B&W and Jaguar

[greggz]

A little blurb in this article mentions that B&W did the audio for the Jaguar CX-F concept car.

http://cars.ign.com/articles/753/753386p1.html

[ejuanpiman]

i would like to see how that sounds, in my opinion, car audio is a whole diffrent deal then home audio, so lets see what they can crack up, i like to think brands like these should stick to one thing...

[audioqueso]

B&W did actually provide the oem speakers in a car before. I'm trying to remember what car I saw it on. I want to say it was a Volvo (MAYBE) that I remember driving when I lived in Japan. I also remember seeing a pair of B&W (yes Bowers & Wilkens) car speakers for sale in a used stereo shop over there before.

[chinets]

Cool ! I had NO idea that B&W produced car stereos!! Now I find out about, this after Installing Alpine and HK systems in my cars!! That really sucks!!!
Wish I knew earlier or that B&W would have announce that they produce car stereos! Right?
Cheers!

[audioqueso]

I don't know how long ago they use to do this though. After the first time I saw it, I tried looking for them everywhere and never found a place or a dealer that sells or carries them.

[Andrew M Ward]

i would like to see how that sounds, in my opinion, car audio is a whole diffrent deal then home audio, so lets see what they can crack up, i like to think brands like these should stick to one thing...

Can you explain why an audio company "The B&W Group" that consists of Bowers & Wilkins - Classe' Audio - and Rotel would have trouble engineering a car audio system?

B&W has over 40 Engineers in England
Classe' has almost that many in Montreal
and Rotel has even more....

What's the big problem with making car stuff, I don't understand, Focal does it with less than half the engineers B&W has?

[ejuanpiman]

because..., just for the simple fact of quality control, when it comes to car audio, theyre is mostly some brands that do better than others, in car audio when it comes to headunits for instance, anybody that deals with car audio would know that the best in regards to quality and control of audio would be alpine, eclipse, something around those lines, with subwoofers the speaker itself would be jl audio, kicker if any, swiss audio, amplifiers is a whole other deal, and etc.. etc..., now you dont have enclosures like in home theaters you barely have space in the door moldings for a drive to fit, car audio is much diffrent than home audio, BTW they can have all the engineers they want, car audio will always be diffrent than home audio..., now im not saying that they would be bad sound, but i wouldnt say theyd be the best or good either, like i said i would have to hear it, and also ppl would have to hear it as well also, for instance sony..., sony makes very good tvs. but i wouldnt go with any of theyre audio components..., would you?, btw how many engineers do you think sony has smart one?

[RobP]

B&W used to make Car Audio speakers years back, they were not bad, just not marketed aggressively. But I don't think B&W wouldn't have any problem making a great car audio system. You just have to design speakers that work well in baffled situations and have excellent off axis responses. Not a big deal for a company who has already done what they have done in the home audio realm.

By the way, the first mobile CD players made for Cars were made by Sony, and for the first couple of years Sony CD players were found in alot of top winners in the IASCA circuit.

on another point, one of the most winning cars in IASCA had B&W speakers in it.

[Nolan B]

B&O did it with Audio and did it well.

I dont think QC will be an issue becuase it will be in a car with very limited production numbers im sure.

[ejuanpiman]

actually, the first mobile cd players were made by blaupunkt, and when i reffred to sony that i would never buy any audio product from them, was in the home audio department, would you buy a sony audio product?, and yes bang an olufsen did it and look and see how much techonology is put into it, that comes out of theyre home audio products..., look i love the rotel group and i own both rotel and b&w equipment, ive heard variouse really expensive high end components, but what im referring is that just because theyre as good as they are in home audio, does not guarantee that they will be as good in car audio.

[Cactus]

actually, the first mobile cd players were made by blaupunkt, and when i reffred to sony that i would never buy any audio product from them, was in the home audio department, would you buy a sony audio product?, and yes bang an olufsen did it and look and see how much techonology is put into it, that comes out of theyre home audio products..., look i love the rotel group and i own both rotel and b&w equipment, ive heard variouse really expensive high end components, but what im referring is that just because theyre as good as they are in home audio, does not guarantee that they will be as good in car audio.

I hope B&W's car audio is better than your spelling!

[Glenee]

Now Cactus :rofl:

[ejuanpiman]

I hope B&W's car audio is better than your spelling!

i hope your sense of humour is better than my spelling as well :W

[chinets]

Now Cactus, Please keep your prickly pins on your cactus side...No need for prickling sombody!!
Spelling is not an requirement here, but sense of humour is ,so keep it humerous and Loving!
Sorry to intrude, but Thanks guys!
Have a wonderful day to both of you! PEACE for 2007 !!!!

[Andrew M Ward]

Car audio is not rocket science...


(No worries)

[chinets]

YES, but some car stereos sound way better than others...WHY THEN ?????????

Bose, HK, Alpine sound way better than Sony and others WHY???

Not Rocket Science, YES, but Know How and Knowledge of how to have optimal sound in a tight area is great SCIENCE technology, rocket or not !! So Does B&W car speakers sound so good Mr. Ward ,as you are the B&W expert here ,since you work with B&W. Do B&W make any car speakers NOW?? Could you please answer that Mr. Ward ,as I am extremely curious?? Thanks in advance.
God Bless and Cheers!

[Quaker]

Perception the only reality

I don't whether it's true but I heard that the Jag speakers aren't even made by B&W - they're made by Philips. Sounds like a bit of a badging exercise. Thought Jag would have learnt their lesson after the re-badged Mondeo (X-type) fiasco!

[richard john]

isn't this just the way it is with Ford now, shame about B&W lending theri name to this though...one of the last proper audio companies selling out

[greggz]

I don't whether it's true but I heard that the Jag speakers aren't even made by B&W - they're made by Philips. Sounds like a bit of a badging exercise. Thought Jag would have learnt their lesson after the re-badged Mondeo (X-type) fiasco!

The story is not about CURRENT Jaguars, its about a concept car. I posted further details about the audio setup in this thread.

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=24133

[richard john]

oh gee, sorry, I guess I thought this was what the spec for the new car would be..saw this blog trying to find out more about the system but hope what's on the finished car is the real deal

[Rolex]

Dynaudio and McIntosh are only a couple of the high end guys that have entered the car audio market.

I agree, it is not rocket science.

[Ray Gaudio]

I think there's more to it than that otherwise every premium audio company in the world would be in automotive. There are some big players well established in this (Bose, h/k, Mark Levinson) who have years of technical experience in automotive. If I read correctly B&W aren't even making the speakers, Philips are!! And the amp on the Jag is from Alpine (http://stuff.tv/news/id-4519/default.aspx) not the expected "bed partner" for your 801's!
Judging by the placement of the hatshelf speakers, assume the mids are rear surrounds, it's definately style over substance cause there won't be any image separation!
Really hope B&W haven't sold out on this one but somehow it looks like a badging exercise to me!

[Andrew M Ward]

I must admit all the enthusiasm both positive and negative is exciting!

First of all:
Mark Levinson Car audio is made by Harman/Becker - all the Harman car brands are made by the same companies and re-badge for the proper automotive model... (Old news)

Second:
Car audio guys have been taking B&W in-wall speakers and putting them in cars for years...

http://www.bwspeakers.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/products.models/label/Model%20CCM65

So "Philips" isn't really required to make anything for B&W car audio, although I think some of the baffle molding and stuff might be Philips...Easy to check out, so I'll try to find out, but why would Philips make a speaker for B&W?

That would be like Bang & Olufson making a color printer for Hewlett Packard, it doesn’t make any sense?

So Quaker: (with all of one post) says "he heard but does not know if it's true" Then why say it?

I heard Krell was filing chapter 11
I heard tweeter had less than 21 days of operating cash
I heard ... :P

I've hear a lot of things...

The exciting fun part is B&W is growing as a company and a brand; it seems to be a careful and well thought out process... Hi-end specialty car audio in limited models seems to be a fun exercise for B&W... I wouldn't worry too much about B&W’s ability to "pull it off"

For a long time B&W didn't make in-walls and now they are considered some of the finest in-wall products in the world, remember the Rock Solid, that was an experiment too! And was very successful

It's true; B&W will need to partner-up to get this done right... But that's what every audio company does to fill out their offering; nobody does it all, all by themselves!

No worries

[ejuanpiman]

that is exactly where i was going, but some ppl eat too much cinderella S$$$ in here thinking because they are one of the best in home audio they should be just as good in car audio, its like just because you can use wordpad doesnt mean you know how to use microsoft word, even though they use the same format, with that said i would love for them to succeed in car audio, shit i love my speakers i love all of b&w speakers i love the brand itself, i own rotel equipment, and hopefully ill one day own classe equipment, but i just said that ppl would have to audition them before anything can be said..., as is with everything else.( and to the ward man well mannered and nicely said research) :T

[greggz]

Second:
Car audio guys have been taking B&W in-wall speakers and putting them in cars for years...

... and some put a pair of 801's in their car



More pics/info here

http://milbert.com/earl/

[sikoniko]

My concern would be the cost of those speakers... diamond tweeters and all.. i've not seen $20k speakers for a car...

[Ray Gaudio]

Sorry but I really don't want to burst everyone's bubble here, I really hope B&W are being authentic with Jaguar and not just licensing the name!

Found some info on Philips (sound solutions) who interestingly have just been bought by D&M holdings and list Jaguar as a customer, no mention of B&W though(http://hiddenwires.co.uk/resourcesne...61204-06.html).

Maybe it's just someone getting their wires crossed, let's hope

[Andrew M Ward]

The Jag / B&W Concept car won "Car of the show" at the Detroit auto show!

(sweet)

[Insider]

Putting the world to rights...

OEM car audio is complicated compared to home audio as the systems need to perform well over a vast range of temperatures and conditions. Most OEM automotive speakers are usually waterproof!

1. In car audio, you cannot tune to one sweet-spot as you do in a listening room. There are at least four equally important listening positions.

2. The OEM manufacturers need to make vehicles that meet all customer tastes, not just a couple of audiophilies.

[chinets]

OOOh!!! we got a spy among us that has infiltrated the B&W camp!! spooky!! :rofl: :E
The N sider 8O 8)
James Bond at his best!
Keep Low my friend ,and feed us the goodies :W
Cheers

[Andrew M Ward]

Let us try and address lots of the points made below; by making lots of semi-snide remarks.

1. B&W only make their own speakers for the high-end speakers. The vast majority are made by the world's cheapest speaker manufacturer, Fosters in China. Philips do make the XF speakers, but this would be a quality increase on Fosters.

2. You are correct in that it is a branding exercise, but B&W are heavily involved in speaker design and the vehicle tuning.

3. OEM car audio is complicated compared to home audio as the systems need to perform well over a vast range of temperatures and conditions. Most OEM automotive speakers are usually waterproof! The kevlar used in the XF is specially treated.

4. In car audio, you cannot tune to one sweet-spot as you do in a listening room. There are at least four equally important listening positions.

5. The OEM manufacturers need to make vehicles that meet all customer tastes, not just a couple of audiophilies.

6. Needless to say the final car will not have diamond tweeters... The complete car set of speakers costs less than one diamond tweeter!

A N Insider

(well 3 actually)

I'll be seeing the new Jag in person on the 27th of this month, I'll report back my findings... Stay tuned



8)

[zipser]

A friend of mine drew this thread to my attention the other day, I hope I don't intrude by making this post.

At a time when so few things are what they say they are (a Bentley is a VW, an Aston is a Ford - if we think only of matters automotive - and, according to Mr Insider, a B&W loudspeaker is more often a Fosters loudspeaker, and in a Jaguar will be a Phillips loudspeaker) does it matter what something really is, or where it comes from?

Truth is, it matters to me. If I could afford a Bentley I wouldn't buy one that had been made in Wolfsburg and if Ferrari outsourced production to China I'd stop dreaming about owning one.

It may sound like 'cutting off nose to spite face' to reject products that are probably better than they were under previous ownerships, but there it is, I am what I am!

Jaguar, quite rightly, were pilloried critically and commercially for the X-type, a poorly-disguised ragbag of Ford bits and bobs, but will anyone care if a B&W-badged system in the new XF is actually an agglomeration of Alpine and Phillips?

[Briz vegas]

"will anyone care if a B&W-badged system in the new XF is actually an agglomeration of Alpine and Phillips?"

Yes. Why would B&W do such a thing.

We brand snobs would be upset if they started selling B&W badged car speakers at supercheap auto. I recently heard of one audiophile saying he had the great pleasure of listening a high end B&W based system. This would become a thing of the past if everyone had B&W speakers in their Hyundai.

I like that my speakers are still made in England and Europe and are designed in England (I have the same heritage). I'm not big on nationalism but its still kind of nice to think that the UK can produce such good product (and reasonable soccer teams) as they seem to have an awful lot of trouble getting much else right these days (don't mention cricket). I put Naim and Rega in the same category, even if individual components are sourced from elsewhere.

Its funny how brands build up a name and aim for customer loyalty, then they sell that name to make a dollar. I guess there is no reason why B&W should be any different but it would still be a sad day.

[zipser]

Ah well Briz, at least there are two of us!

Trouble is, I always thought that consumer pressure, or the idea of consumer pressure, would be sufficient to prevent the aberrations to which I have referred; but it wasn't. So where would the pressure come from to stop a development such as this?

(I do recognise that this is a 'proposed' system in a 'proposed' car, but it still makes me sufficiently despondent to write)

So far as I can see there is no interest in covering high-end automotive OEM hi-fi systems in either automotive or hi-fi press, so the corrective that the press provided to the X-type fiasco (assisted by the fact that it was a poor car) will not play a part here.

Must stop, am crying on my keyboard. Let's just hope that John Bowers really can't see this going on.

[Andrew M Ward]

8O

I'm over it....

[Mark_C.]

Take a look here.....

http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?primid=766&secid=1614&cpflgs=1111&infid=1614