B&W to be offered at Best Buy Magnolia

[Blindamood]

I'm not sure why, but I'd like to offer my $.02 on this subject as well...

I totally disagree with a company like B&W selling high-end product at Best Buy, regardless of what variety of Magnolia store it is. I've only been to one around here (in South Florida), and was totally unimpressed by the selection, display, and sales floor knowledge. Here are the reasons for my opinion:

- I will not learn anything new from a typical BB sales person, but I used to learn plenty from the 'boutique' store employees I have dealt with previously. I don't mind paying a little more to actually learn something and receive personal attention in the process.

- BB will not have the comparable mid- to high-level product that I can directly compare, nor do they typically have the environment to do so appropriately.

- I have dealt with BB on other high-$ items (e.g., appliances) and will never shop there for such items again, regardless of price. The service, process, and lack of personal attention I had to deal with was ridiculous.

- Whether we want to admit it or not, one aspect of buying high-end gear is the cachet that comes with it. The B&W brand will be watered down as are so many other unique and high-quality brands when the hit the mass market.

- The resale value and market that we've come to rely on will will lessen over time, because audiogon will no longer be the only place that B&Ws can be had for those with no local dealer. I've been able to upgrade through the B&W line over the years due to the strong resale market, with used B&Ws selling very quickly and with a consisent retained value.

- I no longer respect B&W/Rotel for being so controlling with their product through their dealer network (and now for cutting off the bottom 75% of performers, if true...?). My previous dealer had his line pulled a couple of years ago, and I have not purchased B&W since. I am fortunate that I completed my 'set' prior to that happening, by my next speakers will most likely not be B&W.

- I've seen other higher-level products being sold through online retailers like Crutchfield, Audio Advisor, Music Direct, etc., and would much prefer to give those specialty retailers my business over a chain like BB. Even Crutchfield carries Thiel, so that is one decent online speaker option.

So, that's my though process. Not sure anyone cares, but though I'd throw it out there with the rest...

[Race Car Driver]

With my idea you cut out the retailer, so the savings will help pay for the costs along with the profits from increased sales.

You may want to read what I said: there are no free standing Magnolia Stores on the East Coast of the US! So my question was: where do we go to listen to their 800 Series speakers?

I dont need to re-read what you said. I saw it the first time.

There are no Magnolia Audio Video stores close to me either. The answer is the same place you would go before. An authorized B&W retailer that has them on display.

http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=1426

I don't understand what you are trying to get at by the "There are no Magnolia Standalone's near you".

[Race Car Driver]

- I will not learn anything new from a typical BB sales person, but I used to learn plenty from the 'boutique' store employees I have dealt with previously. I don't mind paying a little more to actually learn something and receive personal attention in the process.

- BB will not have the comparable mid- to high-level product that I can directly compare, nor do they typically have the environment to do so appropriately.

- I've seen other higher-level products being sold through online retailers like Crutchfield, Audio Advisor, Music Direct, etc., and would much prefer to give those specialty retailers my business over a chain like BB. Even Crutchfield carries Thiel, so that is one decent online speaker option.

But wouldnt that be a contradiction?

Guess we will have to see how this evolves in a few months. I dont think we will have answer on how this affects Best Buy, Magnolia or B&W for quite some time however.

[beden1]

I dont need to re-read what you said. I saw it the first time.

There are no Magnolia Audio Video stores close to me either. The answer is the same place you would go before. An authorized B&W retailer that has them on display.

http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=1426

I don't understand what you are trying to get at by the "There are no Magnolia Standalone's near you".

Because, the Magnolia Standalone stores will be the only ones carrying the 800Di series speakers from what was posted, aside from whatever current retailers will be still selling B&W speakers.

But, and according to a previous post, if B&W is eliminating 75% of their retail dealers, chances are that includes the ones that are close to me as well.

[Blindamood]

But wouldnt that be a contradiction?

Guess we will have to see how this evolves in a few months. I dont think we will have answer on how this affects Best Buy, Magnolia or B&W for quite some time however.

I'm full of contradictions when it comes to buying high-end audio equipment...

Bottom line is I'd rather give my business to a more specialized online retailer than to BB.

[Race Car Driver]

I'm full of contradictions when it comes to buying high-end audio equipment...

Arent we all? :rofl:

[beden1]

I'm full of contradictions when it comes to buying high-end audio equipment...

Bottom line is I'd rather give my business to a more specialized online retailer than to BB.

I agree!

[btf1980]

This is the reality of the business today. It sucks, but they need to survive. The reason why all these hifi shops are closing is because people are not buying, and if they are, they are buying used on Audiogon. What exactly do you want B&W to do? I understand, it's tough & disposable income isn't that disposable anymore. The high end is really struggling. One dealer I know had an openbox pair of 802ds for sale at $8K. Basically new. It's was there for 4 months at that price. A tourist from Yemen bought it! This is NYC folks. There is no greater foot traffic or market out there than here for hifi, and it was very hard to move. The price for the openbox 802ds is a little over $2K more than what the new 805 diamonds sell for if you include the really expensive stands. Look at Audiogon now. $6,000 power amps are barely selling at 60% off. I'm seeing McIntosh MC252 and even MC352 amps selling for $2500-$3000 range. It's rough out here, so unless you want B&W to go under, they have to adapt.

Building specialty stores is not plausible or realistic. B&W isn't Apple! They can't build hundreds of stores worldwide.

[Race Car Driver]

Building specialty stores is not plausible or realistic. B&W isn't Apple! They can't build hundreds of stores worldwide.

Agreed. Best Buy and Magnolia already have the store front. It was a smart move on both ends IMO.

B&W has a shrinking dealer base from 245 last year to 175 this year and still shrinking because of all this. Getting in with BB/MHT just doubled that retail space. Not a dumb move at all.

[ninja12]

This is the reality of the business today. It sucks, but they need to survive. The reason why all these hifi shops are closing is because people are not buying, and if they are, they are buying used on Audiogon. What exactly do you want B&W to do? I understand, it's tough & disposable income isn't that disposable anymore. The high end is really struggling. One dealer I know had an openbox pair of 802ds for sale at $8K. Basically new. It's was there for 4 months at that price. A tourist from Yemen bought it! This is NYC folks. There is no greater foot traffic or market out there than here for hifi, and it was very hard to move. The price for the openbox 802ds is a little over $2K more than what the new 805 diamonds sell for if you include the really expensive stands. Look at Audiogon now. $6,000 power amps are barely selling at 60% off. I'm seeing McIntosh MC252 and even MC352 amps selling for $2500-$3000 range. It's rough out here, so unless you want B&W to go under, they have to adapt.

Building specialty stores is not plausible or realistic. B&W isn't Apple! They can't build hundreds of stores worldwide.

I completely understand why B&W are doing what they are doing; but, if the presentation is not good, they are not going to sale. Your normal BB customers are not going to fork over 2k for a pair of B&W Speakers as easily as knowledgeable AV Customers like us would do. Hopefully, the presentation of the B&Ws will not be like trying to demonstrate the performance of a Porsche on ice. But, yes, I fully understand what B&W are trying to do. They must find some way to survive.

[Aiden]

With my idea you cut out the retailer, so the savings will help pay for the costs along with the profits from increased sales.

You may want to read what I said: there are no free standing Magnolia Stores on the East Coast of the US! So my question was: where do we go to listen to their 800 Series speakers?

There will be soon.

[btf1980]

I completely understand why B&W are doing what they are doing; but, if the presentation is not good, they are not going to sale. Your normal BB customers are not going to fork over 2k for a pair of B&W Speakers as easily as knowledgeable AV Customers like us would do. Hopefully, the presentation of the B&Ws will not be like trying to demonstrate the performance of a Porsche on ice. But, yes, I fully understand what B&W are trying to do. They must find some way to survive.

Agreed. Based on the reactions to Magnolias, I think they are different in some parts of the country. Based on some people's experiences in this thread, some locations leave a lot to be desired. The ones I have seen were first rate operations, with first rate gear & very knowledgeable staff. CEDIA certified etc. I know many of these guys. They weren't some Best Buy teenage flunkies. These are professionals with years of experience. Magnolia shoppers weren't the average Best Buy shopper though. It was like a store in a store. Similar to GameRush & Blockbuster.

I think what Best Buy has to do is make the other Magnolias as good as the standalone Magnolia stores that were around before. That is the biggest problem. I have a feeling that all the best BB Magnolias were the ones that kept the Magnolia staff. That's a management call. I hope B&W gets that point across because it will be a disaster if they have some punk kids peddling B&W speakers.

[beden1]

I guess I will have to go to Best Buy/Magnolia to pick up some Monster Cables to go with my B&W speakers...because that is what BB/Magnolia people told me I needed the last time I was there looking at a new HDTV. Oh, and I forgot that I will need to buy a BB extended warranty as well! :T

It will be interesting!

[Race Car Driver]

I happen to be using Monster Cable with my B&Ws. The cable havppened to be purchased at a local Best Buy. Guess what? I'm still here and everything still works.

Crazy huh?

[emig5m]

I have Radio Shack speaker wire and banana plugs, beat that! :

[beden1]

I happen to be using Monster Cable with my B&Ws. The cable havppened to be purchased at a local Best Buy. Guess what? I'm still here and everything still works.

Crazy huh?

I guess you are happy that Best Buy was able to upsell you on Monster cables. Why am I not surprised? :T

[beden1]

I have Radio Shack speaker wire and banana plugs, beat that! :

I have cables from Blue Jeans cable, so there! :B

[Race Car Driver]

I guess you are happy that Best Buy was able to upsell you on Monster cables. Why am I not surprised? :T

You sound a bit sour there, grasping for straws are we?

[Nolan B]

I don think the high end market is gone, its just that people are buying different. There is a huge market for high end homes with high end home theaters and listening rooms. Traditional hi-end hifi stores dont really cater or market properly to attract that market thou IMO. They should be working with designers, contractors and the general A&D community more.

I personally like the idea of high end audio being exposed to larger masses. Maybe people will finally understand just how crappy everything else in Best Buy is... provided they have proper set ups and educated sales people.

Ill bet that as a manufacture B&W is very frustrated with more then 75% of their dealers. They probably ask themselves all the time "why is our dealer network acting no different over the last 10-20 years when the market has changed so significantly?" The bottom line is their distribution network is failing...it has nothing to do with a shrinking market.


Ill bet they wanted the letter to sound more like this.

"Dear Dealer:
You suck at selling. Your current marketing "strategy" of having a store running adds in the local paper and hoping for people to walk in has failed. Cant say we didn't warn you. Regardless of a crappy economy in 2009 in the big picture there are more people with money today than 20 years ago. People with that money still like quality and spend money, but you are unable to get in front of them. Our only choice (for the moment) is to put our product in front as many people as possible hoping our stuff sells. Those of you who make an effort to change with the market and continue to move with the market can keep the brand. As for the rest either you go out of business on your own, or we pull the plug on the line. Either way we see the same outcome.

Yours Truly


Joe Schmo
President of a company with a marketing department"

[emig5m]

I have cables from Blue Jeans cable, so there! :B

Me to, and I also have cables from.... Monoprice!~ Nope, not going to beat Monoprice, are ya? :rofl:

[beden1]

Me to, and I also have cables from.... Monoprice!~ Nope, not going to beat Monoprice, are ya? :rofl:

How are they compared to Blue Jeans?

[emig5m]

How are they compared to Blue Jeans?

Well the AV patch cables weren't that good as half of my 5 channel kit produced a hum through my Emotiva XPA-5. Swapped cables from channel to channel and it was definitely a specific three of the five cables that would produce the hum or it was more like a buzz sound. With the Blue Jeans cables which they custom made them to my exact size needed the hum totally disappeared- every cable on every channel = perfect! :B The Monoprice HDMI and optical cables seem to work without fault...

[beden1]

Well the AV patch cables weren't that good as half of my 5 channel kit produced a hum through my Emotiva XPA-5. Swapped cables from channel to channel and it was definitely a specific three of the five cables that would produce the hum or it was more like a buzz sound. With the Blue Jeans cables which they custom made them to my exact size needed the hum totally disappeared- every cable on every channel = perfect! :B The Monoprice HDMI and optical cables seem to work without fault...

That's why I originally tried Blue Jeans cables, to get rid of a hum issue I had that was not ground related. They worked so good that I decided to change all of my cables and wires to their products. The background is now super clean! :T

[leej]

I wonder what's BB's policy for returns of high-end speakers and what kind of "open box" prices may come of it. There could be some good deals on damaged items, too, if you don't mind pushed-in tweeters and such. Never thought I'd see B&W in the Bargin Basement!

[beden1]

I wonder what's BB's policy for returns of high-end speakers and what kind of "open box" prices may come of it. There could be some good deals on damaged items, too, if you don't mind pushed-in tweeters and such. Never thought I'd see B&W in the Bargin Basement!

I was thinking that we probably would not even get the 10% off that was automatic with their regular dealers, as Best Buy does not negotiate prices?

[Aiden]

I was thinking that we probably would not even get the 10% off that was automatic with their regular dealers, as Best Buy does not negotiate prices?

30 day return and 10% off open box items unless the product has aesthetic damage.

[beden1]

30 day return and 10% off open box items unless the product has aesthetic damage.

Right, and list price for buying them new.

[Aiden]

Right, and list price for buying them new.

Like anyone, they will work with you as long as it doesn't mean they are violating their agreement with the manufacturer.

[beden1]

Like anyone, they will work with you as long as it doesn't mean they are violating their agreement with the manufacturer.

No, not like anyone because they are a large retail chain, and their sales people don't have the authority to work deals.

[Race Car Driver]

No, not like anyone because they are a large retail chain, and their sales people don't have the authority to work deals.

You speak as if you work for Best Buy and "know" how it works.

But really, you don't.

[beden1]

You speak as if you work for Best Buy and "know" how it works.

But really, you don't.

Only know what I have experienced at Best Buy and Circuit City, as well as most other major retailers over many years. So, I guess I know as much as you would and possibly more, unless you work there?

Aside from whatever coupons and points deals they have at the time, they don't have the authority to work custom deals. Unless possibly you are getting an employee discount?

I'm glad you're pleased B&W speakers will be sold in Best Buy Stores, but I'm not. So I guess we agree to disagree!

[Aiden]

Only know what I have experienced at Best Buy and Circuit City, as well as most other major retailers over many years. So, I guess I know as much as you would and possibly more, unless you work there?

Aside from whatever coupons and points deals they have at the time, they don't have the authority to work custom deals. Unless possibly you are getting an employee discount?

I'm glad you're pleased B&W speakers will be sold in Best Buy Stores, but I'm not. So I guess we agree to disagree!

You are way off base. I purchased my Elite 151, Sonos system and some mirage speakers for the Sonos system and they worked with me on the price, same goes for the system my brother purchased from another BBY/MHT (He lives on the other side of the country).

Now if you walk in and are spending a thousand bucks on a single product then you shouldn't expect one.

[tim916]

I'm glad you're pleased B&W speakers will be sold in Best Buy Stores, but I'm not. So I guess we agree to disagree!

I would rather that B&W speakers be sold at Best Buy than not at all, which could be the outcome if B&W does not make this change.

[Nolan B]

I would rather that B&W speakers be sold at Best Buy than not at all, which could be the outcome if B&W does not make this change.

exactly...their current dealer channel is not cutting it and thats the bottom line.

[Skyblue]

exactly...their current dealer channel is not cutting it and thats the bottom line.

I don't live in the US so I'm not surewhat kinda store the Best Buy chain is. But from the reactions it sounds like its not the place you'd just pop down to have a listen to the 800D's...I wonder if it won't diminish the B&W brand.

[ninja12]

I would rather that B&W speakers be sold at Best Buy than not at all, which could be the outcome if B&W does not make this change.

Well, there's a good chance the B&W Speakers will not be sold at BB too. If the presentation is not right, they will not sell. If they sound the same or worse than a cheaper pair of speakers, then the cheaper pair of speakers will sell, and the B&Ws will not. I hope that's not the case; but, based on the demos I have heard at BB, I would never buy a HT from there. I guess I been doing this hobby for a while, and I have a little knowledge. Anyway, I just hope the demos are good. If they are, then they will have a good chance of selling.

[audioqueso]

You know, personally I think it's gonna come down to greed.
B&W is going to make money off of this. It's a smart move on their end.
But two years down the line when they're back up and getting good income...
1) Is that money going go towards the customer (money towards development, research, and overall better speakers)
2) Is that money going to go towards the top end employees with little towards the product?

I'm still saying the same thing... look what happened to Klipsch.

[wettou]

exactly...their current dealer channel is not cutting it and thats the bottom line.

Exactly it is a pure business decision they are in the business to make money. What they should have done is take their lower line and call it something else just like Toyota and Lexus.

I can't imagine BB/Magnolia selling the 800 series I HATE that store it is full of incompetent people who are only interested in pushing boxes. They are also more expensive than anyone else!! Most of the sales people are under trained, with a very low IQ and unpleasant that have no clue as to what they are selling!!

I tried to get a demo of Vienna Acoustic the other day and it was horrendous, one of the speaker had been blown and the distortion was really bad. The sales guy said "Oh I think the music was poorly recorded when I pointed out that I think the speaker is broken he looked me with an air of Forest Gump!! He called his supervisor who said well let's switch to an other brand Definite and yes the speaker was blown :W

Anyway needless to say I will never buy any speakers from them or anything for that matter.

I can't understand how they can be in business, I guess they are the only one left

[Opus007]

I sure am glad I got my lower level line before they call them toyotas.Or maybe they will call them WB's(Wanna Bees) instead of BW"s.

But seriously, my thinking is this.They may sell some of the 600 series at the instore Magnolias but I do not think they will sell a lot.Most folks going to buy speakers at Best Buy are not true audiophiles.They will listen to a set of 683 towers with a denon receiver or sony/yammaha/ect...and say that it is too detailed and will prefere a muddled speaker and buy a pair of polks or something less revealing.

I have been known to be wrong but for me it does not matter as I have another dealer a hour away who is not going anywhere and has the 800 series and all the high end stuff that I can not afford but maybe some day.

[Nolan B]

I don't live in the US so I'm not surewhat kinda store the Best Buy chain is. But from the reactions it sounds like its not the place you'd just pop down to have a listen to the 800D's...I wonder if it won't diminish the B&W brand.

the problem is the hi-fi stores that currently carry the brand arent the place people where going to listen to them either.

[wettou]

the problem is the hi-fi stores that currently carry the brand arent the place people where going to listen to them either.

Ok then they should have opened their own retail stores like Apple between Classé, Rotel and B&W that would have ben amazing :T

[Cactus]

Ok then they should have opened their own retail stores like Apple between Classé, Rotel and B&W that would have ben amazing :T

To do that in this economic climate would be certain suicide. Ride the storm keeping yourself afloat with the help of BB/Magnolia.....maybe a great idea on the backend.

[wettou]

To do that in this economic climate would be certain suicide. Ride the storm keeping yourself afloat with the help of BB/Magnolia.....maybe a great idea on the backend.

Will find out the silver trims go well with the wheels......

[Russ L]

Its the race to the bottom that B&W started when they moved production to Communist China. Moved into The Apple Store and now Best Buy!! They are making speakers for their shareholders and not for the audiophile.

Because of this our hi end dealer has dropped B&W except for 600 series for home theater. Now carrying Audio Physic as their top line.

I just sold my B&Ws and moved to Verity Audio :T

[1oldguy]

The beginning of the end has arrived .2012.