OK B&W Owners Grills ON or OFF and Why

[misterdoggy]

Everyone showed their setups with 90% showing them with the Grills off. The sun in my living room will have an eventual effect of the part of the wood thats hidden behind the grill (fading maybe). Do you have yours off or on and why ?
Do we want to "show off" the material or do we want to protect it.

[RebelMan]

Everyone showed their setups with 90% showing them with the Grills off. The sun in my living room will have an eventual effect of the part of the wood thats hidden behind the grillm(fading maybe). Do you have yours off or on and why ?
Do we want to "show off" the material or do we want to protect it.

B&W speakers look and sound their best when the grills are off. I will often do both (I keep the tweeter grill on all of the time though). If you keep the grills on all or most of the time the veneer under the grill will tend to appear lighter than the rest of the cabinet over time. B&W suggests that when this happens, to remove the grill and the colors will eventually blend. It is natural for real wood veneers to change (to a "warmer") color (under ultraviolate radiation, i.e., the sun) and it is often times desired.

[audioqueso]

With the 600 series, the grill do dampen the sound a lot. With my 805s, it is a VERY slight change. They seemed to have done a better job with the 800s (obviously). But I take pictures with the grills off cause the look freakin' awesome in the nude.

[aphexist]

I have a set of Nautili and I like to leave the grills on. I feel that seeing 9 drivers in front of me (N804 x 2 and HTM1) makes the front of my room look busy and cluttered. I don't like seeing or thinking about equipment when I am watching a movie or listening to music. I also keep all of my equipment on a rack behind the listening area to promote this separation of technology from the experience. With the grills on, the only thing that I see when watching a movie is the projection screen.

It should be noted that the kevlar midrange from B&W is subject to fading if exposed to direct sunlight.

[Brahma]

Cosmetic looks aside, do you guys notice a quantifiable improvement in sound quality?

[RebelMan]

Yes, but as audioqueso said it's slight with the new 800 (D/S) series, but it can be quite noticible with other models and brands.

[Pieter]

Fabric grille OFF - Percieved sound a little more open.
Tweeter grille ON - Dispersion and focus slightly improved. Protect the fragile dome.

[Rags]

I have owned N805, N804, 803S & 803D speakers and never noticed any significant change between having the grills on or off. However I have not tried to remove the tweeter grill - some people reckon that can make a difference.

I however leave the main grill off as the speakers look a lot nicer when the full veneer and drivers are on display.

[misterdoggy]

Why would B&W make grills if not to use them. Or to adjust the sound with them on. I often think that dust and bugs and spiders, and what not could start making a home some where. Moths.... Its not that I have an aversion to little beasts, but they can sneak behind the grill. I don't want to get involved in touching and cleaning things that don't need to be touched otherwise. Dust and dirt. Don't think that light doesn't fade or affect speaker fabrics.

[ti33er]

I'm pretty sure it states somewhere in the B&W Nautilus literature that leaving the tweeter grills on is highly recommended as the tonal balance has been compensated for with the tweeter grills in place – also one runs the risk of damaging the tweeter dust cap without the tweeter grill in place!

I have noticed benefits when exposing the FST/Bass drivers, the 800’s sound a little wider and more articulate. As a test hold a bed sheet/linen (or similar fabric) in front of your mouth, talk to someone through it to see if they can hear a difference - I am inclined to think that this is similar in principal? (it is slight, but it is still a difference IMO)

[aphexist]

I have noticed benefits when exposing the FST/Bass drivers, the 800’s sound a little wider and more articulate. As a test hold a bed sheet/linen (or similar fabric) in front of your mouth, talk to someone through it to see if they can hear a difference - I am inclined to think that this is similar in principal? (it is slight, but it is still a difference IMO)

Similar in principle, but bed sheets are not used for speaker grills. This is designed to be acoustically "transparent" fabric. Of course it is not ideal; I have usually assumed that the difference is negligible in light of the hundred other acoustic issues that reside in my flawed listening room.

Now for the (less than perfect) test. Take both grills off and put on some music. Sit in your sweet spot. Hold one of the grills about two inches from one of your ears and plug the other ear with a soundproof finger of your choice. Make sure the only thing between your ear and the speaker is the grill fabric. Can you hear a difference?

Now try other materials: a piece of cotton fabric, a piece of paper, veal cutlets, miscellaneous vegetables...Can you hear a difference? Everytime you try a new material, after you remove it, come onto this message board and declare, "A VEIL HAS BEEN LIFTED!"

[misterdoggy]

As a test hold a bed sheet/linen (or similar fabric) in front of your mouth, talk to someone through it to see if they can hear a difference - I am inclined to think that this is similar in principal?

I would agree with "aphexist" that bedsheets and grill fabric won't render the same results. Nor holding fabric to ones ear. Aren't speakers "pushing air" and doesn't the grill brake some of that "air push". I would have to think the speaker "testers" listen to the final product with the grills on. IMHO

[Pieter]

It's a matter of degree. The principle may be sound, but the extrapolation is subject to conjecture.

One could be dogmatic; is there an object, of whatever form or substance obscuring, the drivers, even partially? If, "Yes" then the sound will be altered.

To what extent...?

No need to get your knickers in a knot, use them as grille cloth instead, frills on the outside, around the cabinet edges. The translucent ones work best.

[aphexist]

Aren't speakers "pushing air" and doesn't the grill brake some of that "air push".

The drivers are moving their cones to transduce air molecules to create waves of different frequencies and wavelengths. So the speakers aren't so much shooting pressurized air out as they are creating a wave that exists in the space between the cone and your ears. I would assume that there would be some loss in high-frequency levels, but this is not a concern for 800 series owners.

Does this really matter, though? Let your ears decide. If your ears can't decide, which looks better? If neither looks better, it is time to upgrade.

[Rags]

Just tried them again - grills off then on - still no difference !! :

[JetFlyGuy]

The shop I get my gear from is very well known nationally, and their comment to me was that the first thing I should do when I get home is throw the grilles away! The point being that their purpose is purely for protection from curious fingers, and have no acoustical value at all. Truth be told, I can't tell a difference! (803S, and HTM3, BTW) -Josh

[kurtholz]

Hey all

i leave mine off,i have spent several hours going back and forth to try and decide, i do think there is a difference, not huge, kind of like a free tweak to me

of course, i believe in Santa to

Kurt

[martino]

I have no doubts..to the trained and sensitive ear our speaks prob. sound better nude (i love that word)...however i'm not confitent my ears are thet good at this point..I leave mine on because I have a 9 yr old son...and when off the do look a bit industrial

To each his own

carry on gentlemen


Martin

[ti33er]

…each to their own however I still think that I can hear a tiny difference grills on/off so I tend to have mine off most of the time (they are certainly on when the neighbour's 3 year old comes round to watch Monsters Inc)

PS. Bed linen was just an example and yes no doubt it is a denser fabric than acoustic cloth, but my objective was merely to illustrate that something in the path i.e. an obstruction will make a difference, whether be it inconceivably subtle it is still a difference - the FST cover does make the most (still subtle however) diff in my experience.

Paul

[Brahma]

I was curious if there was a difference, thanks for the input guys.

BTW I used to run my previous (non-B&W speakers) without covers because I did notice a slight improvement in dispersion characteristics.

Until a kid came along one day and kindly pushed in my dust caps I changed my mind forever...

[misterdoggy]

I've got dogs, cats, 17 year olds running around playing rough. What about dust ? Its gonna build up and then you have to touch everything and clean it. Also mine is by a doorway with people going in and out. I will stay ZEN and leave mine on.

I had a set of Cabasse the round metal ones and people couldn't resist "feeling' the centers, even gentily. No, definitely ON for me.

[Jesse111]

On or off no difference 803s. Mine are on.

I've had several friends do blind test on this matter. No one, I mean never, was anyone able to decern a sonic difference. I am of the opinion it is strictly cosmetic. But hey, I lift weights and I can lift more if I use a certain kind of manufacturer simply because I like the way they look. So even without any sonic difference, one can simply believe the music sounds better. And if that's the way you feel then that's great. It's all about feeling good. I have found the same situation with cables and even to some degree, amplifiers. I have Classe M400 mono blocks. Do they sound better than Krell? I believe they do so therefore they do to me. Do they really? I don't know and I don't care. It simply depends on which one I happen to own. In a blind test all things being exactly the same. I probabley wouldn't be able to tell a difference.

[emig5m]

Ok I'm a little late to the show, but....

I have a set of Nautili and I like to leave the grills on. I feel that seeing 9 drivers in front of me (N804 x 2 and HTM1) makes the front of my room look busy and cluttered. I don't like seeing or thinking about equipment when I am watching a movie or listening to music. I also keep all of my equipment on a rack behind the listening area to promote this separation of technology from the experience. With the grills on, the only thing that I see when watching a movie is the projection screen.

It should be noted that the kevlar midrange from B&W is subject to fading if exposed to direct sunlight.

This is exactly why I keep my grills on for critical listening. I could notice a little difference with the 600 series 683's (a lot of plastic around the tweeter) but can't say I notice any difference on the 800 series 804S. I actually think it sounds better with the grills on because I'm not being distracted and looking at those bright yellow mids and I'm more focused on the music I want to hear, heh. But when I take pictures of them or just want to "look" at and admire them, then grills off.

[SoundEngine355]

I have the 800D's and I only take the midrange grill off, all the rest stay on.

Reason - looks cool, no sonic benefits.

[leej]

On the CDM’s, 700’s & 800’s, where the tweeter isn’t covered by fabric it's much less affected than CM’s and 600’s. I hate when my tweeter is covered with fabric. If so, I’d take them off. As for the lower end, I'd only take them off when I want that sexy look. Of course, some may want to touch the delicate tweeter, so be very careful, if it's exposed.

[sunshdw]

Over the years I've had B&W I've always left the grills off, plus I think they look better.

[y2kavengeres]

I almost always keep the main grills off. Tweeter grills always on. I like the sound and the look better.

[Hammie]

Grills off... purely for looks.

[scanido]

I keep them off (except tweeter grills), but when hosting parties I always put the grills on! Never know what will happen to those vulnerable drivers!

[sunshdw]

I've had several friends do blind test on this matter. No one, I mean never, was anyone able to decern a sonic difference. I am of the opinion it is strictly cosmetic. But hey, I lift weights and I can lift more if I use a certain kind of manufacturer simply because I like the way they look. So even without any sonic difference, one can simply believe the music sounds better. And if that's the way you feel then that's great. It's all about feeling good. I have found the same situation with cables and even to some degree, amplifiers. I have Classe M400 mono blocks. Do they sound better than Krell? I believe they do so therefore they do to me. Do they really? I don't know and I don't care. It simply depends on which one I happen to own. In a blind test all things being exactly the same. I probabley wouldn't be able to tell a difference.

Agreed
If those with the 800 series think that the sound changes when you take off the tweeter grill, more power to ya and keep telling yourself that!!

[altanpsx]

I like them naked !!!(Of course for the audiophile concerns )

[exntric]

I prefer leaving the grills off, both for cosmetic and sound-improving reasons, but I tend to put them on when I go away for i.e. the weekend or a longer trip to protect the elements from dusting down and whatnot.

[ak77]

dont bother!!

such questions make us sound like women...this is equivalent of "do I look good in blue or black?? oh no...blue makes me look fat so I prefer black!!" :lol:

Just enjoy the music mate. keep the grills on, keep them safe just close your eyes and enjoy...let the ladies worry about trivial things about life. :dancenana:

and this is not a sexist remark!!! please dont get me wrong ladies..if you are reading this thread

[exntric]

Haha, unfortunately you cant call whether thats a sexist remark for yourself, tis how it is perceived by the average female reader that decides ;P

[hanser]

I have the CDM 7 NT and CDM center. I hear a definite difference, it sounds clearer, more open with the grill off. Localization is also a bit better