Advice needed- sub or new front speakers?

[kleeper]

Hi all,

New to the forum, though I've been hooked on B&Ws for 8 or 9 years now. Great place. Anyways, I'm looking to add to my setup and was hoping for a little advice from someone who knows more than I do (probably everyone in this forum, as I'll admit I'm a little deficient on knowledge of these things) as to what would be the better way to go. Currently, I have a set of biwired CDM 1NTs as my fronts, a CC6 center and DM 601s as my surround speakers. All are hooked to a Denon AVR-3805 receiver. I'm considering two options: either add a sub (perhaps an ASW 675), or pick up a pair of 603 S3s or 604 S3s to serve as my front speakers, move the 1NTs to surround-duty and put the 603s in the back. I'm hoping to keep it under $1500.... so, which way do I go? I probably use my setup equally for movies and music and the occasional videogame, though sound fidelity may be a bit more important when listening to tunes.... Thanks in advance for any and all advice,

Kurt

[junior77blue]

You currently do not have a sub?

Sub would be the FIRST thing to get then.

2nd would be used pair of used CDM floor standers. 7NT or 9NT...while moving the 1NTs to the rear.

[Jesse111]

As a critical 2 channel music only listener myself, I'd do everything I could to improve my 2 channel music performance starting with getting the best B&W's I could afford for the mains. However, you are divided between movies, music and video games. If your happy with the sound of your "tunes" now, you will most certainly get much more immedietely noticable change with a sub. Subs are great for movies and less so for music although they can offer great benefits for music if set up correctly. I have a sub in my two channel system and wouldn't be caught deaf with out it. It seems to me you would enjoy the sub with all three of your interests. Upgrading the mains would certainly improve everything but will yeild mostly an improvement in the music. The sub would be something you could enjoy with everything especially movies and video games. CRASH! BANG! BOOM!

Then perhaps save your money for a long long time and try to swing a pair of 703 for your mains someday. Perhaps a pair of used. There's some really smart fellas on this forum so you'll be getting good advice and opinions. Whatever you decide, it's great to see you upgrading and welcome.

[B&W 700 Guy]

You currently do not have a sub?

Sub would be the FIRST thing to get then.

2nd would be used pair of used CDM floor standers. 7NT or 9NT...while moving the 1NTs to the rear.

I agree, this would be the most cost effective solution. You can find the CDM Floor standers for around $700/800.00 on ebay. Then, buy a $700.00 new sub. You don't need to buy a B&W sub, for the price point you are looking at you may get more bang for buck from another MFG. This would keep your system consistant for HT or Stereo at $1500.00.

For long term, it is also a good idea to save your money for a better upgrade. But that easy for me to say :W

[WI Rotel]

Another vote for the sub! If you're thinking of sticking with 6 series for your upgrade and you already have some the sub is the logical choice. Although the newer versions of the 6 are better than the old, they are not radically improved, if you were moving to a higher series, then it might be different, but regardless you still should have a sub first :W

[kleeper]

Thanks all for your advice and the welcome.... got caught up in work, and haven't had a chance to check the forums for a while. As to floor speakers, I think I'll get some 704s if I get anything.... the question then becomes: at this point, better to get a sub, or a set of 704s? And, if I get a sub, which one to get? Thanks again for your advice.

Kurt

[WI Rotel]

Thanks all for your advice and the welcome.... got caught up in work, and haven't had a chance to check the forums for a while. As to floor speakers, I think I'll get some 704s if I get anything.... the question then becomes: at this point, better to get a sub, or a set of 704s? And, if I get a sub, which one to get? Thanks again for your advice.

Kurt

I still vote for a sub. Although pretty steep in price the PV1 is among the finest around (I"m biased because I own 2) but there are some other very good ones too. Since you're thinking of 704's my advice is that you will want them with subs anyway since the 704's are definitely bass lite. IMO you should try a sub first, if you are still less than happy with the fidelity you can buy the 704 later. By the way, if you are a big stereo fan, consider 2 subs, one to stand close to each main. Although bass is hard to pinpoint, I've used a SetUp DVD from Tacet (http://store.acousticsounds.com/brow...34557&section=) that thoroughly proves that you can quite easily pinpoint the sub in stereo and thus that, for stereophonic reproduction, 2 are very much superior than one. For HT on the other hand one is plenty since its only underpinning the LFE's. Happy shopping!

[chinets]

2 words: SUB FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Aldo]

Shure, A vote for the sub!

[kleeper]

Thanks all- you're making my decision pretty easy (although I did put a bid on a pair of 703s on Ebay before reading your replies). $1500 seems reaosnable for a sub, as far as the PV1 goes (plus I love the apperance). Two further questions, though: at the risk of exposing my ignorance, is it worth the extra bucks for the PV1, and is my Denon 3805 going to have enough juice to take full advantage of it? Thanks again.

[WI Rotel]

Thanks all- you're making my decision pretty easy (although I did put a bid on a pair of 703s on Ebay before reading your replies). $1500 seems reaosnable for a sub, as far as the PV1 goes (plus I love the apperance). Two further questions, though: at the risk of exposing my ignorance, is it worth the extra bucks for the PV1, and is my Denon 3805 going to have enough juice to take full advantage of it? Thanks again.

The PV1 is well worth it IMO. Your denon doesn't matter since it will be powering itself.

[B&W 700 Guy]

You should go and listen to a few subs. For $1,500.00 you should be able to find a True Sub. I think you could get a demo model ASW750 for that price. And it will match the CDM/700 series spearkers.

Good Luck!

[kleeper]

OK, a sub it is. A PV1 seems the way to go (plus it looks amazing). The next question is- how important is placement? Ideally, I'd like to put it front and center under my TV, but because of my setup (plasma on a glass stand not big enough to support the sub), it wouldn't work. Would putting it at the center of the rear of the room be the way to go? I'd guess that the room with all my equipment is 15' by 30', with the TV, etc. in the middle of one of the 15' walls. Thanks again.

[B&W 700 Guy]

OK, a sub it is. A PV1 seems the way to go (plus it looks amazing). The next question is- how important is placement? Ideally, I'd like to put it front and center under my TV, but because of my setup (plasma on a glass stand not big enough to support the sub), it wouldn't work. Would putting it at the center of the rear of the room be the way to go? I'd guess that the room with all my equipment is 15' by 30', with the TV, etc. in the middle of one of the 15' walls. Thanks again.

Have you listend to this sub?

[Sticky Hawk]

A sub makes a great difference. If you can swing a EQ unit like the SMS from Velodyne or get a sub with it, my personal experience is that it can save a lot of frustration. I have been so surprised at how much better 2 channel music can sound with a little oooomph. But then again I don't have a 802 :M

Good thing with subs there are lots of options, hope you have the time to listen. :T

[Blewis]

Hi Kleeper,

To make your decision more difficult: check out the REL ST series too.
They don't sound boomy, are very good for music and will match with almost any speaker.
They can be used on high level (directly connected to the front speakeroutput) and LFE at the same time.
I have the REL Storm III for 3 years now and it outlived a lot of upgrades in my system.
Best placement for the sub is between or nearby the front speakers.

Rgds,
Louis

[sg2]

Hi,

Beware of one thing : most Denon AV integrated amplifiers will divert some bass signal to the LFE output, even when you're feeding them with a stereo only signal, and configured in DIRECT... This is annoying.

Regards,
--
Stéphane

[Gump]

OK, a sub it is. A PV1 seems the way to go (plus it looks amazing). The next question is- how important is placement? Ideally, I'd like to put it front and center under my TV, but because of my setup (plasma on a glass stand not big enough to support the sub), it wouldn't work. Would putting it at the center of the rear of the room be the way to go? I'd guess that the room with all my equipment is 15' by 30', with the TV, etc. in the middle of one of the 15' walls. Thanks again.

Find the best 750.00$ sub and get 2 of them!

[chinets]

for $ 750.00 only. Heck!! Get 4 of them!!

[B&W 700 Guy]

for $ 750.00 only. Heck!! Get 4 of them!!

I say buy 6 of them.... do I hear 7, 8...

[chinets]

Sold to B&W 700 Guy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He has put a bid for 8 of those puppies for $ 750.00 a piece!!!!!!!
What a bargain hunter!
I Should have put a bid In for a dozen!! That sucks!!!
Next auction I guess?
Cheers,
Chinets

[kleeper]

I haven't listened to any of the subs yet, and again I'll show my ignorance- what should one listen for in comparing subs? I've just stuck with B&Ws generally because I absolutely love what I have and don't see a reason to change. My experience with subs is limited to the $20 sub underneath my computer (which does what it needs to do), and the two that came with my car (which are Carvers, I believe).

Thanks,
Kurt

[jim777]

Listen to any high end sub first, it should give you an idea

To select a "low cost" sub must mean deciding between music 1st or HT 1st. That would be clean+articulate vs power+low end.

[chinets]

B&W 800 series subs give very low and smooth bass that hits you in the gut In HT, but has that nice low end smooth deep bass for music. If you have B&W speakers then stick with B&W subs ,as they will integrate better together ,to give a simialr sound as the B&W speakers you have.
I recommend the ASW 850 ( discontinued ,but if you get one it is a bargain) or the ASW 850 for big rooms,or ASW 825 if your room is small!!
Good luck on your quest,
Chinets

[kleeper]

Thanks again- I'll see what I can find for an 850. But to once again expose my ignorance: what does "HT" stand for? (Of course, my ignorance may simply be an effect of watching the OSU - Iowa game and enjoying a few too may of my favorite libations in the meantime!) Also, a friend of mine who introduced me to B&Ws, and has a mostly B&W setup, recommended Velodyne subs which is what he uses. Does anyone have an opinion on these? Never heard of them myself.

Thanks,
Kurt

[chinets]

Kleeper,
No Problem!! We will keep you informed while the Libations continues!! Who won the game??
HT means: Home Theatre, which means: DVD-Video entertainment!! Watching a movie in 5.1 which ia 2 front speakers and 2 surround speakers and 1 center speaker for the voice and the .1 is the SUB needed for HT. You can have your HT in 7.1 too which will be seven speakers, and you may have .2 ,like I have, which are 2 Subs, and to me, that is the best sounding for HT in particular( Saturated Boom and Dynamics), and for Music for that smooth LOW filling bass especially in Jazz that would fill the room.
Velodyne is good ,but the ASW 850 or 855 by B&W is Ultimate satisfaction guaranteed.
Good Luck!!
Cheers!!

[Sticky Hawk]

Kleeper -- Are you an Iowa Fan :T or an OSU Fan :M . Great game if you were an OSU fan, they look really good. ;x( Hopefully Iowa will still have a great year and OSU wins the NC.

I have a DD-15 Velodyne, I really like the fact it comes with the built in equalizer package (it let's you adjust the sub's sound to flatten out the bass response). You also have the ability to program it to become tighter (more musical) and looser (more home theater like). They sound really good to my ear with my 804S and HTMS3, when I demoed. That said I'm still working on placement in my new basement area (as I have a second sub from another manufacturer) so that I get the right balance and punch.

I really liked the B&W subs when I demoed them but the ability to adjust them won me over with the DD series. Other popular brands I have heard are the REL and SVS subs (which are very good value, remind me of Rotel). Like all things in this hobby best if you can hear them live (a friend or at the store). Many good choices, pick what sounds good to you.

Good luck and keep us posted.