B&W 805 Diamond Unboxing

[Pedro]

When I auditioned the Dynaudio S5.4 in my room, they had the tightest, most visceral bass of any speaker that has come before or after them. But I agree, both the S5.4 and the S3.4 had a glare through the midrange that was not all that pleasant. The Sapphires were great in the mids and highs, but weak in the bass.

Exactly. I didnt heard Sapphires, but the C4 seems to have the same type of sound. And the 5.4 does have the visceral bass indeed, they can output incredible more bass than C4´s. For Dyns to have a lot of bass and sweet highs probably just the Temptations :roll: And that´s where 801D entered to me, being the best option and costing just a little bit more than C4 :T

[style]

Hallo Tim,

I will say that you are in the 2 channel direction: I agree with beden1!

this is a B&W forrum but go see or if is possible go listen the Rochport spaekers....-> www.rockporttechnologies.com/

with the "little" models you will be very surprised!
or
Verity speaker..-> the Rienzi or the "entry level" Linn.

the Denon 5308: make you happy well keep him and event. buy a valves ampli and use the denon as pre... !!!

The Denon is a good "gear" and you will have a display...for the concert and blueray disc you need it.

you have at the point to decide what for "road" run!

Omar

[sikoniko]

When I auditioned the Dynaudio S5.4 in my room, they had the tightest, most visceral bass of any speaker that has come before or after them. But I agree, both the S5.4 and the S3.4 had a glare through the midrange that was not all that pleasant. The Sapphires were great in the mids and highs, but weak in the bass.

you need to hear the YG speakers. I have heard no speaker that reproduced bass better.

[Pedro]

woowww USD107K

[Orb]

you need to hear the YG speakers. I have heard no speaker that reproduced bass better.

Appreciate this is the B&W thread, what do you feel (like/dislike) about the Kipod main module?

Personally I know this may not appeal to most but I would really love a very high end large standmount (for smaller-medium room) from B&W that is in the serious high end bracket £10k to £15k, maybe something based upon the 802d marlan-teardrop design.

Cheers
Orb

[beden1]

woowww USD107K

Right, these esoteric kinds of speakers are extremely expensive, but, that is seemingly the only way he is going to be satisfied in the end. You don't get the level of excellence AV-OCD has been seeking...on a budget.

[AV-OCD]

great read !

and thats the thing tim, it is your choice in the end, no real need to justify to others mate. you'll be listening to it in the end. your not paying the cash for someone else to listen too :

While sometimes I feel like I'm on trial on these boards, I usually don't feel the need to justify what I'm doing. Rather, I like to share my experiences and thought processes with others that have my mutual interests so that we might learn something from one another.

Frankly, I find there are far too many generalizations made when posting and not enough meat behind what is being said.

"This component beats the crap out of that one, or this component is more musical than that one, or you have to spend X number of dollars to get good sound..."

What does all of that really mean? To me, it is just meaningless small talk.

So I might appear to over explain, or justify, but I just value descriptive open communication.

[AV-OCD]

Tim,

I thought you had everything on track with the Classe / Wilson Benesch system, only because the front end matched the speakers capabilities and vice versa. The Denon doesn't seem to be in the same league as Classe or McIntosh.

I have the 805/HTM4 paired with Rotel 10xx series gear and compared to the McIntosh system my dealer had his 805's hooked up to, the sound is night and day difference. They came alive on the Mc gear but with Rotel the 805 is too relaxed for my taste.

Do you think on the speakers you kept the performance level equal to its replacement but on the front end you compromised a bit to much?

Ken

Hi Ken –

Cost and pedigree vs. performance….. this is a very interesting point of discussion for me, but it can quickly become a tangled mess.

In short, within reason, I feel there are no strong ties between cost and performance. There is equal chance that you could find a component in the same price bracket as the Rotel that you like as much or better than the McIntosh. Just look at my recent blind testing experience with the Denon AVR5308 vs. the Primare SP32 + separate Primare 5 channel amp. The Primare system is made in Denmark, it has “audiophile credibility”, it costs substantially more than the Denon, and it is a “separates” system rather than an all-in-one. The Denon is an AVR made in Japan, it is mass produced, feature-laden (supposedly bad for sound quality), and “cheap” in the realm of the high-end. Yet, in a blind test, I consistently chose the Denon over the Primare separates, and for that matter, I also chose it over the “sound quality first” Arcam AVR. Also consider that when I compared the more expensive Arcam AVR600 to the lower model AVR500, I preferred the AVR500. So more money / higher-end model doesn’t guarantee subjectively better performance. Based on your comment that you find the Rotel is too relaxed with your 805s, the Arcam AVR600 might be just the ticket for you.

Now with that said, in my experience, McIntosh and tubed gear are different animals than SS gear, so moving to Arcam might not get you what you are after. You might need to look at something like Peachtree audio or Pathos, or one of the other affordable tube based offerings.

Back on the subject of Denon. To me, saying Denon is not capable of making components with excellent sound quality is like saying Honda can’t make a winning F1 race motor. While my experience with testing out AVRs vs. separates is limited, based on my recent blind test, it would suggest that when Denon wants to, they can hold their own with the “audio quality first” players. It can also be argued that Denon has much greater engineering resources and better buying power than smaller “audiophile” companies, and that at least theoretically they should be able to match or beat the performance of the competitors at a lower price. What I really want to do is a blind test between Classe and Denon.

When I bought the WB / Classe system, I knew that I was buying audiophile jewelery. I wanted a system that was as visually impressive as it was audibly pleasing. I got that. But I have also heard Dali Helicon speakers paired with modest Carver electronics that I liked as much overall and better in some areas (treble detail and extension were better on the Dali / Carver). And I’ve also been very impressed with Vienna Acoustics powered by a Denon AVR.

When I buy expensive speakers, I am willing to do so because they are out in the room and I still want something nice to look at / admire, and because I know that no speaker company is going to put their best drivers into a cheap box. That box, and the finish of that box probably accounts for 75% of the cost to build the speaker.

In the end, I think that each component has to be judged on its own merit and that we can’t assume that things like Classe or McIntosh will be automatically better sounding than something less expensive. You might have to hunt a bit more for that undiscovered gem, but if you are honest and objective (blind testing helps), you may just find what you are after at a lot less than you thought you had to spend.

Then the tough part comes. Can you face your Classe and McIntosh-owning peers, and all of those that aspire to own Classe / McIntosh and proudly say that you chose Denon? I’m not there yet, but I made some real progress the other day. Further investigation is needed.

[beden1]

Hi Ken –

Cost and pedigree vs. performance….. this is a very interesting point of discussion for me, but it can quickly become a tangled mess.

When I bought the WB / Classe system, I knew that I was buying audiophile jewelery. I wanted a system that was as visually impressive as it was audibly pleasing. I got that. But I have also heard Dali Helicon speakers paired with modest Carver electronics that I liked as much overall and better in some areas (treble detail and extension were better on the Dali / Carver). And I’ve also been very impressed with Vienna Acoustics powered by a Denon AVR.

I think this just says that you really liked the Dali Helicon speakers better than your WB speakers. What I would have done at that point, would be to audition the Dali Helicon speakers with your Classe gear.

I think the problem that myself and others have with your jumping around so quickly with your decision making, is that you are never at the point of comparing apples with apples. You sold all of your Classe gear that you were happy with, and tossed it all overboard because you were not thrilled with your speakers. Instead of throwing it all away, why didn't you keep the backbone of your system to be able to legitimately compare other speakers? While not doing that, you have no basis for your evaluation and are back to square one!

[AV-OCD]

I think this just says that you really liked the Dali Helicon speakers better than your WB speakers. What I would have done at that point, would be to audition the Dali Helicon speakers with your Classe gear.

I think the problem that myself and others have with your jumping around so quickly with your decision making, is that you are never at the point of comparing apples with apples. You sold all of your Classe gear that you were happy with, and tossed it all overboard because you were not thrilled with your speakers. Instead of throwing it all away, why didn't you keep the backbone of your system to be able to legitimately compare other speakers? While not doing that, you have no basis for your evaluation and are back to square one!

That is a fair criticism. Given better circumstances that is what I would have done. Unfortunately, one's plans vs. reality don't always match up.

Still, having lived with the Classe / WB system for over a year, I feel I have a good memory of what it sounded like, and I should know if I've achieved => performance with the right combo of less expensive gear.

[beden1]

That is a fair criticism. Given better circumstances that is what I would have done. Unfortunately, one's plans vs. reality don't always match up.

Still, having lived with the Classe / WB system for over a year, I feel I have a good memory of what it sounded like, and I should know if I've achieved => performance with the right combo of less expensive gear.

I don't want to create the impression here that I am being critical, only making an observation. I think you are setting yourself up for an impossible dream by listening to a variety of speakers through different systems and demo rooms. I don't think anyone would be successful tryng to accomplish much under those conditions.

[AV-OCD]

I don't want to create the impression here that I am being critical, only making an observation. I think you are setting yourself up for an impossible dream by listening to a variety of speakers through different systems and demo rooms. I don't think anyone would be successful tryng to accomplish much under those conditions.

I get that. Other than the recent swap from Classe/WB to Denon/BW, I have always left everything the same except for the one component I wanted to try to change. And even with this recent decision to part with the BWs, I auditioned other front end components to see if what was within my budget would affect the change I was after.

But part of the problem with finding the right fit is that the local shops have stopped allowing in-home auditions, so I have to make an educated guess based on in-store demos on what the next best step will be.

[audioqueso]

I don't want to create the impression here that I am being critical, only making an observation. I think you are setting yourself up for an impossible dream by listening to a variety of speakers through different systems and demo rooms. I don't think anyone would be successful tryng to accomplish much under those conditions.

Beden1, I don't think you're being critical, and I do agree with you, but AV-OCD (that's a funny name btw) makes it sound like this is literately his hobby. I mean, like he seems to enjoy moving around from item to item. Not so much for the "quest" or research to find the perfect setup, but more like... he has fun doing this... so... nothing really to say about that, is there? Anyone who isn't into audio stuff would ask any of us why do we bother with different cables or tweaking stuff or whatever, right? It's just fun for us. Am I wrong?

[Orb]

I don't want to create the impression here that I am being critical, only making an observation. I think you are setting yourself up for an impossible dream by listening to a variety of speakers through different systems and demo rooms. I don't think anyone would be successful tryng to accomplish much under those conditions.

Beden,
Tim has had many speakers for detailed demo purposes at his home and as he says only recently and I also say unfortunately replaced both the WB and Classe at same time, but that does not change the fact that he has experience of many speakers on the same source/amps in his room, including the Dali so I think your point is a wrong assumption.

Cheers
Orb

[wettou]

you need to hear the YG speakers. I have heard no speaker that reproduced bass better.

Try Focal Utopia III!! :B

[beden1]

But part of the problem with finding the right fit is that the local shops have stopped allowing in-home auditions, so I have to make an educated guess based on in-store demos on what the next best step will be.

That's the main problem with this hobby today. I hate to date myself, but back in the 1970's, there were typically three large home audio dealers per market representing numerous manufacturers . You literally could spend days (rainy day project) auditioning equipment at each one, and it was expected to use one of their demo rooms as your base for auditioning a large selection of anything you were looking for.

Today, the dealer base is dwindling, and so too their offerings. It's near impossible to make any sort of learned buying decision, much more than an educated guess. It's too bad, as those days just sitting back and listening, were really fun as well as educational.

[sikoniko]

That's the main problem with this hobby today. I hate to date myself, but back in the 1970's, there were typically three large home audio dealers per market representing numerous manufacturers . You literally could spend days (rainy day project) auditioning equipment at each one, and it was expected to use one of their demo rooms as your base for auditioning a large selection of anything you were looking for.

Today, the dealer base is dwindling, and so too their offerings. It's near impossible to make any sort of learned buying decision, much more than an educated guess. It's too bad, as those days just sitting back and listening, were really fun as well as educational.

that and dealer inventory is shrinking... makes it difficult even to evaluate in store...

[John22614]

I could'nt agree more......would be great if we could return to the days where you could audition multiple high end brands in the same store. I am very happy with my 804's, but would have loved to do a side by side with others like Vienna, Sonus, Monitor, Paradigm, etc. , before buying.

[Industrial]

That's the main problem with this hobby today. I hate to date myself, but back in the 1970's, there were typically three large home audio dealers per market representing numerous manufacturers . You literally could spend days (rainy day project) auditioning equipment at each one, and it was expected to use one of their demo rooms as your base for auditioning a large selection of anything you were looking for.

Today, the dealer base is dwindling, and so too their offerings. It's near impossible to make any sort of learned buying decision, much more than an educated guess. It's too bad, as those days just sitting back and listening, were really fun as well as educational.

Recently "start of this year" found a dealer who still does this locally. Who encourages listening to different systems in his shop. Allows me to demo stuff at home. And to spend time at his shop to discuss equipment while listening to music. Its refreshing and makes me feel like a kid in a candy store

[AV-OCD]

That's the main problem with this hobby today. I hate to date myself, but back in the 1970's, there were typically three large home audio dealers per market representing numerous manufacturers . You literally could spend days (rainy day project) auditioning equipment at each one, and it was expected to use one of their demo rooms as your base for auditioning a large selection of anything you were looking for.

Today, the dealer base is dwindling, and so too their offerings. It's near impossible to make any sort of learned buying decision, much more than an educated guess. It's too bad, as those days just sitting back and listening, were really fun as well as educational.

Hell, just five years ago the local high-end shops would do this.

[beden1]

Hell, just five years ago the local high-end shops would do this.

There is one dealer in Delaware that has a decent shop and selection, but nothing as compared to what I experienced "back in the day". Even in SE Florida now, there are very few shops that carry much of an assortment over having Classe, McIntosh and Marantz.

I'm talking about large shops having full line displays from 10+ electronics manufacturers for amps, pre-amps, tuners, and/or receivers, and 20+ speaker lines including those all the way up to the high end manufacturers. Plus carrying many, many source players like turntables, reel-to-reels, and, etc.

Now, all we can do is read about stuff like this in magazines, hopefully gain some insight from the Internet, or I guess try to catch a quick listen at a trade show.

[MikeFL52]

Today, the dealer base is dwindling, and so too their offerings. It's near impossible to make any sort of learned buying decision, much more than an educated guess. It's too bad, as those days just sitting back and listening, were really fun as well as educational.

This is absolutely true. Here in Orlando we are down to one and they will not do in home demos, they do not usually have much more inventory than that which is on the floor, so if you want anything you have to order it. They then actually charge you to drive 30 miles round trip to deliver the equipment (speakers for instance) :M .

I actually blame the Home Theater and installation market for some of this since it seems that any security installation business has set themselves up as an HT installer and fobs BOSE systems off on people. They have no store fronts at all.

Also internet purchases have an impact. There is a lot of overhead to have a store and then we as Joe Public expect the store to be competitive with the internet.

It is a general trend, where are the bakers, butchers, fishmongers (hell back in the UK we used to have a travelling fishmonger come round in his van every Friday)? Now we all go to a Publix, Krogers, or whatever.

Some brands (such as B&W) insist their big stuff is sold at close to retail price at a store and I for one hope they will continue to do so otherwise the remaining few stores that sell "high" end stuff will also disappear.

[alebonau]

~

But part of the problem with finding the right fit is that the local shops have stopped allowing in-home auditions, so I have to make an educated guess based on in-store demos on what the next best step will be.

well that does make it pretty tough.

when I bought my utopia divas I was wowed by them instore with same components but was fortunate that the dealer was understanding in the considerable investment and willing to let me demo them at home over an extended period before purchasing. We're very lucky I think in oz especially where I live where there are few specialist stores still willing to let people home demo before buying.

A lot of specialist stores are disappearing though with pressure from "box movers" and internet retailers. a worrying trend, can only hope the ones that do allow demoes hang around and their service seen as a point of difference. Though get the feeling this kind of thing valued less and less ...

ps one other thing to take advantage of is the forum community, dont know whats its like your way, but our home forum pretty strong that way. Have had a few people bring stuff over to check out in my system and I've doen the same at time taking gear over to try out their place. Nothing beats listening to stuff in your own context.

and yes pretty hard otherwise !

ps the world is full of compromises though, hopefully not looking for that perfect item. Because dont think really exists. there is always better. At times perhaps best to settle with what like best and if any imperfections be they slight consider them as part of the charecter of the piece :B
thats not to say shouldnt continue your quest. More power to you ! :T

[munchis]

Dynaudio C1 vs b&w 805Di

I'll by living with the Dynaudio C1s for a while before committing buying the center and surrounds.

It would be very interesting to know how you compare the Dynaudio C1's against the 805Di ! Please let us know your impressions when you get de C1s, it would be very appreciated.

[AV-OCD]

It would be very interesting to know how you compare the Dynaudio C1's against the 805Di ! Please let us know your impressions when you get de C1s, it would be very appreciated.

No problem. As to not clutter up the B&W forum with talk of other speakers, I'll provide a link to my thread over on AVS when I've had a chance to listen to the C1's for a while.

[style]

Hallo Tim,

From what I have understand Your speaker is the Focal Dialblo.

a great bookshelf speakek, much better as your "old" 1027be or similar...

good sound with the Denon and the JLSub make the resr ( but not much, the diablo go everywehre!!)


Omar

[AV-OCD]

Hallo Tim,

From what I have understand Your speaker is the Focal Dialblo.

a great bookshelf speakek, much better as your "old" 1027be or similar...

good sound with the Denon and the JLSub make the resr ( but not much, the diablo go everywehre!!)


Omar

The Focal are beatiful speakers, and I hear that they have a more forgiving sound than previous Be models, but I'm still very aprehensive about them. Besides, they are out of my budget, there is no center channel to match, and no wall mountable surrounds. :cry:

[style]

OK Tim,

The Diablo are "small" but not a surround speakers...

and if you can make a test with the 804d in the front?

but I think that is not your speaker.. the "english sound"...


The SonusFaber Luito have center and the "monitor with stand": the sound in not "hard" like the diamond: nice!

The dynaudio Focus linie is very good too but I prefer the S.Faber....
other? Yes, the Odeon!! go see...

http://www.odeon-audio.com/frameset_index.html

Omar

[AV-OCD]

OK Tim,

The Diablo are "small" but not a surround speakers...

and if you can make a test with the 804d in the front?

but I think that is not your speaker.. the "english sound"...


The SonusFaber Luito have center and the "monitor with stand": the sound in not "hard" like the diamond: nice!

The dynaudio Focus linie is very good too but I prefer the S.Faber....
other? Yes, the Odeon!! go see...

http://www.odeon-audio.com/frameset_index.html

Omar

I like the look of those Odeon stand mount speakers. That carved wooden wave-guide on the tweeter is very cool. I don't think that those speakers are available in the US though.

[munchis]

No problem. As to not clutter up the B&W forum with talk of other speakers, I'll provide a link to my thread over on AVS when I've had a chance to listen to the C1's for a while.

Thank you :T . We'll be waiting for that...just please make sure it does not take too long :W

[AV-OCD]

Thank you :T . We'll be waiting for that...just please make sure it does not take too long :W

Unlike the 2 month wait for the 805Di's, the C1's will arrive next Tuesday.

You can follow the progress here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1139308&page=15

[magicvinny]

I upgraded from the XT8 to the 805Di
My rear speakers are B&W in-ceiling speakers: 1 back surround(CCM80) and Left/Right surround are CDS3.
My question is what in-ceiling/in-wall speakers would be a better match for the 805Di's???

[AV-OCD]

Congrats Vinny! I hope they bring you years of enjoyment!

I don't know what to tell you on the IW IC speakers, since they don't make a diamond model in any of those lines.

[AwArEnEsS]

Great looking speakers,very beautiful!

[Ron526]

Enjoy the music!

[magicvinny]

I was thinking of maybe getting the B&W CCM 7.5. They have the same sensitivity as the 805Di, 88Db. They don't have diamond tweeters but I think those speakers could be the best (inceiling) match.

What do you guys think??

[AV-OCD]

I was thinking of maybe getting the B&W CCM 7.5. They have the same sensitivity as the 805Di, 88Db. They don't have diamond tweeters but I think those speakers could be the best (inceiling) match.

What do you guys think??

That series uses a soft dome tweeter. I would at least look for a model with the aluminum tweet, as that should be sonically closer in character to the Diamond tweet in your 805di's.

How about this one?

http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=4865

[magicvinny]

AV-OCD,


Thank you for your advice. You are right about the tweeter!!

The only problem is that I can't fit round speakers in the cut-out of the CDS3, they are rectangular :W

I found another speaker that may be suitable: CMW DS8

http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=2044

[AV-OCD]

AV-OCD,


Thank you for your advice. You are right about the tweeter!!

The only problem is that I can't fit round speakers in the cut-out of the CDS3, they are rectangular :W

I found another speaker that may be suitable: CMW DS8

http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=2044

You're on the right track, but that speaker is meant for side wall placement if you use it in dipole mode. If you use it in monopole mode in-ceiling, you are paying for a bunch of drivers you won't be using.

I believe this is your speaker:

http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=4849

It has the aluminum tweet (with nautilus tube like the 805), and 6" kevlar midrange with phase plug (also like 805).

[TYE]

I upgraded from the XT8 to the 805Di
My rear speakers are B&W in-ceiling speakers: 1 back surround(CCM80) and Left/Right surround are CDS3.
My question is what in-ceiling/in-wall speakers would be a better match for the 805Di's???

Two questions:

1. Who makes that media cabinet, Im looking for something like that and that finish.

2. What were your impressions of the xt8 versus the 805Di. I have been looking at xt8s as Ive come across several used sets, and am wondering if I should just hold out til i can afford the 805Di.

Thanks

[magicvinny]

Hey TYE,

1. The cabinet is from Verardo. Here is the website:

http://www.verardoitalia.it/

2. The XT8 are really great speakers!! I upgraded from the XT4 to the XT8 and difference was huge. I was also using the XTC as a center speaker but I was never really satisfied with that speaker. Especially now with the 805Di I'm not using the XTC anymore. The difference in sound quality from the 805di is to big.
If I were you i would wait untill I could buy the 805Di. They really sound exceptional!! The difference in price between the XT8 and 805Di is big to so....It's up to you :T

[TYE]

Would the 805di and htm4di sound decent with the rotel 15 series gear? I unfortunately had to sell my classe gear which I know would have matched much better but this time around the classe isn't in my price range. I'll ve doing 50/50 music and home theater.

[magicvinny]

I had the XT8 a few months, now I have the 805Di a few weeks. I have the opportunity to buy 802D(not Di) now.

Now I really don't know what to do :cry:

I have really good speakers but now I can buy the 802D.

What should I do??????

Is there a big big big difference between them??

[htsteve]

Would the 805di and htm4di sound decent with the rotel 15 series gear? I unfortunately had to sell my classe gear which I know would have matched much better but this time around the classe isn't in my price range. I'll ve doing 50/50 music and home theater.

Yes, that combination should sound very good together. Both the speakers and electronics would be current offerings. Rotel has one of the best price-performance ratio's going. It won't quite be Classe, but it will go along way towards it.

Hope this helps.

[TYE]

I had the XT8 a few months, now I have the 805Di a few weeks. I have the opportunity to buy 802D(not Di) now.

Now I really don't know what to do :cry:

I have really good speakers but now I can buy the 802D.

What should I do??????

Is there a big big big difference between them??

if you decide to sell the 805di, please let me
know