Effects on moving 802D's farther apart

[Stockinv]

I have a few questions about speaker placement. I sit about 10 feet from my 802D speakers. I have a room that is about 18 feet wide. Is there only one sweet spot with regard to speaker placement? Or are there numerous sweet spots? Can you generalize about how far apart speakers should be? Or is this just a trial and error problem? What are the effects on sound as you move speakers apart or closer together?

[BlazeMaster]

well..alot of that depends on the quality of speakers, sometimes, you just can't hear much difference, and yours are definitly good enough where placements will change the sound you hear. I know the 802D are not light speakers, moving them around might need a little bit more work, but generally you should find one spot that you like the sound the best, so yes, there should be only one sweet spot. Moving the further apart will widen the stereo image and closer will make the image more focused. That's usually more of a personal preference kinda thing. One tip that I've seen before is that place the left and right separatly. Start with one speaker, unplug the other, and find the spot where you like one and do the same for the other speaker. Good luck and enjoy your speakers

[Andrew M Ward]

Just keep them away from the walls

I enjoy that speaker quite a bit...

I would "Spike" them and keep them a least a few feet from any wall, other than that the rest is exploration - trial and error - and minor adjustments...

have fun with it

[misterdoggy]

One rule of thumb is to make an even triangle between the 2 speakers and the sitting area.

[caleb]

Unfortunately we have a very selfish hobby here.

there is only one sweet spot in the room and that should be where you sit.

Everyone elso unfortunately will have a somewhat inferior sound.

[jim777]

Unfortunately we have a very selfish hobby here.
There is only one sweet spot in the room and that should be where you sit.
Everyone elso unfortunately will have a somewhat inferior sound.

Except the first time that a good friend comes to listen to your stereo :lol:

[Pieter]

Except the first time that a good friend comes to listen to your stereo :lol:

Not even then. When I visit Caleb we both sit in a less than ideal spot, flanking the sweet spot.

So, I haven't heard his system to its best adavantage yet...

[jim777]

Not even then. When I visit Caleb we both sit in a less than ideal spot, flanking the sweet spot.

So, I haven't heard his system to its best adavantage yet...

I guess that this is a message to Caleb :lol:

[David Meek]

As far as basic speaker positioning goes, there are a couple of simple, general rules which have worked well for me. They probably won't make a larger sweet spot, but they do make a good, solid one.

Rule Of Thirds
Rule Of Fifths

The rule of thirds will generally produce a better soundstage than the rule of fifths but it requires more of your room to be used by the speakers and your prime seat. The rule of thirds says to divide your room into three even segments length- and width-wise. Use drafting or non-stick tape to draw the lines between segments on the floor (there will be two east-west lines and two north-south lines). Place the face of your speakers at the two intersection points on one side of the room and your seat between the other two intersections with your head dead-even between them and on the line. This will form an isoscles triangle with the speakers at the base. Then adjust the toe-in to get the soundstage/imaging you want. The one serious drawback to this is that your speakers and chair are well out into the room and that probably won't sit well with the "other half".

If that's the case, the rule of fifths may help. It's the same operation, except that you divide the room into 5 equal pieces along each axis (4 tape lines on each axis) and place the speakers at the intersections closest to the wall on one end and the seat at the middle of the other end of the room on the line closest to that opposite wall. This moves the speakers and seat about 50% (y'all don't get too picky) closer to the walls than the "thirds" position but still gives you a good balanced set-up.

Once you find the spots that work for you, start adding absorptive/dispersive panels at the first reflection points, directly behind the mains and behind your seat. Curtains and plants work well, too.

[jim777]

David, that's a new one! And what about toe-in?

[RebelMan]

David, that's a new one! And what about toe-in?

Actually, it is a pretty well known rule of thumb. I subscribe to the Rule of Fifth's mainly because the Rule of Third's is far less practical. Unless you are someone that only has speakers in the room but how many of us fit into this category?

I know your question was directed to David but my take on toe-in is that there really are no rules, however, there are some guidelines.

Assuming the speakers are properly positioned according to room size, room acoustics and the location of the listener(s) (as described by David), the purpose of adjusting toe is to balance sound-stage focus and image specificity (more toe-in) with spaciousness and immediacy (less toe-in).

Typically brighter sounding speakers will benefit with less toe-in and warmer sounding speakers will benefit with more toe-in. One cannot say precisely how much toe-in is needed since much of this will depend on the environment the speakers live and it will vary with each room.

In general, simply start by aiming the speakers forward at right angles to the listener. Make incremental adjustments (symmetrical for both speakers - this is crucial) by measuring the distances from the rear wall to each of the loudspeaker's rear edges, or other points of reference. Continue making small adjustments until you reach the right balance as described above.

[caleb]

Not even then. When I visit Caleb we both sit in a less than ideal spot, flanking the sweet spot.

So, I haven't heard his system to its best adavantage yet...

Right then, next time you are down, you are in the sweet spot! ! !

Look forward to it.

[BlazeMaster]

not to get off the subject, but how does these rules apply to a HT setup where you have 3 speakers in the front? Same rule but just place the center somewhere between the 2 mains?

[jlee]

not to get off the subject, but how does these rules apply to a HT setup where you have 3 speakers in the front? Same rule but just place the center somewhere between the 2 mains?

Place center so it's the same distance from your ear as the mains. Many people measure to the tweeter, but I actually have found it better to measure to the midrange FST driver.

[Pieter]

Right then, next time you are down, you are in the sweet spot! ! !

Look forward to it.

Round the 15th of September. Will bring you some Tananas to listen to.

[xk8boy]

Stockinv, I have found the Rule Of Thirds or Rule Of Fifths hard to work with - even with a dedicated media room. Though, I would second mrdoggy's advice of forming an equilateral triangle with the speakers and seating position. However, by placing the speakers in an unsuitable environement, i.e. the lounge, you're NOT going to get the best of the best from your speakers. that goes for all of us here. room acoustics effects sound just as much components.

I am not going to prescribe you any rules, but i am going to give you some guidelines that will help you understand your listen environment. Hopefully this will help you find the best compromise for your speakers. So, here goes.

1. stand in the middle of your room and clap your hands. now listen to the sound. repeat until you're familar with that sound. that is the natural sound of your space. you're going to want to put you're speaker there.

2. Imagine where you want to put those speakers and where you're going to sit. try to forming a triangle as much as possible.

3. To determine how far to put a speaker away from a side wall, stand right next to that side wall, but away from any rear walls. Now clap your hands again. You're going to notice a different kind of sound. take a step away from the wall, now clap your hands again. Find the distance away from the wall where the sound sound natural.

4. To find a corner placement, do the above on both walls and where the distances intersect thats where your speaker should be.

The distances above are the minimum distances. I personally I feel that the 802D sound will benefits with some wall reenforcements. So, add about 0.5 to 1 meter to the measurements found above.

As i have said above about room acoustics, your milage will vary.

[karelm]

Hi Stockinv. I have the 802D and a room similar to yours (18 ft wide and 13.5 ft deep). Try this: If possible keep your speakers about 1.5 feet infront of the back wall. Try putting some sound absorbtion material directly behind the speakers and behind your sitting area. I am becoming a big believer the importance of the right accoustic foam in the right places. For example, bass traps, diffusers, absorbtion, etc. Guitar Center has most of what you need so you can buy them relatively cheap (I think it costs $20 per panel). Just see if this helps the sound quality and let me know because I am still working through the same issues as you.

[caleb]

karelm,
I am surprised that you have your 802's so close to the wall.
I found that They needed to be at least 4 to 5 feet away before they sounded good?

[karelm]

Caleb,

The room size and shape also matter in relation to the speakers position. Please describe your room. I'd imagine if you kept your speakers 4 feet away from the wall, your room is quite large? Also how far is the listening area? Are you using accoustic foam? Excuse my ignorance but I believe if you use sound absorbtion behind the speaker, since there is less sound bouncing from the wall directly behind the speaker, isn't that the same general effect of having the speaker farther from the wall? In essence, the impact of the sound waves from the wall is reduced.

Karim

karelm,
I am surprised that you have your 802's so close to the wall.
I found that They needed to be at least 4 to 5 feet away before they sounded good?

[jlee]

Caleb,

The room size and shape also matter in relation to the speakers position. Please describe your room. I'd imagine if you kept your speakers 4 feet away from the wall, your room is quite large? Also how far is the listening area? Are you using accoustic foam? Excuse my ignorance but I believe if you use sound absorbtion behind the speaker, since there is less sound bouncing from the wall directly behind the speaker, isn't that the same general effect of having the speaker farther from the wall? In essence, the impact of the sound waves from the wall is reduced.

Karim

Using foam or sound absorption usually only affects mids and highs. Each speaker will have a resonant frequency and therefore will have a "hump" in the response curve at this freq. By placing it a certain distance from the back wall, part of this hump can be cancelled. I personally have my 804's about 52" from the back wall.

[caleb]

Room size is approx 3 x 6 metres and I have the speakers on the "short" wall.

I had them about two feet away at first and slowly moved them until the bass resonance was at a minimum.

That's when I put the spikes on and settled in that position.