New B&W serie 800 !!!

**wettou** · 12 January 2010, 14:44 Tuesday

Originally posted by bwsound

Just to give a comparison between the two rosenut 802 models

Whoa that is really dark, not my cup of tea how about the Cherry! I like the fact that you don't have the holes to put the grid are they using magnets I assume?

**dan87951** · 12 January 2010, 14:48 Tuesday

looks like the new series doesn't have as many screws as the old series to hold the bass drivers in... interesting. Seems like extra two screws would definitely help with sealing a little better.. guess this was a cost cutting measure?

**wettou** · 12 January 2010, 14:50 Tuesday

Originally posted by dan87951

looks like the new series doesn't have as many screws as the old series to hold the bass drivers in... interesting. Seems like extra two screws would definitely help with sealing a little better.. guess this was a cost cutting measure?

Increased profit margins

No I think it is just design

**1oldguy** · 12 January 2010, 14:57 Tuesday

The color in the previous rosenut was much more attractive.It's would be interesting to see a side by side of the Cherry.

**bwsound** · 12 January 2010, 14:57 Tuesday

Next...

**aarsoe** · 12 January 2010, 15:00 Tuesday

Is it just me or does the bass units look different? Like the center of the unit is more recessed? In terms of the wood, my 802D's look similar to the new diamonds cherry. So guess it is up to the individual unit - or depending on if you got an early or late model of the "D's"

**1oldguy** · 12 January 2010, 15:04 Tuesday

Also of interest it looks as if at the bottom of the revised edition there is no bottom plate.Looks as if the wood of the cabinet touches the floor.
I also like the look of the flow port in the previous version.It gave the speaker character.Clearly if I had to some up the vibe is gone.
The Cherry wood appears very washed out.

**ryan.devry** · 12 January 2010, 15:05 Tuesday

The video on the B&W site that shows some of the assemble for the 800 series is pretty cool..Aside from the lame commentary...Some of the fabrication methods they outline were interesting (I had never seen how they form the Cabinets until I watched the video)...Just a random comment.....

**1oldguy** · 12 January 2010, 15:08 Tuesday

Is that an aluminum bullet in the mid-range?Wondering if it is, would B&W sell them for those desiring them?It's about the only thing I like of the new revision.
I read in a post that B&W admitted that the aluminum bullet did improve the midrange sound.But couldn't explain why.

**kaitkei** · 12 January 2010, 15:10 Tuesday

Hello,

I am a long time B&W fan, although I have never owned any, I have lusted after them for many years. I am now at a time in my life that these new 802 Diamonds are a definite possibility for me, although the price is a major consideration obviously. I am curious to find out what the Canadian retail is on these new 800's.

An observation I wanted to point out with regards to the driver mounting. It looks as though the six mounting holes are to hold the metal trim ring in place only. If you look here http://bwgroup.keycast.com/default.a...110&infid=4613 there are still eight mounting points for the woofer itself. This would also explain how B&W "recessed" the driver into the cabinet which I think gives the speaker a much cleaner look along with the missing grill holes. The grills also look to "hug" the cabinet better because of this. :T

With the talk of the realigned bass and completely new double magnet system on the woofers, I am hoping that the 802 and 800's will now dip into the 20Hz range at -3db. That would be very nice if they did and I think that they will. :W

**bwsound** · 12 January 2010, 15:24 Tuesday

I don't think the studio pictures from the B&W site aren't as representive as the real life ones. See for yourself and thank God for that...

**Orb** · 12 January 2010, 15:29 Tuesday

Originally posted by aarsoe

Is it just me or does the bass units look different? Like the center of the unit is more recessed? In terms of the wood, my 802D's look similar to the new diamonds cherry. So guess it is up to the individual unit - or depending on if you got an early or late model of the "D's"

Yeah definitely seems to be different on woofers, looks like more of a redesign than just the two magnets (makes sense).

Also, you notice how there is different gap measurements between each of the three drivers (804 comparison photo) ?
Mid,woofer,woofer, and lowers the port flow.

Cheers
Orb

Edit:
Oops realised photo is 804 comparison not 803, changed post

**stuofsci02** · 12 January 2010, 15:30 Tuesday

Yes... I was about to suggest this..

The photos are clearly computer generated out of a 3D Studio program. As a result I don't think you can pay much attention to the color, reflection etc..

**bwsound** · 12 January 2010, 15:44 Tuesday

The color difference definitely had to do with some artifical after effects, the color difference isn't as big as in some earlier pictures I've posted. An old 804s versus new 804d picture...

**wettou** · 12 January 2010, 16:03 Tuesday

Much better I kind of am starting to like the look very clean

**Ken49r** · 12 January 2010, 16:03 Tuesday

Originally posted by bwsound

Next...

The veneer is different in the photos. The newer one looks artificial compared to the previous series. I wonder if they are using a different veneer, possibly due to the factory leaving Denmark?

Maybe there is more as to why they are not offering the black ash this series but chose to blame it on low sales?

**bwsound** · 12 January 2010, 16:10 Tuesday

Originally posted by Ken49r

The veneer is different in the photos. The newer one looks artificial compared to the previous series. I wonder if they are using a different veneer, possibly due to the factory leaving Denmark?

Maybe there is more as to why they are not offering the black ash this series but chose to blame it on low sales?

It just has to do with the pictures they provided, the colors clearly don't match the real life version, which can be seen here and here...

**ljs1228** · 12 January 2010, 16:27 Tuesday

Centre Speaker for Signature Diamond

Hi there and Happy New Year to Everyone!

I have a set of Signature Diamond Speakers and am purchasing another set for my surrounds. I was intending on using this as a 4.1 system but am wondering now, with the addition of the gloss black finish, if the HTM2D would not be a welcome addition for a 5.1 system? The finish of my Signature Diamond is the wakame. Do you think that the HTM2D would look/sound good ?
Thanks
ljs1228
P.S. My sub is a PV1 and I am also considering getting a second one of those as well. The pictures of my system are in the B and W site on page 58 or so.

**wgriel** · 12 January 2010, 16:44 Tuesday

Originally posted by Orb

Yeah definitely seems to be different on woofers, looks like more of a redesign than just the two magnets (makes sense).

Yes - the old ones have that "mushroom" construction, while it appears the new bass drivers have a smaller dust cap in place.

**Hammie** · 12 January 2010, 17:23 Tuesday

Originally posted by Ken49r

The veneer is different in the photos. The newer one looks artificial compared to the previous series. I wonder if they are using a different veneer, possibly due to the factory leaving Denmark?

Maybe there is more as to why they are not offering the black ash this series but chose to blame it on low sales?

The new ones look computer generated. I think the pics that btf1980 are a better representation of real life looks.

**beden1** · 12 January 2010, 17:30 Tuesday

It looks like B&W changed their bass drivers away from the Rohacell® cone bass drivers. The new ones look just like the bass drivers in my A/D/S 910's that I bought new in 1976.

The Rohacell® cone bass drivers demand power as they are hard to drive, but once fired up, they sound great and are very strong.

Maybe the new ones are more efficient and require less juice.

I don't know about the new ones, but I really like my black ash 803Ds just like they are. The veneer on the new ones look cheap, without showing the dynamic grain that are on mine.

**bwsound** · 12 January 2010, 17:31 Tuesday

Originally posted by louhamilton

The new ones look computer generated. I think the pics that btf1980 are a better representation of real life looks.

You can see the difference clearly in this picture Left picture is computer generated, the other is taken in real life

**sikoniko** · 12 January 2010, 17:34 Tuesday

Originally posted by beden1

It looks like B&W changed their bass drivers away from the Rohacell® cone bass drivers. The new ones look just like the bass drivers in my A/D/S 910's that I bought new in 1976.

The Rohacell® cone bass drivers demand power as they are hard to drive, but once fired up, they sound great and are very strong.

Maybe the new ones are more efficient and require less juice.

I don't know about the new ones, but I really like my black ash 803Ds just like they are. The veneer on the new ones look cheap, without showing the dynamic grain that are on mine.

still using Rohacell®.

**sikoniko** · 12 January 2010, 17:36 Tuesday

I think a bit of skeptisism is good, but I think we are nit picking a bit much... I have yet to see two pairs of veneered speakers that are not black that look consistently the same. the wood is from the same forrest they have been using.

BTW, for thos interested, I did ask why they got rid of red cherry, and the response was that it was painted on, and they prefer the stained look.

**Ken49r** · 12 January 2010, 17:46 Tuesday

Originally posted by sikoniko

BTW, for thos interested, I did ask why they got rid of red cherry, and the response was that it was painted on, and they prefer the stained look.

That answers my question why cherry looks so different in the new series. Has a blondish look rather than orange tint.

**1oldguy** · 12 January 2010, 17:51 Tuesday

Originally posted by sikoniko

I think a bit of skeptisism is good, but I think we are nit picking a bit much... I have yet to see two pairs of veneered speakers that are not black that look consistently the same. the wood is from the same forrest they have been using.

BTW, for thos interested, I did ask why they got rid of red cherry, and the response was that it was painted on, and they prefer the stained look.

Don't know if you caught my earlier post about b&W admitting that the aluminum midrange bullet sounding better?It is possible you could find out if the new aluminum bullets will fit in the previous midranges from the 800 series?
Easy upgrade if it does.

**William** · 12 January 2010, 17:58 Tuesday

So why are there only 6 screws holding the woofers in the new 802's instead of 8? :E While 8 may be overkill, reducing to 6 can't be an improvement.

**Ken49r** · 12 January 2010, 18:02 Tuesday

Originally posted by William

So why are there only 6 screws holding the woofers in the new 802's instead of 8? :E While 8 may be overkill, reducing to 6 can't be an improvement.

See post #595

**RebelMan** · 12 January 2010, 18:06 Tuesday

Originally posted by KyaDawn

The 803S is not a "stand-mount" speaker! :B The 805 Diamond is $5K, I believe, but for your purposes, the 804 Diamond seems a better fit. A little bit above your budget, though. The 803S seems like it would be a good bet if you can find it.

Next to the 800D the 803S was without question the best tonally balanced speaker in the current (I guess old now) line. I am very enthusiastic about the work that has been done to the 805 Diamond and to a slightly lesser extent the 804 Diamond. It has been long overdue and they are my personal faves of the new series from an engineering stand point.

**RebelMan** · 12 January 2010, 18:08 Tuesday

Originally posted by Ken49r

The veneer is different in the photos. The newer one looks artificial compared to the previous series. I wonder if they are using a different veneer, possibly due to the factory leaving Denmark?

Maybe there is more as to why they are not offering the black ash this series but chose to blame it on low sales?

As I have stated previously the veneers are procured from IDENTICAL sources and only one factory moved. The other remained.

**RebelMan** · 12 January 2010, 18:14 Tuesday

Originally posted by bwsound

I find it strange that B&W still hasn't updated the official site with the new 800 series. We want to see the specifications, how the new drivers are made, what exactly is done to the crossover, etc. I want the facts...

They had some material at the show but nothing for public consumption (i.e. for the taking). It is forth comming though.

**wettou** · 12 January 2010, 18:20 Tuesday

Originally posted by Ken49r

See post #595

The 802N had 6 screws

**RebelMan** · 12 January 2010, 18:21 Tuesday

Originally posted by aarsoe

One thing that I like about the new series is how much more cleaner they look without the cover on the bass units. The "old" 802D's had a much more rough look with screws being more visible compared to the new mounting.

Yes, I agree. The old series look more rugged and the new series look more elegant.

**RebelMan** · 12 January 2010, 18:23 Tuesday

Originally posted by 1oldguy

I prefer the more rugged look myself.

Ditto

**RebelMan** · 12 January 2010, 18:34 Tuesday

Originally posted by Ken49r

Agreed.

The omission of black ash is my biggest concern with the new series. The silver rings would look just as nice on the black ash. IMO piano black makes cheaper components look expensive, and probably why so many Def-Tech speakers fly out of places like BestBuy. They can't offer a better looking wood veneer at the same price. I chose my 800's in black ash because the grain of the wood was one of the best I've ever seen. Piano black is used on everything today from computers to toasters. It's a fad that will lose it's luster in years and I surely don't want to spend $24,000.00 on plastic looking speakers.

I would prefer B&W offer the customer a choice in blacks as JL Audio does.

There are a few things to keep in mind when B&W selects their finishes. They are in a global market and need to cater to the needs of most individuals within those markets. For instance in the US B&W sells more Rosenut speakers than any other finish. In the UK Cherrywood has been by far the most popular. I don't know how Black (satin or gloss) fits into the global picture but I am certain they did some research prior to settling on one or the other. I do know from their business model that they have to limit the number of color options they make available. It's no different for any other manufacture that spends time and money on wood/laqure based finishes. Wilson Audio's auto body finishes does not apply in the same vein plus there are steep premiums to have that option.

**wildmda** · 12 January 2010, 18:35 Tuesday

So rosenut from current to new will not be a match?

Is this a strategic move on b&ws part to get you to buy all new?

**wettou** · 12 January 2010, 18:38 Tuesday

Originally posted by wildmda

So rosenut from current to new will not be a match? Is this a strategic move on b&ws part to get you to buy all new?

You got it it is called repeat customers :T

**RebelMan** · 12 January 2010, 18:46 Tuesday

Originally posted by aarsoe

Is it just me or does the bass units look different? Like the center of the unit is more recessed? In terms of the wood, my 802D's look similar to the new diamonds cherry. So guess it is up to the individual unit - or depending on if you got an early or late model of the "D's"

The bass drivers have changed somewhat.

**wettou** · 12 January 2010, 18:47 Tuesday

Originally posted by RebelMan

The bass drivers have changed somewhat.

Is it worth upgrading!

**RebelMan** · 12 January 2010, 18:49 Tuesday

Originally posted by 1oldguy

Is that an aluminum bullet in the mid-range?Wondering if it is, would B&W sell them for those desiring them?It's about the only thing I like of the new revision.
I read in a post that B&W admitted that the aluminum bullet did improve the midrange sound.But couldn't explain why.

Yes it is. In the previous series a black aluminum phase plug was included for those that wanted to remove the Marlan FST grill and the black plastic phase plug that supported it. And yes they are compatible between series. Not sure why you would want brushed aluminium though. Black seems to be a better fit for the rugged appearance we share.

**ShadowZA** · 12 January 2010, 18:50 Tuesday

Originally posted by ljs1228

Hi there and Happy New Year to Everyone!

I have a set of Signature Diamond Speakers and am purchasing another set for my surrounds. I was intending on using this as a 4.1 system but am wondering now, with the addition of the gloss black finish, if the HTM2D would not be a welcome addition for a 5.1 system? The finish of my Signature Diamond is the wakame. Do you think that the HTM2D would look/sound good ?
Thanks
ljs1228
P.S. My sub is a PV1 and I am also considering getting a second one of those as well. The pictures of my system are in the B and W site on page 58 or so.

Thanks for the new year wishes, ljs1228. May 2010 be a good one for you too.

Without having heard the HTM2D (outgoing) in combination with the Sig Diamonds it is not easy to answer your question. Here's a try though.

What can be said is that it would not be a perfect match due to the inherent differences between both types of speaker. For example the Sig Diamonds have a sensitivity of 88dB whilst the HTM2D is rated at 90dB. You would need to attenuate your signal to the HTM2D somewhat (in your processor settings) in order to achieve volume matching over your front end. Another difference is that the midrange drivers are different. The Sig Diamonds employ a 7 inch driver which is not an FST unit. The HTM2D employes a 6 inch FST midrange driver.

What is important to understand is that in multichannel surround sound (movies included here) the most important speaker is your centre. The reason is that it is utilized to output vocals and thus forms the most critical component concerning soundstage coherency. If it is not properly matched (and by this I mean voiced to match) then it will most certainly "take away" and impact negatively on the overall sound that your front end produces. Whether this is material (significant) to you, only you would be able to determine.

The best centre speaker for your setup would be another Sig Diamond. Understandably it might not be practical to go this route though, unless height & spacing issues are not problematic for you.

An idea might be for you to try to get your supplier to lend you an HTM2D for a few days for you to try out in your system. In this way you would be able to self determine. This is the ultimate true test.

I am not able to advise regarding the color matching (Wakame, with Belgian Black marble tweeter vs Piano black) ... sorry.

Good luck though and please let us know what you decide to do.

**RebelMan** · 12 January 2010, 18:55 Tuesday

Originally posted by kaitkei

An observation I wanted to point out with regards to the driver mounting. It looks as though the six mounting holes are to hold the metal trim ring in place only. If you look here http://bwgroup.keycast.com/default.a...110&infid=4613 there are still eight mounting points for the woofer itself.

I suspect that is a driver for a different cabinet they are showing. See the 804/803 drivers and compare them to the 802/800 to see the difference.

**style** · 12 January 2010, 19:00 Tuesday

Hi,

the color I think is only a "photo" effects..."live" will be the same rosenut,....

is like the Rotel, the new 15series: in Internet are not the same color but live they are the same...

with the new piano black is nice for the first 2-3 month after will be always
"fat - dirty "....
I have a notebook in the same piano black and after a pair mail "the nice black is a "fat black!!! after 3 months of shiny black becomes black dirt :W ------------------------

The stand from the new 805D are the same today used for the 805S.
well the stand are at home now we wait the 805D :W

Style

**RebelMan** · 12 January 2010, 19:03 Tuesday

Originally posted by sikoniko

BTW, for thos interested, I did ask why they got rid of red cherry, and the response was that it was painted on, and they prefer the stained look.

Actually it was stain but to them it looked like it was cheaply painted.

**SPACEMANRICK** · 12 January 2010, 19:23 Tuesday

Originally posted by kaitkei

Hello,

I am a long time B&W fan, although I have never owned any, I have lusted after them for many years. I am now at a time in my life that these new 802 Diamonds are a definite possibility for me, although the price is a major consideration obviously. I am curious to find out what the Canadian retail is on these new 800's.

An observation I wanted to point out with regards to the driver mounting. It looks as though the six mounting holes are to hold the metal trim ring in place only. If you look here http://bwgroup.keycast.com/default.a...110&infid=4613 there are still eight mounting points for the woofer itself. This would also explain how B&W "recessed" the driver into the cabinet which I think gives the speaker a much cleaner look along with the missing grill holes. The grills also look to "hug" the cabinet better because of this. :T

With the talk of the realigned bass and completely new double magnet system on the woofers, I am hoping that the 802 and 800's will now dip into the 20Hz range at -3db. That would be very nice if they did and I think that they will. :W

I just called my dealer here in BC and the MSRP of the new 802D is $16,500 Canadian compared to $16,000 for the old 802D. Not much of an increase in Canada but I guess this reflects the stronger Canadian dollar.....hmmm my dealer gave me a healthy 30% discount on my 804S's 3 years ago I wonder how much discount he would give me on the 802D's :lol:

New B&W serie 800 !!!

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