Rear Surround For 805s - Need advise

[audioqueso]

Hello Everyone,

I'm moving (again) in two weeks into a new house, and the house is surround sound friendly, so I'm looking into getting my 5.1 setup back again. Let me rephrase, it's surround-sound friendliER than the last two places I lived in. First let's start off with the size. It's a perfect 18' by 18' square living room. So it works great except for one corner, the bottom-left corner.

The blue line on the top of the picture are glass doors.
The gray boxes represent the RPTV and the sub.
The brown ovals are the B&W 805s.
The blue rectangles are my sofas.
The purple lines represents hallway openings.

At the bottom left corner there is two hall way openings, but there is a wall from the left hallway that sticks out 18" into the living room. I can mount the rear-right surround speakers there, but by question is what speaker?

At first I was thinking the 800 Series SCM surround, but they're huge, and I don't want something that big sticking out where I will be walking into the hallway. So I'm thinking the 600 Series DS6 dipole speaker, or CWM650 in-wall speaker. The DS6 would just fit in that 18" of space so that it can point to the sofas. However, would dipoles really work in that tight of a space (the one angled cone would be point into the hallway, no space to reflect into the living room)? Would the in-wall CWM650 be a better choice? I asked the dealer for a recommendation, and he suggested the M1 speaker from the Mini-Theater line. I could mount those on the wall, but would that be a better choice? All help is appreciated.

[audioqueso]

Ok, new options added. The dealer suggested the B&W M1s.
I was looking through B&W's website and found the LM1s and FPM2s. Any opinions on those for matching the Nautilus 805s? I will check out audioreview as well.

[Karma]

Hi Audio,
I don't know about speaker choices for your new room. Sorry. Others will help with that.

I writing to comment on the square shape of the room. You mentioned it is a perfect room but it is far from that. The only thing worse than a square room is a cubical room where all dimensions are the same. With two dimensions matching you will have to deal with a very strong resonance at the 18 foot wave length and all of the associated harmonics. In other words both dimensions will go into resonance at the same time. This will result in very uneven bass response extending up into the lower midrange which you will have to deal with. It won't be easy. Electronikers would refer to this situation as a high Q (high efficiency) circuit. Not desirable for a listening room.

Start pricing bass traps and equalization. Your listening position will be especially critical. Usually, there is no complete solution to this problem. Having dual subs will help by splitting the nodes up resulting in each node being 1/2 as large. But it will still be a problem.

Sparky

[audioqueso]

Interesting. I didn't think about that. All of my rooms have always been rectangles, but even though it is square, bass traps is definitely not an option as my ceiling is inclined like a church (what's the actual word for that). However, I can alway narrow the footprint by positioning them a bit closer and having a sharper angle. But in regards to the square shape of the room, would you think dipoles are a better choice than regular direct speakers (CWM650)?

[WI Rotel]

Buy more 805's.. Better yet buy 803 for mains. Same series BW's tend to maintain similar sonic character. If you mix and match series brings differing sounds in to the equation.

[audioqueso]

No, buying a pair of 803 is not an option. I'm quite happy with my 805 + Velodyne setup. I had planned to purchase another 805 for rears, but the room does not allow it. I considered the 800 SCM, but it's huge for wall mounting.

[Briz vegas]

Square room, yeah that is supposed to be a real bummer. Could be worse, it could be a cube.

Re the rears I would not worry about the series too much as I am more than happy with 804 & 705 myself. Have not heard the wall mounted B&Ws, but from a practical perspective they seem like the best choice.

[PewterTA]

I'd be tempted (depending on how much room you actually have) to pull the couches out slightly into the room and get another set of 805s on stands to put behind them! Since the one couch is angled, you're already set for that speaker, just need the other couch out enough to make room.

[audioqueso]

No, I can't do that. That's what I originally wanted to do, but if you look at the top picture, you will see the pink lines. Those are hallway openings. If I placed an 805 on stands on the right-rear, it would be in the middle of my hallway. That's why I'm looking at wall-mounting a speaker or in-wall speakers. It looks something more like this:

[Nolan B]

My first choice would be to put in walls becuase you can get the same caliber of speaker as your 805s. I can say however that FPMs are great. If its just being used movies purposes they should do the job just fine. Either the FPM 2s or FPM 4s. They do use the nautilus tech. B&W rates them as being slightly better then the 600 series.

I am using FPMs for a full suround system powered by rotel and am often amazed at what comes out of them.

[audioqueso]

I didn't know the FPMs were at the level (or higher) than the 600 series. I had a full 600 HT setup before and it was awesome for movies (I never heard the di-poles though). Your comment is definitely a plus for the FPMs. Another though, I didn't know the CWM650 were suppose to be a match for the 800 series. Is that true?

[Karma]

HI Audio,
No, I don't think either bi or di polar designs will help your room issues.

Sparky

[Nolan B]

I didn't know the FPMs were at the level (or higher) than the 600 series. I had a full 600 HT setup before and it was awesome for movies (I never heard the di-poles though). Your comment is definitely a plus for the FPMs. Another though, I didn't know the CWM650 were suppose to be a match for the 800 series. Is that true?

My comment was according to B&W when I contacted them. I went from a full 601 S3 setup to FPMs to save space and get a more contemporary look. I emailed B&W to find out if I would loose any sound quality and thier exact words are "FPMs are considered to be slightly better then the 600 series.".

Not to mention I have a PV1 sub to got with them which is rated at the 700 series level.

[EAmin]

I didn't know the FPMs were at the level (or higher) than the 600 series. I had a full 600 HT setup before and it was awesome for movies (I never heard the di-poles though). Your comment is definitely a plus for the FPMs. Another though, I didn't know the CWM650 were suppose to be a match for the 800 series. Is that true?

I think the Signature 7NT is a great match for your system. I have a pair in the ceiling and they sound great. You can do the same or mount behind the couch/chair. Good luck.

[audioqueso]

I went from a full 601 S3 setup to FPMs...

Oh, so since you have experienced in both, how do you compare the 600 vs FPM in regards to HT? I'd like to hear your experience to help me narrow my choices down. Thanks.

EAmin, in regards to the in-walls behind me, would that be too close if the couch is right next to the wall as well? That would put them a foot away from my ears? That's part of the reason I wanted to put them on my side. I had an HT setup before with the rears right next to me and it created a nice effect with movies. Your thoughts?

[Nolan B]

Oh, so since you have experienced in both, how do you compare the 600 vs FPM in regards to HT? I'd like to hear your experience to help me narrow my choices down. Thanks.

I can only partially answer your question. The reason is I tested both the FPMs and 601 S3 with a denon reciever then shortly after I got the FPMs I got a rotel 1067, so i couldnt compare both on the rotel.

Here are my inpressions. I did notice a slight improvement when I changed my 601 S3s for the FPM set up when I had the Denon reciever. In both cases I was using a B&W ASW 500 sub. To make a long story short there was more detail and the FPMs really showed a lot more ability espcially when playing Hi Res audio ( which is good to keep in mind with new Sound formats right around the corner for movies.)

After I replaced the Denon with a Rotel 1067 it was like I got whole new speakers! The FPMs in my opinion really have the ability to shine with mid-high end amps as I have reciently test them with a rotel 1077 and they even sounded better and I will be upgrading as soon as a Rotel Pre has HDMI 1.3.

After adding the PV1 to my setup it really felt complete and was no contest to any 600 S3 system I have heard since.

In my opinion FPMs are one of the mosy underated speakers out there and get dismissed because of their slime design and price.

FPMs do, however, need a good sub working with them for home theater.


While they dont go as low as other speakers because of their slim design they do go below 80Hz no problem and when testing various cross over settings on my rotel it was determined that they should be set like any other speaker...which is set to speaker size Small and cross over at 80.

[DavidB]

I'd recommend the Signature 7NT's they are great in wall speakers, I have some in my Dining Room. If you want to go for a better surround sound effect I think dipole's mounted either in or on the wall behind your sofa would be great. I have the DS8 in-wall dipoles as the surrounds for my main system (partnered with 802D and HTM2D)and they do a fantastic job, may be a bit of overkill with the 805's though as byt the time you've bought the back box and had all the building work done they'll be consderably more than your 805's.

[audioqueso]

Then perhaps the CWM650 might be better suited for that job? What do you think David? In regards to your dipole, do you have them on your rear wall, or on your side wall? I suppose I could put in-walls in my rear wall, but if you look at my picture, my seating will be right against the wall. Do you think it would still work better in the rear wall with that setup?

[DavidB]

I have my dipoles in my rear wall and my seating as yours is is right against it. They work very well. The DS8's can be used either in dipole or "convential mode" as they have multiple drive units.

I haven't tried using them for surround sound with the convential forward firing drivers but can do if you are interested.