B&W 805 Diamond Unboxing

[AV-OCD]

Congrat's Tim - they do look superb in the piano black with your room decor. I'm sure many will want to know how the gloss finish works with screen reflection once you get your HTM4Di added in.


I would suspect B&W used Classe' gear to perfect the 805Di in their listening tests and I have a hunch you will be pairing your 805Di's with Classe' or similar gear again in the future.

Yes, they are gorgeous in gloss black. Though this finish choice is nothing new to me. The majority of the speakers I've owned in the past five years have been gloss something or another (though usually black). They are reflective, but it has never bothered me.

I'm certainly open to going back to Classe, though I'm going to give it some time, and I've always been fond of Primare, so I may give that a try first. Don't get me wrong, the sound I'm getting with the 805Di / Denon combo is still great, but it has more of that "recording studio" sound that lays everything out there vs the laid-back draw-you-in sound of my last system.

[AV-OCD]

Why would you sell a setup like the Wilson Benesch / Classe if it had such a natural sound? So few systems sound that way in my experience. Mindyou little things can change sound significantly and you may be right, all you need is the right setup. I just got a new sofa and it has taken some of the 3d and space out of my sound. I now understand why some folks have just one listening chair for 2 channel.

Not an easy question to answer, because this latest system change started off for one reason and then morphed into another. But part of it at least, is that for this to be a hobby, some change, experimentation and learning needs to happen. Even if that means giving up something very good only to take a few steps back before finding something different that is as good or better. While I really enjoyed the WB / Classe system, it was a bit too reserved / restrained at times. So far the B&W's are providing an exciting change in perspective that more vivid and forward (but never aggressive or harsh). And believe it or not, just while listening again today after calibrating the EQ, things have already gotten better.

[Orb]

Not an easy question to answer, because this latest system change started off for one reason and then morphed into another. But part of it at least, is that for this to be a hobby, some change, experimentation and learning needs to happen. Even if that means giving up something very good only to take a few steps back before finding something different that is as good or better. While I really enjoyed the WB / Classe system, it was a bit too reserved / restrained at times. So far the B&W's are providing an exciting change in perspective that more vivid and forward (but never aggressive or harsh). And believe it or not, just while listening again today after calibrating the EQ, things have already gotten better.

Ah that reminds me, personally I think the 80x series are very sensitive to positioning (meaning very slight changes make a noticable difference), including the angle of toe in/height/etc, more so than many other speakers IMO and definitely more so than the WB (that are room friendly).
Think it will take awhile to get the most out of the speakers just with this, and then of course you got the stand that will make a difference again.

Tim, keep us informed if changing position/angle provides a benefit.
Thanks
Orb

[AV-OCD]

Ah that reminds me, personally I think the 80x series are very sensitive to positioning (meaning very slight changes make a noticable difference), including the angle of toe in/height/etc, more so than many other speakers IMO and definitely more so than the WB (that are room friendly).
Think it will take awhile to get the most out of the speakers just with this, and then of course you got the stand that will make a difference again.

Tim, keep us informed if changing position/angle provides a benefit.
Thanks
Orb

Not much I can do with height because the stands are fixed height, but I'll see what I can do with the rest.

[wettou]

Revelation

I went to my dealer today and had an opportunity to listen to the 805Di 8O

I was blown away, I can why Tim decided to go that route, If I was downgrading I would definitely buy them they are amazingly good!!

He should receive the 802Di in a couple of weeks I can't wait to hear them!

[alebonau]

Not an easy question to answer, because this latest system change started off for one reason and then morphed into another. But part of it at least, is that for this to be a hobby, some change, experimentation and learning needs to happen. Even if that means giving up something very good only to take a few steps back before finding something different that is as good or better. While I really enjoyed the WB / Classe system, it was a bit too reserved / restrained at times. So far the B&W's are providing an exciting change in perspective that more vivid and forward (but never aggressive or harsh). And believe it or not, just while listening again today after calibrating the EQ, things have already gotten better.

system changes always take some getting used to, especially if your ears/mind gotten used to a certain sound. certainly some charecter differences between the brands. and especially mixing and matching can have some suprise results.

In my experience though speakers probably tend to have the largest impact in the overall charecter of the sound. And new speakers can ofter take a little while to settle in with driver surrounds working them selves in, capacitors in xovers settling down - this can often take a day or so !

re primare in my opinion some absolutely very well made gear. their pre30 I have demoed in my own system with my previous pseaker and foudn a little laid back / recessed/dark in its sound but perhaps a different propostion in a full primare system and different speakers, though again I would say the difference is more on the subtle side than say changes with speakers

if considering other electronics, certainly classe, electrocompaniet, nad master series, naim and musical fidelity have found to make for a nice pairing with 800 series - whether to your liking perhaps another matter ! :B

good luck with things !

[AV-OCD]

I went to my dealer today and had an opportunity to listen to the 805Di 8O

I was blown away, I can why Tim decided to go that route, If I was downgrading I would definitely buy them they are amazingly good!!

He should receive the 802Di in a couple of weeks I can't wait to hear them!

As impressed as I was with the 805Di's in the short time I spent with them on demo at the showroom, I'm really beside myself after listening to them throughout the day today. The resolution and the imaging is just incredible. I've had this experience with only one other speaker before (though not in my room), but listening to these 805Di's is like watching HDTV for the first time. I'm listening to some electronic music right now that has about 37 layers of sounds being thrown at me, and every single one is separate from the rest, swirling around the room in a panoramic soundstage-- incredible. And now that the 805Di's are being supported by my JL sub, with the EQ calibrated, it really doesn't get much better, IME.

Well, the sub integration still needs a bit of work, but that is easy enough to do with Room EQ Wizard and an hour of playing with crossover settings, level, and phase.

[AV-OCD]

system changes always take some getting used to, especially if your ears/mind gotten used to a certain sound. certainly some charecter differences between the brands. and especially mixing and matching can have some suprise results.

In my experience though speakers probably tend to have the largest impact in the overall charecter of the sound. And new speakers can ofter take a little while to settle in with driver surrounds working them selves in, capacitors in xovers settling down - this can often take a day or so !

re primare in my opinion some absolutely very well made gear. their pre30 I have demoed in my own system with my previous pseaker and foudn a little laid back / recessed/dark in its sound but perhaps a different propostion in a full primare system and different speakers, though again I would say the difference is more on the subtle side than say changes with speakers

if considering other electronics, certainly classe, electrocompaniet, nad master series, naim and musical fidelity have found to make for a nice pairing with 800 series - whether to your liking perhaps another matter ! :B

good luck with things !

After tonight, things have already changed enough for the better that I'm not nearly as concerned with the Denon. I don't know if it is just me getting used to the sound, or the drivers loosening up a bit, but it doesn't sound smoother than just a couple of days ago.

BTW - you and I definitely think along the same lines when it comes to the pecking order of audio components.

In regards to Primare, I've heard that the pre30 is a bit laid back, but supposedly their new processor does not share that trait. But again, I'm in no rush, and I might hold out until they have an EQ option.

[wettou]

As impressed as I was with the 805Di's in the short time I spent with them on demo at the showroom, I'm really beside myself after listening to them throughout the day today. The resolution and the imaging is just incredible. I've had this experience with only one other speaker before (though not in my room), but listening to these 805Di's is like watching HDTV for the first time. I'm listening to some electronic music right now that has about 37 layers of sounds being thrown at me, and every single one is separate from the rest, swirling around the room in a panoramic soundstage-- incredible. And now that the 805Di's are being supported by my JL sub, with the EQ calibrated, it really doesn't get much better, IME. Well, the sub integration still needs a bit of work, but that is easy enough to do with Room EQ Wizard and an hour of playing with crossover settings, level, and phase.

The thing I like about the 805Di are the fact that a clean 100W amp will drive them beautifully

[btf1980]

I went to my dealer today and had an opportunity to listen to the 805Di 8O

I was blown away, I can why Tim decided to go that route, If I was downgrading I would definitely buy them they are amazingly good!!

He should receive the 802Di in a couple of weeks I can't wait to hear them!

Yup. They are the real deal! :T

[Brian482]

AV-OCD

4 805Di's and the HTM4 Center. Though, from what I've been told, the HTM4 is at least a month away from being available.


My company got our display HTM4 last week, so I would think it would be possible to get one soon. And it looks really nice.

[Maarten]

Nice speakers!

Only I would be afraid to even touch those nice black paint. It will always get dirty with dust or fingers...

I'm still waiting for my DB-1 sub to arrive. The dealer said that it will arrive end may or june

[AV-OCD]

My company got our display HTM4 last week, so I would think it would be possible to get one soon. And it looks really nice.

Good to hear. I hope that is true.

[wettou]

Ok here we go 7 805Di with a JL Audio F113

17,500 + 3,500 = 21,000

or

two 800Di

[Brian482]

AV,

What are your compontents?

I'm actually thinking about getting a set of 805Ds myself, trying to figure out if I want 5 channel or just 2, might just start with 2 then move on.

[AV-OCD]

AV,

What are your compontents?

I'm actually thinking about getting a set of 805Ds myself, trying to figure out if I want 5 channel or just 2, might just start with 2 then move on.

I used to have the Classe SSP-800 and CA5100 amp, but this system build was supposed to be more of a budget audiophile system. So the Classe is gone and I'm using a Denon AVR5308. The whole system is new, so I'm still undecided on the Denon, but last night the pairing sure brought a smile to my face.

[wettou]

I used to have the Classe SSP-800 and CA5100 amp, but this system build was supposed to be more of a budget audiophile system. So the Classe is gone and I'm using a Denon AVR5308. The whole system is new, so I'm still undecided on the Denon, but last night the pairing sure brought a smile to my face.

Classé SSP-800 a budget Audiophile at $9000 that is some "budget"

When I think about budget I am thinking Emotiva not Classé

[AV-OCD]

Classé SSP-800 a budget Audiophile at $9000 that is some "budget"

When I think about budget I am thinking Emotiva not Classé

I think you misunderstood. Classe is not budget, the Denon I got to replace the Classe is.

[wettou]

I think you misunderstood. Classe is not budget, the Denon I got to replace the Classe is.

Oh sorry, I feel better.

[stuofsci02]

I think you misunderstood. Classe is not budget, the Denon I got to replace the Classe is.

Still the Denon MSRP is $5,500.... I don't know if that is budget, although I assume you paid significantly less...

[wettou]

Still the Denon MSRP is $5,500.... I don't know if that is budget, although I assume you paid significantly less...

Well that is 40% off the Classé just for processor:B

[alebonau]

Still the Denon MSRP is $5,500.... I don't know if that is budget, although I assume you paid significantly less...

certainly no budget avr, its denons flagship, In my country its deemed an AVC-A1HD, so in the A range ! :B

tim, does the 805D have a back plate as such, or nothing else on the back but the speaker terminals ?

also what off their underneaths, think you mentioned they have threaded mounting points to attach to the matching stand ?

how have you got them setup ie distance between them, distance to back wall, have you been finding particularly susceptible to location ?

[AV-OCD]

Still the Denon MSRP is $5,500.... I don't know if that is budget, although I assume you paid significantly less...

I agree, but when in the company of Classe, to most, Denon anything is "budget". :roll:

[wettou]

I agree, but when in the company of Classe, to most, Denon anything is "budget". :roll:

Well you know at least it's not Mark Levinson N502 $35,000 :B or Meridian 861 $23,000

[AV-OCD]

certainly no budget avr, its denons flagship, In my country its deemed an AVC-A1HD, so in the A range ! :B

tim, does the 805D have a back plate as such, or nothing else on the back but the speaker terminals ?

also what off their underneaths, think you mentioned they have threaded mounting points to attach to the matching stand ?

how have you got them setup ie distance between them, distance to back wall, have you been finding particularly susceptible to location ?

Hi Al -

No back plate, just the speaker terminals--gorgeous ones at that.

The bottom has a brushed metal model / serial number plate and two screw inserts for attaching the speaker to the dedicated stands.

Current set-up is 7 feet apart, 3 feet from the back wall, two feet from the side wall on the right, and 5 feet from the side wall on the left. I haven't played with position much, as I want to wait until I get the matching stands. At that time I will pull-out Room EQ Wizard to measure the response of the speakers in different locations to find the location with the smoothest frequency response.

[beden1]

I agree, but when in the company of Classe, to most, Denon anything is "budget". :roll:

It's not the cost of an item, it's how it performs. :roll:

[AV-OCD]

It's not the cost of an item, it's how it performs. :roll:

Well I'm happy to say that now that I've calibrated the Audyssey EQ, the Denon is performing beyond my expectations. That somewhat grainular quality that I mentioned a few posts back is now all but gone. Looking at the Audyssey correction results, it seems that I was getting somewhat overzealous treble from the 805Di's in my room, which was resulting in a slightly over-etched sound. Audyssey has taken care of that nicely.

I had a very impressive listening session last Saturday while my wife was out with some friends. :T

[alebonau]

Hi Al -

No back plate, just the speaker terminals--gorgeous ones at that.

The bottom has a brushed metal model / serial number plate and two screw inserts for attaching the speaker to the dedicated stands.

Current set-up is 7 feet apart, 3 feet from the back wall, two feet from the side wall on the right, and 5 feet from the side wall on the left. I haven't played with position much, as I want to wait until I get the matching stands. At that time I will pull-out Room EQ Wizard to measure the response of the speakers in different locations to find the location with the smoothest frequency response.

thanks tim, if get a chance while fitting to the new stands would very much appreciate if could post a couple pics showing mounting points and underneath very curious how they attach to the stands. its not something the 805s had unless am wrong !

no back plate would give it some very nice clean lines/look all around I reckon.

look forward to reading how you go re positioning and measurements.

Well I'm happy to say that now that I've calibrated the Audyssey EQ, the Denon is performing beyond my expectations. That somewhat grainular quality that I mentioned a few posts back is now all but gone. Looking at the Audyssey correction results, it seems that I was getting somewhat overzealous treble from the 805Di's in my room, which was resulting in a slightly over-etched sound. Audyssey has taken care of that nicely.

I had a very impressive listening session last Saturday while my wife was out with some friends. :T

good to hear the denon is performing beyond expectation and that audyssey has helped the situation. yeah rooms can have quite a massive impact to the overall sound. so excellent that eq has made up for things for a good result.

[AV-OCD]

Al -

Your wish is my command. :W

[alebonau]

awesome tim ! good on you for posting, that really is pretty neat how they have the mounting points setup with base plate inset

[wettou]

It's not the cost of an item, it's how it performs. :roll:

But of course, I heard the Grand Utopia 3 ($180,000) powered with Burmester Electronics ($200,000)

It was nice but to be honest I liked my 802Ds powered with Classé just as much :B

Of course I would never think of spending 500K for a stereo

[Orb]

But of course, I heard the Grand Utopia 3 ($180,000) powered with Burmester Electronics ($200,000)

It was nice but to be honest I liked my 802Ds powered with Classé just as much :B

Of course I would never think of spending 500K for a stereo

That is possibly because you are not a banker with banker bonuses hehe :lol:
Ah the joys for those who are I guess.

Cheers
Orb

[JargonGR]

Hehe I went to audition the smaller Utopias and the dealer insisted that I should have a look at the Grand ones but I said no! Damn I think I will go back and have another session.


However, wettou tell me something please:

- Do you think that going from my 800Ds to the Grand Utopias would be an out of this world experience? Not that I am thinking of it and sure I can't but is there such a huge improvement given the huge price difference?

What is your view just out of curiosity?

[Industrial]

But of course, I heard the Grand Utopia 3 ($180,000) powered with Burmester Electronics ($200,000)

It was nice but to be honest I liked my 802Ds powered with Classé just as much :B

Of course I would never think of spending 500K for a stereo

Bah, when I went from Yamaha electronics and technics speakers to Rotel/B&W (with a Rega P5 and Benchmark DAC1 as sources) I heard a HUGE difference in SQ. Since then Ive been to Audionote shows ($100,000+) and yes I heard a difference but not the huge gap I heard before.
Those days I went back home and still enjoyed my setup.

Hey, out of curiosity how would people here rank Bryston vs Classé? My philosophy for systems is have the system as transparent as possible and let my sources "color" the sound.

[wettou]

Hehe I went to audition the smaller Utopias and the dealer insisted that I should have a look at the Grand ones but I said no! Damn I think I will go back and have another session. However, wettou tell me something please: - Do you think that going from my 800Ds to the Grand Utopias would be an out of this world experience? Not that I am thinking of it and sure I can't but is there such a huge improvement given the huge price difference?

What is your view just out of curiosity?

Yes, they where very nice but I didn't get a chance to compare them side by side so from memory yes the Grand where better but was it better than the Symphony Hall I don't think so

Also It was not 10 time better maybe 10% more if that! Plus you need a really big room the room size had 24 feet ceilings and was 30 x 30. I still was about seven feet from them and felt like an ant as there are very imposing.

[beden1]

Yes, they where very nice but I didn't get a chance to compare them side by side so from memory yes the Grand where better but was it better than the Symphony Hall I don't think so

Also It was not 10 time better maybe 10% more if that! Plus you need a really big room the room size had 24 feet ceilings and was 30 x 30. I still was about seven feet from them and felt like an ant as there are very imposing.

A friend of mine has the Grand Utopias and they sound great. He feels they are worth the money everytime he turns on his system, and that's all that really matters.

For him, the money is the secondary consideration.

[AV-OCD]

805Di build quality - impressive

I'm a stickler for build quality and I have a thing for authenticity. If one is going to pay a premium for something, it should not only have top notch performance, it should be built to a higher level, and no detail should be left unturned. Likewise, if a speaker is being marketing as a high-end offering, it should live up to all of the expectations that go along with that. It is surprising how often corners are cut even in very expensive speakers.

One of my pet peeves is the use of wood screws to mount the drivers into MDF. It is quite common, and even the $16K a pair of Revel Studio2's I owned took this approach. It may be functionally fine (until you over-tighten them), but it is the quick and dirty way to mount a driver. The right way to do it is to to fit the face of the speaker with threaded inserts and use machine screws to fasten the drivers to the cabinet.

I took the liberty of removing one of the screws from the face of the mid-bass driver on the 805Di and I was relieved to see that they have used machine screws. Its sad that this should make me more satisfied with my purchase, but it does.

And everything about the speaker is built to this level. Custom binding posts; custom binding post cup; custom jumpers; custom ports; metal driver trim rings to give the face of the driver a finished appearance; a glass-smooth finish; Mundorf's best Silver/Gold caps; magnetic grill attachments to hide the attachment point when the speaker is "naked"; a cast metal tweeter enclosure; and of course the man made diamond tweeter. Even all of the screw heads are painted gloss black. No detail has been overlooked. All of these things inspire pride of ownership and support the high-end price of admission.

Whether or not someone feels the sound quality matches the price is subjective, but at least you can't argue that the fit and finish don't live up to the expectation for a speaker of this caliber.

[alebonau]

those pictures you posted Tim, proves that out re the build, fit and finish and attention to detail. Though am sure all this a lot more evident when checking it out in the flesh as you so luckily can do

to be honest the 805s though had a soft spot for, found to be outclassed by a few other options not only in sound but build and fit and finish as well. Something the 805D certainly appears to have made quite a few strides forward with. Hopefully something get to check out for my self in person at some stage.

[sskim]

I'm a stickler for build quality and I have a thing for authenticity. If one is going to pay a premium for something, it should not only have top notch performance, it should be built to a higher level, and no detail should be left unturned. Likewise, if a speaker is being marketing as a high-end offering, it should live up to all of the expectations that go along with that. It is surprising how often corners are cut even in very expensive speakers.

One of my pet peeves is the use of wood screws to mount the drivers into MDF. It is quite common, and even the $16K a pair of Revel Studio2's I owned took this approach. It may be functionally fine (until you over-tighten them), but it is the quick and dirty way to mount a driver. The right way to do it is to to fit the face of the speaker with threaded inserts and use machine screws to fasten the drivers to the cabinet.

I took the liberty of removing one of the screws from the face of the mid-bass driver on the 805Di and I was relieved to see that they have used machine screws. Its sad that this should make me more satisfied with my purchase, but it does.

And everything about the speaker is built to this level. Custom binding posts; custom binding post cup; custom jumpers; custom ports; metal driver trim rings to give the face of the driver a finished appearance; a glass-smooth finish; Mundorf's best Silver/Gold caps; magnetic grill attachments to hide the attachment point when the speaker is "naked"; a cast metal tweeter enclosure; and of course the man made diamond tweeter. Even all of the screw heads are painted gloss black. No detail has been overlooked. All of these things inspire pride of ownership and support the high-end price of admission.

Whether or not someone feels the sound quality matches the price is subjective, but at least you can't argue that the fit and finish don't live up to the expectation for a speaker of this caliber.

I couldn't agree with you more. It's all about details. Functionality alone just doesn't cut it at this level.

[magicvinny]

How would you compare the XT8 to the 805D?
I have the PV1.
100% HT.

[AV-OCD]

How would you compare the XT8 to the 805D?
I have the PV1.
100% HT.

Sorry MagicVinny, the XT series is one speaker line that I have not heard. But I can't imagine they would even come close to having the resolving power of the 805Di. The 805Di's are second to none in this area of performance, as compared to the dozen or so high-end speakers I've owned prior.

Even with HT, which for some reason people often discount as needing a lesser speaker, I find that when you have a high resolution speaker, there is an increase in the space and dimension of the sound track / special effects that increases the "wow factor" above a speaker that will simply play loud.

[sikoniko]

how would you compare this setup to your W/B / Classe system?

[AV-OCD]

how would you compare this setup to your W/B / Classe system?

They are two different types of sound that I appreciate for different reasons. The WB / Classe was organic, somewhat laid back, and an easy listen. But I have to say that I wished for a bit more at times. The WBs also lost a lot of life at low volumes and I found that I really needed to be in the dead center sweet spot to get a solid center image.

The BW / Denon combo is more detailed, maybe bordering on dry / analytical, but in that high quality "studio monitor" sort of way. The sound reminds me of Genlecs in this regard. This system isn't as kind to lesser quality recordings as the WBs, but the BWs also don't render these tracks unlistenable. The BW / Denon combo is more vivid, exciting and fun, sometimes at the expense of being completely beleivable (I wonder if keeping the Classe would have changed this). The BW /Denon projects the music out at you, while the WB/Classe would draw you in. Which reminds me BTW, I mentioned that the 805's sounded a bit recessed through the mids on the Rotel. They don't sound that way at all on the Denon. The BWs are better at imaging and they have a stable center image off-axis thsn the WBs. The size of the soundstage is equal between the BW and WB, which is to say great!

So, two different perspectives, but neither is better or worse.

[sikoniko]

They are two different types of sound that I appreciate for different reasons. The WB / Classe was organic, somewhat laid back, and an easy listen. But I have to say that I wished for a bit more at times. The WBs also lost a lot of life at low volumes and I found that I really needed to be in the dead center sweet spot to get a solid center image.

The BW / Denon combo is more detailed, maybe bordering on dry / analytical, but in that high quality "studio monitor" sort of way. The sound reminds me of Genlecs in this regard. This system isn't as kind to lesser quality recordings as the WBs, but the BWs also don't render these tracks unlistenable. The BW / Denon combo is more vivid, exciting and fun, sometimes at the expense of being completely beleivable (I wonder if keeping the Classe would have changed this). The BW /Denon projects the music out at you, while the WB/Classe would draw you in. Which reminds me BTW, I mentioned that the 805's sounded a bit recessed through the mids on the Rotel. They don't sound that way at all on the Denon. The BWs are better at imaging and they have a stable center image off-axis thsn the WBs. The size of the soundstage is equal between the BW and WB, which is to say great!

So, two different perspectives, but neither is better or worse.

so.. for the sake of science... how long will you keep the Denon, what will you get next, and will you not trade out your entire system the next time!?!?!

[AV-OCD]

so.. for the sake of science... how long will you keep the Denon, what will you get next, and will you not trade out your entire system the next time!?!?!

I'm not in a rush to change out the Denon, but it is the only thing that I forsee as a possible place for change in the future. But I need to find a way to get the Classe on loan or something comparible. The local dealer is not very accomodating, and will not loan out equipment though. Which is what makes this hobby so tough. A lot of the time, I have to buy what I think will work best and sell it off if it doesn't work out.

I didn't intend to sell everything off at once, but when I'm dealing with the whims of other people's interest in the gear I have for sale on Agon, you got to sell it when you get the chance. But I will certainly try to stagger things a bit better the next time I make a system change. :roll: