Adding a sub to my 805S...

[weijst]

I recently got a pair of 805S. Up till now I have been very happy with them, but the inevitable has happened. The 805S have made me look for a decent sub. So far I have narrowed my choices down to the following options: ASW675, ASW700, ASW750.

I dropped any SVS alternatives as I dislike them aesthetically. I'm not familiar with any Velodyne or REL models, so if any advice on these brands is welcome. Since my music/HT ratio roughly equals 65/35 I'm looking more for a 'musical sub' and I'm willing to sacrifice in the low end department.

I'm leaning towards the ASW700, is this a musical sub? I did a search on this forum and a read more than once that the ASW750 is a considerable step up from the ASW675. Can the same be said about the step from an ASW675 to an ASW700? (both feature a 500 Watt amp and a 10" driver driver).

My room is 5 x 4 meters and my budget is app $1200.

Thank you.

[Nolan B]

I recently got a pair of 805S. Up till now I have been very happy with them, but the inevitable has happened. The 805S have made me look for a decent sub. So far I have narrowed my choices down to the following options: ASW675, ASW700, ASW750.

I dropped any SVS alternatives as I dislike them aesthetically. I'm not familiar with any Velodyne or REL models, so if any advice on these brands is welcome. Since my music/HT ratio roughly equals 65/35 I'm looking more for a 'musical sub' and I'm willing to sacrifice in the low end department.

I'm leaning towards the ASW700, is this a musical sub? I did a search on this forum and a read more than once that the ASW750 is a considerable step up from the ASW675. Can the same be said about the step from an ASW675 to an ASW700? (both feature a 500 Watt amp and a 10" driver driver).

My room is 5 x 4 meters and my budget is app $1200.

Thank you.

I think REL subs are great, and they look decent too. If you are worried about aesthetics and are looking at the ASW 675 - ASW 750 why not consider a PV1? Its certianly better then the ASW 675 and probably on par with the 700 series subs. It has 2 10" drivers with 500 watt and looks better then all three.

[Karma]

HI weijst,
I have 805S's and my room is almost exactly the dimentions as yours. You didn't mention the height. Mine is 8 feet for about 1400 cu. feet.

I chose dual B&W's ASW800's and am very happy with them both for HT and my main priority, music. There are so many subs on the market that I would never claim the ASW800's are the best. I only know I like them a lot. They integrate with the 805's extremely well.

I started with one sub but I am a strong believer in stereo subs so in about a month I bought my second one off ebay. Good move.

I only advise that you don't undersize your subs. Many folks make that mistake.

Sparky

PS, I forgot to tell you that the 805S's, with good subs and properly integrated sound great. I predict you will be very happy.

[miner]

Karma,
I beleive you outbid me for that sub on Ebay. They are had to find. I am actually considering adding a ASW825 to pair with my ASW800 IF I can't find another ASW800 (light cherry).

[Pookie007]

I liked the Martin Logan subs better then the B&W in my room. The B&W always seem to be in the corner. With the ML, the mains seemed to have an extended low end. The sub enclosure disappeared.

[stantheman2]

Try HSU subs, www.hsuresearch.com. On-line sales only. Dr. Hsu has been making renowned, high-value subs for many years. Lool at the VTF-3; it's available in Rosewood and Light Maple as well as Piano finish black. Goes very deep, plays very loud, but remains very musical.

[springer49]

I second the HSU subs. I have owned one for 2 years now and they matched up well with my N805's. You can usually find some used on Audiogon for around $500.

[Navin R. Johnso]

There are many good things said about Hsu and SVS online, and quantitative tests seem to back that up, but they are rather large pieces of equipment (due to the ported instead of sealed design I think) compared to B&Ws, Velodynes, MLs and other sealed models. Even with a nice real veneer finish a 22x23x15 VTF-3 is going to stand out in some rooms. If space/WAF is not as big of a factor for you those two seem to garner a lot of positive reviews and are priced rather reasonably

[weijst]

Hi everyone,

I did some demo-ing this weekend. The ASW700 did everything I expected from a sub, but than again, nothing more... Stange thing is that the sales person told me B&W told him that the ASW675 and the ASW700 should be considered the same. The only reason for choosing the ASW700 (and pay the higher price) should be easthetics... I find that hard to believe, as the two drivers are considerably different. Plus I actually expect more internal bracing in the ASW700. Can someone comment on this subject?

I also heard a REL Strata 5. It looked and sounded on par with the ASW700, but in the store it was a bit more expensive than the ASW700. However, when I came home I did a search on the internet about the Strata 5. It seems this sub allows for a somewhat strange kind of connection (not uncommon for REL). Both high and low level connections at the same time, allowing the sub to do both the main channels and the .1 channel low-frequency sounds. This type of connection was even recommended by several reviewers. The store where I heard the Strata 5 was only using the low level connection. Would the Strata 5 have sounded considerably more impressive if both the high and low level connection were used? If yes, it would be a better choice than the ASW700. Even more because when I googled a little further, I found a new Strata 5 for almost half the price of an ASW700 (special offer)! Can someone please share his/her thoughts on this?

Since my budget allows for it, I am now even wondering what the REL Storm 5 would be capable of, as this model too can be mine for less than an ASW700.

The ASW750 is simply to much for my budget, so unless I come along a very nice deal, I have to let go of this option.

I am still waiting for a good oppertunity to demo a Velodyne SPL-R sub, preferably setting it up against a ASW700 or one of the REL models mentioned above.

Bottomline, has anyone here ever compared the following subs to one another:

- B&W ASW675/ASW700
- REL Strata 5 / Storm 5
- Velodyne SPL-1000R / SPL-1200R

I hope someone can share his thoughts, as a store that holds all these models is simply non existant.

Once again, I'm looking for a sub that ALSO performs good with music (alongside a pair of 805S).

Thank you.

[perato]

Room treatments and/or EQ are important for bass frequencies. If Velodyne's DD series subwoofers are out of your budget, then consider some other EQ such as a Behringer Feedback Destroyer or the Velodyne SMS-1.

[Joey_V]

I would second a used DD12 or DD15 if you can afford it (or go new).

[Audiophiliac]

I would second the suggestion of Martin Logan subs. Something about the balanced force design makes them so transparent, and so quick, that they do just seem to melt into the soundstage like they should. Other subs can do this too, dont get me wrong, but few subs can actually truly disappear acoustically to some ears.

I have had experience with every Velodyne sub out there, the B&W subs, Paradigm subs, Wilson Audio subs, Klipsch, Martin Logan, etc.....and my favorite is the Wilson of course, but $10k is a bit much......second in line is the Martin Logan Descent. Third would be the ML Depth. They just sound that good when set up properly.

You can get the Velodyne processor/mic/EQ system separately now for like $250. It works with any sub. The B&W subs are excellent. I like the 750. The 800 series are really top notch and are excellent for both music and movies. So I wouldnt hesitate to recommend the 750 for your price range. The 800 would be a better choice if you can find a used or closeout deal on one. Good luck!

[ZX10 Guy]

$250 for an SMS-1? Tell me where you saw that price and I'll order 2 right now. The thing lists for $700 retail. With the hot demand for this box, I doubt anyone is discounting these units that much.

[Briz vegas]

weijst
I run a Strata 5 with my 705s and would happily keep it as part of a 800 based system (when I eventually get there). The high & low level connections are certainly handy. I keep both permanently connected. My receivers R/L pre-outs go to a power amplifier and the sub pre-out does not work in 2 channel mode. With my setup only the high level connection powers the sub in 2 channel mode. The theory is that the sub bass shares the same sonic signature as the power amp that is running the R&L speakers.

For HT the high and low inputs work together. You also get to set the volume of the high and low signals so the sub can automatically be louder for movies if that is your preference.

I don't know if the high/low actually improves the sound as well tuned bass extension is very subtle. The Strata 5 is certainly seemless with the mains and significantly improves the ambience of the 2 channel sound, although the biggest improvement in sound that I have experienced was when I added the power amp ;b>

PS I auditioned the 675 and 700, and actually preferred the cleaner punchier 675. The PV1 was so clean it was scarey, at one point in a particular movie I was not hearing much bass but the door of the shelves in my hall was rattling (I'm guessing that the room was partly to blame for this as well as the frequency of the bass). I went with Strata 5 as it had the sound quality and the connectivity/flexibility I wanted. Second choice would have been PV1 for a "music first" system, even though it is slightly less flexible for my type of system. I only ever have to adjust the Rel if I feel like playing with the remote (which makes basic set up a breeze)

[Navin R. Johnso]

To add to the list of alternatives here, I've read at various points rumors of B&W coming out with a room-EQ system similar to the Velodyne DD series. Something like that could be a very attractive choice, and at a minimum would drive prices down on the current B&W sub lineup. It seems like it has been a while since any changes were made to the sub lineup.

Has anyone heard anything concrete on this, or at least a rumor from a delaer or rep?

[Angioguy]

Velodyne + B&W --> Rocks!

I, too auditioned B&W PV-1 and ASW's, Rel, the Revel B-12 and the Velodyne SPL's to complement my B&W 803's... I went with the Velodyne DD-12 for my 900 sq ft apartment, and let me tell you, it has made all the difference below 200 Hz-- this sub clearly delivers, as it gives you the best of both home theater and music... YOU have the power to tweek the many components leading to the flattest possible response for your listening environment-- none of Velodyne's competitors allow you this freedom! I listen to everything under the sun, and this sub blends seamlessly with the 803's.

The DD-10 (1000 wpc) sells for ~$2499 retail, but you should be able to get it for $2000 at an authorized dealer; I've seen it sold from internet stores for as low as $1697, and on ebay for even less!

Simply put, this sub kicks ass! Give it the attention it deserves-- give it a listen-- you won't be disappointed! :T

[Mark_C.]

I use a Velodyne HGS-10 for HT duty with Nautilus 805s. I also have a Rel Storm III sub teamed with my Nautilus 804s in a stereo-only system. For home theater, the Velo is louder at low volumes than the Rel. For movies rumbles and explosions, it's great. It's fine for casual music listening, too. The Rel really shines with music because of the high-pass filter blended with the 804s. The 804s and the Rel sound better to me than the Nautilus 803s by themselves. It takes a great deal of effort to adjust and position the Rel, but it's well worth the effort.

[weijst]

Thank you everyone for all the advice! There are some really usefull comments in here and I will certainly take them all into consideration.

I'm sorry to dissappoint some people in here (or apparently myself in the long run ), but a Velodyne DD, a Martin Logan Depth and a B&W ASW750 are out of my pricerange. I will certainly see if I can stretch things a bit, but I don't think my budget will be able to double itself just like that (other obligations...).

The challenge for me now is to find the sub that best meets my wishes. The subs that go to the seccond round are (incl. the prices I can get them for):
- B&W ASW675 ($900)
- B&W ASW700 ($1250)
- Velodyne SPL-1000R (EQ!) (($1300)
- REL Strata 5 ($900)
- REL Storm 5 ($1150)

Some direct questions:
- Which one of these do you find to be / think is the least musical?
- Is the Storm 5 just a Strata 5 for larger rooms, or does it have more merits?
- The ASW700 vs ASW675? (Briz Vegas mentioned the ASW675 is cleaner punchier...)

I hope you are still willing to share their experiences. I will ofcourse share mine as soon as I have made my choice!

One more thing: When I was demo-ing the ASW700 and the Strata 5 I caught myself being impressed not by the lowest tones these sub produced with movies (U-571 and Gladiator) but by the extra dimmension they brought with music! While I am very pleased with my 805S, now that I've heared them with sub, I can't wait to ad one to my system at home!

Thanks for reading.

[Navin R. Johnso]

When I was looking at the two B&Ws you mentioned, the dealer pointed out that they had the same size drivers and amps in a similar sealed enclosure; the 675's driver was aluminum and the 700's the paper/fiber mix. He recommended the 675 (similar sound, better value) unless the wood finish of the 700 was a big issue.

This UK forum has some real subwoofer nuts and great research info on many subs they've tested.

http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/

Have you been able to listen to the RELs? The only ones I've been able to find in stores are the lower end range.

[Kirium]

I picked the velo SPL-1000R to go with my 600S3 setup. Of the other subs on your list, I only got to compare it side by side to the ASW675. Both are great subs, but the Velo felt a bit tighter and punchier. plus it was smaller, had EQ and a remote. When I got it home, it integrated brilliantly with my 600S3 setup.... No regrets at all.

I plan on upgrading to 805s in a couple of years, and dont think i'll need to upgrade the sub when they arrive...

Good luck with your choice, and keep us posted with how you went..

SPL-800R review here

[ac81017]

805s plus asw750 =

I have the 805s and I´ve just bought the asw750! They are like a happy married couple :T

[alebonau]

I would second a used DD12 or DD15 if you can afford it (or go new).

or even the vello DD10 (depending on room size - velodyne have a calculator on their site. A very capable and puchy sub the DD10 would suit well these bookshelves I reckon. And very neat the DD's with the sms software to make easy the integratration with your speakers and your room.

[Karma]

HI,
I can't comment on many of the subs mentioned here because I have not heard them. I have an 805S based system like yours and have a room roughly the same size and aspect ratio. So I can say that the B&W ASW800's (2) work beautifully.

What tends to get ignored in discussions is the problem of integrating the mains with the subs. It is ALWAYS difficult. To give yourself the best chance of success you should choose the sub with the mains firmly in mind. Pure bass performance is important but not the highest priority. A transparent integration, where the subs are not constantly calling attension to themselves is to my way of thinking the key to a great system.

This is how I selected the ASW800's not because they are also B&W's. Great performance plus they look great. Hard to beat, IMO.

Sparky

Edited to add:
Opps. I didn't realize I had already posted on this thread. Oh well, it must be age catching up with me. It's nice to know I said the same thing twice. At least I'm consistent.

[bullitt731]

I have been running a Velodyne SPL 1200R with my Signature 805s for about 6 months now. I felt I needed some room correction features but not to the extent of the DD series. I will be ubgrading to the 804s this fall, but may keep the sub as a little extra puch for movies. I highly recommend you audition this sub, it should be avaible with a little looking in your price range.