N800 problem with rubber seal around FST

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  • Ash
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2004
    • 191

    N800 problem with rubber seal around FST

    Hi guys, as you know i just bought a pair of pre-owned N800 and I'm starting to find some problems with them.

    It seems the on one of the speakers the rubber seal surrounding the FST drive is tucked under the FST drive at a certain area, thus exposing a white surface that comes behind the rubber.

    I'm not sure why this happened but I doubt that this was a manufacuring problem. I'm suspecting that the FST driver has been perhaps tampered with or repaired. The driver was probably remove and on assembly, not much care was taken to position the rubber correctly. I noticed some minor scraches on the tension screw in the back that might indicate this.

    Reading through some other threads in the forum, I cam to know that this may have an effect on the sound, because the marlan enclosure may not be completely sealed and thus air may escape and affect the sound.

    I have to say, I have noticed some difference in the sound coming from the speakers. It seems that the mid band on the good speaker is slightly stronger when compared to the damaged one! All the details are there, but they are very subtly more prominant on the good one, causing some very slight scewing of the midrange towards the good speakers (Am I imaging this?! haha).

    Any way, I need help guys. How can I fix this?

    Should I try to pick it out with a small grabing tool?

    Is there a way to loosen the driver, align the rubber and tighten it back on. This seems to be difficult due to the complex marlan enclosure.

    Any help would be highly appreciated.

    Thank you
  • Ash
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2004
    • 191

    #2
    I'm attaching some pictures, so that you guys can get an idea.
    Attached Files

    Comment

    • sc2
      Member
      • Feb 2008
      • 65

      #3
      If you want to replace these, I am pretty sure I saw these new for sale on Ebay, there was like six of them...
      Steve

      Comment

      • Ash
        Senior Member
        • Dec 2004
        • 191

        #4
        If you want to replace these, I am pretty sure I saw these new for sale on Ebay, there was like six of them...
        __________________
        Steve
        Hi Steve,

        Which part exactly that you saw for sale on ebay?

        thanks

        Comment

        • beden1
          Super Senior Member
          • Oct 2006
          • 1676

          #5
          Could it be that the speaker slipped down a bit during transport? I can't see the bottom of the speaker, but does it look like it's lower than it should be? It may be that you just need to realign it. Someone may know what happens when you loosen the back screw, and whether this enables you to realign the speaker. It doesn't look damaged from the picture.

          Comment

          • DM3000 Owner
            Senior Member
            • Jun 2006
            • 475

            #6
            Call B&W tech support. They are very helpful. You will need to leave a message and they will get back to you.

            800-370-3740

            Comment

            • Race Car Driver
              Super Senior Member
              • Mar 2005
              • 1537

              #7
              They are faulty, i guess I will have to take them off your hands.
              B&W

              Comment

              • RobP
                Ultra Senior Member
                • Nov 2004
                • 4747

                #8
                You can just unscrew the phase plug and insert a piece of all-thread the same size of the phase plug, which I believe is 8mm.
                Then loosen the back screw until the driver is loose, using the all thread to hold the speaker, re-adjust the gasket and push the driver back in place, then just re-tighten the screw until it is snug.
                Robert P. 8)

                AKA "Soundgravy"

                Comment

                • DM3000 Owner
                  Senior Member
                  • Jun 2006
                  • 475

                  #9
                  Originally posted by RobP
                  You can just unscrew the phase plug and insert a piece of all-thread the same size of the phase plug, which I believe is 8mm.
                  Then loosen the back screw until the driver is loose, using the all thread to hold the speaker, re-adjust the gasket and push the driver back in place, then just re-tighten the screw until it is snug.
                  FWIW, B&W's engineer told me to tighten the screw on the back until all play is taken up, then one full turn tighter (pretty much like tightenig an oil filter).

                  Comment

                  • Ash
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2004
                    • 191

                    #10
                    Could it be that the speaker slipped down a bit during transport? I can't see the bottom of the speaker, but does it look like it's lower than it should be? It may be that you just need to realign it. Someone may know what happens when you loosen the back screw, and whether this enables you to realign the speaker. It doesn't look damaged from the picture.
                    Hi benden, I dont't think that the speaker slipped during transport. I can see from the pictures I posted that the driver looks lower than it should, but its not. It only the rubber part is traped under the FST at that location, as if someone didn't align the rubber properly on assembly.

                    Comment

                    • Ash
                      Senior Member
                      • Dec 2004
                      • 191

                      #11
                      You can just unscrew the phase plug and insert a piece of all-thread the same size of the phase plug, which I believe is 8mm.
                      Then loosen the back screw until the driver is loose, using the all thread to hold the speaker, re-adjust the gasket and push the driver back in place, then just re-tighten the screw until it is snug.
                      FWIW, B&W's engineer told me to tighten the screw on the back until all play is taken up, then one full turn tighter (pretty much like tightenig an oil filter).
                      Thanks for the input Robert / DM3000. That seems like a possible solution. Should I be worried about anything when trying to do this?
                      A can think of a few issues:

                      1- I have read somewhere that the the B&W factory tightens the back screw until a certain tension is achieved. If I do this exercise, will I feel a difference between the speakers? Not sure how to exactly get to the desired tightness, what I understand from DM3000 is that it needs to be very tight.

                      2- To open the back screw, should I turn it clockwise or anti-clock. Upto what level should I loosen the screw, and if it was loosen a bit too much, will there be any implications or complications in putting the shole thing together?

                      Anything else I should be looking for?

                      Did anyone try this before, if yes, it would be helpful to hear your experience and whether this has effected the sound in anyway.

                      Thank for the help everyone

                      Comment

                      • Ash
                        Senior Member
                        • Dec 2004
                        • 191

                        #12
                        They are faulty, i guess I will have to take them off your hands.
                        Hay man, I think you already got a good share of almost free speakers in your life. That won't happen twice, your not that lucky. LOL

                        Comment

                        • DM3000 Owner
                          Senior Member
                          • Jun 2006
                          • 475

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Ash
                          Thanks for the input Robert / DM3000. That seems like a possible solution. Should I be worried about anything when trying to do this?
                          A can think of a few issues:

                          1- I have read somewhere that the the B&W factory tightens the back screw until a certain tension is achieved. If I do this exercise, will I feel a difference between the speakers? Not sure how to exactly get to the desired tightness, what I understand from DM3000 is that it needs to be very tight.

                          2- To open the back screw, should I turn it clockwise or anti-clock. Upto what level should I loosen the screw, and if it was loosen a bit too much, will there be any implications or complications in putting the shole thing together?


                          Anything else I should be looking for?

                          Did anyone try this before, if yes, it would be helpful to hear your experience and whether this has effected the sound in anyway.

                          Thank for the help everyone
                          Here is what B&W's engineer told me. Tighten the screw until all of the slack is taken up and it is snug by hand. i.e. finger tight. Then tighten it one more full turn with a screwdriver.

                          Comment

                          • Race Car Driver
                            Super Senior Member
                            • Mar 2005
                            • 1537

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Ash
                            Hay man, I think you already got a good share of almost free speakers in your life. That won't happen twice, your not that lucky. LOL
                            Oh but it did, with my SCM1s and SCMS :lol:
                            B&W

                            Comment

                            • Indytown
                              Senior Member
                              • Apr 2005
                              • 171

                              #15
                              Here is what I would do in the following sequence.

                              1) Call B&W parts or tech.
                              2) find out how much a new rubber seal, rear locking screw with any additional rubber washers are and order them.
                              3)As RobP said get a long piece of thread about 1 1/2 foot long or go to a dealer that has one specifically for your speaker. I have a whole kit with all the required tools to fix anything on my 800D's.
                              4)place your fingers on the outer metal ring just below the rubber washer of the speaker if you can't get a threaded piece and press inward to releave the pressure on the screw in back of the speaker. The speaker is connected to that screw by a long metal rod. So by pushing on the speaker infront you releave the pressure in the back on the screw. Start turning the screw and count approx. how many full turns it takes to remove the screw. Since your driver is loose you will get a close approximation.

                              You may need help if you are not long enough to push on the speaker in front with one hand and unscrew the screw in back with the other hand. The advantage of doing it yourself you can feel the tension and not have to rely on someone else's discription if it is tight. It's like giving your your 800 a hug that's the position your in.

                              5)It may seem easy to hold the speaker in place, untighten the screw in back and remove the speaker from the head, but remember, when you pull the speaker out the rod that attaches to the srew comes with it. There is acoustic material in the head that the rod is surrouded by. Be carefull to pull the rod out slowly so that you can return the rod through the same hole in the material to the back of the speaker when you replace the new rubber gasket.

                              When you are ready to place the newly gasketed speaker back in the head, make sure you seat the speaker correctly and evenly all around in the head and have someone start to tighten the screw in back. do not let the speaker slip out while tightening. You will know on the amount of turns required to tighen your speaker once the new rubber gasket is replaced by the tension of the speaker in relation to the screw in back, there shound be no play in front.

                              Follow what some of the guys have told you. Once you feel the tension, start with 1/4 turns and see if the speaker is moving in the head by applying pressure to the outer metal ring by hand or with the rod, by hand is better.

                              One last thought, you may want to ask B&W tech if any adhesive is required on that gasket and get it from them. And rememebr which wire goes where on the speaker when you remove it.


                              Hope this helps.

                              Indy

                              Comment

                              • sc2
                                Member
                                • Feb 2008
                                • 65

                                #16
                                Originally posted by Ash
                                Hi Steve,

                                Which part exactly that you saw for sale on ebay?

                                thanks
                                Ash,

                                I was mistaken on the FSB, but he is and will be offering other N800 items



                                Check it out...
                                Steve

                                Comment

                                • Ash
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Dec 2004
                                  • 191

                                  #17
                                  Indytown,

                                  Thanks alot for the the detailed description and great suggestions you have provided, it was most helpful. I will follow your description of the process as you have indicated.

                                  It seems that you have went through this process before, did you have any problems with your midrange drive on your 800Ds?

                                  2) find out how much a new rubber seal, rear locking screw with any additional rubber washers are and order them.
                                  I already ordered a new rubber gasket, however, I didn't think of the rubber washers or rear locking screws. By rubber washers, you mean the rubber peice that come right before the locking screw (one huge screw on the back), correct? Are there any particular reasons for these two parts to be replaced? Do they easily get damaged on opening?

                                  One last thought, you may want to ask B&W tech if any adhesive is required on that gasket and get it from them.
                                  I will confirm this with B&W technical support. I got some tips from them regarding the replacement procedures. And will also try to get some more info.


                                  Thanks again Indy, highly appreciated :T

                                  Comment

                                  • Ash
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Dec 2004
                                    • 191

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by Race Car Driver
                                    Oh but it did, with my SCM1s and SCMS :lol:
                                    Are you hypnotizing people and/or using black magic to make them sell you all thier amazing speakers. Should I look away from the screen when I see your name!?! I feel it, must resist desire to give speakers to Christopher for free, aaaaah :lol:

                                    Comment

                                    • Ash
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Dec 2004
                                      • 191

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by DM3000 Owner
                                      Here is what B&W's engineer told me. Tighten the screw until all of the slack is taken up and it is snug by hand. i.e. finger tight. Then tighten it one more full turn with a screwdriver.
                                      Thanks for elaborating on this, I will take this into consideration when I get to the tightening part. I appreciated it

                                      :T

                                      Comment

                                      • Ash
                                        Senior Member
                                        • Dec 2004
                                        • 191

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by sc2
                                        Ash,

                                        I was mistaken on the FSB, but he is and will be offering other N800 items



                                        Check it out...
                                        Thanks, I will check it out

                                        Comment

                                        • DM3000 Owner
                                          Senior Member
                                          • Jun 2006
                                          • 475

                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by Ash
                                          Thanks, I will check it out
                                          Just buy directly from B&W. Check out the auction, they have bid the tweeters up to almost the price of new ones. Is it worth it to save $10 on ebay?

                                          Comment

                                          • Ash
                                            Senior Member
                                            • Dec 2004
                                            • 191

                                            #22
                                            Guys, just noticed some imprefections in the FST driver as well, next to where the rubber problem is. I'm attaching a picture. It seems like a very minor issue with the kevlar fabric, right on the outer surround (look closely at the picture, right where the phase plug is and you will see what I mean). I'm guessing that this will not effect the sound, and I should not replace the whole driver? what do you guys think?

                                            Thanks
                                            Attached Files

                                            Comment

                                            • htsteve
                                              Super Senior Member
                                              • Sep 2004
                                              • 1216

                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by Ash
                                              Guys, just noticed some imprefections in the FST driver as well, next to where the rubber problem is. I'm attaching a picture. It seems like a very minor issue with the kevlar fabric, right on the outer surround (look closely at the picture, right where the phase plug is and you will see what I mean). I'm guessing that this will not effect the sound, and I should not replace the whole driver? what do you guys think?

                                              Thanks

                                              I would talk to B&W. Send them the pictures and your concerns. In my experience, they have been good to work with.

                                              Comment

                                              • Indytown
                                                Senior Member
                                                • Apr 2005
                                                • 171

                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by Ash
                                                Indytown,

                                                Thanks alot for the the detailed description and great suggestions you have provided, it was most helpful. I will follow your description of the process as you have indicated.

                                                It seems that you have went through this process before, did you have any problems with your midrange drive on your 800Ds?



                                                I already ordered a new rubber gasket, however, I didn't think of the rubber washers or rear locking screws. By rubber washers, you mean the rubber peice that come right before the locking screw (one huge screw on the back), correct? Are there any particular reasons for these two parts to be replaced? Do they easily get damaged on opening?



                                                I will confirm this with B&W technical support. I got some tips from them regarding the replacement procedures. And will also try to get some more info.


                                                Thanks again Indy, highly appreciated :T
                                                Ash,

                                                I never had any problems with my mid-range driver, my problem 3 years ago was one of the tweeter housings was chipped during shipping. The only way to replace the housing of the tweeter was to take the mid-range out so that the nut in the head could be removed. B&W sent a brand new complete tweeter, new midrange gasket, new screw for rear, new rubber coated washer in front of screw. Great support and follow-up by B&W, the distributor and local dealer.

                                                I personally like new rubber seals to be used when replacing something like what you are doing, adds that tension you need between the midrange infront and the screw in back during the last few 1/4 turns. That rubber washer in the rear does get compressed by the screw, its better if everything is new back there so you have fresh uncompressed rubber. As far as the screw, personal preference, I would like to have one with no marks on it.

                                                As far as your driver, call the B&W tech, the new driver will have to be broken in. If it was me, and I was going to keep the speakers long term, I would by two new mid-range drivers and replace them at the same time when they really get bad.

                                                I would call B&W in England and talk to their tech department and give them your model and year of build and see if any type of mild adhesive is used in the production process to secure the midrange to the head.

                                                Indy

                                                Comment

                                                • Indytown
                                                  Senior Member
                                                  • Apr 2005
                                                  • 171

                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by Ash
                                                  Guys, just noticed some imprefections in the FST driver as well, next to where the rubber problem is. I'm attaching a picture. It seems like a very minor issue with the kevlar fabric, right on the outer surround (look closely at the picture, right where the phase plug is and you will see what I mean). I'm guessing that this will not effect the sound, and I should not replace the whole driver? what do you guys think?

                                                  Thanks
                                                  I would still call B&W tech, I may wrong, but this looks very, very minor. I believe that the foam surround is the real important part.

                                                  Comment

                                                  • Ash
                                                    Senior Member
                                                    • Dec 2004
                                                    • 191

                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by Indytown
                                                    Ash,

                                                    I never had any problems with my mid-range driver, my problem 3 years ago was one of the tweeter housings was chipped during shipping. The only way to replace the housing of the tweeter was to take the mid-range out so that the nut in the head could be removed. B&W sent a brand new complete tweeter, new midrange gasket, new screw for rear, new rubber coated washer in front of screw. Great support and follow-up by B&W, the distributor and local dealer.
                                                    Its the worse thing when you are waiting for somwthing to come badly and then it is damaged or doesn't work properly, but it seems that you issue was cleared without a problem.

                                                    Originally posted by Indytown
                                                    I personally like new rubber seals to be used when replacing something like what you are doing, adds that tension you need between the midrange infront and the screw in back during the last few 1/4 turns. That rubber washer in the rear does get compressed by the screw, its better if everything is new back there so you have fresh uncompressed rubber. As far as the screw, personal preference, I would like to have one with no marks on it.
                                                    I think the new rubber seals is a good idea, I might as well just change it. Thanks for the tip. I dont think that changing the screw is necessary though, but its a good idea.

                                                    Originally posted by Indytown
                                                    As far as your driver, call the B&W tech, the new driver will have to be broken in. If it was me, and I was going to keep the speakers long term, I would by two new mid-range drivers and replace them at the same time when they really get bad.
                                                    I think that I would want to change the drivers of both speakers in a few years. They seem to be fine, small imprefections on one of them but I dont think that it effects the sound

                                                    Originally posted by Indytown
                                                    I would call B&W in England and talk to their tech department and give them your model and year of build and see if any type of mild adhesive is used in the production process to secure the midrange to the head.
                                                    I have made an enquiry regading this and expect a reply soon, thanks

                                                    Originally posted by Indytown
                                                    I would still call B&W tech, I may wrong, but this looks very, very minor. I believe that the foam surround is the real important part.
                                                    I think that I can live with this minor imprefection for a few years cause I dont think that it will affect the sound

                                                    Thanks for everything

                                                    Comment

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