Results Of Bi-amping N802's

[Jeff]

For the past 5 days I've been bi-amping my N802's with a Proceed Amp 2. I currently own a Proceed amp 3. My speaker wire is Audioquest CV-6 36 volt for the mid and tweets. The lows are provided via Audioquest Crystal. It's a heavy garden hose style 10 guage cable.

My listening music is primarily Jazz with a heavier bass presence for the critical a/b testing. The overall impression was the lower regions are fuller with greater presence. This was not by a great margin. I had to perform many a/b tests to determine this.

The sound stange was slightly larger and perhaps a little more dynamic...and I mean only a little.

My overall impression was there was a slight improvement. My dealer will let me have the Crystal cable and amp for about $675 USD. From what I've heard I will likely return the goods to the dealer. Frankly, I was hoping for a great improvement from a bi-amping experience. I'm thinking the 802's provide such a full bodied sound that big improvements will only come in small portions. The theary of diminshing returns... Has anyone else had this experience?

Thanks, Jeff

[johan]

Hi Jeff,
I read an article in Hifi-choice (Uk mag) about this and the conclusion was that the benefit was lesser the better amp you used. If you allready have an amp up for the task then that's it kinda, after all you wont get more power by biamping. I also have N802's that I used to biamp with two Nad 218's 2 * 200w and those are not in the same league as your Proceed's. But the impresssions when I went from one amp to two was just the same as you described, very small changes. So you'd be better of looking for one amp costing about the same as two of your current amps. I recently replaced my Nad's with a Krell Fpb300cx (3 * 300w) and man was there a change!! I know you can't compare them but it kind of sums up what its all about - quality. Ok, it was 100 watts more but I am sure the difference would be the same if it were 100 watts less.

Are you not happy with your Proceed or were you just trying for fun? I own the Proceed AVP2 and I am very happy with it, it has a truly great 2-channel sound. Just a shame they dont make them anymore. I wouldn't know what to replace it with if it stopped working.

Cheers Johan

[Jeff]

johan, I love my Proceed. The dealer has a demo which is about 5 to 6 yrs old and was willing to sell it to me for $500. This is the same dealer I purchased much of my equipment from. Needless to say, I get favored customer treatment which is nice. Given this is a $2,000 amp I figured, what the heck, I'll give it a try. Especially with it being the same mfr, series and wpc there couldn't be a better match. It's interesting you had a similar experience.

Before the Proceed I had a Rotel RB1080 amp (200wpc). The Proceed bested it.

I figure I'll save my $ more a better pre/pro or dvd player.

Frankly, when I connected the loaner speaker cable (audioquest Crystal) in a true bi-wire configuration several of the attributes of having the additional amp was realized(this was in addition to my CV-6 cable).
Which was interesting. Perhaps there's an additional set of wires in my furture...

[perato]

If you are still using the passive crossover in the speaker you won't get the full benefit of bi-amping which is to use an active crossover. What you can do with bi-amping and passive crossovers is change the volume of each amp to basicaly tone control, perhaps flattening your overall frequency response.

[Jeff]

Perato, in this case I'm using an amp from the same mfr, the same series and the same wcp. In my case the only difference is one amp is 3 channel and the other is 2. For all intensive purposes they are the same amp. Which is largely the reason why I had to give it a try.

I have another two channel amp with more power I could use. However with no output control and different output stages on the amp, IMO it wouldn't be very balanced. Thus I've never tested that combo.

I continue to think the louder you have the sound in a bi-amping situation the greater the difference duel amps with provide, whether you have an active or passive crossover. Although I'd be interested in an active crossover I'm not sure where I could pick on up as a demo. I'll have to give that some thought.

It would be interesting to bring the system outside and see what she'd really do and how well she'd do it.

[georgev]

Frankly, biamping the way you have it right now, is questionable whether or not there will be any sonic benefits.
The whole idea behind bi or triamping, is to drive the different drivers individually with the signal intended for it.
Highs driven by a dedicated power amp being fed high freqs and then going diractly to the high driver, similarly for the low ends and mids.
For this to truly be beneficial, you must have the active crossovers, and then disconnect your speaker crossovers, so that you do not feed signals through them.
The way you are doing it is "passive" as opposed where the real magic is, i.e. "active" biamping.
You would do just as well to have a more powerful amp. without biamping.
Cheers,
George.
Ask your dealer if he has any of the Proceed HPA amps. A far cry from the amp2 and vastly better for your 802's.

[Fife]

I agree with GeorgeV,

Look for a HPA instead of AMP/BPA.

[Jeff]

I would love to try an HPA. But as you know Proceed was closed by it's parent company and by now most dealers have exhausted their inventories.

As an fyi I contacted the Harmond Group to see about repair cost of proceed amps. It's a flat $900 regardless of the problem. :M Mark Levenson, which I would love to own is $1,200 flat fee. Even more for their referance series. I would have to give thumbs down to Harmonds approach to fixing their own product. :nonod:

[georgev]

[QUOTE=Jeff]I would love to try an HPA. But as you know Proceed was closed by it's parent company and by now most dealers have exhausted their inventories.

You do come across them now and again on audiogon, and that too for a very reasonable price compared to the new cost.
Agree with you on the hands down to Harman. One would think that they would look after their customers better after so much money has been shelled out.