New Diamonds In The House!

[gostan]

After about a year or more of going back and forth listening to 803D's and 802D's, I have finally sold my N803's and NHTM1 and replaced them with a pair of 803D's and a HTM2D center channel.

I picked up the new speaks yesterday. Heavy and larger, and all I can say is it's a good thing that I have a "dolly" in the house.

Physically, the 803D's are slightly wider deeper and about 3.9 inches higher than my old Nautilus 803's. The HTM2D is also sligtly wider and almost 3 inches deeper. Luckily it fits on the same B&W center channel stand.

My memory banks tell me that the N803's needed a considerable break-in time before I could defintively state that they were well worth the extra $$$ spent upgrading from my CDM 7's.

I know that the new diamond speakers will sound better over time, but right out of the gate there is no hesitation to declare that the 803D's are just so much smoother from top to bottom than the Nautilus series. More bang in the mid-bass and absolutely superior top end detailing along with that classic B&W mid-range that draws all of us to these speakers.

I know that they will only get better, and I am willing to put in the many hours of blissful listening to hear them break in over time.

By the way, I have noticed that there have been a number of threads about suggested amplifier upgrades for the 803D's and 802D's. I demoed the diamonds with a series of Mac MC402's and 501's and various Bryston and VTL amplifiers. My current amplifier is a Cary Cinema 5 (5 x 200W @ 8 Ohms), and I know that it is not my imagination that the 803D's run more effortlessly with this amp than did my N803's. I will likely upgrade the front 2 channels (or 3 channels) down the road, but for now I can quickly and simply state that if you have a decent amplifier, a speaker upgrade will get you more listening pleasure than a new amplifier.

[Lewing]

Congrats on your new toys! Now, some photos pls? :

[gostan]

I will find the time to break out the digi camera soon. I promise!!

[ShadowZA]

Congratulations on your new "Diamonds", gostan!
Wishing you many hours of audio bliss. Warning: You're going to find yourself spending more and more time listening to these beautiful beasts. :W

Njoy :T

[DrJRapp]

Congratulations on your new "Diamonds", gostan!
Wishing you many hours of audio bliss. Warning: You're going to find yourself spending more and more time listening to these beautiful beasts. :W

Njoy :T

Duh......Isn't that the object of such an upgrade?......correct me if I am wrong....lol

[Pedro]

Congrats Mr Gostan!

Have you noticed sonic diference from your older N803 specialy at the high frequency, or for you the 803D sounds exactly in the same way??

[nick.h]

Great choice dude, you did the same as me! I love the 803D and HTM2D combo.

Yes a new amplifier to power those puppies would be nice.

So out of the ones you demo'd which did you like the most? Mcintosh?

[RebelMan]

Congrats Stan! :T What color did you go with?

[gostan]

Congrats Stan! :T What color did you go with?

I stayed with CherryWood. My surrounds are still N805's in CherryWood.

[Dmantis]

What was once considered only a Womens best friend.

[Pedro]

I stayed with CherryWood. My surrounds are still N805's in CherryWood.

The best colour for a speaker. And for 803D specialy it became alot better!!!

[gostan]

Great choice dude, you did the same as me! I love the 803D and HTM2D combo.

Yes a new amplifier to power those puppies would be nice.

So out of the ones you demo'd which did you like the most? Mcintosh?

Nick: The McIntosh 402 & 501 monoblocks were great. But, based upon my limited time with them, the beauty of the 803D's are that they can mate with so many different amplifiers. Don't limit yourself to McIntosh. I know that their retro look and blue meters are very in - but the VTL's and Brystons also sounded very good with the 803D's. Many here adore the Classe' amps. And, my Cary Cinema 5 is also really sounding impressive. I might like a bit more action/bang in the bass area amplification wise than the Cary gives me, but the mid-bass (even with the Cary) shines over my former Nautilus speaks.

Thanks to all for your thoughts and congrats!

[Cruxis]

Well, I'm running a Creek Destiny integrated amp rated at 100 watts with the 803D's ( 2 channel only ), and they sound great. But I will say, the amp is the next area of upgrade, as I figure the 803D's or whatever comes after, will benefit from a bit of a boost in this area.

[gostan]

Congrats Mr Gostan!

Have you noticed sonic diference from your older N803 specialy at the high frequency, or for you the 803D sounds exactly in the same way??

Pedro, since I listened to the N803's for three years, their sound (for the moment) with certain memorable recordings is permanently etched in my memory cells.

The high frequency responses from the 803D's are so much more detailed, exacting and produce much more individualized voicing and instrumentation. The N803's were a bit vague and fuzzy in comparison. But, of course, this did not really bother me until I started demoing the 803D's.

I only have about 15-18 hours break-in so far. The manual states that I should allow a minimum of 15 hour break-in. Some friends say give them 100 hours and others 200 hours. I don't really remember how many hours it took my Nautilus speakers to fully open up. So, I will withhold a further fuller review for at least a week or two. Maybe! :B

[DrJRapp]

Stan

I also listened to the 803Ds a lot (they were my prime candidate before I discovered the magnificence of the ML Summits) and my favorite amp combinations were Halcro, Aragon and Nuforce. To me,the 803Ds seemed to image best with Halcro and Aragon. The 803Ds are able to place instuments on the stage in an uncanny fashion when driven by an amp that images well and doesn't have too forward a presentation. Your trusty 8008 (that you already parted with) would have done the trick. You need an amp that isn't grainy so I think any QUALITY SS amp that is detailed without being forward or haveing an edge to it will work.....like the Macs, the Aragons, the Pass Labs, the Bells, or Classe. You may also want to look at the Anthem Statement A2 OR P2 although you may find their presentation a bit forward. Since your place is currently not too large, anything with 200 wpc or better should give you all the punch you can use.

[gostan]

Stan

I also listened to the 803Ds a lot (they were my prime candidate before I discovered the magnificence of the ML Summits) and my favorite amp combinations were Halcro, Aragon and Nuforce. To me,the 803Ds seemed to image best with Halcro and Aragon. The 803Ds are able to place instuments on the stage in an uncanny fashion when driven by an amp that images well and doesn't have too forward a presentation. Your trusty 8008 (that you already parted with) would have done the trick. You need an amp that isn't grainy so I think any QUALITY SS amp that is detailed without being forward or haveing an edge to it will work.....like the Macs, the Aragons, the Pass Labs, the Bells, or Classe. You may also want to look at the Anthem Statement A2 OR P2 although you may find their presentation a bit forward. Since your place is currently not too large, anything with 200 wpc or better should give you all the punch you can use.

JR, as always, thanks for your expert advice.

If the Aragon 8008 had been the balanced version, it would still be on my rack. I know that you are not a Cary fan at all. I suspect because it is not detailed enough or quiet enough for your tastes. No doubt at all, that the Aragon bottom end has much more "ooompf" than the Cary. My local Anthem dealer will likely give me a Statement A2 for home demo purposed-maybe I will try that out, but I am not sure how that will really differ from the Cary amp.

Yes, the Pass Labs amps have always been on my A-list, but why isn't Bryston on yours? Or any of the tube amps, from BAT or VTL or Manley Labs? Let's chat further.

[sikoniko]

Congrats on your purchase Stan! I'll go on record again as saying I think you need to find a way to have 3 identical power sources for the soundstage if you intend on maintaining an integrated HT/2ch system.

I tried this with different amps, and it was very annoying. Same company, different amp would work if the gain is the same, but not different amp makers. Your soundstage will be BIG small BIG as it pans from one side to the other. It may help you narrow your selection down as not many companies make a 3 channel, and a 5 channel may be more than you are looking to jump into on multiple levels, including implied performance characteristics that differ from multichannel amps.

[ShadowZA]

Stan, if you intend upgrading your amps at some stage down the road, you might want to give the Krell KAV-3250 3 channel amp a listen to if possibe. It's rated at 250w into 8 ohms & 500w into 4 ohms and does deliver imho. I am unable to put forward any decent opinion in comparing it to the amps which you mention though.

[dmccombs]

Sikoniko is right. When you have well matched speakers across the front, it makes sense to get either a 3 Channel amp up front, or 3 monoblocks. I would recommend 200wpc or higher with 800 series speakers.

I went with (3) Classe Monoblocks with 350 wpc and am very happy. There are lots of good amp makers, and many work well with the 800 series B&Ws. It's nice to have choices. :T

[RebelMan]

Yes, the Pass Labs amps have always been on my A-list, but why isn't Bryston on yours?

I asked Jerry the same question about Bryston a year ago and at that time he told me there were no dealers in his area to demo them. I'm not sure if he moved yet or not and into an area where he has local dealers but I am sure he would find it worth his time to at least try them out, if he can.

[gostan]

Stan, if you intend upgrading your amps at some stage down the road, you might want to give the Krell KAV-3250 3 channel amp a listen to if possibe. It's rated at 250w into 8 ohms & 500w into 4 ohms and does deliver imho. I am unable to put forward any decent opinion in comparing it to the amps which you mention though.

ShadowZA, I know that there are many happy Krell owners out there. In very limited listening tests, I thought the Krell amps were a bit bright and forward for my liking.

I asked Jerry the same question about Bryston a year ago and at that time he told me there were no dealers in his area to demo them. I'm not sure if he moved yet or not and into an area where he has local dealers but I am sure he would find it worth his time to at least try them out, if he can.

Rebelman, the Bryston's sounded very good with the 803D's. The McIntosh even a bit better, but a bit out of my price range with the recent speaker upgrade.

Congrats on your purchase Stan! I'll go on record again as saying I think you need to find a way to have 3 identical power sources for the soundstage if you intend on maintaining an integrated HT/2ch system.

I tried this with different amps, and it was very annoying. Same company, different amp would work if the gain is the same, but not different amp makers. Your soundstage will be BIG small BIG as it pans from one side to the other. It may help you narrow your selection down as not many companies make a 3 channel, and a 5 channel may be more than you are looking to jump into on multiple levels, including implied performance characteristics that differ from multichannel amps.

Dan, the Bryston 6BSST is high on my list to demo, as I am in general agreement with your observation about the fronts matching. But, if a great buy came along on a quality used 2 channel amp, I would not hesitate to jump as the three channel Bryston might be out of my price range for a while.

And, again, my Cary amp is handling things very well right now. So, for the moment, I am content to listen and let the new diamonds break in. Although, I would still like to have an amplifier upgrade plan in place.

[gostan]

Rear Plugs For HTM2D Center Channel?

The HTM2D Center Channel came with 2 foam plugs for the two rear ports.

I have not tried the CC with the plugs installed while waiting for further break-in.

What are the plugs intended to do to the sound? And do any of you use the plugs?

[RebelMan]

What are the plugs intended to do to the sound? And do any of you use the plugs?

They essentially give you some control over bass extension and bass weight (fullness) by converting the characteristics of the cabinet from ported to sealed. Bass is more defined with the bungs in but less prodigious (loud).

I don't own an HTM2D but the HTM1D that I have my sights on is also equipped with flow ports. Given the crucial nature of dialog reproduction in home theater I wouldn't hesitate to use the bungs and leave deep bass to the other channels.

[gostan]

They essentially give you some control over bass extension and bass weight (fullness) by converting the characteristics of the cabinet from ported to sealed. Bass is more defined with the bungs in but less prodigious (loud).

I don't own an HTM2D but the HTM1D that I have my sights on is also equipped with flow ports. Given the crucial nature of dialog reproduction in home theater I wouldn't hesitate to use the bungs and leave deep bass to the other channels.

Rebelman, I was waiting for some more breakin time before trying this-but now that I understand the purpose-it is time to give it a go. I don't recall any explanation in the speaker manual.
Thanks,

By the way, how is your new CC upgrade working out for you?

[gostan]

Brief Two Week Update

The 803D/HTM2D upgrade has definitely provided me with the greatest audio enjoyment of any of my upgrades ove the past several years.

The music is alive again. The ability to hear so many new notes and sounds is the most simplistic analysis that I can make. Jazz music is my favorite with female vocalist and older 60's-70' R&R a close second.

New cymbal, piano, bass and other musical notes are much more prevelant on recordings that I have listened to for years. As I am writing this, I am playing a very old live cd of the Modern Jazz Quartet. It seems as if Milt Jackson's Vibraharp is playing live in front of me.

My entire digital end has been never sounded so wonderful. ;b>

[eljr]

Congrats on the upgrade!
I am sure you will continue to enjoy them for years.

Also I was wondering, do you listen to music loudly sometimes for extended periods? My amps have a habit of overheating when I do. Any experience along these lines?
Thanks in advance
eljr

[gostan]

Congrats on the upgrade!
I am sure you will continue to enjoy them for years.

Also I was wondering, do you listen to music loudly sometimes for extended periods? My amps have a habit of overheating when I do. Any experience along these lines?
Thanks in advance
eljr

My entire household is always telling me that I play music much too loudly. However, my Cary Cinema 5 does not really get too hot to touch. What type of amps do you have?

[eljr]

My entire household is always telling me that I play music much too loudly. However, my Cary Cinema 5 does not really get too hot to touch. What type of amps do you have?

Mcintosh 501's----------just upgraded from the 252 for the same reason

[Andrew M Ward]

Nick: The McIntosh 402 & 501 monoblocks were great. But, based upon my limited time with them, the beauty of the 803D's are that they can mate with so many different amplifiers. Don't limit yourself to McIntosh. I know that their retro look and blue meters are very in - but the VTL's and Brystons also sounded very good with the 803D's. Many here adore the Classe' amps. And, my Cary Cinema 5 is also really sounding impressive. I might like a bit more action/bang in the bass area amplification wise than the Cary gives me, but the mid-bass (even with the Cary) shines over my former Nautilus speaks.

Thanks to all for your thoughts and congrats!

The Cary is probably really enjoying the 803D's - that amplifiers runs well in lower impedance situations... close to 350 watts at 4ohms (that's plenty of juice)

[RebelMan]

Rebelman, I was waiting for some more breakin time before trying this-but now that I understand the purpose-it is time to give it a go. I don't recall any explanation in the speaker manual.

The manual glosses over the topic under the Fine Tuning section.

By the way, how is your new CC upgrade working out for you?

Well gostan, it's a long story that's still in progress but I am beginning to make some headway.

My TV sits inside a recessed nook in between and behind my LCR speakers. About three months ago the TV failed and had to be replaced. In order to get the TV in and out of the nook, I have to protect and move away the nearby speakers. Each time I move the speakers I am forced to go through the arduous and time consuming task of re-positioning them.

Since I was expecting a quick turn around with the TV I was willing to wait it out before putting the speakers back but then one thing led to another and getting the issues of the TV addressed was continuously dragging on. Not to mention that without a TV I had no immediate need for a center channel. Coupled with the weeks I have been away on vacation and business trips I had no reason to use any part of my AV system and so I didn't.

It wasn't until recently that I received the replacement TV (one week prior to selling it) and picking up a new one in lieu, which I have been breaking in for the last couple weeks. I didn't have the opportunity to situate my sound system until this weekend. Now that I am comfortably settled in again I can begin (again) to consider my CC upgrade options.

[RebelMan]

The 803D/HTM2D upgrade has definitely provided me with the greatest audio enjoyment of any of my upgrades ove the past several years.

The music is alive again. The ability to hear so many new notes and sounds is the most simplistic analysis that I can make. Jazz music is my favorite with female vocalist and older 60's-70' R&R a close second.

New cymbal, piano, bass and other musical notes are much more prevelant on recordings that I have listened to for years. As I am writing this, I am playing a very old live cd of the Modern Jazz Quartet. It seems as if Milt Jackson's Vibraharp is playing live in front of me.

My entire digital end has been never sounded so wonderful. ;b>

Awesome!!! :T