Upgrade 804s to ???????

[DClark]

I really love the 804s that I have had for 3 months but, since I moved from Quad ESL 63 USA monitors/ Vandersteen sub I feel I need to move up the ladder for 2 channel music.

My room is 16 x12x8. I am considering the 803d, 802d and dare I say here, Wilson Sophia 2's.

I have a Theta Casablanca III for cinema audio, Bryston 6bsst, Denon 2900 transport/player. Casablanca III has superior II Dacs which would be used for Redbook. Denon 2900 would be used for SACD. I have few SACD players.

I listened to the Sophia 2's and loved the sound. But to use these for HT I would need a new center channel...my current center is HTM3s. I was thinking with the 803ds or 802ds I could use the HTM3s for a center channel as a temporary solution. Thoughts and opinions are appreciated.

[Eliav]

Both the 803d and 802d are excellent speakers. It is otherwise a very difficult question to answer. There are many variables you will need to consider, such as, your budget, your electronics ( will the Bryston 6 sst do justice with 802d ? I am not so sure...) are you planning to upgrade your amp. in the future ? if so, I would say get the best speakers you can.
One more thing to consider is what precentage of time you spend listening to music Vs time spent on watching movies, if you're a two channel "purist" and listen to music lets say 80% of the time, you may want to manage your budget so that the best components in your setup would be the two channel ones, in this case, you probably would not want to spend money upgrading you central channel speaker, rather, buy better L+R speakers/ stereo amp/pre.

Good luck
Eliav

[rav934]

I have also had the 804s for three months and am also considering an upgrade. I was really impresses with the JMLabs Electra 1027. What is it about the 804s that makes you want to move on?

[DClark]

Short answer....INSANITY, He He I just feel the bass is lacking in the 804s. Another member desribed the sound as somewhat thin.

Yes, music is the most important. I may just go to a two channel HT, dump the Bryston 6bsst, change to two channel amplification and use the 803d, 802d or the Sophia 2. Any opinions?

The JmLabs sounds interesting but, the dealer I am dealing with does not carry the line and I am leaning towards B&W. The reviews of the 802d really make me want to pursue these but, my wife strongly dislikes the looks vs the Sophia 2. Since my dealer does not offer upgrade priviledges for wives , I guess I had better consider her opinion

[grit]

Go for the Wilson Audio WATT/Puppy 7's ! That's my next speaker purchase (in about 10 years!). In fact, I plan on having the WATT/Puppy's as a music-only system. HT is far move forgiving, IMHO, than music. I'd go so far as to say get 804's or 805's + your center for HT. Then build a music only system, and for starters, skip the preamp and get a CD player with onboard volume adjustment. If you want to add SACD to it, you can get a pre-amp later and add other source components.

[Eliav]

Just two more important things ;
You've mentioned that the 804s are 3 months old, are they broken in yet ? if not , this may be a reason for the "thin" sound.
More importantly, did you check your room acoustics ? poor bass response is many time a result of poor room acoustics and not due to bad components, I have heard of too many people upgrading their system , spending thousands of $$ gaining very little improvement where for a relatively little investment in room acoustics - a significantly better outcome would have been obvious !!
Having said this, if you feel like upgrading and can afford the 802d - go a head, always remeber though, room acoustics is part of your whole system no matter how expensive your system is!
Eliav

[dyazdani]

I agree. Give them some time for break-in, they should smooth out a bit. Also, if you don't have any room treatments, you might spend a few bucks there reather than mega-bucks for a speaker upgrade.

[misterdoggy]

I would say 3 months is enough time to get an idea of the sound of the 804S'

I'm running them as surrounds with a krell 3250 (250 watts) and they sound great. They are great speakers and I would search other reasons why they sound thin ?

From my personal experience, HT Processor Dacs and all can't compare with a dedicated Preamp for Stereo sound.

Even yesterday I was listening to Horowitz playing piano on sat TV thru the lexicon mc12Bv5 and quickly switched to stereo mode out of a Pass Labs X1 preamp and the sound was like listening to a cd.

A dedicated Preamp beats even the top Processors for sound.

[rav934]

Last evening I made a useful tweak to my system. First, the 804s are just shy of 2 meters apart...and 1 meter from the side and front walls. I sit 2 meters away...dead center....this gives an excellent image. When I play the 804s at moderate levels...they are very good. The problem arises when I want to crank it up. Seems the upper bass gets distorted. Hence, I stuffed the ports with bunges and moved the subs into play. Each sub is placed about 2 inches to the wall side of the 804s. The front of the sub is in the same plane as the front of the 804 (so I don't have to adjust phase controls).

Next I connected the subs using the high level inputs to the low frequency terminals on the bi-wired 804s. (note...two subs...left and right channel wired accordingly).

Still listening...but, upper bass is smooth, image is maintained and lower bass is tight and musical. Wonder how good it could be with better subs? (BTW...I compared the Supercubes to the PV1 and prefered the former.)

B&W 804s
Two Definitive Technology Supercube II
Muscial Fidelity A5 Integrated amp and A5 CD player
Acoustic Zen Satori Shotgun Cables (bi-wired)
Acoustic Zen Silver ref II interconnect

[Eliav]

Last evening I made a useful tweak to my system. First, the 804s are just shy of 2 meters apart...and 1 meter from the side and front walls. I sit 2 meters away...dead center....this gives an excellent image. When I play the 804s at moderate levels...they are very good. The problem arises when I want to crank it up. Seems the upper bass gets distorted. Hence, I stuffed the ports with bunges and moved the subs into play. Each sub is placed about 2 inches to the wall side of the 804s. The front of the sub is in the same plane as the front of the 804 (so I don't have to adjust phase controls).

Next I connected the subs using the high level inputs to the low frequency terminals on the bi-wired 804s. (note...two subs...left and right channel wired accordingly).

Still listening...but, upper bass is smooth, image is maintained and lower bass is tight and musical. Wonder how good it could be with better subs? (BTW...I compared the Supercubes to the PV1 and prefered the former.)

B&W 804s
Two Definitive Technology Supercube II
Muscial Fidelity A5 Integrated amp and A5 CD player
Acoustic Zen Satori Shotgun Cables (bi-wired)
Acoustic Zen Silver ref II interconnect

Hi
I am starting to sound like an old lady ( :W ) , please do not upgrade your speakers/subs/amps before you check your room acoustics ! rav934, your description of distorted unpleasant bass is probably a result of bad room response, adding a sub may not solve the problem, if you could change your speakers distance from the back wall and blunt the room corners with some acoustic traps you will experience a significant improvement in both imaging and bass, and, it will be much cheaper than a new sub/amp etc.
Give it a thought.
Good luck
Eliav