Rock N Roll Speakers?

[Opus007]

Just wondering which B&W speakers you own or have owned that you consider the best for rock.I own the 683's and a lot has been been posted about them not being very good speakers to which I totally disagree.They are very revealing and do exceptionally well for jazz and classical music.And also do fairly well for rock but tend to reveal any imperfection of bad recordings.When I listen to rock I like that thump and slam to be present and though the 683's do have some thump and slam I feel there could be more and what thump and slam there is does not seem to be present except at high volumes.
The upgrade bug is biting and am considering anything from the 803's down.But at this point am just researching for the future.I know that with a upgrade my electronics will need a upgrade but am just curious what others think.I do like jazz and easy listening but rock is my main concern.Or does B&W make a good rock speaker?

[Relentless]

deleted

[altanpsx]

683's are very good budget speakers. Bu they are not coherent, they lack of balance and also bass is uncontrolled. But for the price, do not consider this negative sides.

I think 703's are the best for the rock. They are very different from the other b&w's. They play very forward, their bass is very tight and controlled. You should listen 703's.

[Briz vegas]

It really comes down to what you want out of a speaker, and I think you have given us two preferences. Jazz sounds great on B&W but it is not really a brand that seems to move alot of air unless you have decent sized drivers (is that a no brainer) which means 802 or similar. On the other hand, the 703 has been regularly described as the rocker of the brand in the past. That may be the case but it did not scream energy and rock to me when I heard it, not like others that I have heard anyway.

I suggest you visit a Naim dealer and have a listen to the Allae. Apart from JBLs and some old old Altec/Lansings with 15 inch drivers, those Naims are the most rocking speakers that I have heard that still manage to sound decent. Even at very modest levels in a biggish room I still felt the beat despite their modest size. Allaes sit at about the 703 price point. Naim speakers are a love/hate thing for some but this speaker just screamed fun when I heard it, even digging up a the timing in classical music that made it swing (I couldn't work that one out either). .............sorry, I have posted similar in the past, bit of a broked record, I should get out and hear some more speakers

[audioqueso]

704/703

[Pedro]

Well if possible to get some used 801 like: Matrix 801, or N801 etc.... Could be the best option

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShjHpv9KGek&feature=channel_page

The 801´s are the best for playing rock and metal,. they play loud don´t lacking any info or dynamic, detailed at same time without any fatigue!! 703 is the brightest B&W and even have a tight bass they dont have so much bass for drum and bass.

[atchudy]

what about nautilus 803?

[dknightd]

with 683 and dual subs you should be able to thump pretty well. Of course you will not feel the thump unless you turn them up, but, that is the nature of the thump (at least for me).

It could be a setup issue - maybe the subs and 683 phase are not set to match well?
It could be a seating/room issue - does the bass sound different if you sit someplace else in the room?
It could be natural hearing variation - most peoples hearing looses bass response when the volume is low - maybe your preamp has a "loudness" button, or similar?
It could be you like more bass than normal - does your preamp have a "bass" control?

You might also benefit by more available amplifier power. Sometimes these speakers just need more available current than you would think.

Or maybe more capable subs - Are you using subs for music?

I use b&w 703. I listen to lots of different kinds of music, including some rock.
I've got lots of bass traps in my room to help even out the bass. The 703 can give me enough slam, but again only where appropriate. If I want more bass there are places to sit or stand that can deliver. Or I can push buttons or turn knobs. I haven't heard the 683, but it should be capable of putting out about the same bass volume as the 703, maybe not quite as tight, and maybe that quick kick at the start of a thump is what you are looking for.

Did you recently buy all this stuff? Have you played at all with positioning both speakers and listeners in your room? Have you measured your seating position to see if has huge bass cancellations?

Unless your room is huge, your current speakers should be able to give you the "thump" you want. If you a want a speaker that is less able to show the imperfections in some recordings, don't go up the B&W line - usually the better speaker, the more revealing it is.

It is good you are thinking about this in advance. I suggest you "play" with what you have before spending any more money. In the meantime listen as many systems as possible. Try to borrow some gear for in home trials. Basically learn as much as you can. My reading was you were fairly new to this. If not, please forgive my speaker to you that way.

[Opus007]

A few months back I was auditioning a Musical Fidelty A3.5 integrated.It was paired with a Rotel cd player and driving a pair of 703's.The dealer put in some jazz that sounded great.I brought 2 cd's to listen to.One was Megadeath and it sounded like total crap.The next was Allman Brothers Eat a Peach and I listened to the 33 minuet track Mountain Jam which is one of my main go to audition tracks.To be honest the 703's did not do this track justice and it sounds better on my current setup with the 683's.
I have also auditioned the 703's at another local dealer with all Rotel gear.And here is where I will get flack but I thought they sounded rather thin and that the 683's outshined them.I have never auditioned the 800 series and am sure the 801's or 800's would be fantastic...but way out of my price range.
Before I purchased the 683's all my previous speakers had 15 woofers in them and all where excellent for rock.When I got the B&W's I think I bought them just to have B&W's.Then I bought Rotel (rsx1057,rb1080)gear and all the time looking to somehow get it right as I have never felt that any of the B&W's that I have listened to can do rock the way it is meant to be heard.Maybe the 803's on up can but how can speakers with tiny little woofers ever produce what you would hear at a real rock concert.I may have to drag out my old speakers and give them a listen to this weekend.

[Alaric]

Since this is Club B & W I'll have to whisper- a little closer-*Paradigm*

[dknightd]

If you like your old stuff better, then use it. Maybe your dealer will take back what you bought.

[Opus007]

If you like your old stuff better, then use it. Maybe your dealer will take back what you bought.

Do not get me wrong.My B&W's are awesome speakers.They do a lot of things great but to me lack in the rock department.The older speakers I have do rock very good but lack in all other aspects.The things I like about what I have now is they are awesome for HT,jazz, easy listening they just are not the best for rock.The reason I started this thread was looking for input on other B&W speakers that others have found to do rock well and with slam.

[Opus007]

Anyone with the 803's care to chime in.

[Alaric]

May I ask what your older speakers are/were?

[PewterTA]

803Ds go well with Rock.
Though I think the 802Ds do as well....

To me I notice my Rock CDs suffer more from the way they are produced (engineered) than the speakers making a real difference. Better speakers just tend to show how poorly most Rock albums are produced.

To me though, my 604s does really well with just about everything I throw at them. Are there better speakers out there, of course, but for the price I've yet to really hear something that makes me drool (well the 802Ds maybe)...or some of the DIY speakers from John Marsh.

[Opus007]

May I ask what your older speakers are/were?

They are home built.I took some huge old Fisher cabs and re-did the whole inside with new matting and some extra braces.Then Changed all the drivers and crossovers.Can not remember at the moment what drivers I used.I do remember though that it took me many different driver combos to find the ones that made the cabs sound good.

[Alaric]

Sounds like you built to your tastes. Maybe see if you can find similar specs on new speakers?

[RobP]

Anyone with the 803's care to chime in.

Yup!

I think it all depends on your equipment really and what type of signal you are feeding them. Case in point:.... I find that my older rock albums sound great when I use the two channel bypass mode on my Classe processor, but when I switch over to the 2 channel mode through the processor it really gets fatiguing quick.

I have heard the N803's under many different setups and they all sounded different, you just have to find that right combo to really bring them to their full potential.

So, yes, the N803's can be really great with rock music.

[emig5m]

Here's my old speakers sitting next to the 684's I was trying:



Look what I can from... Specs on those where 102dB 1w/1m efficiency and 400 watts and I can say that the 683's don't disappoint at all for rock or metal. I might of lost a tad bit of peak volume, but the B&W's are superior in every other way and still play loud enough to get complaints, lol. Even playing R&B or rap the bass hits hard and loud (I don't even use my Velodyne sub at all for 2-channel music). I think you should try tweaking speaker placement/listening position because I can move my speakers a foot one way or the other and the bass can go in and out.

Funny thing is, I don't even have to touch a bass or treble knob and the sound is just amazing... Of course if you're just a bass freak, you could always go with something like this:



Four Cerwin Vega 15's should get you rock n' rollin' lol. :lol:

But still.. the clarity... the imaging... the fidelity of B&W I could personally never go back to Cerwin Vega level sound quality again (even though they'll always have a place in my heart as being my first true love, hehe).

When my dealer asked how I liked the 683's after bringing back the 684's, I said- "They're perfect!" :T (even though I still would of took the 684's or even the 685's over my old speaker...)

[Alaric]

LOL! I tought of suggesting CVs!

[Opus007]

I Know i need to upgrade my electronics.The Sony 4300 es is great for ht.When I listen to music I use the direct 2 channel mode with no EQ and do not use the subs and have the mains set to large.I have owned the RSX 1057 and RB1080 Rotels and though they sounded good Something was just not to my tastes.I now have a rb1075 and am looking for a good pre and so far have not found the right one to pair with the B&W's.I do feel getting a good pre-amp would improve my music listening.
When I was building the speakers I built them with the Pioneer SX-780 being the audio source.The pioneer does not have enough to power the B&W's at only 45wpc.Maybe I will change my mind when I get a good pre-amp and rock and roll will be here to stay.

[Opus007]

Here's my old speakers sitting next to the 684's I was trying:



Look what I can from... Specs on those where 102dB 1w/1m efficiency and 400 watts and I can say that the 683's don't disappoint at all for rock or metal. I might of lost a tad bit of peak volume, but the B&W's are superior in every other way and still play loud enough to get complaints, lol. Even playing R&B or rap the bass hits hard and loud (I don't even use my Velodyne sub at all for 2-channel music). I think you should try tweaking speaker placement/listening position because I can move my speakers a foot one way or the other and the bass can go in and out.

Funny thing is, I don't even have to touch a bass or treble knob and the sound is just amazing... Of course if you're just a bass freak, you could always go with something like this:



Four Cerwin Vega 15's should get you rock n' rollin' lol. :lol:

But still.. the clarity... the imaging... the fidelity of B&W I could personally never go back to Cerwin Vega level sound quality again (even though they'll always have a place in my heart as being my first true love, hehe).

When my dealer asked how I liked the 683's after bringing back the 684's, I said- "They're perfect!" :T (even though I still would of took the 684's or even the 685's over my old speaker...)

Are you still powering yours with the Emotiva and Yammy?

[Race Car Driver]

I was gonna say Vega! LOL

I still love CV!

[Opus007]

Here are a set of speaker I owned about 10 years ago that I wish I never got rid of.They are AR-9's with 2 side firing woofers

[emig5m]

Are you still powering yours with the Emotiva and Yammy?

Yup. I like the sound so much I'm second guessing changing anything. (Have my eye on the not yet released Emotiva XMC-1 Pre/Pro)

[bigburner]

Since this is Club B & W I'll have to whisper- a little closer-*Paradigm*

I agree.

If I wanted a pair of rock speakers at a reasonable price I'd buy the Paradigm Studio 100 Series 3 and drive them with something grunty like a Rotel RB-1090 or 1092 amp.

Nigel.

[Opus007]

I agree.

If I wanted a pair of rock speakers at a reasonable price I'd buy the Paradigm Studio 100 Series 3 and drive them with something grunty like a Rotel RB-1090 or 1092 amp.

Nigel.

Thanks for the input.I have never heard Paraigm speakers before.I am going to try a pre-amp upgrade and see if it makes a difference.If not I may give them a listen.The speakers that I built are the big ones in this picture.This picture is from over a year ago and no longer have the Rotel Gear.And everything is arranged differently now.

[Opus007]

Yup!

I think it all depends on your equipment really and what type of signal you are feeding them. Case in point:.... I find that my older rock albums sound great when I use the two channel bypass mode on my Classe processor, but when I switch over to the 2 channel mode through the processor it really gets fatiguing quick.

I have heard the N803's under many different setups and they all sounded different, you just have to find that right combo to really bring them to their full potential.

So, yes, the N803's can be really great with rock music.

Thanks Robert.I really like the look of the 803's and would like to upgrade to them when and if I ever upgrade.They would be my speaker of choice if they fit the rock and roll bill.They are still very pricey for me but they are something that I could do in the future and something to work towards.And of course would need better equipment to power them.

[Alaric]

I agree.

If I wanted a pair of rock speakers at a reasonable price I'd buy the Paradigm Studio 100 Series 3 and drive them with something grunty like a Rotel RB-1090 or 1092 amp.

Nigel.

:yesnod: Good advice on the amps , too. The Studio 100s are power hungry , but have a lot of slam when cranked up. My 'lil Studio 60s , on the other hand , will run most people out of my house with a 95 wpc integrated.
Try to find/hear the v3 Studio (used). I've heard the v4 and honestly wasn't very impressed. Seemed harsh. IMO.