the new 802 have the diamond tweeters and Rohacell woofers? I would wait for them to give them a listen before making a move - this seems like a big change for this line.

Just MHO!

Nick

[Dutch in USA]

Hi BCG,

I made the same upgrade some months ago. Look for my other postings to find the full details.
In short: the 805 sigs are amazing!..in a small room. The 802's fill up a room like nothing else (in that range
I have no 2nd thoughts what so ever. If you can make the jump, go for it.

Cheers

[bcgator]

Great replies everyone, thanks.

Captzerg, you hit on something I've heard elsewhere....that going from the 805 Sig to the 802 you lose something in the midrange and with vocals. That's the kind of feedback that is very helpful, at least until I can hear 802's for myself.

Dutch, can you give me an idea of room size? What room are you using your 802's in, and at what room size do you think the 802 stops making sense? (what is too small, in ballpark terms of course)

Nick, thanks for offering help, but the new 802D speaker is something like $12,000 right? It's one thing for me to jump from $3500 Sigs to $5500 802 (price for a good used pair), but up to $12,000 for the 802D just doesn't work for me at this time. In a money-doesn't-matter situation, you're right I would definitely look at the new 802D.

Thanks again everyone,
BCGator

[Dutch in USA]

Dutch, can you give me an idea of room size? What room are you using your 802's in, and at what room size do you think the 802 stops making sense? (what is too small, in ballpark terms of course)

I use them in my open living room which is about 5x9x6m with a ceiling height of 6m. I moved here with the 805 Sigs. They really had a hard time. The glamour of before (5x5x2.5m) vanished. The 805's are the best "bookshelf" speakers I have heard (the black tiger look is fabtastic too) so it was a tough decision, but an obvious one too.
IMO the max roomsize for the 805's is around 35m2. The 802's would start there, more because of their presence then anything else as they still sound great at low volumes.

I did think at the time that the 805's sounded tighter, but I moved that aside as a misinterpretation of lacking bass. Before I decided to upgrade I had a good 3 hour session at my dealer. Not that it takes that long to figure out that there is a difference, but to make sure that it is there on all levels with all kinds of music.
A big gain for me is the sheer volume of the music, not as in "loud", but as in "full". The 805's I had to put up really loud to be able to hear the full range when not being in the direct vicinity. The 802's carry sound a lot further without being loud up close.

D

[bcgator]

Thanks Dutch, that makes sense. If I'm doing my math correctly, you've got those speakers in a 16 feet by 29 feet room with a 19 foot ceiling!! No wonder the 805's wouldn't cut it...that's a very high ceiling, at least by my standards. I'm not surprised in the least that you needed to move up to the 802's.

Even with my impending new home purchase, and larger living room, I'm still looking at a max room size of approximately 6m x 5m with a 4m ceiling. Not that the 802's would be overkill, but the 805's may continue to work well in a room that size.

Thanks again, good information,
BCGator

[davedimes]

If you do decide to go for the 802's, I'm looking for a pair of 805 Signatures..

Dave

[bcgator]

Dave, I will definitely keep that in mind :-)

I can tell you that you will not regret purchase of the Sigs. Not only do they sound incredible, but their build quality and detailing are so remarkable that there's a certain pride of ownership that comes from just looking at them, whether there's music coming out of them or not. I have them in the bird's eye red, on silver B&W 805 stands, and they're truly a pleasure to own.

I think it's hard for people who've never heard the 805 Sigs to understand why owners like me speak so excitedly about their ability to reproduce high and midrange frequencies. Vocals are pure magic. For example, I've heard the Quad line of tower speakers (21L and 22L) in a well-prepared audio showroom - and they sounded fantastic. But when I brought home a pair of Quads just for fun (shop owner let me demo over a weekend), I couldn't believe how dramatically different they sounded. The best analogy I can give you is that the 805 Sigs were like glass, and the Quads like sandpaper. Even my old B&W 704's were badly outclassed by the 805 Sigs in a side-by-side comparison.

This is the reason for my post here...the only reason I'm considering the 802's is a simple case of upgrade-itis. Nothing more! But I want to be smart about it, because there's a real risk that unless my next move is to the 800 Signatures or something like the new 802D (which I've not heard), there's a real possibility that I'll regret ever selling the 805 Sigs. They're that good.

Anyway, I hope you find a pair soon, because the sooner you do the sooner you'll enjoy the music you listen to. This is just my rather-uninformed opinion, but until you've heard Patricia Barber or Diana Krall on the 805 Sigs, it's possible you've not heard them at their sweetest.

Have a great weekend all,
BCGator

[Dutch in USA]

I agree with you 100% BCGator. Looking at the room size, you can, but should not be "pushed" to upgrade.
What I did however is up the amp already at the smaller place. I started with a Classe 151 at 150wpc but made the decision the same evening to move up to CP47.5/CA201 combo at 200wpc. Only a 50wpc increase while both can blow up the 805's (not that that is the purpose, but still). Should not make too much difference, or? Well, it made a huge one! The bass was significantly tighter, fuller and faster. The overall sound staging was moved up from great to mouth watering. Maybe a little bit over the top? To me that does not exist at a point were "need" has long left the room. At that time I was not thinking about upgrading so it was a system well considered. It does set you up for a future speaker upgrade while you already get the full benefits via the 805Sigs.
Dutch

[bcgator]

Dutch, I recently added a new amp to my system, an ATI 1506. It was literally the last 1506 left at ATI, as this model was discontinued 2 years ago. I wanted this particular amp because it's bridgeable, with the 6 channels becoming 3 at 450 watts per channel. I'd already tried a Rotel 1075 and a Parasound Halo A51 and was unimpressed with both. But the ATI absolutely sounds wonderful. Maybe the best $1400 I've spent on my system. Even un-bridged, the ATI sounds better than the Parasound Halo, at about 35% of the cost. So I think power-wise I'm set for a while.

BCGator