B&W with Mark Levinson 432 & 433 with 802D's

[misterdoggy]

Well Guys Here's an update on change of Amps.

I was running Krells Fpb400Cx and 3250 and changed to Mark Levinson 432 2 x 400 watts for the front Left and right. The Krell had lots of punch with the 802D's but the silky smooth sound of Mark Levinson's 432 toned down the brightness of Krell.

Little less in your face, with all the detail. End result = no listening fatigue

I listen to mostly Classical piano and R&B. I found myself listening for hours, while with the krells it was an album and then a rest. Noticeable was at low dbs ALL the same detail that you found at high dbs.

IMHO the Mark Levinson/802D is the best combination I have found to date.

[pramod]

WAO Your Setup is just fantabulous............. ;x(

[Dmantis]

Both amp companies are very impressive. At this level it's all very personal. I perfer the Krell amps over Mark Levinston for Dynaudio speakers. It was a toss up for me when I demo'd B&W's.

ML makes a killer 383 intergraded. I loved that thing with both speaker companies.

Nice system man,

Dan

[misterdoggy]

Both amp companies are very impressive. At this level it's all very personal. I perfer the Krell amps over Mark Levinston for Dynaudio speakers. It was a toss up for me when I demo'd B&W's.

ML makes a killer 383 intergraded. I loved that thing with both speaker companies.

Nice system man,

Dan

You are right when you say its a toss up. At this level they are all equal "quality" wise and its only a matter of personal preference.

Its my personal taste that prefers ML over Krell with 802D's.

[Kobus]

Hi doggy

Truly amazing.

I could swear that I read in one of your threads earlier this year that you were "finished".

Enjoy

Kobus

[dyazdani]

Little less in your face, with all the detail. End result = no listening fatigue

That's the same conclusion I came to when picking an amp for my N802s...I had a ML 333

[misterdoggy]

Hi doggy

Truly amazing.

I could swear that I read in one of your threads earlier this year that you were "finished".

Enjoy

Kobus

Its like the Godfather said "Just when you thought you were out of it, they drag you back in it"

[Karma]

HI doggy,
I fear your post gives the wrong impression. A while back you commented upon your Krell's sounding bright. I replied that I did not think that Krell amps were intrinsically bright. I suggested that perhaps your room is bright and undertreated. You came back and agreed that that your room is bright and that you did not want to put a huge effort into treatment since you are planning on moving to new quarters soon. It seemed we had agreement that that the room accounted for the so-called Krell brightness.

Is this still the case???? Your post gives the impression that the Krell brightness is caused by the amp. I don't think this is true. Are you using the amp to compensate for your room problems? This seems like a questionable solution to me.

Don't misunderstand me, please. I have owned (still do) Levinson equpment and like them very much. Krell and Levinson are both fantastic. But they do sound different. My most recent amp purchase resulted in a Krell. I love it. Not bright at all. Very neutral to my ears. Levinson is more laid back but with less instantanious power delivery. These two companies represent some of the best audio has to offer. I don't have a preference.

Sparky

[VictorHRS]

IMHO the Mark Levinson/802D is the best combination I have found to date.

Good to hear this, and excellent setup! Congratulations! :T

I'm planning on upgrading from my Accuphase E-308 integrated amp to Mark Levinson's 432 and 326S, with my new 802Ds. There seems to be even better results with Levinsons and "D" B&Ws than with Classés.

If you could do a little review on your stereo set, it would be nice.

[misterdoggy]

Sparky,

We discussed brightness and "you" felt it was the room. Of this I cannot be sure. However, there is a wonderful softness to the Levinson 432 that was not before.

Don't get me wrong, Krell FPB 400 CX is a super Amp and lots of presence, detail, with a lot of Slam. The 432 is more "refined" and everything is there effortlessly.

We are also comparing Krell's "last" generation Amp with Mark Levinsons current generation Amp so its not "apples for apples".

I think there are enough curtains, rugs, objects in my room to soften a bright sounding system. Anything added in the room treatment area would certainly improve any situation needless to say.

I'm not saying Levinson is better than Krell, I am only saying that to my taste, Levinson is better than Krell. If you like listening to loud electric Punk, maybe the Levinson would be too refined.

The Ultimate test in my minds eye is PIANO MUSIC. You have the full range of sound and detail and in this realm I am happier with the 432

[misterdoggy]

Good to hear this, and excellent setup! Congratulations! :T

I'm planning on upgrading from my Accuphase E-308 integrated amp to Mark Levinson's 432 and 326S, with my new 802Ds. There seems to be even better results with Levinsons and "D" B&Ws than with Classés.

If you could do a little review on your stereo set, it would be nice.

Victor,

Sounds like a good idea. The 326 has the Arlon boards that everyone is talking about. I am considering the 326 or 32 as well. I read a reviewer that felt the difference between the 380S and the 320 or 326 wasn't worth the $$, but other reviewers said you could clearly hear an improvement.

I can tell you that the 432 and 802D's are a win win and you won't be disappointed.

I have been of late trying to learn about up conversion and the video world as that's the area where AV is changing the most at this time. 1080p and HD-DVD and Blu-Ray and all this trying to incorporate in to the B&W world.

HDMI or other digital means so there is a turmoil going on. I am happy with the system and the 804S' for suround duty. No matter what, suround's even with a Mark Levinson Amp just aren't as important at the Center speaker unless you are using SACD which is quickly falling from grace.

My MAIN reason for the second ML 433 was due to the Center speaker. Its importance in HT is under-rated. If I had the space I would go htm1d that's for sure. But the wiffe would shoot me. Not about money but being overcome with equipment.

[Kobus]

But the wife would shoot me.

If she has not shot you by now she never will.

Anyone on a side bet that doggy will end up with a htm1D.

Kobus

[sikoniko]

If she has not shot you by now she never will.

Anyone on a side bet that doggy will end up with a htm1D.

Kobus

its only a matter of time...

[Karma]

HI doggy,
When we label an amplifier with a particular characteristic, especially a high end piece, we are taking on a certain responsibility. We are guiding less experienced audiophiles into expectations which may influence their listening adventures and evaluations. We should be very careful to be accurate in our evaluations. This is a responsibility.

If the problem is with our rooms, is it fair to anybody to blame the amplifier? No, I don't think so. Yet, this happens all the time on this forum. What if Krell is more accurate than Levinson? What if Lenvinson is slightly rolled off in the treble end? Under these conditions would you still claim the Krell is bright? Would it not be more accurate to describe the Levinson as slightly rolled off (I think they are but only very slightly)?

Rather than a blanket statement about Krell brightness would it not be better to explain that it could be the room as I think it is. I have never thought that Krell was bright. I have always thought Levinson's corporate sound was more laid back. We are picking nits, however.

I don't have any problem at all with preferring Levinson to Krell. At one time I preferred Levinson as well. I love the Levinson sound and maybe the next time around I will buy a Levinson. There are good reasons to prefer one amp over another because they do sound different. But at the performance level we are discussing here, it really boils down to personal taste and not overall sonic quality.

If you prefer Levinson that's fine with me. They are truly great amps. That's not what I am commenting on. Rather, I am complaining about your blanket statements which you don't bother to justify in any objective way.

BTW, it's nice to know that Levinson is doing well in spite of their corporate difficulties. This is one company we don't want to loose.

Sparky

[misterdoggy]

Sparky,

I have prefaced evry time that it is only a matter of taste at this level and will do so again. I don't know if you've given a listen to the new 432 but its one great Amp.

Of course great Amps all have signatures and particular sound. I would even go as far as to say it would be hard to imagine any amp costing more than $10000 to have a bad sound.

I'm not sure why you are convinced my room is a problem. I listen to systems in stores and go to shows and certainly know about listening and position. You can give me a little credit please. I have lived with the Krell fpb400cx for over 6 months and am qualified to make a comparison after to listening to the 432 for over a week now in the same room same conditions.

Given the same room, same conditions, same supporting components, same source cd listening to the speakers in the same positions, I came to the result that the levinson sounded smoother, less "bright", slightly more detail, and the timbre of sound was easier to listen to for long periods.

Once again this is in my house, my room, my recording, my variables. But it is a comparison with every thing else staying the same and only the amps changing. Now maybe you Sparky would come in the same room and prefer the Krell sound, this I cannot say. I can only report what I like more and that is what I have done.

I can only speak for myself and I am not making "blank statements" without assuming responsibility about whats better or not. I only am saying what I prefer in my house in my room with my components to the likes of my tastes.

I know what I like to eat and I know what I like to listen to. I share what I like to listen to with the group. If you would like to know what I eat I would be happy to share that with the group too. I live in France right at the border with Italy and I eat pretty well. But thats not a B&W topic.

[ShadowZA]

Hi doggy

If the mileage between us was not an issue, I might have tried to pursuade you to sell me your Fpb400Cx. :drool:

Awesome setup :T

[misterdoggy]

Hi doggy

If the mileage between us was not an issue, I might have tried to pursuade you to sell me your Fpb400Cx. :drool:

Awesome setup :T

That would be some fret charge. I put the fpb400cx for sale on audiogon and it went sold in a matter of hours for 6000 euros orig 230v to someone in france.

[VictorHRS]

Victor,

Sounds like a good idea. The 326 has the Arlon boards that everyone is talking about. I am considering the 326 or 32 as well. I read a reviewer that felt the difference between the 380S and the 320 or 326 wasn't worth the $$, but other reviewers said you could clearly hear an improvement.

I can tell you that the 432 and 802D's are a win win and you won't be disappointed.

Thanks! :T

I'm also thinking about Classé, with the CP-700 and a couple of CAM-400 power amps. And Accuphase, with the C-2400 preamp and the P-7000 power amp. Those 3 options are the top 3 on my list, but I will also consider Krell and Jeff Rowland.

Victor

[RebelMan]

misterdoggy, have you ever considered/auditioned Classé equipment before you changed to ML? I am sure you are already familiar with their sonic characteristics described many times before on this forum which aren't too dissimilar from the ML's. In fact what you (and many others) may not know is that many influential ML engineers ( aka defectors ) brought much of their talent to Classé. Don't misunderstand I have just as much respect for ML as I do Classé, afterall they were on my list of possible upgrades. Just curious what path you took to get where you are.

[misterdoggy]

misterdoggy, have you ever considered/auditioned Classé equipment before you changed to ML? I am sure you are already familiar with their sonic characteristics described many times before on this forum which aren't too dissimilar from the ML's. In fact what you (and many others) may not know is that many influential ML engineers ( aka defectors ) brought much of their talent to Classé. Don't misunderstand I have just as much respect for ML as I do Classé, afterall they were on my list of possible upgrades. Just curious what path you took to get where you are.

I've only had the chance to listen to Classe I think it was CA M400's with Sonus Farber at a HiFi store and found the sound to be "formidable". I preferred the Krell at the time if I remember. A little bit missing in the mid range and not quite as much detail as the krell. The ML has both the mid's, and detail, but the "timbre" is what gets me. The "sound" of ML just was my cup of Tea.