Mcintosh?

[crytklmass]

Anyone used Mcintosh with there B&W's. preferably the 802d's. A retailer in my area is going out of business and said he would sell me an MC207 200wpc x7. brand new for $4000.00. Im still testing the Denon POA-A1HDCI, which If I keep I will pay $4500.00. He also said in January Mcintosh is releasing a new surround processor, an upgrade from the MX136. supposedly to compete with the classe ssp800. any truth to this? price is around $9,000.00 Ive already made my point on the denon poa/avp combo. but is mcintosh the better option? price would be roughly the same, maybe $2000.00 more than the Denon combo. I also forgot to mention, im not a jazz or classical person. I listen to rock, metal, rap, a large variety. The mac sales person was really pushing hard for the sale, even stating classe is a piece of junk. (well that's not true) classe are awesome with B&W, the only issue with me is price comparison and what my ears hear. well, ive said enough, what do you mac pro's think. an mc207 with the mx136 (replacement). If there is one.

[Race Car Driver]

Sounds to me like the Denon combo you were so happy with in your first post you are having seconds thoughts about.

Every one of your last few posts you seem to be second guessing your purchase. You stated you let your ears do the purchasing, so let them and dont worry about how others think you should spend your money.

[Orb]

Yeah if your happy with the Denon stay with it, some higher level amps are about taste and I have seen some change their McIntosh for another manufacturer not because of sound quality but taste.

Regarding the Denon and what I said, just send an email to Denon for their advice and mention the 802d drops to 3ohms from 80-100 Hz.
They may say just make sure plenty of ventilation, or restrict how many channels you bridge, or may even suggest bi-amping who knows.
But, I would not worry about it just see what they suggest.

Cheers
Orb

[htsteve]

I have McIntosh with my 802D's, HTM2D and N804's. To me they are a wonderful combo, awesome really. So my opinion is slanted that way. I chose them after listening to Krell and Classe as well.

However, I agree with the other responses. Let your ears be the judge. It does sound like you like the Denon. But, if your are in the 'research' or 'demonstration' phase where you are evaluating equipment to find exactly what you are looking for, then you should consider auditioning all the possible solutions. Any of these combo's you are considering are a very good chunk of change and it is probably good to listen to as many as you can so you can base your final decision on your listenings.

The MC207 is a very good amp (I'm using the MC205 in my system), especially for that price (which is a GREAT price). BTW, I have the MX120 pre-amp. I'd be curious to see if Mac is also coming out with an updated version of this unit as well. The main difference between the MX120 and MX136 are the number of inputs and the 136 has balanced pre-outs for the rear inputs. I'm sure there are other differences, but those were the ones I noticed. The 120 is about 20% less expensive than the 136.


I believe in integration with amp and pre-amp. I wouldn't mix and match.


Hope this helps.

[crytklmass]

I am still evaluating, I just was listening to others opinions. so far, bang for the buck is Denon. but now that Grammaphone (I noticed you live in warrren michigan HTSTEVE) is going out of business. there sign says there moving, but one sales person I know left the grammaphone and went to audio video systems. Im still testing the different combo's. not having second thoughts, just making sure I make the best decision as I will live with these for a very long time. I cant keep upgrading every 3 years.lol
Race car driver- as far as my comparison between classe and denon, I think denon wins. just more bang for the buck, I tested bryston as well, same conclusion, PRICE! best bang for the buck, I dont care what brand name it is, I dont showboat and say my B&W's are the best speakers ever, your klipsch or martin logan speakers suck. That's not fair. my other friends, 1 is a mac freak, the other loves Klipsch. Im just making sure I get the best audio/video solution possible. so far, the Denon's are winning, but the mcintosh deals kinda makes me want to test them in the mix as well. I never listened to Mcintosh amps with B&W speakers to get a fair evaluation. The sales person at Grammaphone said "bring in your speakers and audition them here". Ya, right, and what the hell is he smokin'. its easier for me to bring the amp home and listen to it in my environment. cost wise, they will be the same as the Denon combo purchase and that's the only reason for testing these. if not, I would stay with Denon. again, price, and bang for the buck, not bragging rights. Mcintosh has been around along time and for the same price as Denon,I have to give them a fair chance. Now its between Denon and Mcintosh, but if mcintosh is not replacing there Mx136 with a better ssp to compete with denon and classe, then Im staying with denon. many more features and options. I want this amp to last at least 10 years, I know Mac has a good reputation,I think there amps look out dated compared to classe. Im just doing my home work and listening to everyone's opinions. The mx136 can't compete with classe ssp800 or Denons AVP-A1HDCI. As far as I can see, am I missing anything? the only worry about the Denon POA-A1HDCI that I found so far, is that it puts off alot of heat and I mean alot. that worries me about solder joints later and proper ventilation so they dont overheat. Other than that I cant find any flaws, I am bridging my fronts and center: 300wpc, rears scm1 150wpc each.
In the end it is my money and my ears as to what I hear, but there also has to be good customer service after the sale. My sales person that I purchased my B&W/Rotel system ordered my spikes for my 802d's, there priced at $135 per set of 4. I never asked him to do that. Thats great customer service, he sells classe and is trying his best to have me buy the classe. he can get me an ssp800 for $6,000 and he can get me a classe ca 5200 for $8000. I asked his opinion about the new denon combo and he said, denon is a piece of sh&t compared to classe, I remarked, maybe but it half the price. anyways, I got off subject. back to mac. vs. classe vs denon. do you need all the bells and whistles each ssp offers? you can only listen to one at a time. lol. which does the best 2 channel and best video reproduction? my onkyo integra, had dolby, 2 halls, 2 theaters, 5.1, 7.1, ambisonic, 2ch, and a few other options, sounds cool, I guess you can brag to your friends, but in reality you can only choose one at a time to listen to. which option is the best. now they have these new digital processors vs analog. the fight begins.

[beden1]

You were quoted $6,000 for the Classe SSP-800? I find this price very suspect! I know of another dealer who went out-of-business, and all of their Classe products had to be sent back to Classe, as opposed to being sold at that kind of discount.

Since price is your primary motivator, you're probably best off by staying with the Denon system.

[Briz vegas]

I will probably sound like a middle class middle aged elitist snob (I probably am) but I think benden may have apoint. Maybe you are not the sort of listener that is into the subtle nuances of music as portrayed by some audio gear. Maybe all that matters is the kick from your system. Some people live for the emotion and detail of a system with good synergy, but it is not for everyone. Other folks kind of grow into it, and others will always think it is a w@nk.

You sound a little like some mates I had years ago that were more interested in the deal they had just done rather than enjoying the gear. I suspect that you may not get much out of the Mcintosh sound over the Denon. But then again I am guessing about your taste. Nothng is going to make compressed stuff like the latest Metallica sound good, but the The Cat Empire on the other hand can sound great (2 channel).

[Orb]

Crytklmass,
one thing to take into consideration that a few others have mentioned; you will probably need to consider the preamp you want to use when thinking about purchasing the McIntosh.
So if your not looking to replace the pre, the McIntosh may not be the most ideal product - definitely need to listen to the McIntosh with the pre you inted to use and also try one of the McIntosh pre-amps to have a comparable listening experience.

Cheers and happy listening.
Orb

[speakerboy]

Crytklmass,
one thing to take into consideration that a few others have mentioned; you will probably need to consider the preamp you want to use when thinking about purchasing the McIntosh.
So if your not looking to replace the pre, the McIntosh may not be the most ideal product - definitely need to listen to the McIntosh with the pre you inted to use and also try one of the McIntosh pre-amps to have a comparable listening experience.

Cheers and happy listening.
Orb

I agree. If you're getting the Denon AVP pre/pro, you just as well get the matching Denon POA--there's a cable that allows them to communicate with each other. If not, you should consider the Mc...sounds like a good deal.

[H.T.C]

I will probably sound like a middle class middle aged elitist snob (I probably am) but I think benden may have apoint. Maybe you are not the sort of listener that is into the subtle nuances of music as portrayed by some audio gear. Maybe all that matters is the kick from your system. Some people live for the emotion and detail of a system with good synergy, but it is not for everyone. Other folks kind of grow into it, and others will always think it is a w@nk.

You sound a little like some mates I had years ago that were more interested in the deal they had just done rather than enjoying the gear. I suspect that you may not get much out of the Mcintosh sound over the Denon. But then again I am guessing about your taste. Nothng is going to make compressed stuff like the latest Metallica sound good, but the The Cat Empire on the other hand can sound great (2 channel).

I dont think your a middle class snob :roll: folks forget without the middle class everthing would fall apart.

[bvk_houtx]

I would purchase the McIntosh MC-207. The price of 4K is a good price. I would then look for a McIntosh pre/pro, maybe a MC-135 or MC-136. The only major difference between the two is the MC-136 supports a HDMI (v1.1?) connection. Although I have not heard the Denon equipment I feel very confident the McIntosh combination would be far superior to anything made by Denon, plus it holds it resale value. This will be a major consideration when you decide to upgrade in two years.

[Pookie007]

Them seems somewhat along the same lines of my question. I am considering replacing the amp for my 803D speakers. My current set uses an Audio Research. I was going to do to the Mac 252 or 402. Has anyone done any extended listening tests with these two amps and the 803D speakers? I only get short oportunities to listen, and don't have the ability to do a side-by-side test. Also, has anyone recently purchased Mac amps. I am curious of what the suggested retail and street price for these 2 amps.

[Kal Rubinson]

Using the MC303 with the three front 802Ds. Report in the May issue.

Kal

[wgriel]

Using the MC303 with the three front 802Ds. Report in the May issue.

Kal

Cool! I'm looking forward to your review. From the little I've heard, I really like the combination of McIntosh with B&W.

[Pookie007]

My thought on the 252 was I could move it to the rears and get three 501s. I think the 402 would be foolish to use for the rears, but I also don't know the timeline to get the 501s. I thought about the 303 but the $9k is more than I want to spend right now. I want to stay in the $5k range if I can.

[focker]

I am running an MC303 with 803D/HTM2D and it is fantastic. I posted a few photos in the photo sticky thread above.

[htsteve]

My thought on the 252 was I could move it to the rears and get three 501s. I think the 402 would be foolish to use for the rears, but I also don't know the timeline to get the 501s. I thought about the 303 but the $9k is more than I want to spend right now. I want to stay in the $5k range if I can.

Pookie007,

I recently got a MC252 to run my 802D's in a small/medium sized room. It drives the 802D's excellently. The detail, soundstage (especially depth of soundstage) and bass are quite spectacular.

Given your long term plan of getting 501's, I think a 252 will drive your 803D's very, very well. I also like the 252 as a rear speaker amp later. 402's would be fabulous for rears, but unless the rears are 803D's or bigger, then I tend to agree that it may be a bit too much to spend on an amp for the rears.

BTW, MC252's are about $3k on audiogon. Used 402's are about $4k. A pair of used 501's seems to be in the middle $6k range.


Hope this helps.

[Pookie007]

Thanks htsteve. This talk of the 303 has me thinking that might be the better solution for the future amp if I move the 252 to the rears. Does anyone know what the new prices on these amps are? And what dealers typically sale them for? I want to be prepared when I see the dealer. I will buy new so I have the option for the trade up program Mac seems to do each year.

[scanido]

Pookie007,

I recently got a MC252 to run my 802D's in a small/medium sized room. It drives the 802D's excellently. The detail, soundstage (especially depth of soundstage) and bass are quite spectacular.

Given your long term plan of getting 501's, I think a 252 will drive your 803D's very, very well. I also like the 252 as a rear speaker amp later. 402's would be fabulous for rears, but unless the rears are 803D's or bigger, then I tend to agree that it may be a bit too much to spend on an amp for the rears.

BTW, MC252's are about $3k on audiogon. Used 402's are about $4k. A pair of used 501's seems to be in the middle $6k range.


Hope this helps.

HTSteve, how did you find the MC252 compared to the MC205? Are they on par?

To the OP, I would not hesitate on the MC207 deal. It's probably gone by now if you haven't already bought it. Keep in mind the new Mac processor will be out, hopefully, by the summer and for $12,000 retail!!!! 8O

[htsteve]

HTSteve, how did you find the MC252 compared to the MC205? Are they on par?

scanido,

First, the MC205 is a great amp, and a great multi-channel amp. It handles all things (clarity, soundstage, bass, quiet background, etc.) very well. The MC252 does everything the 205 does, but even better. I would not consider the two to be equals in terms of per channel performance. For my 802D's, the 252 is definitely better. And it was in all areas. The biggest areas of improvement are bass (deeper, cleaner, more weight across more of the bass spectrum), soundstage (the depth of it is astonishing) and the air around the music or sound. Truly excellent. I now feel like the 802D's are the absolute cornerstones of my system.


Hope this helps.

[scanido]

scanido,

First, the MC205 is a great amp, and a great multi-channel amp. It handles all things (clarity, soundstage, bass, quiet background, etc.) very well. The MC252 does everything the 205 does, but even better. I would not consider the two to be equals in terms of per channel performance. For my 802D's, the 252 is definitely better. And it was in all areas. The biggest areas of improvement are bass (deeper, cleaner, more weight across more of the bass spectrum), soundstage (the depth of it is astonishing) and the air around the music or sound. Truly excellent. I now feel like the 802D's are the absolute cornerstones of my system.


Hope this helps.

Thanks! I may consider the MC252 for my 803S whenever i decide to do 7.1, but adding it to replace the two channels of my MC205 may not produce much difference as my speakers are less revealing than the 802D's. You have definitely sparked my interest to find out!

[htsteve]

Thanks htsteve. This talk of the 303 has me thinking that might be the better solution for the future amp if I move the 252 to the rears. Does anyone know what the new prices on these amps are? And what dealers typically sale them for? I want to be prepared when I see the dealer. I will buy new so I have the option for the trade up program Mac seems to do each year.

Pookie007,

You have a very nice line of thinking with the Mac upgrade program (which does not apply to multichannel amps, but DOES apply to mono & stereo amps and electronics). A new MC252 is $5k. I would estimate you would get 5-10% off from most dealers (without getting into trouble).


Hope this helps.

[htsteve]

Thanks! I may consider the MC252 for my 803S whenever i decide to do 7.1, but adding it to replace the two channels of my MC205 may not produce much difference as my speakers are less revealing than the 802D's. You have definitely sparked my interest to find out!

scanido,

Definitely try to demo a 252 if you can. I think you might like the results on 803S's, especially with bass and soundstage.

[Pookie007]

Thanks. I was leaning towards the 252 and it fits in my budget. So I think I will try to look at them this weekend.