Levinson 33H or Krell 600FBS

[DM3000 Owner]

I read a review in Stereophile of the Levinson 33H amps. They were compared very closely to the Krell FSB 600's. Anyone here have experience with these amps?

Thanks,

Chris

[Joey_V]

I know what I'd pick.

[Minardi2]

Not sure what a Krell FSB is, but I'm assuming you mean FPB.

I have the 700cx and it's powering my N802s with fabulous results. The bigger B&Ws need a lot of clean power (IMO) to sound their best, and the Krell isn't lacking in this department.

[Aldo]

The Mark cost is a lot more than the Krell, more than double!
I think there is no way to compare them!
I have the Krell, it is a great amp, but.....

[Joey_V]

Exactly..... not on the same plane.

One's got the X-factor, the other.... is a just a good amp relatively.

[RNKC]

The Mark Levinson 53 is coming. Is it coming soon? Who knows? But when it does come, I predict we'll see a lot of 33H and 33 onsale over on Audiogon. That's when I'm going to try and purchase a couple. In the meantime my Levinson 432 (400w per channel) keeps me and my N802 very happy.

http://blog.stereophile.com/ces2007/011407ml53/

[Joey_V]

I wonder if the 53 is Class A.

[DM3000 Owner]

The Mark Levinson 53 is coming. Is it coming soon? Who knows? But when it does come, I predict we'll see a lot of 33H and 33 onsale over on Audiogon. That's when I'm going to try and purchase a couple. In the meantime my Levinson 432 (400w per channel) keeps me and my N802 very happy.

http://blog.stereophile.com/ces2007/011407ml53/

Hmmm...

Are the 33H's going to make that big of a difference than my Brystons?

[RNKC]

Bryston is very good.

Levinson is better.

To my ears anyway!

[DM3000 Owner]

Bryston is very good.

Levinson is better.

To my ears anyway!

I don't doubt that for a second. The question is whether or not the 33H's are worth 3 to 4 times the price of the Brystons.

[Minardi2]

I don't doubt that for a second. The question is whether or not the 33H's are worth 3 to 4 times the price of the Brystons.

IMO, no. In the limited experience I had with listening to the 33Hs in a fully treated room with some excellent electronics and speakers, I thought the bass was soft, and not very defined. Then again, I'm used to my Krell FPB-700.

The only way to know for sure would be to demo them back to back if possible.

[DM3000 Owner]

IMO, no. In the limited experience I had with listening to the 33Hs in a fully treated room with some excellent electronics and speakers, I thought the bass was soft, and not very defined. Then again, I'm used to my Krell FPB-700.

The only way to know for sure would be to demo them back to back if possible.

I find that my bass is soft with the Brystons but my room is very large. I keep hearing that the Krells have very strong bass but have never heard them with B&W's.

[Minardi2]

I find the big Krell amps to be a great match with the higher end B&W speakers. I started out driving my N802s with a Krell KAV-250, and while it was good, when I upgraded to an FPB-200, it was quite the difference for the better. Things went to the next level when the 200 was replaced with a 600, later upgraded to a 700cx.

[RNKC]

I don't doubt that for a second. The question is whether or not the 33H's are worth 3 to 4 times the price of the Brystons.

In a word - no. But then, nothing is worth 3x or 4x or anything times. It's a rapidly diminishing curve we play on; we can spend 10x as much but only get a miniscule improvement in sound. At some point one must determine happiness vs $$$.

I used to use Bryston and it was very good. But I've moved to Levinson and I'm much happier now. Would I luv to have 33H? Of course! Can I afford to have 33H? Logically the answer must be no here; there are other priorities in life after all.

[DM3000 Owner]

In a word - no. But then, nothing is worth 3x or 4x or anything times. It's a rapidly diminishing curve we play on; we can spend 10x as much but only get a miniscule improvement in sound. At some point one must determine happiness vs $$$.

I used to use Bryston and it was very good. But I've moved to Levinson and I'm much happier now. Would I luv to have 33H? Of course! Can I afford to have 33H? Logically the answer must be no here; there are other priorities in life after all.

What Levinson did you move to and what improvement did you see over the Brystons? The 33H's are hovering at about $10,000.

[RNKC]

I'm using a Levinson 432 now. The Bryston made my N802 sound good, the Levinson makes them sound great. To my ears the Levinson is more effortless and sounds more like the real thing. Bryston has a nice clean sound to it but I just enjoy the Levinson more.

[misterdoggy]

I've owned Mark Levinson 432, 433 and 436's and also owned Krell FPB400cx and can state that the 2 brands have 2 different sounds.

Levinson is a more reserved sound, warm detail, while krell is bright sounding with a lot of detail especially high detail.

After living with both I preferred the Levinson sound as I could listen longer. Krell was bright, hit hard and depending what type of music/sound you are looking for this might be the ticket with 802's ie: Rock N Roll.

However, classical music became fatigue on the ears. Levinson was more muted mellow power.

I don't have either anymore as I've gone back to McIntosh which to me is the best qualities of Levinson/Krell/Pass together in 1 Amp.

I drive the 802D's with a Pair of mono MC501's

[DM3000 Owner]

I've owned Mark Levinson 432, 433 and 436's and also owned Krell FPB400cx and can state that the 2 brands have 2 different sounds.

Levinson is a more reserved sound, warm detail, while krell is bright sounding with a lot of detail especially high detail.

After living with both I preferred the Levinson sound as I could listen longer. Krell was bright, hit hard and depending what type of music/sound you are looking for this might be the ticket with 802's ie: Rock N Roll.

However, classical music became fatigue on the ears. Levinson was more muted mellow power.

I don't have either anymore as I've gone back to McIntosh which to me is the best qualities of Levinson/Krell/Pass together in 1 Amp.

I drive the 802D's with a Pair of mono MC501's

I was hoping that you would chime in. I remember reading that after having several high end amps you felt that you enjoyed the Pass just as much as any of them, even though they may not be squeezing that last 0.001% out of the speakers. I am afraid that if I spend $10K on 33H's I will not see a huge improvement and wish that I had just kept my very relaible Brystons that I am happy with.

Is the McIntosh more of a nostalgia thing for you or is it truely better (warmer than the Krell but with more impact than the Levinsons)?

[misterdoggy]

I was hoping that you would chime in. I remember reading that after having several high end amps you felt that you enjoyed the Pass just as much as any of them, even though they may not be squeezing that last 0.001% out of the speakers. I am afraid that if I spend $10K on 33H's I will not see a huge improvement and wish that I had just kept my very relaible Brystons that I am happy with.

Is the McIntosh more of a nostalgia thing for you or is it truely better (warmer than the Krell but with more impact than the Levinsons)?

DM

Well one of the things people might not count as very important, but I do was the look as well. For me there's nothing more beautiful than those green/blue meters and the black glass faceplates

I used to own McIntosh back in the 70's 80's and it was a pleasure to learn that the recent quality of their top end competes with anything out there.

Yes warmth of Levinson, Detail, punch of Krell in a softer way and tremendous Bass.

I think you've got to go with the top end starting with the fantastic 501's then there's the 1201's and Lastly their top of the line MC2K.

Remember this is a company with lots of history, they provided the Sound and Amps for Woodstock. They recently invented the idea of separating the power supply with their Preamps and were the first to have that concept.

Then with the C2200 Preamp I have the SS/Tubes combo for that tube sound I have been looking for with a Preamp that works with HT. I recently ordered vintage Telefunken tubes for the Preamp

The combination of MC and B&W was the best solution for me on many levels and I just went "STOP HERE". This is it. Everything I was looking for. ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x(

[sg2]

MrD,

Can you post a pic of your current setup ?

I'd also love to hear that setup one day or another, as I'm also thinking MC501's myself later down the road (maybe next year).

Regards,
--
Stéphane

[Minardi2]

[QUOTE=misterdoggy]

Remember this is a company with lots of history, they provided the Sound and Amps for Woodstock. They recently invented the idea of separating the power supply with their Preamps and were the first to have that concept.

QUOTE]
Mac did not recently invent the idea of separating power supply from audio circuitry. Levinson did it in 2000, and I suspect there were others prior to that.

[DM3000 Owner]

[QUOTE=Minardi2]

Remember this is a company with lots of history, they provided the Sound and Amps for Woodstock. They recently invented the idea of separating the power supply with their Preamps and were the first to have that concept.

QUOTE]
Mac did not recently invent the idea of separating power supply from audio circuitry. Levinson did it in 2000, and I suspect there were others prior to that.

Your right, I had a Magus MFA tube preamp that was built in 1985 with a separate power supply.

[misterdoggy]

[QUOTE=Minardi2]

Remember this is a company with lots of history, they provided the Sound and Amps for Woodstock. They recently invented the idea of separating the power supply with their Preamps and were the first to have that concept.

QUOTE]
Mac did not recently invent the idea of separating power supply from audio circuitry. Levinson did it in 2000, and I suspect there were others prior to that.

Minardi,

Let me correct the statement that McIntosh was the first to separate not only the power supply where noise comes from, but noise also came from the display, microprocessors, switches, controls which they separated completely from the Companion box which contains ALL OF THE AMPLIFICATION CIRCUITS.

Did you know Dan Agostino from Krell reknown was about to merge McIntosh with Krell Industries, but Gordon Gow died the tuesday before there meeting to try to work that merger out (taken from text by the book by Ken Kessler)

[DM3000 Owner]

[QUOTE=misterdoggy]

Minardi,

Let me correct the statement that McIntosh was the first to separate not only the power supply where noise comes from, but noise also came from the display, microprocessors, switches, controls which they separated completely from the Companion box which contains ALL OF THE AMPLIFICATION CIRCUITS.

Did you know Dan Agostino from Krell reknown was about to merge McIntosh with Krell Industries, but Gordon Gow died the tuesday before there meeting to try to work that merger out (taken from text by the book by Ken Kessler)

Misterdoggy,

Vintage McIntosh equipment tends to develop bubbles in their faceplates over time. Has this been resolved? I woudl guess it is fromteh heat of the bulbs but I think that the new equipment uses LED's or fiberoptics.

[misterdoggy]

I know with vintage McIntosh that was a problem and can't really state that it is no more.

However ALL of my McIntosh equipment has LED's and fiberoptics and none with the old bulbs. Love those faceplates Gotta say.........

I just put in some tubes in the C2200 a pair of Telefunken AX7's $160 a tube and
Mullard AT7's also expensive and it was well worth it. Piano pieces never sounded so clear........

[DM3000 Owner]

I know with vintage McIntosh that was a problem and can't really state that it is no more.

However ALL of my McIntosh equipment has LED's and fiberoptics and none with the old bulbs. Love those faceplates Gotta say.........

I just put in some tubes in the C2200 a pair of Telefunken AX7's $160 a tube and
Mullard AT7's also expensive and it was well worth it. Piano pieces never sounded so clear........

How are their solid state preamps? The C42, 45 and 46?

[misterdoggy]

How are their solid state preamps? The C42, 45 and 46?

They are supposed to be stellar

The C200 C2000 as well

[Karma]

[QUOTE=Minardi2]

Remember this is a company with lots of history, they provided the Sound and Amps for Woodstock. They recently invented the idea of separating the power supply with their Preamps and were the first to have that concept.

QUOTE]
Mac did not recently invent the idea of separating power supply from audio circuitry. Levinson did it in 2000, and I suspect there were others prior to that.

HI All,
Actually, the separation of the power function is a very old idea reaching well back into the 1950's mono era and probably before. MacIntosh owners tend to let their loyality and enthusiasum overtake their judgment.

BTW, I like Mac too though the last one I owned was a C26 many years ago. By todays standards it was horrid!! I know this because I recently heard one. Ugg! But I was very proud of my C26 at the time. This was the beginning of the long MacIntosh struggle to gain credibility with their solid state products.

Sparky

[misterdoggy]

[QUOTE=Karma]

HI All,
Actually, the separation of the power function is a very old idea reaching well back into the 1950's mono era and probably before. MacIntosh owners tend to let their loyality and enthusiasum overtake their judgment.

BTW, I like Mac too though the last one I owned was a C26 many years ago. By todays standards it was horrid!! I know this because I recently heard one. Ugg! But I was very proud of my C26 at the time. This was the beginning of the long MacIntosh struggle to gain credibility with their solid state products.

Sparky

Hi Sparky,

I mis phrased what I wanted to say. It wasn't the separation of just the power supply it was the first time they put everything except the Amplification apart. The controls, dials, switches, everything in one and just the amplification in the other.

[Minardi2]

[QUOTE=misterdoggy]

Minardi,

Let me correct the statement that McIntosh was the first to separate not only the power supply where noise comes from, but noise also came from the display, microprocessors, switches, controls which they separated completely from the Companion box which contains ALL OF THE AMPLIFICATION CIRCUITS.

Yup, sounds like the Levinson 32 to me.

[misterdoggy]

[QUOTE=Minardi2]

Yup, sounds like the Levinson 32 to me.

Levinson 32 1999

McIntosh C100 1997