Which B&W Speakers For Surround w/D's?

[gostan]

I am moving into a new condo in a few weeks. My current set up is 803D's and HTM2D up front and a pair of N805's for surround.

The condo is already finished, so I am having a friend/installer run some in wall nordost wiring in ceiling for rear/surrounds. Since I am doing this, I am considering opting for either some in walls or a pair of SCMS for surround purposes as this would get the surrounds off of their stands and the floor and provide better dispersion of surround audio in the entire room.

Any thoughts from SCMS users? And does B&W have any in walls that would mate/be acceptable with my D's up front. By the way, I do not have a great interest in MC SACD 5.1 as I am more of a 2 channel/stereo guy for music.

[Blindamood]

I have a pair of SCMS for my surrounds, and I love 'em (together with 805S/HTM4S in the front). Replaced a pair of stand-mounted CDM 1NTs. Since there is no 'D' in the smaller speakers, I think these are a great option for you. The mounting height and the ability to angle the speakers gives me a much better sense of being 'surrounded' than with the stand-mounts.

Here's a link to a related thread, tho' not specific to 'D's either:

Which Rear Speakers with 804S?

[hifiguymi]

As an in-wall option look at the CWM8180. It has an FST midrange and a Rohacell woofer. It's a wonderfull sounding in-wall and works well with the 800 Series.

Eric

[RebelMan]

Hey Stan, I have a pair of SCMS that I used with the 803S and still use but now with the 800D. For home theater duties I have found the SCMS to integrate seemlessly with the front soundfield in both cases. I considered in-walls at one point too but was opposed to their crippling inflexibility. The SCMS are adjustable in vertical and horizontal directions which makes seemless integration simpler and more achievable. Remember home theater should mimic full blown cinemas. Last I checked cinemas don't use in-walls. In-walls are for lifestyles that put esthetics first and sound quality second. If I ever move up to a 7.1 configuration I intend to add another pair of SCMS, I am that pleased.

[gostan]

My B&W dealer/salesperson (who would love to sell me some new speakers-in wall or on wall) is of the opinion that I would not be satisfied with the sound of any in wall speaker and that I should really take another look at keeping my 805's in place. He thinks that their sound will likely offset any placement issues.

The SCMS, in his opinion, would be second choice.

Of course, he would love to sell me a pair of 804's. Ha Ha. :
I guess I will take a closer look at the room tomorrow.

[Glenee]

RebelMan Quote:In-Walls are for lifestyles that put pure esthetics first and sound quality second.
Glenee Quote: In-Walls are for Harmony, Peace, and Sex first.

[RebelMan]

Stan, how are your N805 mounted? According to Dolby they (the drivers) should be mounted about 2 - 3 feet above the ear. Are you able to achieve this requirement for optimal performance?

Glenee, point very well taken! LOL I can assure you though the SCMS are harmonious, peaceful and sexy too if implemented with some thought and care. My wife has never complained of them. Now the 800D... that's a different story!

[Glenee]

James, My wife always comments about our R2D2 speakers we have.

[RebelMan]

Hee hee. Gotta love them... both. My wife, oddly enough, actually likes the look of the "platformed" 800D better than the 803S I had before. The "black balls" as she calls them does better to conceal the free standing tweeter. She couldn't stand the way the tweeter stood out on the 803S. On the other hand the, 800D are much bigger and of course any WAF gains I previously earned with the 800D were now lost. Oh well. Win some lose some.

[RobP]

Remember home theater should mimic full blown cinemas.

:throwup: :lol: :W

I don't ever want my home theater sounding like a commercial theater, in every theater I have ever worked on, or been in, the surrounds are set up too high for my taste (even though they are usually mounted to spec) and the sound field is not convincing enough for me, you can always tell where they are.

Back on to the meat of the topic here, I use my 805's as surrounds and find them to do a superb job, I like to keep the tweeters at the same height as the mains.

[gostan]

Stan, how are your N805 mounted? According to Dolby they (the drivers) should be mounted about 2 - 3 feet above the ear. Are you able to achieve this requirement for optimal performance?

Glenee, point very well taken! LOL I can assure you though the SCMS are harmonious, peaceful and sexy too if implemented with some thought and care. My wife has never complained of them. Now the 800D... that's a different story!

I have the 805's on 28 inch stands. The tweeters are about 2 feet above my ears when I sit on the couch. Now with the taller 803D's in front, the 805's are just a bit lower than the fronts.

My concern is that the new room has an odd triangular extension at the rear which is what gave me the thought that wall mounts/in walls might be a better solution. Going to check the room out again today! :T

I don't ever want my home theater sounding like a commercial theater, in every theater I have ever worked on, or been in, the surrounds are set up too high for my taste (even though they are usually mounted to spec) and the sound field is not convincing enough for me, you can always tell where they are.

Exactly what my B&W dealer thought.

But, Like Rebelman says, the SCMS likely give a B&W owner the best of both worlds.

[RebelMan]

I don't ever want my home theater sounding like a commercial theater, in every theater I have ever worked on, or been in, the surrounds are set up too high for my taste (even though they are usually mounted to spec) and the sound field is not convincing enough for me, you can always tell where they are.

That's too bad SG. Given your familiarity of the trade I would have expected more from you. Apparently you have never heard of the Cine Capri. If you ever get the chance to visit us out in the desert sticks I suggest you look up what you have been missing. :W Of course I usually sit in the sweet spot in the theater and at home. :B

[RebelMan]

Exactly what my B&W dealer thought.

No offense to your dealer but I don't understand the logic behind this reasoning. Is there an oxmoron to the term "home theater". What is the point of HT if it isn't meant to capture the movie going experience at home?

According to Wikipedia...

"Home cinema, also called home theater, seeks to reproduce cinema quality video and audio in the home."

According to the American Heritage Dictionary...

"home theater
n. A system of sophisticated electronic equipment for the presentation of theater-quality images and sound in the home. "

Did I loose anyone? :roll:

[bvk_houtx]

I have the SCM1 for my rear surrounds and I love them. I have them paired with a N802 for the front and a HTM3S for the center..... movies never sounded so good.

[gostan]

I have decided to use the 805's for the surrounds for the time being. I will have extra wire run to the rear in case I decide to opt for the SCMS in the future.

But, the logical decision is to see how the 805's sound in the new room before jumping to a change of speaks that I can always make in the future.

[jazzyjez]

... Remember home theater should mimic full blown cinemas.

There's one other exception where you wouldn't want the surrounds mimicking that of cinemas: I don't want to hear, from behind me, that rustling of candy/sweet wrappers, and asinine chatter "whispered" about the plot/actor/the weather outside/etc. :M
One of the main reasons I'm putting together my home theater is because going to the cinema is now invariably more irritating than pleasureable. In addition to the above, the occasional mobile phone going off was the last straw.

Added: after reading about Cine Capri, consider the word "Cinema" in the above replaced by "Shopping Mall Multiplex". I feel the two may be just distant relations.

[RebelMan]

I understand where you are coming from. Likewise, I am sure you understand that I made no prior inferences to your point.

Usually the first thing that comes to mind when planning to see a movie is a big screen and surround sound. It isn't until after the room fills up that the ugliness of movie going sets in. That's the unfortunate side effect of hosting large venues, which are not limited to just Cineplex’s. Fortunately, not every showing is filled to capacity which can lessen some of the disturbances.

On the other hand, a full audience can enrich the movie going experience. The memorable experience I had watching Star Wars for the first time at the original jam packed Cine Capri had left an indelible mark on my brain that I still remember to this day. As if it all happened yesterday. I was 10. The roar of the crowd was exhilarating and added to the excitement and realism of the picture. It felt as if we all bonded together in the Rebellion fight to oppose the evil Empire. Try and reproduce that feeling at home!

As good as home theaters are these days, they will always be missing that something special without the crowd to join you. If ticket and concession prices weren't so exorbitant people would be more willing to put up with all that you mentioned and accept it as being part of the movie going experience which can be very rewarding and memorable. Of course it helps to have a theater like the Cine Capri to go to. :B

[style]

805 vs. Smcs for SR

Hallo,


I have a B&W803s from, htm3s center and 805s rear.

I think too that the SMCS give better "surrounds effect" as the 805.

If I go in 7.1 I buy a SMCS fir SRBack sure.... or change the actuall 805s SR with 2 or 4 SMCS is too sure not a bad idea... ---> 805s for a 2 channel system?

The SMCS go mounted to the wall but how much in height?

Omar

[RebelMan]

The SMCS go mounted to the wall but how much in height?

Given that the average ear height is about 36" off the ground from the seated position the base of the SCSM cabinet would be optimally placed between 60" and 66" from the floor. I have domestic contraints that forced a position 78" from the floor with excellent results. I could lower them another 6" but not without some risk of physical interference.

[dknightd]

But, the logical decision is to see how the 805's sound in the new room before jumping to a change of speaks that I can always make in the future.

Very sensible

[jazzyjez]

RebelMan -- Actually, I couldn't agree with you more. I too have had some memorable experiences (the first Star Wars film was a special one for me also - another time for that story). Perhaps I sounded a bit jaded because of some recent experiences... you know, the noisy audience coupled with a less-than-stellar movie. I'm sure I'll continue to see movies at the theater, perhaps less often than in the past, but on balance, we always seem to have a great night out whenever we do get to the "flicks".
Anyway, I'm still really looking forward to getting my own home setup up-and-running -- hopefully before the end of the year, then I can report back on my findings.

[Stevebez]

SCMS highly recommended here ... fabulous setup and blend seamlessly with 803D / HTM2D

[chin kwan]

Using SCM1 with N803 and HTM1.. The SCM1 do blend quite well with the fronts and it can keep up with them dynamically as well.. Tried using lesser DM303s before and they did not match

[gostan]

My new pre/pro should be delivered by Friday.

I plan to hook up the N805's for surrounds (and the HTM2D cc) at that time.

Can't wait to get surround sound back up and running again. Especially since the 803D's sound so much better in the loft in my new condo than they did in my old den. Being a foot and 1/2 +/- off the rear wall versus several inches makes a huge difference!

[sikoniko]

now get some sound anchors!

are you going with the onkyo/integra?

[angelface]

RebelMan -- Actually, I couldn't agree with you more. I too have had some memorable experiences (the first Star Wars film was a special one for me also - another time for that story). Perhaps I sounded a bit jaded because of some recent experiences... you know, the noisy audience coupled with a less-than-stellar movie. I'm sure I'll continue to see movies at the theater, perhaps less often than in the past, but on balance, we always seem to have a great night out whenever we do get to the "flicks".
Anyway, I'm still really looking forward to getting my own home setup up-and-running -- hopefully before the end of the year, then I can report back on my findings.

I was 18 and it was the first film my parents didn't take me. During the film there was ooohs and at the end of the film the audience applauded!

[Pace3000]

Branching off (sorry OP), but where is this Cine Capri RebelMan? I was in AZ in 2000 (did Las Vegas - Grand Canyon - Scottsdale/Phoenix - Tombstone and back) and should be coming back either next year or the one after. Worth travelling 5,000 miles for?

Edit: Just saw the link, d'oh - 2000 E. Rio Salado Parkway!

[RobP]

That's too bad SG. Given your familiarity of the trade I would have expected more from you. Apparently you have never heard of the Cine Capri. If you ever get the chance to visit us out in the desert sticks I suggest you look up what you have been missing. :W Of course I usually sit in the sweet spot in the theater and at home. :B

That is a nice theater Rebelman, reminds me of the old Glenwood theater we had here, gently sloped floors, large room and screen, very nice. Those venues like that are much better sounding as far as the room goes, much better than these new stadium setups. If you ever get out to LA you should watch a movie at the Chinese Theater, The presentation is top notch, Although I still prefer my setup at home :W .