New B&W serie 800 !!!

[wettou]

I just called my dealer here in BC and the MSRP of the new 802D is $16,500 Canadian compared to $16,000 for the old 802D. Not much of an increase in Canada but I guess this reflects the stronger Canadian dollar.....hmmm my dealer gave me a healthy 30% discount on my 804S's 3 years ago I wonder how much discount he would give me on the 802D's :lol:

30% off whoa that is unheard of especially since they get 40 points

[RebelMan]

Is it worth upgrading!

It is to early to tell but I know that I will not be making any changes to my system whatsoever.

It may not be readily apparent but B&W is implicitly going back to their roots with the new series. The 800s were never intended to entertain the Home Theater (HT) enthusiast.

In the early to mid 90's market trends and demanding consumers pushed B&W into the high performance HT market. At the time B&W didn't have a dedicated system in the pipeline so they adapted the existing series to fill in the gap. Since then B&W has had time to learn what it was going to take to make a high-end HT system work well. They also had time to learn how to adapt to various domestically tranquil environments without incurring significant disruptions to making good sound. These motivations are what encouraged B&W to breath life into what has now become the CT and CI series of HT products. While not the top of the line 800s these dedicated HT products are now more capable than ever of providing decent 2CH performance without breaking the bank and/or ones lifestyle. The new 800 series is really only intended for the most discriminating listeners that want to milk the best from their stereo systems. That’s how it was intended from the start and is becoming more so once again.

Since I am stuck with very few options for integrating a high performance 2CH and MCH/HT system into the same space with the fewest tradeoffs possible, there is just no way the new series can be adapted to my environment while simultaneously providing any gains for the effort.

[wettou]

It is to early to tell but I know that I will not be making any changes to my system whatsoever. It may not be readily apparent but B&W is implicitly going back to their roots with the new series. The 800s were never intended to entertain the Home Theater (HT) enthusiast.

In the early to mid 90's market trends and demanding consumers pushed B&W into the high performance HT market. At the time B&W didn't have a dedicated system in the pipeline so they adapted the existing series to fill in the gap. Since then B&W has had time to learn what it was going to take to make a high-end HT system work well. They also had time to learn how to adapt to various domestically tranquil environments without incurring significant disruptions to making good sound. These motivations are what encouraged B&W to breath life into what has now become the CT and CI series of HT products. While not the top of the line 800s these dedicated HT products are now more capable than ever of providing decent 2CH performance without breaking the bank and/or ones lifestyle. The new 800 series is really only intended for the most discriminating listeners that want to milk the best from their stereo systems. That’s how it was intended from the start and is becoming more so once again.

Since I am stuck with very few possibilities for integrating a high performance 2CH and MCH/HT system into the same space with the fewest tradeoffs, there is just no way the new series can be adapted to my environment while simultaneously seeing any gains for the effort.

I hear you one room for both so it has to be multifunctional. I am curious did you ever write your review for the SSP-800?

I acquired one and could not be happier :T

[dan87951]

Just to give a comparison between the two rosenut 802 models

I really like the new rosenut finish. Reminds me of the red cherry finish that was offered for the Nautilus line!

[JargonGR]

It is to early to tell but I know that I will not be making any changes to my system whatsoever.

It may not be readily apparent but B&W is implicitly going back to their roots with the new series. The 800s were never intended to entertain the Home Theater (HT) enthusiast.

In the early to mid 90's market trends and demanding consumers pushed B&W into the high performance HT market. At the time B&W didn't have a dedicated system in the pipeline so they adapted the existing series to fill in the gap. Since then B&W has had time to learn what it was going to take to make a high-end HT system work well. They also had time to learn how to adapt to various domestically tranquil environments without incurring significant disruptions to making good sound. These motivations are what encouraged B&W to breath life into what has now become the CT and CI series of HT products. While not the top of the line 800s these dedicated HT products are now more capable than ever of providing decent 2CH performance without breaking the bank and/or ones lifestyle. The new 800 series is really only intended for the most discriminating listeners that want to milk the best from their stereo systems. That’s how it was intended from the start and is becoming more so once again.

Since I am stuck with very few options for integrating a high performance 2CH and MCH/HT system into the same space with the fewest tradeoffs possible, there is just no way the new series can be adapted to my environment while simultaneously providing any gains for the effort.

It seems that for us users of the HTM1D there is no upgrade path offered if you care that is. I mean changing my 800Ds would result in an unmatched HTM1D that would be nice if B&W offered new drivers and crossover but yeah....dream on.

[Antus]

i remembered i read it somewhere that the chief desigher went to Japan and saw a lot of the Japanese user took off the plastic bullet and replaced them with a solid copper CNC machined bullet. Those copper bullet was not cheap, but Japanese people were sware by them.

the designer found it interesting and bought couple of them back to UK, and found there were indeed some sounic improvement. it reduce the turbulance air sound of midrange. plus, the sound is more focused and more solid.

b&w then include a solid bullet in avery new (and now old) D series.

the signnature diamond goes even further with air chanber at the bottom of the bullet to help guiding away the air. plus, it is longer with a polished apperance.

Is that an aluminum bullet in the mid-range?Wondering if it is, would B&W sell them for those desiring them?It's about the only thing I like of the new revision.
I read in a post that B&W admitted that the aluminum bullet did improve the midrange sound.But couldn't explain why.

[Antus]

i would think HTM4 Diamond match better with Signature Diamond. both are 2 way speaker. with similier sensibility.
have you try DB1 sub? I haven't heard one yet, but i would think it is a better match for Signature Diamond and 800 series.

Hi there and Happy New Year to Everyone!

I have a set of Signature Diamond Speakers and am purchasing another set for my surrounds. I was intending on using this as a 4.1 system but am wondering now, with the addition of the gloss black finish, if the HTM2D would not be a welcome addition for a 5.1 system? The finish of my Signature Diamond is the wakame. Do you think that the HTM2D would look/sound good ?
Thanks
ljs1228
P.S. My sub is a PV1 and I am also considering getting a second one of those as well. The pictures of my system are in the B and W site on page 58 or so.

[BassThatHz]

I'm curious about the quad-mag tweeter, considering that field strength is inversely proportional to squaring of the distance differential. Especially since tweeters only have a 3mm coil length space to work with.

I'm not liking the smaller circular flowport all that much.
Looks like they reduced the size of the dustcap on the woofers, to reduce the mass?

The metal rings look good in black, but in wood finish it just doesn't mix IMO.

The metal phase-plug should be a polished-alu/chromed/etc design like the Sig-Di.

What I was hoping for... :B
1) A return of some new hand-painted Signature finishes.
2) Tri-woofers for the 904D
3) A tri-wiring option for all floorstanders
4) 4-way design for 903D, 902D with mid-bass and woofer combo, silver-coated neodymium phase plugs
5) A true piston-mid for the 900D with Nautilus tube, and external defeatable cross-overs with XLR & unbalanced filter-package option.

[bwsound]

I really like the new rosenut finish. Reminds me of the red cherry finish that was offered for the Nautilus line!

The new rosenut isn't any different from the old series. The pictures B&W provided are just computer generated models, so no real color can be seen from them. The life-style photos on the other hand do represent the color, and they look identical to me, see pic below.

And Rebelman also clearified this.

As I have stated previously the veneers are procured from IDENTICAL sources and only one factory moved. The other remained.

Se for yourself, 804s vs 804d

[Orb]

i would think HTM4 Diamond match better with Signature Diamond. both are 2 way speaker. with similier sensibility.
have you try DB1 sub? I haven't heard one yet, but i would think it is a better match for Signature Diamond and 800 series.

I just want to add that when considering sensitivity its going to be a nightmare to match and I feel for you ljs1228.
The reason I am suggesting it will be a nightmare is that the sensitivity measurement is not that accurate, because sensitivity is averaged from the whole frequency range 20hz to 20khz, and the way it is averaged is not ideally done.
One of the magazines last year covered this subject and thankfully or funny enough they used the Signature diamond as their primary example.
The difference from say 10khz to 15khz and 1khz to 4khz is in region of 3db to 5db for the Sig diamond, even then this is not smooth and has many peaks and troughs through the whole frequency range.

It is more than likely this sensitivity varies a fair bit between Sig diamonds and the various 800 series.

ljs1228, you could email B&W support and see what they come back with as the best solution.

Cheers
Orb

[ak77]

I am loving the new 800 series...for silver rings, silver/chrome plated plugs, new air flow port...Bowers&Wilkins name insted of B&W in the bottom. the whole package is very nice. Keeping price out of consideration for now...they are extremely desirable..more than the current range I would say .. assuming they at least sound the same or better than the current series.

802D.... :drool:

Andy

[sikoniko]

I did ask the B&W rep why they did not offer an active crossover option on the 800 series. He said that it ultimately came down to catering to the lowest common denominator - even at the 800 Diamond price range. Those are my words, not his.

[emig5m]

For the massive price increase and to help attract current 804 owners (N and S) that still care to have a smaller footprint and to provide more of an upgrade to the speaker, this is what the 804D should of looked like IMO:



Keep the nice small and skinny footprint (don't base it off the 803S - too close to the 803D footprint) and add another woofer for three per cabinet just like the 803D had over the 803S. That would of made the 804S to 804D more worthwhile IMO. I think for people like me with the N804 or 804S would want more of an upgrade to the speaker than just adding the diamond domes considering the dramatic price increase of the model...

I know, kinda moot for some people who just crossover to their powered sub(s) anyway (which I do). But for the price increase they could, and should of, provided a little more of an upgrade inline with how the 803S was to the 803D model to give a little more ooomph for total 2-channel purists who just want a simple high performance 2-channel/2 speaker system in a small footprint. Just tell me my photoshopped mini 803D doesn't look sharp? lean, and mean. :twisted:

[Race Car Driver]

I reallllllly like the 803D. that 3rd woofer does it for me.

[Relentless]

Picked up the HTM1D today and I talked to my dealer about what he thinks about the new line. He is not thrilled, they will make small changes and now the dealers have to liquidate there stock of the old series and repurchase the line again. I told him sorry I don't feel the need to up grade my 800D's and he replied of coarse not how much better can the new ones sound. I can see why he is a little harsh with the way business is going for luxury items like high end audio.

[KyaDawn]

Congrats on the HTM1D! If they start going on sale (doubtful), I would surely consider one now that they have become almost collector's items! :B

[1oldguy]

I think at the end of the day it's about our perception.Which is that the newest is the greatest.Those new woofers certainly don't make feel all warm and giddy.The out going series of the 800 line has a much more robust look.OF course they would have the new woofers designed ever so slightly different.It's just got to be better right?Then it only makes sense to change the number of screws or placement so it can't be a straight retrofit for existing speakers.IMHO it's more smoke and mirrors so you feel what you have isn't good enough anymore,so buy more.Think about it.
As for me I'm not buying it and I'm not buying into it.

[JoeBob]

Do you think new 802d fronts and a new htm2d center with the current asw855 sub and 803s's in rear would sound ok and look ok in rosenut? Or do feel you would need to swap out all pieces to get the right sound and look?

[1oldguy]

I can't see you having a problem in all honesty sound wise.As for the looks that would be your call.

[wettou]

I think at the end of the day it's about our perception.Which is that the newest is the greatest.Those new woofers certainly don't make feel all warm and giddy.The out going series of the 800 line has a much more robust look.OF course they would have the new woofers designed ever so slightly different.It's just got to be better right?Then it only makes sense to change the number of screws or placement so it can't be a straight retrofit for existing speakers.IMHO it's more smoke and mirrors so you feel what you have isn't good enough anymore,so buy more.Think about it. As for me I'm not buying it and I'm not buying into it.

It is always hard to change when the only changes are small cosmetics.. If the sound is much better then it might be worth it...

[Highroller]

Curious, I am not liking the piano black. I would like to upgrade my fronts and center but there is no black ash. Wonder if Rosenut for fronts and center would look ok with black ash sub and other speakers (rear and surrounds). Thoughts?

[KahunaCanuck]

I think that would look fine...Rosenut works best with the black ash imho...I had black 805s as rears and it let them actually blend in more...

[Relentless]

I think that would look fine...

agreed

[Highroller]

This may be some dumb questions but want to confirm as I am considering buying new 802 diamonds before I have heard them (I guess no one has heard them at this point though). I also have the opportunity to buy a current 802D as well. So I am trying to decide which way to go.

Cost is not an issue as I am wanting the best speaker. Four questions:

- If the prices for the current 802D and the new 802 Diamond were exactly the same (theoretically) would there ever be a reason to buy the current 802D over the new 802 Diamond?
- Has there ever been a speaker upgrade with B&W that was viewed as not as good as the previous model?
- Is there any possibility the new 802 Diamond would not sound better than the current 802D?
- Is it better to go with the current 802D that has the strong track record, or the new 802 Diamond that hasn't been heard?

I realize that B&W would only be putting out a speaker they considered better, but I am wondering if they have ever missed the mark from the consumers perspective....

[KyaDawn]

5.1 B&W 800Ds,HTM2D, 803Ds, SVS PC13 Subs x2, SVS AS EQ1, Classe SSP800, Mc501s x 2, MC303, Denon BD3800, JVC RS2 PJ, Dalite 119" Screen, Cat Cables throughout.

2.1 B&W 805s, REL 305 Sub, Musical Fidelity KW500 Int, KW25 Transport & DAC, Marantz TT15S1, Wadia 170 Ipod Dock, Cat Cables.

You have TWO amazing B&W set-ups! :T

[sikoniko]

Curious, I am not liking the piano black. I would like to upgrade my fronts and center but there is no black ash. Wonder if Rosenut for fronts and center would look ok with black ash sub and other speakers (rear and surrounds). Thoughts?

I have red cherry for my front 3 speakers and black ash for the black four. I think it works, but I was planning on getting black ash for the center and rosenut for the l/r just to accentuate them... guess things will have to change.

[KyaDawn]

This may be some dumb questions but want to confirm as I am considering buying new 802 diamonds before I have heard them (I guess no one has heard them at this point though). I also have the opportunity to buy a current 802D as well. So I am trying to decide which way to go.

Cost is not an issue as I am wanting the best speaker. Four questions:

- If the prices for the current 802D and the new 802 Diamond were exactly the same (theoretically) would there ever be a reason to buy the current 802D over the new 802 Diamond?
- Has there ever been a speaker upgrade with B&W that was viewed as not as good as the previous model?
- Is there any possibility the new 802 Diamond would not sound better than the current 802D?
- Is it better to go with the current 802D that has the strong track record, or the new 802 Diamond that hasn't been heard?

I realize that B&W would only be putting out a speaker they considered better, but I am wondering if they have ever missed the mark from the consumers perspective....

It's always dangerous to speculate as like you said, no one has heard a proper demo of the line at a dealer yet, but I would be very surprised if B&W would put out a speaker that was "inferior" to its previous line. It could be possible that the enclosures, now with the factory moved to the UK from Denmark, might not be as good as the "D" series, but that's a big "if".

Overall, I think if you haven't invested in the "D" line, then there is little reason why you shouldn't consider the "Diamonds". The 802 Diamond is only $1K more than the 802D, so price isn't really the issue. Unless you really dislike the silver rings, wanted black ash, or perhaps wanted a perfect timbre-match with the HTM1D, I would say the 802 Diamond would be a safe bet, and would probably hold its resale value a bit better given that it's a brand-new model.

That said, we really won't know until we've HEARD the 802 Diamond. Who knows, it could be the "changes" are not to everyone's liking or there has been some fundamental modifications to the sound. The safest route for you would be to listen to them first, ideally in an A/B test with the 802Ds, and make your decision from there. I'm assuming A/B testing won't be difficult in the coming months when the dealers still have the 802Ds in stock.

One other issue is whether you are building a stereo or multi-channel system. The Diamond range has far less options for centers and surrounds, and the minimum you will be spending for a pair of surrounds has now increased to $5K. Maybe not an issue for you, but something to consider nevertheless.

[Kal Rubinson]

- If the prices for the current 802D and the new 802 Diamond were exactly the same (theoretically) would there ever be a reason to buy the current 802D over the new 802 Diamond?
- Has there ever been a speaker upgrade with B&W that was viewed as not as good as the previous model?
- Is there any possibility the new 802 Diamond would not sound better than the current 802D?
- Is it better to go with the current 802D that has the strong track record, or the new 802 Diamond that hasn't been heard?

Until we have heard the new ones for a while, no one can really answer your questions.

[wettou]

Until we have heard the new ones for a while, no one can really answer your questions.

Kal, When are you getting your evaluation speakers
- 802 Diamond,
- 800 Diamond

I was always curious about the fact that you evaluated 800D and 802D and bought 802Ds ?

[KyaDawn]

Kal, When are you getting your evaluation speakers
- 802 Diamond,
- 800 Diamond

I was always curious about the fact that you evaluated 800D and 802D and bought 802Ds ?

Another question for Kal is if you like the 804 Diamonds, would you consider replacing your 804S surrounds with them?

[Race Car Driver]

My overall thoughts so far.

Love the new grill design, getting rid of the small grill holes in the cabinet, as minute as that is, IMO its HUGE for the looks of the speaker.

I like the cleaner look of the new mounting holes of the speakers, however I like the "beafier" look of the older dust caps.

I like how the port area is "cleaned up" looks a bit nicer for the price of the speaker. I always thought the "tear drop" looked cheap. Too much plastic on speakers that cost over 1k each.

Silver rings. 50/50. Could live with em, could live without them. Dont really care either way. I think they look good, and would still look good without them.

No B&W "tag" on the front. Hrm.. I kinda like the B&W, simple, classic. Not trying to be "classy" like it looks now. But dont hate the way it is now.

Piano Black option? YES! Love the OPTION to have it. Many have been asking about it for years and its finally here! There have been a few threads about it in the past, "wish they offered it" etc. Glad they do! I think piano black looks GREAT! Sure keeping them looking good is more work, yea it wont be for everyone or every situation, but when its done right it doesnt look bad. This isnt a "cheap" piano black like the box store sell, I am sure it looks just as good as the marlan heads of the Nautilus series.

Price increase? If its anywhere near what people are saying, I say boo! 20k 802s. Thats kinda crazy IMO. The good thing? I suppose it helps keep market value of the older lines.

Anytime there is a change made to a loved line in anything, you wont please everyone, but yet I am suprised to read about alot of the nitpiking that is going on.

Of course, all the above is my opinion. As expected, yours will vary.

[Kal Rubinson]

Kal, When are you getting your evaluation speakers
- 802 Diamond,
- 800 Diamond

I was always curious about the fact that you evaluated 800D and 802D and bought 802Ds ?

I never reviewed the 800Ds, just the previous N800 Sigs.

[Blindamood]

Love the new grill design, getting rid of the small grill holes in the cabinet, as minute as that is, IMO its HUGE for the looks of the speaker.

I like the cleaner look of the new mounting holes of the speakers, however I like the "beafier" look of the older dust caps.

I like how the port area is "cleaned up" looks a bit nicer for the price of the speaker. I always thought the "tear drop" looked cheap. Too much plastic on speakers that cost over 1k each.

Silver rings. 50/50. Could live with em, could live without them. Dont really care either way. I think they look good, and would still look good without them.

No B&W "tag" on the front. Hrm.. I kinda like the B&W, simple, classic. Not trying to be "classy" like it looks now. But dont hate the way it is now.

Piano Black option? YES! Love the OPTION to have it. Many have been asking about it for years and its finally here! There have been a few threads about it in the past, "wish they offered it" etc. Glad they do! I think piano black looks GREAT! Sure keeping them looking good is more work, yea it wont be for everyone or every situation, but when its done right it doesnt look bad. This isnt a "cheap" piano black like the box store sell, I am sure it looks just as good as the marlan heads of the Nautilus series.

Price increase? If its anywhere near what people are saying, I say boo! 20k 802s. Thats kinda crazy IMO. The good thing? I suppose it helps keep market value of the older lines.

Anytime there is a change made to a loved line in anything, you wont please everyone, but yet I am suprised to read about alot of the nitpiking that is going on.

Of course, all the above is my opinion. As expected, yours will vary.

Actually, I pretty much agree with everything you said! The only thing I would add is my disappointment in the loss of the SCMS from the lineup.

I do believe, however, that I will continue to enjoy my current setup even more now...glad I was able to 'complete' it before the new line (and substantial cost increase) was introduced. FYI, my setup includes the 805S, HTM4S, and SCMS -- all in Natural Cherry.

[1oldguy]

For those who play guitar/bass there is usually two types of coatings applied.One is nitrocellulose the other polyurethane.While some others are bare wood.
The two types of plastics used do indeed change the character of the tone.Which is why some go bare wood so the sound inst hampered.
My concern if I were interested in the new 800 series covered in piano black(in other words plastic) would be the effect however slightly,would make in the listening experience.I'm sure it would be a small departure from sound in it's purity, but none the less the motto of B&W is,"to loose the least" isn't being strictly adhered to.
Based on the use of this shinny plastic I would have to go either rosenut or cherry if I were buying at this point,based on puriety of sound.Not going to happen,but wanted to throw it out there for those who are the verge of making a new purchase.

[Skyblue]

Just talked to my dealer here i Denmark. He said Piano and Rosewood finishes would be available in march, and cherry in may. May is a looong looong way away

[JargonGR]

I am really glad I also snatched a pair of SCMS just before they disappear since this was the only speaker in the 800 series that is suitable for Dolby Prologic IIz or height channel use in general.

Right now as someone else pointed out there is not surround speaker in the line and even if one does not care about the cost of 805D, still they are not suitable for wall mounting.

Should I suppose that B&W does not care for HT anymore? I am not space limited and I use 803Ds (4X) as my surrounds but if someone needs wall mounted speakers?

[wettou]

I am not space limited and I use 803Ds (4X) as my surrounds but if someone needs wall mounted speakers?

Very nice 4 803Ds What do you have in front 3 800Ds?

[WelshOne]

Is there any info on the new sub at all please?

An idea on UK pricing would be great?

Thanks

[William]

Very nice 4 803Ds What do you have in front 3 800Ds?

He has the now special HTM1D as his center. :T

[JargonGR]

Hehe yes the HTM1D and I love. I am using a projector and I didn't want the screen that high as to allow for an 800D hence the HTM1D.

Nonetheless, I think I am done with speakers for some years to come.

[Ryx]

For those who play guitar/bass there is usually two types of coatings applied.One is nitrocellulose the other polyurethane.While some others are bare wood.
The two types of plastics used do indeed change the character of the tone.Which is why some go bare wood so the sound inst hampered.
My concern if I were interested in the new 800 series covered in piano black(in other words plastic) would be the effect however slightly,would make in the listening experience.I'm sure it would be a small departure from sound in it's purity, but none the less the motto of B&W is,"to loose the least" isn't being strictly adhered to.

1oldguy you are talking apples and oranges here. a guitar/bass it designed to resonate to amplify the sound of the vibrating strings and the different coatings you are talking about can dampen the resonation changing the sound of the guitar.

these speakers however are designed not to resonate at all as resonation will color the sound taking away from its purity. if the new coating were to have any effect other then aesthetics witch I highly doubt it does, it would be for the better assuming it added damping to the enclosure.

[wettou]

Hehe yes the HTM1D and I love. I am using a projector and I didn't want the screen that high as to allow for an 800D hence the HTM1D. Nonetheless, I think I am done with speakers for some years to come.

Sweet yes I hear you plus as we get older our ability to hear as well is diminished so who cares after 60

[Kal Rubinson]

Is there any info on the new sub at all please?

I do not think it is new but, rather, the DB1 that was introduced at CEDIA last Fall.

http://www.bwgroupusa.com/soundbytes/download-files/DB1_Leaflet_LR.pdf

Kal

[Mark-n-b]

Is there any info on the new sub at all please?

An idea on UK pricing would be great?

Thanks

I emailed B&W some weeks ago asking that very question (and UK availability), and would you believe I have lost the email! However I *think* they said it would be about £3,500.

[Hammie]

I emailed B&W some weeks ago asking that very question (and UK availability), and would you believe I have lost the email! However I *think* they said it would be about £3,500.

The DB-1 is $4500 USD, as an FYI.