Horizontal and vertical BiAmping??

[specialized]

While i'm looking for amp solution for my HTM3S, i found out this types of biamping.. .Can somebody explain me what is vertical and what is horizontal bi amping?

Greetings

Darko

[Aussie Geoff]

Hi,

Vertical bi amping is where you use a stereo amp to drive the bass and mid/treble of speakers that are meant to be bi-amped.

Horizonal bi-amping is where you use one amp for the bass (L and R) and another for the Mid/ Treble (L and R). Some people will use different model amps for this, favouring their different characteristics. More for the adventurous type though...

Geoff

[specialized]

Hi,

Vertical bi amping is where you use a stereo amp to drive the bass and mid/treble of speakers that are meant to be bi-amped.

Horizonal bi-amping is where you use one amp for the bass (L and R) and another for the Mid/ Treble (L and R). Some people will use different model amps for this, favouring their different characteristics. More for the adventurous type though...

Geoff

So. I have this idea.. To buy a Rotel 1070 for HTM3S, and to horizontal biamp.. One channel to be dedicated for a bass, the other channel to be for mid/treble.

I know how to connect the speakers cable (two bass terminals on speaker to a two terminals of one channel, and two mid/treble terminals on speaker to two terminals of other channel of amp).

Im not sure how to connect interconect cable from my receiver to the amp?
There is only one pin on Center Preout on receiver (Denon 3808), and two pins on the Rotel 1070?
Do i need some adapter for this?

All this i'm thinking to have matching fronts (803S connected to Rotel 1080), and HTM3S to be connected this way. Am i solving the problem this way?


Greetings

Darko

[mjb]

You'll need some Y adapters, to "share" the pre-amp output with the amp inputs.

[specialized]

You'll need some Y adapters, to "share" the pre-amp output with the amp inputs.

And is that a solution for my problem? Perfectly balanced front end?
What are the negative sides of this?

Darko

[mjb]

To be honest, I don't think its a good solution. Really you want the same amp across the front three to keep the sound similar. I'm not a fan of bi-amping either. Better would be to get another 1080, use one channel for the front center, and the other for a future rear center.

[specialized]

To be honest, I don't think its a good solution. Really you want the same amp across the front three to keep the sound similar. I'm not a fan of bi-amping either. Better would be to get another 1080, use one channel for the front center, and the other for a future rear center.

I have the same idea.. But the sales guy told me that is not good for an amp if one channel is used and other is empty...

Also i was thinking to use one channell of 1080 for the HTM3S and the other one for one of the rear speaker.. And receiver to be used only for other rear speaker.. That way 4 of the speakers would have the same amplification, and only one of the rears would sound a bit different which i can fix it in some way with Denon Auddisey software..

But about this idea sales guy said that it's not good if channels drive different speakers..

It's not logical so me, but..

And i would definitly wont have another centar channel (rear back), becouse there is no place where i can put it (there is windows behing my sitting position, and also i'm only half metar located from the rear wall/windows).

Greetings

Darko

p.s. What about 1075 as solution? For the center and rear speakers, and i'll have two more free ? Would be a difference that i can find between front speakers and center this way?

[Kal Rubinson]

Ignore your salesguy.

[ninja12]

I have 803S and HTM3S. I have 2 1080s. I use one for each main speaker. So, I have 400 watts available to each front speaker. This gives me plenty of head room for each speaker since each speaker is only 250 watts. I use my 1095 to drive my center, surrounds and rears. The sound is extremely clean, sweet, and tight. :T :B

[wettou]

I have 803S and HTM3S. I have 2 1080s. I use one for each main speaker. So, I have 400 watts available to each front speaker. This gives me plenty of head room for each speaker since each speaker is only 250 watts. I use my 1095 to drive my center, surrounds and rears. The sound is extremely clean, sweet, and tight. :T :B

Nice very nice independent amplifier for each speaker is the way to go:T

[specialized]

I have 803S and HTM3S. I have 2 1080s. I use one for each main speaker. So, I have 400 watts available to each front speaker. This gives me plenty of head room for each speaker since each speaker is only 250 watts. I use my 1095 to drive my center, surrounds and rears. The sound is extremely clean, sweet, and tight. :T :B

Can u post me a pictures to see how u connected them.. Do u use Y adapter?
What kind of Preout do u use?


Darko

[Ataim]

The BEST way is to buy an active crossover. By not using it you are still sending a full spectrum signal to the crossover in the speake. Take about 30 minutes and read the following: http://sound.westhost.com/bi-amp.htm#separating_sig

Here's a quote from site

"Passive biamping (where two amplifiers are used in a bi-wiring connection) is, IMHO, a waste of money. Although there may be some moderate sonic benefits, they are not worth the expense of the extra amplifier."

[Kal Rubinson]

The BEST way is to buy an active crossover. By not using it you are still sending a full spectrum signal to the crossover in the speake. Take about 30 minutes and read the following: http://sound.westhost.com/bi-amp.htm#separating_sig

Here's a quote from site

"Passive biamping (where two amplifiers are used in a bi-wiring connection) is, IMHO, a waste of money. Although there may be some moderate sonic benefits, they are not worth the expense of the extra amplifier."

Sure except for one important detail. You can't buy an external crossover, off the shelf, that will replace all the functions of the built-in passive one. The latter also does custom frequency/phase/impedance shaping for it's specific drivers/enclosures. Only a similarly custom-designed active crossover will do.

Kal

[specialized]

Sure except for one important detail. You can't buy an external crossover, off the shelf, that will replace all the functions of the built-in passive one. The latter also does custom frequency/phase/impedance shaping for it's specific drivers/enclosures. Only a similarly custom-designed active crossover will do.

Kal

And? What is my final solution? Another 1080 which one channel would drive centar and the other would be empty or would drive one of rear speakers?
What do u think?


Darko

[Kal Rubinson]

And? What is my final solution? Another 1080 which one channel would drive centar and the other would be empty or would drive one of rear speakers?
What do u think?
Darko

Just because you paid for that extra channel doesn't mean that you have to find a use for it. :W

BTW, there's no downside to passive bi-amping; just don't expect much of an upside.

[specialized]

Just because you paid for that extra channel doesn't mean that you have to find a use for it. :W

BTW, there's no downside to passive bi-amping; just don't expect much of an upside.

I dont expect anything from BiAmping My quest is to have as much similarity in my front end, so to have similar sound from 803S connected to Rotel 1080, compared to HTM3S connected to what?

So i thought my solution for HTM3S is to get another Rotel 1080. To connect one channel to HTM3S, and the other channel to dont use at all, or to connect to one of rear speakers.. So Denon 3808 that way would drive just one rear channel and i'll get the most same sounding front end possible.

What do u think about this idea? Is another Rotel 1080 solution? Empty channel, or one of back speakers to be connected there? (In that case 1080 wont drive same speakers on both channels)

greetings and thanks for u'r effort

Darko

[mjb]

I dont expect anything from BiAmping My quest is to have as much similarity in my front end, so to have similar sound from 803S connected to Rotel 1080, compared to HTM3S connected to what?

So you'll be needing another 1080 then ;-) even if it means leaving a channel idle.

Its really not too complicated. Bi-amping is not what its cracked up to be, and you want the front three speakers to be similar in terms of sound and gain: which means using the same (or near equivalent) amps.

[specialized]

So you'll be needing another 1080 then ;-) even if it means leaving a channel idle.

Its really not too complicated. Bi-amping is not what its cracked up to be, and you want the front three speakers to be similar in terms of sound and gain: which means using the same (or near equivalent) amps.

1. Rotel RB-1080
a) Second channel left empty
b) Second channel connected to one of rear speakers, and the other rear speakers would be on Denon 3808 Receiver

2. Rotel 1075, Connected to Center and rear speakers and two Empty

3. Rotel 1070, bridged mono, connected to HTM3S, rear speakers connected to Denon
4.. Rotel RB-1070
a) Second channel left empty
b) Second channel connected to one of rear speakers, and the other rear speakers would be on Denon 3808 Receiver


Thank u


Darko

[mjb]

Either 1 or 2.
The 1075 is nice because its all in one box, the 1080's are nice because they're more flexible and they have a higher output. You also have a 1080 already, so this would probably be you're best (simplest) option.

[Ataim]

Sure except for one important detail. You can't buy an external crossover, off the shelf, that will replace all the functions of the built-in passive one. The latter also does custom frequency/phase/impedance shaping for it's specific drivers/enclosures. Only a similarly custom-designed active crossover will do.

Kal

Not to thread drift, but you would keep the internal passive crossover. You would connect the processor to the active crossover, after signal is split you connect the bass from one channel to the bass input of the speaker and the other for the mid/high on the speaker. You have to adjust the crossover point on the active crossover to match the drivers/passive crossover in the speakers. I've bi-amped four or five different speakers and the difference is HUGE imho.

[Kal Rubinson]

Not to thread drift, but you would keep the internal passive crossover. You would connect the processor to the active crossover, after signal is split you connect the bass from one channel to the bass input of the speaker and the other for the mid/high on the speaker. You have to adjust the crossover point on the active crossover to match the drivers/passive crossover in the speakers. I've bi-amped four or five different speakers and the difference is HUGE imho.

I have no doubt that the difference is huge but it is an entirely wrong way to do it. The roll-offs of the active and passive filters will add up to an entirely wrong filter shape. You must use one correct crossover. (You do know what happens when you cascade filters.)

Now, I have heard of others who have done similar but put the HP filter two octaves below the passive HP and the LP two octaves above the passive LP. This reduces the load on the amps and greatly reduces the corruption of the passive filter configuration by the active filters. Of course, I would not really call that an active crossover, so much as a protective filter.

Kal

[Ataim]

PM sent, so as not to drift anymore :T