New B&W Series...

[specialized]

There is some rumours that B&W would stop or upgrade 700 series soon, or if they stop 700 that would be new models in CM line up.. Anyone something more detalied and based on facts?

Greetings

Darko

[Antus]

i don't have more detail, but these are from my dealer. he seems like a honest man.

B&W will upgrade the 700 series. it will be one class up from CM series and below 800, of course. the new CM series actually cut into the pricing range of the old 700 series. he will expect the new 700 series to be much more expensive. (especially the weakening of dollars today)

he also "suspect" that once the new 700 series release, b&w might slowly disconnect the 800 "S" series. and push the 800 series's starting point higher than today. ($2800 for 805S). (after thinking about it, it make sense. CM1 is $1000 now, the new 700 small monitor will be like $2000, which will kinda push 805 higher to maybe $4000 plus level. if B&W want to push that price, they will have to fit diamond on it to justify the new price)

according to my dealer, it should happen pretty soon. cause B&W already tell them to clear out the remaining stock of 700 series in early January. so i will expect to see new product something before summer, perhaps.

[Briz vegas]

So badge the 805, 804 and 803 (and associated center speakers) as 700 series speakers and start the 800s with the 803D. Its killing the 700 series in all but name.

That would mean a big jump from a 703 to a 803D, or a darn expensive 703.

Well I am glad I have my 804s as I think the cabinet much prettier than my 705s or the 703.

[Briz vegas]

double post...................oooh look siamese twins :evil: :twisted: :rofl:

[specialized]

New B&W Series...

i don't have more detail, but these are from my dealer. he seems like a honest man.

B&W will upgrade the 700 series. it will be one class up from CM series and below 800, of course. the new CM series actually cut into the pricing range of the old 700 series. he will expect the new 700 series to be much more expensive. (especially the weakening of dollars today)

he also "suspect" that once the new 700 series release, b&w might slowly disconnect the 800 "S" series. and push the 800 series's starting point higher than today. ($2800 for 805S). (after thinking about it, it make sense. CM1 is $1000 now, the new 700 small monitor will be like $2000, which will kinda push 805 higher to maybe $4000 plus level. if B&W want to push that price, they will have to fit diamond on it to justify the new price)

according to my dealer, it should happen pretty soon. cause B&W already tell them to clear out the remaining stock of 700 series in early January. so i will expect to see new product something before summer, perhaps.

I'm asking this becouse im trying to decide which speakers i like.. And i almost push the trigger to get 703, but im not happy becouse there is not good enough center (i'll try both HTM7 and HTM61 and get the better one).. I was thinking that if there is new series this would be fixed, but if the new ones are that more expensive, then maybe it's still clever to get this model becouse i like how it's sound...

And about the price.. 683 are much better and less expensive then 604.. Is it possible something similar in new 700 series? (or the upgraded CM)? Or definitly not much better speaker for much more money?


Darko

[Cactus]

The 700 series should be available throughout the rest of the year and will not have an immediate replacement. Look for that a bit further down the road.

The CM series will be adding a larger set of towers, bookshelves, center, and CM series subwoofer.

Once the 800 series gets a revision (two years is my guess), then a new700 series now fills the price point gap, as i am sure new 800 series goes up in price point.

[Mikael]

The 700 series should be available throughout the rest of the year and will not have an immediate replacement. Look for that a bit further down the road.

The CM series will be adding a larger set of towers, bookshelves, center, and CM series subwoofer.

Once the 800 series gets a revision (two years is my guess), then a new700 series now fills the price point gap, as i am sure new 800 series goes up in price point.

Hi Cactus

Do you know for a fact that the CM range will be adding models, and when will they come?

[george_k]

The 700 series should be available throughout the rest of the year and will not have an immediate replacement.

I also seem to think that B&W will first upgrade/streamline the 800 series before upgrading the 700 series.

It would make sense to me if they choose to do away with the 'S' 800 models.

What I'd like to see as a high-end 700 series type speaker would be the present 803S speaker with whatever improvement they choose to incorporate (cosmetics, crossovers, drivers, bracing...). I certainly hope that "that" new speaker won't be as forward sounding as the present 703's.

[Mikael]

Hi George K
I certainly hope that "that" new speaker won't be as forward sounding as the present 703's.

I totally agree with you that I hope that the new speaker whether it will be more CM models or a new 7 series, is more laidback in the mid and treble, and has more and better bass,than the current 7 series.

[beden1]

Hi George K
I certainly hope that "that" new speaker won't be as forward sounding as the present 703's.

I totally agree with you that I hope that the new speaker whether it will be more CM models or a new 7 series, is more laidback in the mid and treble, and has more and better bass,than the current 7 series.

I have the 703s and the 803Ds. Actually, the 703s are much more laid back and smooth in the mids and highs when powered through the Classe CP-500 and Classe amp. And, the bass is not lacking at all with this set-up.

[joetama]

Hi George K
I certainly hope that "that" new speaker won't be as forward sounding as the present 703's.

I totally agree with you that I hope that the new speaker whether it will be more CM models or a new 7 series, is more laidback in the mid and treble, and has more and better bass,than the current 7 series.

I find that the "forwardness" you speak of to be what makes the 703 a 703 and not just a 804S in a different box. Personally, I like the forward lean sound of the 703. I've spend a lot of time listening to both the 804S & 703 and prefer the 703 slightly over the 804S just because the 804S seems more laid back and relaxed. It doesn't fit my style of listening.

I hope that the *new* series of 700s, when they come out, will still have that characteristic.

Anyway, it seems that if I was B&W I would upgrade the 700 Series with 4-5 new speakers. A new floorstander which would do away with the 804S, finding a balance between the two (Lets call it the 773 Tweeter on top, FST Mid, 2 Rohacell Bass Drivers, Curved Cabinate similar to the current series). A cheaper floorstander with the typical lean agreesive sound of the 700 Series (774, Tweeter on top, FST Mid, 2 Smaller Rohacell Dricers or 1 larger Rohacell Driver, Curved Cabinate). A strong bookshelf to replace where the 805S is (775, Tweeter on top, Kevlar Mid, Curved Cabinate). Then make the 805D to fill in the 800 Series Bookshelf void. And then add a center channel with a bass driver, FST Mid, and tweeter on top. But, make the cabinate much less ugly than the HTM-7.

But, who knows? I don't.

[joetama]

I have the 703s and the 803Ds. Actually, the 703s are much more laid back and smooth in the mids and highs when powered through the Classe CP-500 and Classe amp. And, the bass is not lacking at all with this set-up.

Do you find the change to be more caused by the amplifier or the pre-amp?

When I upgraded amplifiers from my Rotel RB-1080 to the H|H 800 I have the difference was night and day. My RB-1080 is on center channel duty right now. The Bass was better, mids were smoother, and the tweeter had more detail and was a lot lighter. Maybe it is just Rotel that has given the 703 it's harsh rep?

[specialized]

I find that the "forwardness" you speak of to be what makes the 703 a 703 and not just a 804S in a different box. Personally, I like the forward lean sound of the 703. I've spend a lot of time listening to both the 804S & 703 and prefer the 703 slightly over the 804S just because the 804S seems more laid back and relaxed. It doesn't fit my style of listening.

I hope that the *new* series of 700s, when they come out, will still have that characteristic.

Anyway, it seems that if I was B&W I would upgrade the 700 Series with 4-5 new speakers. A new floorstander which would do away with the 804S, finding a balance between the two (Lets call it the 773 Tweeter on top, FST Mid, 2 Rohacell Bass Drivers, Curved Cabinate similar to the current series). A cheaper floorstander with the typical lean agreesive sound of the 700 Series (774, Tweeter on top, FST Mid, 2 Smaller Rohacell Dricers or 1 larger Rohacell Driver, Curved Cabinate). A strong bookshelf to replace where the 805S is (775, Tweeter on top, Kevlar Mid, Curved Cabinate). Then make the 805D to fill in the 800 Series Bookshelf void. And then add a center channel with a bass driver, FST Mid, and tweeter on top. But, make the cabinate much less ugly than the HTM-7.

But, who knows? I don't.

I definitly agree with u.. I finnaly decide which speaker i like more.. I have at my place for maybe two weeks 703, 683 and CM7... 683 is not that good as everyone claim.. The sound is good for HT but not that good for stereo.. CM7 is better speaker, but very laid back, almost muddy sometimes.. (still much more clear then 683).. And the 703 make the feeling like there is live thing at living room.. And im definitly getting this one... In Rosenut color.. About centar, i'm testing in this moment HTM61 and HTM7 and i'll pick the one who sound better with 703. And i agree that HTM7 is one of the ugliest speaker i ever seen. And im thinking how to find space for that
That forward sound thing is what 703 make them so good.. While i was testing those speakers all this time, i went to a live concert and while i had the feeling, i got home and played the same music on all three speakers.. 703 won.. If u like to feel the music get 703.. If u need music in background CM7..


Darko

[george_k]

The "edginess" of the 703 was somewhat tamed when switched out my old gear and switched in a Mac integrated.

I have no complaint about the 703 on some music (typically classical, jazz, blues, soft rock, rock ballads, ..etc)

However, on some of the more aggressive recordings they can be a bit too forward.

[beden1]

I definitly agree with u.. I finnaly decide which speaker i like more.. I have at my place for maybe two weeks 703, 683 and CM7... 683 is not that good as everyone claim.. The sound is good for HT but not that good for stereo.. CM7 is better speaker, but very laid back, almost muddy sometimes.. (still much more clear then 683).. And the 703 make the feeling like there is live thing at living room.. And im definitly getting this one... In Rosenut color.. About centar, i'm testing in this moment HTM61 and HTM7 and i'll pick the one who sound better with 703. And i agree that HTM7 is one of the ugliest speaker i ever seen. And im thinking how to find space for that
That forward sound thing is what 703 make them so good.. While i was testing those speakers all this time, i went to a live concert and while i had the feeling, i got home and played the same music on all three speakers.. 703 won.. If u like to feel the music get 703.. If u need music in background CM7..


Darko

I definitely feel that the Nautilus HTM1 is an excellent center channel speaker, and one that is fantastic used with the 703s as the main speakers. Find yourself a good used one on Audiogon or EBAY and you'll be very pleased with the results.

[specialized]

The "edginess" of the 703 was somewhat tamed when switched out my old gear and switched in a Mac integrated.

I have no complaint about the 703 on some music (typically classical, jazz, blues, soft rock, rock ballads, ..etc)

However, on some of the more aggressive recordings they can be a bit too forward.

I found that make the Live feeling in my room... I test them also if i like to have music in background while working something else... I was listening for long time, and if they were too agresive i would like to stop the music.. But me and my gf, found that it's ok, and we dont have problems with too forward feeling.. I have to say that maybe my cables make a bit softer feeling, but in this moment im listening in room without carpet, a lot of windows, no pictures or something on the walls...So if in this room i dont get them too agresive then maybe their agression is just a mit

Darko

[specialized]

I definitely feel that the Nautilus HTM1 is an excellent center channel speaker, and one that is fantastic used with the 703s as the main speakers. Find yourself a good used one on Audiogon or EBAY and you'll be very pleased with the results.

Im testing in this moment HTM7 and HTM61.. Im a bit tired, and maybe that's the reason, but with both i cant find any dismatch with 703... Or maybe i dont test properly? I have THX demo disc with some parts from movies and some surruound effects. THere is like counting voice and on this part i almost can't hear the difference.. The only part where i can hear the difference (and cant find which center from this two is better match), is a pink noise..

So guys. Help again.. How to find which center is better one? What kind of tests should i do?


Darko

[beden1]

Do you find the change to be more caused by the amplifier or the pre-amp?

When I upgraded amplifiers from my Rotel RB-1080 to the H|H 800 I have the difference was night and day. My RB-1080 is on center channel duty right now. The Bass was better, mids were smoother, and the tweeter had more detail and was a lot lighter. Maybe it is just Rotel that has given the 703 it's harsh rep?

I noticed the big refinement in sound when I changed the amp and the pre-amp at the same time when I hooked up the 703s as my main speakers. They were previously driven solely through my Pioneer Elite receiver. With the receiver, I would have to say that they were very forward/bright and kind of annoying during long listening sessions. After the change, they were much smoother without being boring. The bass was also much more pronounced.

I later switched to the 803Ds for my main speakers and moved the 703s to the surrounds. The 703s are now powered by the Classe amp, but the signal is fed through the Pioneer Elite receiver. In this configuration, the 703s are still very enjoyable to listen to, but are more lively than they were through the Classe pre-amp. They are not in the least annoying, and quite possibly the quality of the amp affects them more than with most speakers.

Typically however, I think the pre-amp would make the most difference.

[beden1]

Im testing in this moment HTM7 and HTM61.. Im a bit tired, and maybe that's the reason, but with both i cant find any dismatch with 703... Or maybe i dont test properly? I have THX demo disc with some parts from movies and some surruound effects. THere is like counting voice and on this part i almost can't hear the difference.. The only part where i can hear the difference (and cant find which center from this two is better match), is a pink noise..

So guys. Help again.. How to find which center is better one? What kind of tests should i do?


Darko

Unfortunately, it takes some time in listening to the HTM7 to find out that it is not a good match with the 703s. I bought one along with my 703s and listened to the combination for about 8 months. This was before I even knew about this forum, so my own conclusions were not influenced in the least.

In the beginning, I noticed something was missing, and then I could hear the mis-match. The voice just seems different and weaker, and the more I listened, the more I became unhappy with the result. I had a Nautilus HTM1 in my other system, and decided to use it on this setup. The difference was remarkable. In fact, the HTM1 is supposed to be a mis-match to my 803Ds, but for home theater, I prefer it's output to the HTM2D. My ears are probably getting old, but the HTM1 just seems clearer to me for voices, etc.

I was going to replace my HTM1 with the HTM2D, but after having the opportunity of a home demo, I'm going to pass for now. I primarily listen to music in 2 channel anyway.

[joetama]

I noticed the big refinement in sound when I changed the amp and the pre-amp at the same time when I hooked up the 703s as my main speakers. They were previously driven solely through my Pioneer Elite receiver. With the receiver, I would have to say that they were very forward/bright and kind of annoying during long listening sessions. After the change, they were much smoother without being boring. The bass was also much more pronounced.

I later switched to the 803Ds for my main speakers and moved the 703s to the surrounds. The 703s are now powered by the Classe amp, but the signal is fed through the Pioneer Elite receiver. In this configuration, the 703s are still very enjoyable to listen to, but are more lively than they were through the Classe pre-amp. They are not in the least annoying, and quite possibly the quality of the amp affects them more than with most speakers.

Typically however, I think the pre-amp would make the most difference.

Indeed I would say that the Pre is usually going to make the most difference. I use the RSP-1098 as my preamplifier and it wasn't bad with the RB-1080 it was very good, but the H|H made it better. I'm sure I thought the same thing when I switched the RSP-1098 and my Yamaha RX-V1500. But, that was so long ago I don't really remember it. I want to get a CP-500 but funds to not allow this purchase right now. But, someday.

Do you like your CP-500? Would you reccomend it for someone using 703?

[Cactus]

Hi Cactus

Do you know for a fact that the CM range will be adding models, and when will they come?

That's what I have been told, although no hard timeframe.

[joetama]

My question after thinking about this thread a little bit is this.

Are they going to release the CT-7 series before they do all of this?

I have been told March 3 times by an article I read, my dealer, and Marc Schnoll (Spelling?) Regional Manager or something @ CES.

[beden1]

Indeed I would say that the Pre is usually going to make the most difference. I use the RSP-1098 as my preamplifier and it wasn't bad with the RB-1080 it was very good, but the H|H made it better. I'm sure I thought the same thing when I switched the RSP-1098 and my Yamaha RX-V1500. But, that was so long ago I don't really remember it. I want to get a CP-500 but funds to not allow this purchase right now. But, someday.

Do you like your CP-500? Would you reccomend it for someone using 703?

Joe,

I think the CP-500 is an excellent piece. It transformed my 2 channel listening to a level that is very satisfying. I made the move to get it through reading Rebelman's discussions on the true benefits of a quality pre-amp, and I thanked him for sharing his expertise after I hooked it up and immediately appreciated the quality.

The CP-500 also made me appreciate how good the 703s actually are, and if I had not already purchased my 803Ds at nearly the same time, I would have been very happy to stay with the 703s. I probably would have added another pair for HT, and kept my HTM1 as the center for a very balanced speaker system.

One of the other great benefits of the CP-500 is the option of the HT pass through which provides flexibility with my receiver for HT.

I'm on the fence right now after reading about the new Classe SSP-800 pre-pro that is coming out. If I decide to go this direction and get one, it would (I guess) eliminate my need for the Pioneer Elite receiver and the CP-500. Before doing so however, I would want to hear an in-depth demonstration and credible opinions on it's 2 channel quality. I would not want to compromise my stereo listening at this point.

If I decide to go in this direction, my CP-500 would become available down the road if you are interested at that time.

[joetama]

Joe,

I think the CP-500 is an excellent piece. It transformed my 2 channel listening to a level that is very satisfying. I made the move to get it through reading Rebelman's discussions on the true benefits of a quality pre-amp, and I thanked him for sharing his expertise after I hooked it up and immediately appreciated the quality.

The CP-500 also made me appreciate how good the 703s actually are, and if I had not already purchased my 803Ds at nearly the same time, I would have been very happy to stay with the 703s. I probably would have added another pair for HT, and kept my HTM1 as the center for a very balanced speaker system.

One of the other great benefits of the CP-500 is the option of the HT pass through which provides flexibility with my receiver for HT.

I'm on the fence right now after reading about the new Classe SSP-800 pre-pro that is coming out. If I decide to go this direction and get one, it would (I guess) eliminate my need for the Pioneer Elite receiver and the CP-500. Before doing so however, I would want to hear an in-depth demonstration and credible opinions on it's 2 channel quality. I would not want to compromise my stereo listening at this point.

If I decide to go in this direction, my CP-500 would become available down the road if you are interested at that time.

You sir are dangling a juicy piece of meat in front of a junk yard dog. :T

[specialized]

You sir are dangling a juicy piece of meat in front of a junk yard dog. :T

I can understund how u feel When i start this upgrade i put my limit just to 683, then i said, ok CM is not that more expensive.. And now 703

I definitly found 703 very enjoyable to listen and i have live feeling in my room..

After reading few posts later, i found out that maybe my Denon 3808 as Pre/Pro and Rotel RB-1080 combination is good and dont make them harsh...

However, i would be proud owner of 703 in RoseNut color..

What about rears? Im thinking to get for rear CM1, or 685..Or i should think definitly about 705? And what about center? HTM7 or HTM61?

Im afraid that sound wont be that coherent if i combine 703 with HTM61 and CM1 (mixing three series)...

Am i doing right?


Darko

[joetama]

I got a pair of DM601 S3 for $309 about 2 years go.

I've been using them for my surrounds. They work just fine and I have never noticed any issues using them... Surrounds aren't used as much as a center channel, so that is why I can justify skimping on the surrounds a little.

[Antus]

if you are thinking 703 ($3300) CM1 ($1000) and HTM61 ($650), total of $4950.

how about 804S ($4500), 686 ($480), and HTM62 ($425), total of $5405.

i think front let/right make about 70% of the movie, and 804 is a much better speaker than 703 in my opinion. it will be the best $1000 in terms of price/performance in my opinion.

[akhter]

The 700 series should be available throughout the rest of the year and will not have an immediate replacement. Look for that a bit further down the road.

The CM series will be adding a larger set of towers, bookshelves, center, and CM series subwoofer.

Once the 800 series gets a revision (two years is my guess), then a new700 series now fills the price point gap, as i am sure new 800 series goes up in price point.

Since late last year, the 700 series was discounted in Japan. It is pretty much extinct the last 2 months--so 700 is definitely on its way out sooner rather than later.

[akhter]

if you are thinking 703 ($3300) CM1 ($1000) and HTM61 ($650), total of $4950.

how about 804S ($4500), 686 ($480), and HTM62 ($425), total of $5405.

i think front let/right make about 70% of the movie, and 804 is a much better speaker than 703 in my opinion. it will be the best $1000 in terms of price/performance in my opinion.

For HT, 60% of all audio is on the center channel--atleast, that is what I have heard. Having a good center channel is key to having focused dialog.

I personally run a 3.1 setup (no space for surrounds) with N804/XTC/Velo DD12.

[Antus]

For HT, 60% of all audio is on the center channel--atleast, that is what I have heard. Having a good center channel is key to having focused dialog.

I personally run a 3.1 setup (no space for surrounds) with N804/XTC/Velo DD12.

if you can pick one between front LR and center channel, which one would u pick?

[scanido]

This thread is pure speculation.

B&W will obviously not replace the 800 "S" series because, believe it or not, this is their bread and butter in the 800 series line up. Spoke to my dealer and he has confirmed that they sell much more "S" models then "D" models.

[jim777]

The "edginess" of the 703 was somewhat tamed when switched out my old gear and switched in a Mac integrated.

I have no complaint about the 703 on some music (typically classical, jazz, blues, soft rock, rock ballads, ..etc)

However, on some of the more aggressive recordings they can be a bit too forward.

Same over here. The 703's with a MA6500 makes great music, but when I demoed them they were harsh with "cheaper" electronics.

The 703 is a superb value, especially that now anyone buying new 703's in Canada also pays a lot less than a few years ago since our dollar has gone up (at least compared to the US).

[joetama]

This thread is pure speculation.

B&W will obviously not replace the 800 "S" series because, believe it or not, this is their bread and butter in the 800 series line up. Spoke to my dealer and he has confirmed that they sell much more "S" models then "D" models.

That is a very valid point which I had not taken into consideration. The S series is still in a very afordable price point, while the D are definatly not.

Same over here. The 703's with a MA6500 makes great music, but when I demoed them they were harsh with "cheaper" electronics.

The 703 is a superb value, especially that now anyone buying new 703's in Canada also pays a lot less than a few years ago since our dollar has gone up (at least compared to the US).

What were the electronics you demoed them with? Rotel?

[specialized]

if you are thinking 703 ($3300) CM1 ($1000) and HTM61 ($650), total of $4950.

how about 804S ($4500), 686 ($480), and HTM62 ($425), total of $5405.

i think front let/right make about 70% of the movie, and 804 is a much better speaker than 703 in my opinion. it will be the best $1000 in terms of price/performance in my opinion.

I have think about that solution as well, but i would like to stop my upgrades for a while, and to have also good home theatar... I think My rotel 1080 is totaly ok for 703, and for 804 i would like to upgrade to something better (McIntosh or maybe Classe or Krell, and that would be a lot more money..)..

So i think 703/HTM7/CM1 would be perfect solution for Home THeater and Stereo in same time...

Or im thinking wrong way again?

Darko

[Antus]

I have think about that solution as well, but i would like to stop my upgrades for a while, and to have also good home theatar... I think My rotel 1080 is totaly ok for 703, and for 804 i would like to upgrade to something better (McIntosh or maybe Classe or Krell, and that would be a lot more money..)..

So i think 703/HTM7/CM1 would be perfect solution for Home THeater and Stereo in same time...

Or im thinking wrong way again?

Darko

703/htm7/cm1 are all great speakers. however, if you are paying $3300 for 703, i will spend the extra and get the 804. the curve back and rohecell on 804 are a bigger improvement than the $1000 in price difference in my opinion.

however, my dealer is doing a clearance on the remaining 700 series speakers. he basically selling it at just little over CM series. In that case, 804 will be twice the price comparing to 703. I will think it's a more fair price for the current 700 series. maybe u should demo both 703 and 804 at ur dealer and see if you can justify the extra cost with the performance difference.

there are many possibilities for $5K speaker package. depends on the room size or other factors. u can even going for 805s ($2800) htm4s ($1200) and 825 or 700 sub. it will be 3.1 setup. i just feel that for $5K, you should at least get 800 series for front LR.

[specialized]

703/htm7/cm1 are all great speakers. however, if you are paying $3300 for 703, i will spend the extra and get the 804. the curve back and rohecell on 804 are a bigger improvement than the $1000 in price difference in my opinion.

however, my dealer is doing a clearance on the remaining 700 series speakers. he basically selling it at just little over CM series. In that case, 804 will be twice the price comparing to 703. I will think it's a more fair price for the current 700 series. maybe u should demo both 703 and 804 at ur dealer and see if you can justify the extra cost with the performance difference.

there are many possibilities for $5K speaker package. depends on the room size or other factors. u can even going for 805s ($2800) htm4s ($1200) and 825 or 700 sub. it will be 3.1 setup. i just feel that for $5K, you should at least get 800 series for front LR.

I'm paying ful price of 703.. I can buy 804s, but i read that in reality that is not that much difference between 703 and 804, and that 804 need something better then Rotel 1080.. Also im not able to spend more for a centar then a HTM61 or HTM7.. So do u think for HT (specialy for upcoming standards), would be better 804S with HTM61 and 686 better then 703/HTM61(HTM7)/CM1 ? We are talking on Denon 3808 Pre/Pro and Rotel RB1080 for the fronts..

If u ever compared 703 vs 804s? What is the main difference in the quality of sound? What kind of difference i would notice?

Darko

p.s. And if i stick to 703, what is better matched center? HTM61 or HTM7?

Darko

[kobestonecold]

Believe me man. The sound quality of 800 series are much better than 700 series.

[joetama]

Believe me man. The sound quality of 800 series are much better than 700 series.

See I don't find this to be true. The voice of the 800 Series is much different than the 700 Series. But, to say that the 804S is superior to the 703 to me is incorrect. 804S, which is a great speaker don't get me wrong, just doesn't have the lean and aggresive high end of the 703. (Which I don't consider to be a hinderence, I find it to be refreshing and revealing.) When I listen to the 804S there is something missing to my ears. It is hard to describe, but personally I would pick the 703 over the 804S. Maybe this is just me.:roll:

The 804S does have marginally better bass, and the cabinate design has benefits.

I guess the 703 just doesn't have a popular sound. But, I will say that if he can afford to get into the 804S then he most definatly should listen to them and ponder them into this whole mess.

I think sometimes we all, including myself, forget that you should get what sounds the best to us. Not what sounds the best to someone else.

[Ted]

I'm paying ful price of 703.. I can buy 804s, but i read that in reality that is not that much difference between 703 and 804, and that 804 need something better then Rotel 1080.. Also im not able to spend more for a centar then a HTM61 or HTM7.. So do u think for HT (specialy for upcoming standards), would be better 804S with HTM61 and 686 better then 703/HTM61(HTM7)/CM1 ? We are talking on Denon 3808 Pre/Pro and Rotel RB1080 for the fronts..

If u ever compared 703 vs 804s? What is the main difference in the quality of sound? What kind of difference i would notice?

Darko

p.s. And if i stick to 703, what is better matched center? HTM61 or HTM7?

Darko

Darko,

I debated for about a year between the 703 and 804. I really wanted to want the 804 and was willing to pay the price difference between the two if I felt it was worth it. I liked the 804s more than the 703, but not for the price difference (and again I was willing to spend the money). I know some people like joetama have heard a difference in the bass, but I didn't (just shows that we all hear differently), to me the big difference was in the tweeters with 703 being more forward than the 804s. I've said it in other posts, unless I have it turned up louder than I have any need to, I don't find the forward nature of the 703 a problem, and like joetama, I think "I find it to be refreshing and revealing". I also have never found them fatiguing.

I run mine with Rotel equipment (rcd-1072, rc-1070, and rb-1080) and rather enjoy the sound. I think for the money, Rotel is hard to beat. If funds were not an issue, I'd look into Classe more, but I have other toys I like to buy too...

Ultimately, you have to live with your purchase, and we won't, so let your ears be the judge. If I 'm spending your money, I think you need Classe equipment with 800D's, that's just if I was you... I'm happy with my 703s! :W

[joetama]

Darko,

I debated for about a year between the 703 and 804. I really wanted to want the 804 and was willing to pay the price difference between the two if I felt it was worth it. I liked the 804s more than the 703, but not for the price difference (and again I was willing to spend the money). I know some people like joetama have heard a difference in the bass, but I didn't (just shows that we all hear differently), to me the big difference was in the tweeters with 703 being more forward than the 804s. I've said it in other posts, unless I have it turned up louder than I have any need to, I don't find the forward nature of the 703 a problem, and like joetama, I think "I find it to be refreshing and revealing". I also have never found them fatiguing.

I run mine with Rotel equipment (rcd-1072, rc-1070, and rb-1080) and rather enjoy the sound. I think for the money, Rotel is hard to beat. If funds were not an issue, I'd look into Classe more, but I have other toys I like to buy too...

Ultimately, you have to live with your purchase, and we won't, so let your ears be the judge. If I 'm spending your money, I think you need Classe equipment with 800D's, that's just if I was you... I'm happy with my 703s! :W

I must say that it is a subtle difference in bass.

Over the summer I moved from an on Campus apartment to an off campus apartment and there was a gap in the leases. So, I moved my system into my parents basement.

Upstairs in the 'listening' room was my dads 804S. So needless to say I did a lot of walking up and down stairs with bundles of CDs clutched in my arms.

I even got to the point where I was taking CDs which my dad and I both had copies of and had them cued in both systems. Listening to a few songs, running upstairs and listening to the same songs.

I think a lot of people are straight out going to recommend what they have themselves, which there is nothing wrong with. They are happy with their purchases so you most likely would be too. But, I doubt many folks have had the opportunity to play with both speakers. Plus I think the 703 have a bad wrap for some reason, and a lot of the dislike is a club thing.

There were a few times I had 4 systems in the house. My 703 System, my Dad's 804S, some old DM330i, and some Meyer UPJ w/ Yamaha DM1000 Digital Console (pro-audio but great sounding).

It was an interesting summer.

[Ted]

I must say that it is a subtle difference in bass.

Over the summer I moved from an on Campus apartment to an off campus apartment and there was a gap in the leases. So, I moved my system into my parents basement.

Upstairs in the 'listening' room was my dads 804S. So needless to say I did a lot of walking up and down stairs with bundles of CDs clutched in my arms.

I even got to the point where I was taking CDs which my dad and I both had copies of and had them cued in both systems. Listening to a few songs, running upstairs and listening to the same songs.

I think a lot of people are straight out going to recommend what they have themselves, which there is nothing wrong with. They are happy with their purchases so you most likely would be too. But, I doubt many folks have had the opportunity to play with both speakers. Plus I think the 703 have a bad wrap for some reason, and a lot of the dislike is a club thing.

There were a few times I had 4 systems in the house. My 703 System, my Dad's 804S, some old DM330i, and some Meyer UPJ w/ Yamaha DM1000 Digital Console (pro-audio but great sounding).

It was an interesting summer.

What a rough summer!! ;x( What shall I listen to today? Decisions Decisions Decisions...

Yes, fans of the 703 do seem to run thin around here sometimes, but we know what we like... I certainly haven't heard close to all the current offerings from B & W, let a lone older ones, but really I've never heard anything I didn't like.

[Antus]

why not go to the dealer near u and listen for urself.

to my ears, the 804s are in a totally different class compare to 703. the bass is tighter, more control, the midrange is smoother and the tweeter is sweeter. by comparison, the upper midrange of 703 sounds harsh and less controlled. i suspect most of the improvement are the cabinet related. the matrix structure and curve back can stop vibration better than box style. However, with that said, sound is really personal taste. a bright sound can be describe as harsh and detail at the same time by different people.

another thing to consider that 800 series are always an classic from B&W. from the old M8xx to N8xx to the latest 8xxD all hold their value pretty well compare to other series.

looks like your total system budget is around 8 to 10K. for the money, i might design the system from the ground up, rather than mix and match different things. you are not only mixing different speakers but also mixing amp power. (rotel for front, and receiver for center and rear) Rotel and Denon have different sounds. Denon more on the warm side, and Rotel is more neutual.

if i were u, this is what i will do
front LR: 805s ($2800)
front center: htm4s ($1500)
rear: 685 ($650)
sub: ASW 750 ($1750)
pre/pro: Integra DTC-9.8 ($1600)
5 channel amp: Rotel RMB 1075 ($1000)

u will have same top quality speakers for all front. and sonically match for all channel due to the 5 channel amp.

[specialized]

why not go to the dealer near u and listen for urself.

to my ears, the 804s are in a totally different class compare to 703. the bass is tighter, more control, the midrange is smoother and the tweeter is sweeter. by comparison, the upper midrange of 703 sounds harsh and less controlled. i suspect most of the improvement are the cabinet related. the matrix structure and curve back can stop vibration better than box style. However, with that said, sound is really personal taste. a bright sound can be describe as harsh and detail at the same time by different people.

another thing to consider that 800 series are always an classic from B&W. from the old M8xx to N8xx to the latest 8xxD all hold their value pretty well compare to other series.

looks like your total system budget is around 8 to 10K. for the money, i might design the system from the ground up, rather than mix and match different things. you are not only mixing different speakers but also mixing amp power. (rotel for front, and receiver for center and rear) Rotel and Denon have different sounds. Denon more on the warm side, and Rotel is more neutual.

if i were u, this is what i will do
front LR: 805s ($2800)
front center: htm4s ($1500)
rear: 685 ($650)
sub: ASW 750 ($1750)
pre/pro: Integra DTC-9.8 ($1600)
5 channel amp: Rotel RMB 1075 ($1000)

u will have same top quality speakers for all front. and sonically match for all channel due to the 5 channel amp.

The problem is that i cant get 804s at my place.. I had for maybe three weeks 683, CM7 and 703 in same time at my place connected to my equmpent.. So i have a nice chance to find which speaker i like.. I got a lot of help from this forum (specialy thanks to joetama), and from my gf which was singing in choir and she had a lot of live experience with music.. Also i invited a lot of my friends, and after every song, i was writing down my opinion, and ask for opinion from other.. I was asking to write down before we start share opinion, just to be sure that we wont change our minds when we start talking... I found out that 703 need a long break in period, becouse at the start (i got brand new pair), i didnt like them at all.. After one week, all the negative things (like totaly boomy bass), have changed.. It's funny that in start we prefered 683, then 703, then CM7.. After one week of listening we found that 683 is bad speaker.. It was very muddy, and a lot of not good bass.. And also the sound was not directional.. I could hear something like echo and not that detalied.. So we agreed that CM7 sound much better.. Then aften listening and comparing CM7 and 703, i have to say that reading how 703 are harsh and too agresive, i decide to go with CM7 and i bring back 703 to the dealer. But Something was missing in my ears.. So i ask if its possible to get them again, and to compare few more things.. We found that CM sound is more tiresome becose is very laid back and have muddy sound compared to 703.. We actually like how 703 sound.. Last week we went to live concert of one rock band here (Disciplina Kitchme), and while we have live sound in our ears played the same things from concert on both speakers.. And.. 703 make Live Sound Stage in my living room... CM7 was like speaker which u dont listen, just have a music in background.. And again.. 703 sound totaly changed in positive way.. Everythhing become more controled, more tight.. And they are not tiresome at all.. We made the last test, like we played music and read the book, or working something.. If they were agressive, we would like to stop the music.. But we booth agreed that it's not a problem.. Also i really like that on very silent level of sound all the details are there..

So i want to tell that i dont have the chance to bring 804s at home and to compare directly to 703.. I can go to dealer showplace, which is totaly different sounding room then my, and to hear there 804s on different equipment. So i can't get real difference this way

About mixing compoments.. Maybe that's the key that i dont find them harsh or agressive? I got DENON receiver, becouse i like HT sound as well, and also sometimes i play videogames on my XBOX... And i like all the technology gadets things.. Before this i have test Marantz, Onkyo, Denon, Rotel surround processor, and i found that i really like DENON.. Before this Denon i had 2807 and replaced with this one, becouse 3808 have network, much better audisey version, firmware upgrades from the net, HDMI 1.3....

And with mixing Denon and Rotel i think i get the best compromise from both worlds.. Good Surround, all technology that Denon provide, and very good stereo sistem (im listening in Pure Audio mode).

So if i get 804s it would almost on blind test.. Also i have in this moment both centers (HTM7 and HTM61), so i can compare how they sound in my room.. Again.. If i go with 804 i dont have this kind of chances to try everything and compare how they sound together...

I found out the negative things from 703, and i know i can live with them..
I dont know what can be negative on 804 in my place, so i dont want to risk to get them and to find out that they are totaly dismatch with center (HTM61), or that they sound not in way we like...
Still.. I would definitly give them a chance at dealer showroom..


Darko

[Briz vegas]

I think either the 703 or 804 is a great purchase. Whatever you buy there is always a better speaker out there (unless you are Aldo - lucky guy)

I am a little surprised that many folks talk in fairly simplistic terms about the differences, but I hear alot of audiophiles talking in terms of smoother mids and less bright highs and more controlled bass as if that is all that differs. Maybe for them it is, but that has not been my experience.

Warning - off topic rant.

As I have refined my system I find that I am looking for things like a more cohesive sound, better timing, more emotion in the vocals and more convincing instruments. High hats that don't Shhh shhh shhh, but rather tssshhhhh tssshhhhh tssshhhhh. Vocals where you can hear a slight breaking in the voice or details in the tone the make it much easier to read the emotion that the singer has put into the song. Guitars or other instuments where you can almost hear if the strings are new or not.

I am seeking the elements of realism that have survived the recording process. For me it has revealed itself slowly with each change that I have made since getting my 804s. (not to say that the 703 cannot do something similar). To some these things might be subtle and not worth the money, for me they are pure ear candy. Then again I like going into music shops just on the off chance that someone is trying out a guitar, just to enjoy the sound of the real thing without compression and with all those resonances.

I can tighten the bass and improve the clarity in my system by going to the ironing cupboard, dragging out the ironing board and leaning it against the only corner I have behind my gear - tighter bass, clearer mids etc etc. If the recording is a little thin, which only applies to a small percentage of my CDs, i just remove the ironing board. Less detail,more warmth. Who needs tone controls :W

Here endith the rant.

[specialized]

I think either the 703 or 804 is a great purchase. Whatever you buy there is always a better speaker out there (unless you are Aldo - lucky guy)

I am a little surprised that many folks talk in fairly simplistic terms about the differences, but I hear alot of audiophiles talking in terms of smoother mids and less bright highs and more controlled bass as if that is all that differs. Maybe for them it is, but that has not been my experience.

Warning - off topic rant.

As I have refined my system I find that I am looking for things like a more cohesive sound, better timing, more emotion in the vocals and more convincing instruments. High hats that don't Shhh shhh shhh, but rather tssshhhhh tssshhhhh tssshhhhh. Vocals where you can hear a slight breaking in the voice or details in the tone the make it much easier to read the emotion that the singer has put into the song. Guitars or other instuments where you can almost hear if the strings are new or not.

I am seeking the elements of realism that have survived the recording process. For me it has revealed itself slowly with each change that I have made since getting my 804s. (not to say that the 703 cannot do something similar). To some these things might be subtle and not worth the money, for me they are pure ear candy. Then again I like going into music shops just on the off chance that someone is trying out a guitar, just to enjoy the sound of the real thing without compression and with all those resonances.

I can tighten the bass and improve the clarity in my system by going to the ironing cupboard, dragging out the ironing board and leaning it against the only corner I have behind my gear - tighter bass, clearer mids etc etc. If the recording is a little thin, which only applies to a small percentage of my CDs, i just remove the ironing board. Less detail,more warmth. Who needs tone controls :W

Here endith the rant.

I talked to my dealer, and he would give me 804s at home for a few days to compare against 703 (which i still have them)..

Today i bring all my equimpent there, and in their room, i found this things:

1. 804s very soft sound, but still with many details .. Wonderfull feeling specialy on acoustic instruments
2. I have to push volume higher then on 703 in their room (smaller then my room but very good acoustic, everything damped). In my room there is no carpet, not so much furniture.. So i'll compare at my place as well..
3. On Rock bands, there was like a muddy parts when a agresive part have come with a lot of instruments..

4. I got idea that 804s have better depth, but again.. Maybe it's becouse of their room..


Anyway, i'll get them tommorow, and would have a chance to listen them compared to 703 for few days.. I'll definitly let u know what i found out, and what i decided..

greetings

Darko