in love with XT series in black

[aquaanox]

I am currently running CM7s for the fronts, CMC center and a velodyne SPR sub, all driven by a rotel 1057..

went to the local dealer yesterday and fell in love with the piano black XT series and a PV1 sub... should i upgrade.. ??

[george_k]

don't you mean downgrade?

[GregLett]

don't you mean downgrade?

I would call that an upgrade. Don't underestimate the XT series.

[GregLett]

I am currently running CM7s for the fronts, CMC center and a velodyne SPR sub, all driven by a rotel 1057..

went to the local dealer yesterday and fell in love with the piano black XT series and a PV1 sub... should i upgrade.. ??

Also if the Rotel you have is 75W per. that will not do the XT4 Justice, They perform much better with a 200W amp. I owned them for a year so I had a chance to hear them with different amps. They also like the Nuforce amps, did not hear them with the Rotel Class D stuff though.

[lvhung]

Dont uy them just because it's beatiful

[aquaanox]

Dont uy them just because it's beatiful

i know... but they would look so good with the piano black pioneer plasma... honestly though, i heard them in the store, and i cant tell a big difference in sound from the CMs. i really dont want to drop the cash on 800s just yet, so what are the other options? im not sure if i want the 700 series.. i prefer the asthetics of the CMs to the 700s..

yes, i am a sucker for beautiful things

[WI Rotel]

Definite upgrade, however, a 75w amp will most definitely not do. If so driven you would probably be very disappointed. If used only for stereo you will at least need 125W just for them. If you use a multichannel receiver for 5.1 I would recommend no less than 200W/channel. For a dedicated multichannel amp 125W (like the RMB 1075) will do just fine. The XT4 is a very difficult drive specifically at higher volume levels. On my system I have them on their own RB 1080 (200W) which drives them simply beautifuly. I use an RMB 1095 for the other 5 speakers, XT2's and XTC (a little overkill but I already owned the 1095). The problem with power ratings is that most receivers quote 20-20K hz power for stereo only. When they quote "all channels driven" they are talking at 1khz. On multichannel power amps the "all channels driven" spec is more commonly 20-20k. BTW, I did get to see the towers in black and I must concur they are stunning, they are even a step above the already beautiful silver ones.
If this is going to break your bank (speakers+amp) forget it, it will definitely look and sound significantly better but its not going to be the kind of difference like when you ditch some crappy bose for some BW's :W

[aquaanox]

doesnt the rotel 1057 go upto 125w per channell when used in 2 channel mode? For music i almost always listen in 2 channel.. and switch to surround for movies etc..

Whats interesting is that i did buy a 1070 with my cm7s but couldnt tell the difference in that setup vs just with the 1057, so i returned it.

[WI Rotel]

doesnt the rotel 1057 go upto 125w per channell when used in 2 channel mode? For music i almost always listen in 2 channel.. and switch to surround for movies etc..

Whats interesting is that i did buy a 1070 with my cm7s but couldnt tell the difference in that setup vs just with the 1057, so i returned it.

Note: the 1057 is 100W stereo, the 1067 is 125.

The 1067 drives them quite satisfactorily on stereo only. One problem that I had was that I got hooked to listening to music in surround, where it definitely strains the receiver's power. Any length of high level surround music reproduction would quickly overheat the 1067 I originally purchased.
My rule of thumb in amplification is that you can never have too much, unfortunately with inefficient speakers the problem of too little power is more of a pressing issue.

[aquaanox]

Ok, the xt's are finally home! now i need an amp.. Im trying to decide between muscial fidelity a5 or a rotel 1080 (significantly cheaper).. So what would be the best bang for the buck ? for $1000 - $2000..

thanks..

[WI Rotel]

Ok, the xt's are finally home! now i need an amp.. Im trying to decide between muscial fidelity a5 or a rotel 1080 (significantly cheaper).. So what would be the best bang for the buck ? for $1000 - $2000..

thanks..

The 1080 drives them beautifully, you will definitely not be disappointed. The 1080 is one darned fine amp for a very good price. Some may argue that it is actually more amp than you need! :T

[GregLett]

The 1080 drives them beautifully, you will definitely not be disappointed. The 1080 is one darned fine amp for a very good price. Some may argue that it is actually more amp than you need! :T

I second that. :T The 1080 is great bang for the buck. An the the XT's will love them. You really need 200W to have control over those woofers.

[aquaanox]

what do you guys think of the parasound halo a23 ? that would be the other option in that price range.. ive heard a a21 and it sounded a bit warmer then the rotel 1070 .. i have no experience with the 1080.

[aquaanox]

the research continues.. alright im convinced that i need 150W+. now my choices are -

rotel rb-1080 - $1000
parasound halo a21 - $1900
b&k ref 200.2 s2 ??
vincent audio 331 - $900 or so, but its not clear whether it has a 12 volt trigger for power..

my only fear with the rotel is that it might be a big too bright with the xt4's ? at-least i know that the 1070 is a brighter sounding amp, and i would prefer something more neutral..

suggestions ??

[GregLett]

the research continues.. alright im convinced that i need 150W+. now my choices are -

rotel rb-1080 - $1000
parasound halo a21 - $1900
b&k ref 200.2 s2 ??
vincent audio 331 - $900 or so, but its not clear whether it has a 12 volt trigger for power..

my only fear with the rotel is that it might be a big too bright with the xt4's ? at-least i know that the 1070 is a brighter sounding amp, and i would prefer something more neutral..

suggestions ??

A better match for the XT would be a used Classe 200W amp. I've never heard the Parasound, but I've heard the XT with Rotel and Classe, and I would go for the Classe hands down.

[Briz vegas]

A better match for the XT would be a used Classe 200W amp. I've never heard the Parasound, but I've heard the XT with Rotel and Classe, and I would go for the Classe hands down.

You could probably get by with 150w or even 100w of Classe power. I have heard ML Aerius with a 150w Classe integrated and it was as sweet as (mate!)

[aquaanox]

guys - so i went to my local dealer today, to listen to the RB-1080, and they just happenned to have a demo that i got a great deal on. while i was there the salesguy, who owns 805's with a 1080 himself, convinced me to also listen to the RB-1072, claiming that it would sound much better than the 1080 even though is only rated at 100W. anyway, i ended up getting both amps to take home and try tonight! so we'll see.. Ive decided to stay at around $1000 for now for an amplifier..

[WI Rotel]

guys - so i went to my local dealer today, to listen to the RB-1080, and they just happenned to have a demo that i got a great deal on. while i was there the salesguy, who owns 805's with a 1080 himself, convinced me to also listen to the RB-1072, claiming that it would sound much better than the 1080 even though is only rated at 100W. anyway, i ended up getting both amps to take home and try tonight! so we'll see.. Ive decided to stay at around $1000 for now for an amplifier..

Let us know how it goes. The 1072 should be powerful enough but I'm not certain if a class D amp will be as refined as a 1080. Give them both a workout both at low and high power levels for extended periods with the same music. I'm betting on the 1080 specifically in the low frequencies given its overwhelmingly higher damping factor and much higher power capacity, but I haven't heard the 1072 so I could be surprised :T

[aquaanox]

alright, a few hours with both the 1072 and the 1080.. and the winner is..

the 1080!! by a long shot. The performance of the 1072 was satisfactory, but it simply lacked the punch of the 1080 at both lows and the mids and the same volume level. Even my non audioholic wife could tell the difference in the overall depth of the 2 amps. I think both amps were fairly comprable at high frequencies.. But the difference in horsepower is clear. Im glad i listened to some of you and went with 200W for the XT4's. maybe in a year or two ill upgrade to a classe or a mcintosh.. we'll see, but the 1072 is going back to the dealer tomorrow for sure.

a couple of questions:

1) im using the 12 volt trigger cable from the rotel 1057 (out) to the 1080 (in). When i turn the 1057 off, it does send a signal to the 1080, and the red protection light comes on and then slowly fades away, however the blue light on the 1080 stays on. Is that normal?

2) when listening to certain types of music, the xt4's seem a bit boomy. Ive placed them about 3 feet away from the walls, and am considering using the plugs, however there are 2 flowports on the speakers. Which one to plug ?

3) Do the XT4s have a break-in period ? and do they sound better after a certain number of hours ?

[hifiguymi]

It is normal for the light to stay on the RB-1080 (and any Rotel amp for that matter) when they are turned off by a trigger. As long as you see the protection light flash on and off you know the amp is off.

Plug both ports at the same time. Both of the ports are for the woofers in that speaker. You could experiment with just one, but it doesn't matter which one.

Yes, the XT4's have a break in period. All speakers do. You will notice the biggest change after about 100 hours. If you can, just let them play all day to get past that 100 our mark the quickest. It doesn't have to loud, just have something playing through them.

Eric

[WI Rotel]

It is normal for the light to stay on the RB-1080 (and any Rotel amp for that matter) when they are turned off by a trigger. As long as you see the protection light flash on and off you know the amp is off.

Plug both ports at the same time. Both of the ports are for the woofers in that speaker. You could experiment with just one, but it doesn't matter which one.

Yes, the XT4's have a break in period. All speakers do. You will notice the biggest change after about 100 hours. If you can, just let them play all day to get past that 100 our mark the quickest. It doesn't have to loud, just have something playing through them.

Eric

Eric is right on the money on all aspects, on the plugging however, test with both or with one plug (it doesn't matter which hole you plug) since they will affect the bottom end differently. With both the attenuation will be around 10 hz higher.
On swapping amps in the future my recommendation is simple, don't. Your money is better invested on some PV'1s (2 if possible) the XT does have excellent bass for a slim speaker but its limitations compared to bigger cabinets are obvious. The PV1 is an excellent and seamless addition which will "complete" the XT4. If your venue is small one PV1 is enough if its bigger 2 will blow your mind! The PV1 is without a doubt the least colored sub in the market but its output is on the low side an obvious effect of its small size. With the sub (or subs) it becomes really simple then all you have to do is set the crossover at 60Hz and you are done.
I realize that we're not talking small change here ($) but the results have to be heard to be appreciated. A pair of XT4 with a pair of PV1's sound incredible while they still cost about half what a pair of 802's will run you. While the sound will be very close for stereo (the 802 mids and ultra highs are second to none) it will actually be superior for HT given the XT's outstanding dispersion characteristics.
Congrats, I hope you enjoy the sound and and looks of your XT's for a long time :T

[aquaanox]

Well, i already have the Velodyne spl-r 1000.. but for 2 channel, in using the stereo bypass on the rotel 1057 and no-sub. For some reason, i feel that music should be heard in 2 channel and a sub is not needed. Am i wrong?

[hifiguymi]

Regardless of what some people on the forum say (listening RebleMan?) you can use a sub when listening to music. If you don't want to, then don't. It's all about what you like or don't.

Eric

[WI Rotel]

Regardless of what some people on the forum say (listening RebleMan?) you can use a sub when listening to music. If you don't want to, then don't. It's all about what you like or don't.

Eric

Completely agree here too! The velodyne is a fine sub. Simply go to the speaker setup of your pre and set the crosover at 60Hz and you're done. Subs are perfect for stereo reproduction. One point that sub manufactureers don't tell you is that subs can be localized by ear, they always tell you that low frequencies are non directional, however that is only partially true. If you sit your sub in the corner of a room, the sound pressure in that corner will be higher than at the opposite corner, thus low frequency response will be uneven throughout the room. If using one try to find a spot close to the speakers, even better between them, not the other side of the room. If you are very picky you may opt for a second velodyne to balance everything out, as I did with my PV1. :T

[aquaanox]

will post pictures for you guys tomorrow/friday. Im still experimenting with the foam plugs to attenuate the bass. Whats interesting is that my CM7s came with hollow foam plugs, and the one's with the xt4's arent hollow .. btw, im lovin the 1080, what a great amp for the price. sweet!

[WI Rotel]

will post pictures for you guys tomorrow/friday. Im still experimenting with the foam plugs to attenuate the bass. Whats interesting is that my CM7s came with hollow foam plugs, and the one's with the xt4's arent hollow .. btw, im lovin the 1080, what a great amp for the price. sweet!

I'm sure the solid ones are cheaper :W. Again, if you set the preamps crossover at 60 you may not have to use the bungs at all. My XT are barely inches from the back wall. In my case they are set at 60 and I cover only one hole. IMO the biggest problem with setting them too close to the rear wall is upper bass "boomyness". I would also avoid setting them in the corners of the room. Check my pics. My room is a little unusual but it might give you some ideas. Another, point, you can set them pretty close together and still maintain excellent stereo separation, due to their wide dispersion characteristics.
From BW's description and my personal experience, the XT is an evolution of the FPM, the FPM were great for HT but pretty mediocre for audio only, the XT was developed to bridge that gap. It still maintains excellent HT characteristics while its audio performance is top notch. When used with a sub it enhances not only HT(where it pretty much required) but audio as well.
Plus, of course, they look darned good! Looking forward to the pics!

[aquaanox]

Pics

WIRotel : thanks for all the help.. the system is finally coming together.. just waiting on my clearaudio pre-amp, and shunyata power cables for now..

attaching some pictures from earlier in the evening ..

[WI Rotel]

SWEEEEET! You even have a turntable! Mine has been gathering dust for more than a decade :E . My grandfather passed away a few years ago leaving behind one of the biggest and most pristine collections of audiophile classical and acoustic music LPs. Literally close to a thousand if not more titles which are simply laying aimlessly at my grandma's home! I'm still waiting for my builder to find some free time so he can build a platform for my new Elite KURO so my updated system is "pictureworthy" once again!

[btf1980]

First thing I noticed in those pics was the Eileen Gray end table that your turntable is on. Talk about quality and class defined. Contemporary furniture gels so well with high end audio. I like it!!

[aquaanox]

thanks guys, i will try to take some better pictures this weekend in the daylight of the whole room. btw, that clearaudio turntable with the benz cartridge makes me never want to listen to a CD again. Ive be re-investing in vinyl and buying records from musicdirect recently. Pink Floyd's dark side of the moon sounds simply amazing on LP. No hisses or pops, just sounds very real. Its amazing what a difference a dedicated amp makes as well. My 1057 by itself with the now gone CM7s was good, but nothing spectacular. I wish i had the 1080 with the CM7's to really hear their true potential.

I do have another strange problem. See that medusa lamp, its plugged into a circuit separete from the HT setup which is on its own dedicated 15 amp circuit and connected to the monster power center. Nothing else is on that circuit. Everytime i turn that lamp on, with no music playing i can hear a very faint hum from the speakers, not audible when there is actual stuff playing through the speakers. Ive tried plugging the lamp into difference sockets around the room but it made no difference. Any ideas.. ? It doesnt make any sense to me as to why this is happenning.

[WI Rotel]

?????? If the lamp is on a completely different circuit it should not affect your system. If everything is connected to an isolator even less! Maybe that medusa has a very big magnetic footprint that is interfering with the wires in the wall?????? Inquiring minds want to know. However, since you know its the lamp the fix is very simple, move the lamp elsewhere or simply leave it off

[aquaanox]

?????? If the lamp is on a completely different circuit it should not affect your system. If everything is connected to an isolator even less! Maybe that medusa has a very big magnetic footprint that is interfering with the wires in the wall?????? Inquiring minds want to know. However, since you know its the lamp the fix is very simple, move the lamp elsewhere or simply leave it off

i have no idea why it interfers.. ive just unplugged it and will find a speaker freindly replacement lamp.. never thought this would become a problem one day.

[GregLett]

i have no idea why it interfers.. ive just unplugged it and will find a speaker freindly replacement lamp.. never thought this would become a problem one day.

Everything in the room is most likely on the same phase back at the breaker panel. Would be my guess

[aquaanox]

Everything in the room is most likely on the same phase back at the breaker panel. Would be my guess

You're probably right Greg. Anyway, the lamp is disconnected, and now im waiting on a clearaudio phono preamp that i ordered last week, it never ends does it my wife is tired of all the boxes. Btw i upgraded all the power cables to shunyata venom's or audioquest nrg's. The soundstage seems to have improved a hair, and bass is a bit cleaner than before. Though it could also be that things are begining to break in a bit. More than anything, changing power cords helped cleanup some of the cable clutter i had back there. Those shunyata's are impressive looking!